D-Day plus 6 weeks. Wife betrayal, long story... .

[James-London]

I do not say that everyone who is unhappy in their relationship goes off an cheats. I am saying that being unhappy is an important factor for those who go on to cheat. Many other people would not cheat even if they were unhappy.

 

It is also true what people say about the rewriting of history and perceptions of their partner when they meet an affair partner. It is amazing how people can reevaluate their perceptions of their BS to justify/explain their feelings/actions with an affair partner.

 

However, this rewriting of history will just be harder if the relationship was strong, secure and happy compared to if it was not. That's all I'm saying here.

 

I think if someone is unhappy in their relationship they are more likely to fall for another person. Equally, if they do fall for another person, they are going to devalue the original relationship. I think these two things interact.... its not like people evaluate the two relationships objectively and independently.

 

 

 

LOL. Im opinion you shouldn't be critiquing someone you haven't even read.

This whole "anti-experts" doesn't wash with me either. No one said I "bought" into Perel, my point was to say that it doesn't make sense to me that a WS will throw someone under the bus to save a marriage if the marriage were not worth saving and that was why they stepped out to begin with. It seems to me this is the BS perspective. And that just won't help much.

 

First of all, it's not true that people would "just leave" their marriages, many people cheat because they don't have the guts to leave a marriage, dead or not, for another lover or not. There is a social stigma attached to staying married the you seem to discredit. And I think you underestimate it's value on the decision to cheat.

 

Some people simply do not leave their marriage until they are sure they HAVE a proper replacement lined up ("a better cow" in terms of the classic film about why men move from woman to younger woman to even younger woman). Some just refuse to ever want to be alone (either physically - they need to be in a space with someone, or emotionally, they need to "be in love with someone")

 

Not sure either why anyone would only take the musings of people here in LS over what you think are confused "experts", given that the majority of people here, and in this thread a angry BS's: many of whom clearly have a DEAL BREAKER mentality about affairs, experienced one, DUMPED their WS, and now are in here singing the song of how impossible reconciliation is for a BS. Based on what? Personal experience? How many affairs should someone in LS have before they really are an expert in handing out not only advice, but talking with such confidence about what is going on in the head of a WS of an anonymous poster when they themselves didn't even care to figure out what was going on in the head of their OWN WS?

 

Why so fast to dismiss expert advice? Especially advice you haven't read?

 

Why shouldn't someone who works in this field, who is eager to understand what motivates infidelity at all levels, and what changes in marriages, be automatically dismissed for being an "expert" over what are clearly armchair critics?

 

Then why pray tell doesn't EVERY BS then go on to cheat on their WS?

 

Because they are most definitely not happy/satisfied with their WS!!

 

Many affairs are about boundary crossing. Not recognizing the road/path one is on. Often a WS has to rewrite history to give themselves (internal) permission to continue down that path and keep a positive view of THEMSELVES.

 

The most harmful lies are the ones we tell ourselves.

[goodyblue]

BetrayedandHurting,

 

 

I know you are here for advice, but please, don't let anyone on an internet forum tell you what to do. Take what works for you and forget the rest.

 

I'm sorry you're going through this, but only you can decide what is best for you.

 

People (on this forum especially) think they have all the answers, and most follow a particular philosophy. See a counselor. Figure things out for you. Don't get rid of someone just because people on a forum tell you to.

 

Hang in there.

 

xx

Edited August 19, 2014 by goodyblue

[fellini]

I do not say that everyone who is unhappy in their relationship goes off an cheats. I am saying that being unhappy is an important factor for those who go on to cheat. Many other people would not cheat even if they were unhappy.

 

It is also true what people say about the rewriting of history and perceptions of their partner when they meet an affair partner. It is amazing how people can reevaluate their perceptions of their BS to justify/explain their feelings/actions with an affair partner.

 

However, this rewriting of history will just be harder if the relationship was strong, secure and happy compared to if it was not. That's all I'm saying here.

 

I think if someone is unhappy in their relationship they are more likely to fall for another person. Equally, if they do fall for another person, they are going to devalue the original relationship. I think these two things interact.... its not like people evaluate the two relationships objectively and independently.

 

Now Im not following you, you said several things VERY clearly:

 

a person who is in a completely happy and fulfilled romantic relationship is really not likely to cheat

Your argument would be that there is something wrong with them internally. It just sounds like a soundbite to me.

being unhappy with yourself can play a role. but its mostly a lack of satisfaction with the partner.

if they are unhappy with themselves then it is less likely that opportunities will arrive

 

I think you are switching back and forth too much here. People cheat if they are unhappy with their relationship, not just "unhappy", but being unhappy is an important factor? On the one hand if they are unhappy opportunities won't arise, but on the other hand you say now that if they are unhappy they are more likely to fall for another person? You don't see your own internal contradictions?

 

Why do you choose to emphasis that happiness in a relationship is necessarily not INTERNAL anyhow? Happiness is entirely subjective.

 

Why cannot someone be unhappy, because they are unhappy with their choice of partner, or unhappy because their marriage lacks energy, or unhappy because they don't get recognition in their job? What does it matter? Happiness is an internal issue, not external. I might be really unhappy about something to do with my S, but my spouse is in heaven. Happiness in a marriage is just another place where people have expectations FOR THEMSELVES and when those expectations are not met, they begin to question. Like anything.

 

You have said that being unhappy is an important factor, but when I say it, you say it sounds like a soundbite... whatever that is supposed to mean as a value.

 

That people cheat because they believe themselves to be unhappy in a marriage is not being disputed.

 

You claimed that people in happy marriages are not going to cheat, and most of us here think you are being rather naive. It is, in fact, this claim of HAPPILY EVER AFTER that is causing some of the worst trauma in marriages: One spouse is convinced their marriage is pretty damned good, all things considered, and yet they find out that their lover has been screwing a co-worker for 2 years. Understand that this is a rather FREQUENT OCCURENCE and that no amount of soul searching for a childhood trauma or a disappearing daddy is going to take away from the fact that many people believe the affair occurred in a healthy marriage.

 

And, frankly, this is what many authors confirm. It is already well declared to be a myth that affairs do not happen in good marriages. And a good marriage is NOT an antidote to infidelity.

 

My marriage was good. In spite of that, I started feeling even better about my world and I literally improved my communication and interactions with my SO. She asked me - before she started sleeping with her AP, why we were no longer arguing about anything, and I told her, "because you asked me to stop". Later, we had an issue, and I reacted badly, and she said, "you shouldn't react that way in public" and I shocked her by saying, you're right, it won't happen again. And a few weeks later we had a blissful anniversary dinner. It felt like our honeymoon. Two days later she agreed to sleep with her colleague. When I asked her about those episodes where it was clear our marriage was better than it had ever been she said, "I know. When you said those things to me my first thought was disappointment because I knew then I had nothing to blame you for, for cheating." She was counting on my being her ogre.

 

And still she went on in her pursuit to risk EVERYTHING for those feelings she so desperately thought she needed. It is all about internal rationalizations. It does not have to have anything to do with the marriage, in many cases, because the decision to CHEAT comes FIRST, and the explanation comes ON DDAY.

Edited August 19, 2014 by fellini

[2sunny]

What exactly are the actions the counselor is having her do to change herself?

 

What evidence do you have that proves she won't cheat again?

[Buckeye2]

My marriage was good. In spite of that, I started feeling even better about my world and I literally improved my communication and interactions with my SO. She asked me - before she started sleeping with her AP, why we were no longer arguing about anything, and I told her, "because you asked me to stop". Later, we had an issue, and I reacted badly, and she said, "you shouldn't react that way in public" and I shocked her by saying, you're right, it won't happen again.

 

And a few weeks later we had a blissful anniversary dinner. It felt like our honeymoon. Two days later she agreed to sleep with her colleague.

 

When I asked her about those episodes where it was clear our marriage was better than it had ever been she said, "I know. When you said those things to me my first thought was disappointment because I knew then I had nothing to blame you for, for cheating." She was counting on my being her ogre.

 

And still she went on in her pursuit to risk EVERYTHING for those feelings she so desperately thought she needed. It is all about internal rationalizations. It does not have to have anything to do with the marriage, in many cases, because the decision to CHEAT comes FIRST, and the explanation comes ON DDAY.

 

Infidelity is like a nuclear attack. It’s so devastating that after D day both the BS and WS want to think there were reasons for it. There had to be.

 

What’s hard to get your head around is that SOMETIMES it was just fun for the WS. Before they were caught it was free so it was certainly worth it.

 

Some people are just better at compartmentalization. They can buy a new car they can’t afford and thoroughly enjoy diving it never once thing about the repo man.

 

When they’re confronted with the fact that they are so far in debt that they’re going to lose their house (their marriage) they are truly remorseful and wish they could go back in time and not buy the car.

 

The following is an extreme example of extreme compartmentalization.

 

I know of a woman who very much loved her husband and was proud to be his wife. She had a young man on the side that she considered sweet but stupid. She could never have a meaningful conversation with him.

 

She only used her landline at work to contact the OM on his landline at his work. The only reason she ever talked to him was to arrange a time to meet at a hotel about once a month.

 

She paid cash for the hotel and didn’t join any hotel points program. She used the fact that she was so careful as proof she cared greatly about her husband.

 

Whenever she had a brief pang of guild she was just extra nice to her husband.

 

It was like her husband was her primary care physician and the OM was her cardiologist taking care of one special need.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Buckeye2

[drifter777]

Seems like OP is gone. I hope he posts how things turned out. I don't think serial cheaters can change - its who they are - but maybe he'll be lucky or satisfied not knowing about her affairs.

[James-London]

Fellini - I saw you wrote some long replies here. I'm afraid I only read the first line or two and then my attention became sidetracked. I'm not sure if you spent some time writing all that; and I'm sorry if you did.

 

I did however notice at the top of your post that you sought to belittle my infidelity experience just because it was a relationship of 1 year and there were no kids involved. You have no right to pass judgement on what this experience has done to me as you don't know me or my background. People in much longer and established relationship can have the same experience as me and be in much less pain over it.

 

I randomly came back to LS a few days ago just to tell people about my life 1 year after my D-day. It was one of the worst experiences of my life so far and I wanted to put something back to the LS community that was really there for me at my crisis point exactly 1 year ago. Probably also it was cathartic for me, as I'm probably still not 100% over this, even 1 year on... I only planned to briefly reply to OP as I was struck by the similarities between his experience and mine. Perhaps I have misunderstood some of Fellini's points (although I don't believe I have), but arguing with me will really be a fruitless exercise.

 

I can see that this is not the right forum for me now as I'm not really looking to vent or find answers anymore. But I do respect that other people still need that.... It does get better guys, even if it doesn't feel like it will right now.... When all of you are in a better place, I really hope you will all come back and post about how you got through your experience, and help other people under theirs (especially you Fellini!). I wish everyone a speedy recovery.

 

OP - I hope things settle down for you and find the way forward that works for you.

 

Best,

 

James.

[fellini]

I did however notice at the top of your post that you sought to belittle my infidelity experience just because it was a relationship of 1 year and there were no kids involved. You have no right to pass judgement on what this experience has done to me as you don't know me or my background. People in much longer and established relationship can have the same experience as me and be in much less pain over it.

 

Im sorry you feel that way about my post James-L but please, read it again within the context in which it was written, and you will see that my words have nothing to do with pain, yours, or otherwise:

 

Maybe JL, it's because you were cheated on by a

GF

and not married 15-20-30 years or even 2 to the same person. With kids.

Absolutely you were cheated on

,

and absolutely you know something about infidelity

. But

this is not the same as what people are going through

who were married, GREW WITH their marriage partner, and then one day discovered things were not what they seemed. Not by a long shot.

 

People in their honeymoon phase spend their time gushing

, not those who are past it.

 

I was discussing the difference between losing a girlfriend and losing a life partner. But Im not discussing the pain. Im discussing how "the gushing happiness" that one feels when one has a girlfriend in the first few years is not anything like the mature and deep love and commitment that one has being married to the same person for 15 years, with kids. I think I fairly elaborated that all I am talking about is the differences between two kinds of love, that initial phase which is gives us the a similar high as cocaine verses the high given to us from heroine. When a husband finds out that his life partner has been cheating on him for 2 years during his 5, 10, 15 year good marriage, it is a completely different experience than when a short term girlfriend tells you it's over. Happiness in the both those situations are being fed different chemicals from the brain, so your discussion of happiness cannot include how those of us who are Betrayed SPOUSES feel.

 

I am not going to quantify pain. Nor did I intend to.

 

But losing girlfriend is only the same as losing a wife in terms of "she is gone". You cannot successfully use the experience of losing a girlfriend to understand the dynamics of losing a woman who has become your wife, the mother of your kids, and extension of your family, and with whom you have been living a "blind trust" so a significant number of years: THIS SITUATION REWIRES US. BOTH MEN AND WOMEN. Again, it's not about the pain from betrayal Im speaking, it's about everything else that comes crashing down around you that has been built up slowly over time within the context of the marriage, things that do not occur during the initial periods of developing a relationship, even if she has moved in.

 

Again Im sorry you took it to mean I didn't think your pain was as real as anyone else's. I know all about pain from losing a GF, I lost my first "true love" to her Yoga teacher at the age of 23. We were supposed to get married. Next thing I know. She is not there. I know that pain. It's real for sure.

Edited August 20, 2014 by fellini

[betrayedandhurting]

I just wanted to let everyone know I'm still here. I've been working but reading all your posts. I know this thread was closed and I contacted the mods and made another thread voicing my disappointment that others fighting on theories shutdown the thread that spilled out my disaster and I was getting help from... I was very happy to see today it was reopened. I'll post more on what is going on shortly. Thanks to all of you.

[betrayedandhurting]

I contacted the other man's wife. He evidently confessed some reduced version of what really happened to his wife in the weeks after he knew I discovered the affair. She had not heard the details of what happened and I informed her of the timeline, locations and basic way they concealed the affair. She appreciated me contacting her and telling her the truth but took me up on the offer to break further contact because she "wants to put this behind her." I feel such a sense of relief she knows and knows the closest thing I know to truth, it's like a weight off my chest. It's not my place to judge or hope how she handled this info.

 

As for me I can say I will attempt a R. My wife is doing everything so right that it remains hard to believe such a person could have done this in the first place. My anger lost all control late last week to the point I was having trouble recognizing myself in the mirror, it's what brought me to all of you. I don't know what the future for me holds, maybe I catch her cheating again and divorce or even in a few months or a year I decide I can't live with the images and reminders of what she did and decide to leave... but no matter the future I will say I tried my best and had my head held high even if I get hurt more. The ground rules are there, no more mistakes .... ever. In the meanwhile we are spending time together and trying to find the love that started when we were just kids.

Edited August 21, 2014 by betrayedandhurting

[2sunny]

It's good you have a plan and a boundary for moving forward.

 

Have you been tested for diseases yet? And have you two started counseling?

[Buckeye2]

You need to do what is best for you and your kids.

 

 

I think your wife is sexually submissive and has been seeking out men over the years that would give that to her.

 

 

You said that you couldn’t understand how she could turn on a dime and do all the right things so completely once she was caught.

 

 

Well now she’s being submissive to you and probably enjoys it.

 

 

The best way to keep herfaithful is to give her what she needs at home. Don’t forgive her too easily and treat her like the bad girl she is.

 

 

You might want to try spanking her and see how she responds.

[fellini]

I contacted the other man's wife. He evidently confessed some reduced version of what really happened to his wife in the weeks after he knew I discovered the affair. She had not heard the details of what happened and I informed her of the timeline, locations and basic way they concealed the affair. She appreciated me contacting her and telling her the truth but took me up on the offer to break further contact because she "wants to put this behind her." I feel such a sense of relief she knows and knows the closest thing I know to truth, it's like a weight off my chest. It's not my place to judge or hope how she handled this info.

 

As for me I can say I will attempt a R. My wife is doing everything so right that it remains hard to believe such a person could have done this in the first place. My anger lost all control late last week to the point I was having trouble recognizing myself in the mirror, it's what brought me to all of you. I don't know what the future for me holds, maybe I catch her cheating again and divorce or even in a few months or a year I decide I can't live with the images and reminders of what she did and decide to leave... but no matter the future I will say I tried my best and had my head held high even if I get hurt more. The ground rules are there, no more mistakes .... ever. In the meanwhile we are spending time together and trying to find the love that started when we were just kids.

 

Excellent. Just a last few observations from my own experience - maybe you will pass through this, maybe not. Not going to create a timeline of my recovery so here are things to watch for and what happened going through them. KEY: Do NOT confuse RECOVERY with RECONCILIATION.

 

1. Somewhere past month 8 I could no longer say "I love you, (too)" even as a automatic response. This did not mean that it was over! I just felt that those words weighed heavily on me and they didnt come out easily. This continues to happen even now (18 months post DDAY. I don't think the number of months matters.

 

2. There was a strong, very strong phase during recovery when I wanted absolutely to leave. It was not based on something that occured directly, it was a massive sadness that wanted me out the door. This was something that went on for about 7-10 days. Some days stronger than others. Some not at all, so I didn't "listen" to it.

 

3. Lies, lies and more lies. My WS got so caught up in her version of what happened, that she thought I had finished with the "interrogations" and that some of her omissions were acceptable. 9 months into DDAY I had a feeling something wasn't up, and I asked more, asked slightly different questions, etc. Finally it came out. Im sure there are still some lies. I dont think anyone gets the "truth" because the truth is not a thing, it's a fuzzy and fluid and forever incomplete.

 

I learned that making an ultimatum of "no more lies" just simply did not work. There are some truths that even a WS is not going to divulge unless they absolutely have too. There are not necessarily sordid detail lies, as I have said, they are little details that mean more to the WS than to the BS because they embrace a view of themselves that is more indignant to the WS than they are to the BS.

 

4. As I have said way above, because our reconciliation has shifted to what is not right in her, I am now having to deal with and consider the implications that she is a narcissist, ni, a hopeless narcissist. Realizing now that the infidelity was only the iceberg, that deeper down she doesn't have empathy, is incapable of not spinning ANYTHING and EVERYTHING to be about HER.

 

Knowing this, there is a danger that the marriage will once again take a back seat on her "narcissistic supply", and she will once again engage in boundary crossing in order to get the "fix" she so desperately needs in order to "feel good about herself", to feel the power, and the control over other people.

As I said, this will probably be the reason for leaving the marriage, not the previous infidelity, the impossibility of curing a narcissist who refuses to understand the problem. And that narcissists are incredible liars who can give academy award performances in "remorse on demand".

 

5. I went through MONTHS of sea-sawing stay/go stay/go stay/go. This was really hard to deal with. I noticed huge relief when I finally made a concrete decision. So when your mind starts to create doubts, looking at options, RESOLVE THOSE QUICKLY or they will EAT YOU ALIVE!

 

6. Anniversary DDAY.

Wow. I went through 3 months of the worst phase of recover. The thing is the details of my WS's affair meant that our own anniversary (Feb - just after valentines day) was contaminated (she had texted her confidant friend that she was thinking to go PA). Her Birthday (two weeks later) spent with the AP, and finally, the whole month of April (all the meetups for sex occurred in that month). So I had this 3 months of MASSIVE triggers culminating in DDAY. I was frankly really relieved to get past April 26th. But I was horrible to live with. So don't be surprised if all the stuff you are working through and putting behind returns suddenly to the forefront. She is going to have to endure some serious crap coming out of your mouth!

 

7. Make sure that the entire process of recovery is not only about YOU. Yes you are hurting, and so is she hurting watching your hurt. BUT the WS MUST also pass through a period of recovery from her affair, not from getting caught. IF this is not done, if she does not work on her sh-t that is NOT about you, she could, as my WS did, compartamentalise the affair and leave it in a closed box while she focusses all her energy on your pain. The whole time I was thinking this is her coming back into the marriage, which of course, it was, but he was still "in there", and in month 7 she began to open that lid just a little bit to see what was inside, and risked everything because it brought back emotions which she had not dealt with and confused her. She couldn't say if they were real, "fond memories", merely triggers (yes, a WS also has triggers and intrusions/mind movies) or her heart telling her she gave up her happiness in a panic to save her marriage. For this we went into a structured separation in order for her to deal with what was in her head. It was not a separation for her to go and visit the AP so that she could "check out her emotions". In your case you are lucky, because the AP of your WS is married and is probably going through the same sh-t as your WS. But my WS chose a single available and very needy man who really really wanted to take her from us for himself. Still does over a year later. He still thinks of himself as victim.

 

8. There are two kinds of good days to watch for to enjoy, and to try to repeat and hold onto: The good days when you look at your wife and are happy with your decision to stay. And, probably more importantly, the good days when you feel good about yourself again, when you can say I am glad to be me. Never in my life have I ever had to think about these things. Now that I AM a BS, it's about the only thing I have to look forward to. Feeling good again.

 

So I am saying there are still going to be some moments tempting you to leave. And you can always do that. But some of them are psychological. Try to continue to persevere when that is the case. Some will be real external causes. Then you will have to make a real decision.

 

Best of luck with your journey.

Edited August 21, 2014 by fellini

[betrayedandhurting]

Thanks again everyone. My wife is in weekly IC and we have been to joint MC a few times. So far joint MC sessions haven't gone great mainly because my anger of the first month ends up with me ranting the hour and everyone focuses on me rather than "us" or the marriage. I see that and hopefully when we do joint MC we can look at the state of our marriage aside from the affair. It isn't that I blame myself or want to avoid dealing with the affair so much as I think there are genuine issues in our marriage that are being and should be addressed.

 

It's so darn weird. As I have said my wife has been textbook perfect in her response to my discovery almost unlike anyone else's story here. Instant NC, quit the job, allows unbelievable and sometimes inappropriate levels of my anger to spill out at her without complaint or attempt at shifting blame, answers questions without complaint (after trickle truth of the first 24 hrs). Her remorse and sadness seems very, very real and isn't letting up 7 weeks into this and she makes statement after statement of regret over the pain she caused and the actions themselves. The therapist and my wife believe that much of this stems from self-esteem issues and that our marriage became so focused on our children and day to day lives that we ignored our needs as a couple and when another man offered those "relationship emotions" that had gone from our marriage my wife's preexisting weaknesses made it difficult to say no. Her lack of boundaries around men (she has never been a flirt or the life of a party but grew up being the known guy's girl in terms of many platonic male friendships) allows this to start and then it goes to a destructive place.

 

I get ALL this. I even see it. I totally could see myself being happy again in a day to day life with my wife and kids and I am genuinely excited to reconnect to my wife as a couple instead of kid raising partners with sex benefits. All this said my biggest problems remain dealing with the still unreal knowledge of just what has happened. Sometimes I stare at her across the table and just ask myself "this couldn't have really happened, this is a big joke right?" It seems incompatible that the level of caring and love coming from her towards me right now is possible considering she came off a 3 year affair with another man. I honestly don't believe this is a sign of a calculating wife trying to save her meal ticket so much as a sign of a very damaged woman who has sides to her that could be very dangerous moving forward. I don't know how I ever get trust back and the feeling of her being my "special" thing. She gave it all away. This is the hardest and saddest thing.

 

For now I am going to try and save my life. I love her and for the sake of the kids will try to give this the fair try it needs and time. I repeat it everyday, there will NEVER be another chance. Any mistake, any secret... not just a PA and I will walk without a second thought... today, tomorrow, forever. I told her I may not catch her on any particular try but she has to know that at some point I *will* catch her so she should know that the moment she betrays our marriage again she needs to tell herself that her marriage has ended.

 

We will see. Off into the unknown with a stranger I've apparently known for 24 years.

Edited August 21, 2014 by betrayedandhurting

[oldshirt]

 

It's so darn weird. As I have said my wife has been textbook perfect in her response to my discovery almost unlike anyone else's story here. Instant NC, quit the job, allows unbelievable and sometimes inappropriate levels of my anger to spill out at her without complaint or attempt at shifting blame, answers questions without complaint

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sometimes I stare at her across the table and just ask myself "this couldn't have really happened, this is a big joke right?" It seems incompatible that the level of caring and love coming from her towards me right now is possible considering she came off a 3 year affair with another man. I honestly don't believe this is a sign of a calculating wife trying to save her meal ticket so much as a sign of a very damaged woman who has sides to her that could be very dangerous moving forward.

 

 

.

 

 

 

The boxer Muhammad Ali would cover up his head and let the other fighter beat the living gashnockers out of him for the vast majority of the match. It would always look like he was well on his way to getting his @$$ kicked but it was a calculated strategy. He would let the other guy wear himself out and be lulled into thinking he was going to come out on top.

 

 

But by the final rounds the other guy was wore out and couldn't keep his arms up enough to defend himself and Ali would flip a switch inside himself and he would come back with a hail a blows and knock out his opponent in the final round.

 

 

Myself and some other posters believe your wife is using this strategy too. She is taking a beating and not doing anything to fight back. She is lulling you and the counselor into thinking that she is whipped and doesn't have any fight in her. She is making you question how she could do something like that. she is making you question how you could walk away from someone so remorseful and someone so cooperative and willing to stay and work on the issues. She is using the strategy of taking the beating until the fight is out of you.

 

 

Here is the problem with her acting like the perfect remorseful wife, she is not addressing her issues and she is not addressing what lead to a THREE YEAR affair.

 

 

While she is taking the beating and accepting all your anger and indignation, she is not fighting back. She is not addressing the issues.

 

 

This may seem kind of counterintuitive but she has had 2 affairs that we know of, one was a full-on sexual affair with regular meetings that went on for a couple years. That means she HAS to have feelings for him. She HAS to have reservations and confusions about whether she wants to remain with you or not. She HAS to have frustrations and dissatisfactions and complaints in the marriage. She HAS to have some feelings of wanting out of the marriage and explore some other freedoms and other options.

 

 

She is not addressing any of those things. She is hunkered down in the corner between the ropes with her hands covering her head and taking the beating.

 

 

And like Muhammad Ali, at some point down the road when you have exhausted all of your strength and energy and you have no more fight left in you, she is going to suddenly stand up and deliver the knockout blow.

 

 

Someone who goes out with the girls from the office and has too much to drink and gets a little too carried away and has a little groping and kissy kissy session with some hunky dude in the hallway to the bathroom at the bar may be filled with shock and regret over their actions and may completely roll over and act all devastated and beside themselves with remorse and not have anything more to say other than apologize and try to get back to normal life....

 

 

..but someone who was in an ongoing, multiyear affair and meeting their AP in their own home and in the office and God knows where else, has many layers of issues and discontents and will invariably be confused and undecided on where they want to go with things.

 

 

This is a strategy. This is part of a plan. This is a method being used to ride out the initial storm and make it through the initial barrage. The counter attack is coming and she has had it planned and has been working on it a lot longer than you have.

[Georgia2014]

I’ve been following many of the online forums for victims of infidelity for about 6 weeks now but I thought I’d finally post my story, seek advice, and see if anyone has a story of hope for someone in my situation.

 

I have known my wife for 24 years, since we were 14. We moved on from good friends and began dating when we were 19 and married after both of us completed our college degrees at just age 24. Both of us come from stable two parent homes and my wife is described by everyone including me as being a loving, stable as rock friend and lover who you would consider a bedrock of ethical and moral strength.

 

For the first 5 years of marriage everything was beyond wonderful. We both worked full time in fulfilling careers, mine in the travel industry which took me on the road 2 to 3 nights a week. It didn’t matter because we traveled the world and enjoyed our time together every moment we could. When our first child, a daughter, came along we were overjoyed. My wife went part-time and we reveled in our child but things did change. Our focus was on our kid and less on us. It seemed natural because we were both so in love with her but for me it also felt a bit sad since of course there was less time for us than before. We had very little support from family to lean on for a variety of reasons and neither of us wanted to use babysitters etc. so our life became our little family, 100% of the time. My wife and I never stopped talking, we told each other we loved each other daily, still were sleeping together several times a week (but it did get routine) and spent hours every night talking about our day and our little girl, but not so much us. After about 7 years of marriage (2 years after my daughter was born) we both decided to try for another child but then one night I accidentally saw my wife had left open a web browser of her email and there was a very mildly flirty email from a colleague at her work commenting on how sad he was to see her walk away from the room they were in a work but “the view was good”. I was disturbed and so looked for more emails and found exactly one, one in which my wife told him the time it was “safe” for him to call when I would be out of town on work. I then went to our cellphone bills and saw indeed for about 2 months she was calling this guy several times a week, usually on her way to work in the morning, but sometimes at night when I was away. I immediately confronted her and she confessed immediately to an inappropriate close friend relationship to this man and said they confided in each other their concerns/troubles etc. and she knew I wouldn’t like it so she concealed it. I pushed more and she admitted that she knew he was attracted to her and had once tried to kiss her but that she never went there but liked the attention and it made her feel good to have someone else “like” her. Her “concerns” were basically feeling overwhelmed with a 2 year-old and feeling unattractive and getting older (my wife is beautiful and super-fit.) I briefly contacted the man and told him never to speak to my wife again (he was unhappily married with kids) and he readily agreed. I left for a day in anger and when I got home she was on her knees begging. She immediately quit her job without even going back and never contacted the man again and believe me I was looking. Within a month I viewed what happened as a “close call” that was totally out of character with the woman I loved and reasoned nothing else happened as simply my wife had no time for anything worse, she literally was never alone without our child except at work. Our marriage seemed to go back to a comfortable and loving normal.

 

A year later we welcomed our second child, our son. Again we were overjoyed. My wife had already found a similar new job but now worked even less, 2 days a week, just 16 hours a week. It didn’t matter because my career (which forever takes me on the road 3-4 days a week but leaves me off the other 3-4 days) was flourishing and I was making great money. We built a beautiful new and huge home from scratch and went about raising our family. My wife and I remained happy and close taking vacation after vacation with our children and attending to their every need. Private school, religious based education, sports you name it all continued for the next 6 1/2 years and I was happy in my marriage. My wife still fell asleep in my arms every night, had her every request met, and we still talked for hours each day about our days and mostly about the kids. I still felt like we lacked quality couple time and in the last 9 years since our first child was born we only “got away” for a night from the children perhaps 5-6 times (including one 4 day stint for our 10 year anniversary) which made me a bit sad but I always just felt it was our circumstance and the nature of the “phase” of our life. My wife in recent years did seem to getting more distant from me, in particular when I was on the road, seldom having much to say to me on our phone calls etc. and often acting passive aggressive towards me for small injustices she felt I had caused such as failing to clean up a room while she was at work, or if I failed to help her with the kids bath-time one night but mind you I have always contributed majorly to the family, worked my ASSOFF on the road to provide for my families every need and was the ultimate homebody running straight to my wife and kids at all times sacrificing friends and hobbies. During these years we still were having sex twice a week (she instigated 50% of the time, always seemed satisfied and never rejected me even once) but it was in hindsight still a bit too routine as seen by the occasional more passionate night.

 

All this leads me to 6 1/2 weeks ago when my life ended. Nearly 14 years into our marriage I tried to contact my wife while I was at work and had a schedule change. I was unable to reach her and when I used “find my friends” on my iPhone to look it said her location was unavailable. I couldn’t reach her for 4 hours. Finally she “reappeared” and told me she had dropped the kids off at her mother’s and had gone shopping. All those fears from 7 years ago came back. When I got home I checked the phone bill and found the same number over and over for as far back as records go. The calls were always when I was on the road or when I was home and having gone for a run. Usually about 2-4 a week, 5-20 minutes a shot. No text messages I could find by iMessages leaves no records. My wife locks her phone with the same password as mine and I searched it and found no evidence of anything but no evidence of a contact associated with the number she was calling. I paid to get who the phone belonged to and found it was a male colleague of hers and I prayed I was wrong but checking Facebook I discovered he was her “friend” but his wife (of course he was married with 4 kids) was not. Some more searching turned up a single message from 8 months back that was from my wife to him saying “please remember to delete all your calls and emails, no messages pls, I’m paranoid.”

 

That was enough for me so I confronted her and she briefly tried to imply it was a “inappropriate” friendship again but I called bull**** on that and left. In text messages over the next few hours she admited she was sleeping with the guy when I was gone, was completely sorry, would break it off instantly, quit her job and do whatever else I asked of her etc. She confessed it was for a year and they only slept together 3 times but had grown to be “good friends” but neither ever intended to leave their spouses, just it felt good to “be wanted.” She never blamed me but implied she often overwhelmed with stress from her job, all the school groups and voluntarism she took on, and slights she knew were not significant but left her feeling sad from our relationship. She said his pursuit made her feel “wanted and pursued” and it wasn’t about the sex but the feeling of being told she was “pretty/beautiful and having her feelings on stuff she didn’t talk to me about being validated.” I was beside myself with anger, rage, humiliation and sadly had to go one a work training event that would take me away from home much of the next month (with some visits back, the first such event in 10 years). Before leaving I called the man and texted him and he repeatedly apologized and said he loves his family more than anything and will never, ever contact my wife again. I told her I wouldn’t make any decisions until I was done with training but again she quit her job without going back, swore to no-contact, begged for individual and joint consoling and any other demand I placed on her. I left but of course obsessed and looked for more information. I discovered her lies when I realized I misread the message from Facebook which wasn’t from 8 months prior, but TWENTY months prior. I confronted her again and said if I got one more lie it would be over forever and she admitted the friendship began in the fall of 2011 and the physical affair in early 2012. So THREE years total, the physical was 2 1/2. It seems to jive with some other info I found. As for the sex it was about once a week or 3 times total a month with periods she said it would go 2-3 weeks without. During these years I cared for her dying father in my home, supported her in a breast cancer scare, went on countless vacations and shared a “happy” marriage. The affair was nearly all physical, they met in only 3 locations, his office, a car garage he owns at a race track that has a living space, or to my disgust my own home. She continues to deny anything happened in our bed but that a couch and area in my basement was defiled. She wore her wedding ring during the affair and in her mind “compartmentalized” the affair and tried not to consider the implications on our children or me of getting caught. To her it was like a drug being desired and the risk of the affair was part of the attraction. They never shared cards, gifts, never spoke of leaving spouses, never said they loved each other and never went a single time anywhere in public on a “date” etc. It was a “having your cake and eating it too” relationship. She claims it wasn’t even “good” sex (yeah right) but more the feeling of being desired like that created something she couldn’t resist.

 

She again quit her job without going back. She cut off all contact with the man. She dropped every single colleague she ever had from Facebook, opened all her accounts to me fully. She began buying book after book on affairs, went to consoling weekly the last month and a half and had me go 3 times with her. She replaced our entire bedroom set, the offending couch, took off her wedding bands and has begun wearing a simple one she didn’t wear during the affair, threw out every single pair of underwear and bras etc. she owns and replaced them with new and has written me daily missives on her love for me and the children, growing old together, never betraying me again etc. She never blames me for anything, accepts my un-real rage for hours on end without complaint, has shown sudden interest my job and attention to me when I’m gone or home. She plans on staying as a stay at home mother from now on and “devoting myself to you and the children until I die.” She has made an effort to create for the first time in nearly a decade weekly “date nights” with me using babysitters and family including nights away. She is throwing herself on me for sex and to my enjoyment (and simultaneous disgust and humiliation) it has become red hot for the first time ages going for hours on end non-stop as we never sleep. Every single thing she can do right after an affair she has done, it is almost TOO perfect if you know what I mean. No confusion, no hesistance to commit to me etc. just an instant “fix.” She feels like the core of her “weakness” is that since childhood she has sought out affirmation she is “good” and so overloads herself at work, as a mother, as a wife and gets depressed but has hidden it for years on end and it resulted in her creating a double life where she sickly felt she wasn’t hurting anyone but fulfilling her emotional void but having some validate her as being desired. She seems deeply remorseful not just for my pain but for the act and says over and over she wishes she could take it back.

 

My rage and anger hasn’t let up at all. I visited a lawyer to discuss what divorce would look like for me. It would be very, very bad finically for me and everything I built for 15 years would be lost. Millions. I can’t imagine NOT being able to see my children, the lights of my life, anytime I want to... that is a nightmare to imagine. But most importantly I can’t imagine living without my wife. She still is the most beautiful amazing person I have ever known, I just now know this secret side of her I don’t know how I can live with. I feel like the special center of my life I could always count on is gone forever now that I know what she is capable of, even IF (and that is a big IF) she doesn’t do this again. While I truly believe it is over with this man for now (and she is more than willing to blow him up if I want, I think I’m finally ready to tell his wife) I have no doubts that if we struggle in the future after things settle down (think in 2-7 years) that this might happen again. If she ****ed up now or showed any of the typical confused betrayer reactions so many of you have experienced it would be easy to let go of this life but she is doing EVERYTHING she can (but in perspective there is no much she can do) to make this better and provide me comfort. I have made it crystal clear I haven't decided if I want a divorce yet but no matter what if I ever now or in the future discover a single emotional or physical betrayal no matter how small her first warning will be when she is served divorce papers.

 

I feel nothing I did deserved anything like this but in hindsight I regret thinking saying I love you 10 times a day was enough and not making it clear to her just how sexy and wanted she was, not making and forcing time together for just us, for keeping a life aside from our children a focus. She is to blame for all that too, but I felt it and did nothing for years and here we are.

 

I want to “fix this” and I want to love my wife again like I did. I just have no trust left and worst of all she isn’t my “special” thing anymore. I’m not proud to introduce her to people and talk about her anymore. I constantly obsess over their sex acts, her callous disrespect for me and the children in the way she conducted the affair and if I am a man compared to her lover (and I KNOW logically I can’t compete with the fake fantasy world they created in a real life marriage.) I just want to love her again and have her love me.

 

Is there even a chance? Am I wasting my time? If you told me in 2 years, or even 5 I would feel the way I did before I’d stay… but I am so doubtful. The worst moments for me now are the “good” ones that she is trying so hard to create, because I can’t help but feel that it pales in comparison to what my best friend, my best girl, my only love did to throw it all away for so long until I caught her.

 

I know this has been more like a novel, but its my life, and I am so very crushed. Is there any hope for me, my children, and my relationship?

 

I am sorry she did this to you. If you are not proud to tell people she's your wife and you no longer trust her you should leave. You will be given rights to see your kids. If you save the proof she cheated you might can get sole custody!! The judge might be more on your side if you show him/her proof of your wife's affair.

 

If you divorce her you could tell her you will show proof to the judge if you don't get sole custody of the kids and agree on an amount she gets. So everything is in YOUR favor.

You should tell the man's wife what her husband did. She does deserve to know.

 

She sounds heartless and shameless having sex with another man in YOUR house. She never should have cheated and most certainly she never should have brought him to your house.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Georgia2014

[betrayedandhurting]

The boxer Muhammad Ali would cover up his head and let the other fighter beat the living gashnockers out of him for the vast majority of the match. It would always look like he was well on his way to getting his @$$ kicked but it was a calculated strategy. He would let the other guy wear himself out and be lulled into thinking he was going to come out on top.

 

 

But by the final rounds the other guy was wore out and couldn't keep his arms up enough to defend himself and Ali would flip a switch inside himself and he would come back with a hail a blows and knock out his opponent in the final round.

 

 

Myself and some other posters believe your wife is using this strategy too. She is taking a beating and not doing anything to fight back. She is lulling you and the counselor into thinking that she is whipped and doesn't have any fight in her. She is making you question how she could do something like that. she is making you question how you could walk away from someone so remorseful and someone so cooperative and willing to stay and work on the issues. She is using the strategy of taking the beating until the fight is out of you.

 

 

Here is the problem with her acting like the perfect remorseful wife, she is not addressing her issues and she is not addressing what lead to a THREE YEAR affair.

 

 

While she is taking the beating and accepting all your anger and indignation, she is not fighting back. She is not addressing the issues.

 

 

This may seem kind of counterintuitive but she has had 2 affairs that we know of, one was a full-on sexual affair with regular meetings that went on for a couple years. That means she HAS to have feelings for him. She HAS to have reservations and confusions about whether she wants to remain with you or not. She HAS to have frustrations and dissatisfactions and complaints in the marriage. She HAS to have some feelings of wanting out of the marriage and explore some other freedoms and other options.

 

 

She is not addressing any of those things. She is hunkered down in the corner between the ropes with her hands covering her head and taking the beating.

 

 

And like Muhammad Ali, at some point down the road when you have exhausted all of your strength and energy and you have no more fight left in you, she is going to suddenly stand up and deliver the knockout blow.

 

 

Someone who goes out with the girls from the office and has too much to drink and gets a little too carried away and has a little groping and kissy kissy session with some hunky dude in the hallway to the bathroom at the bar may be filled with shock and regret over their actions and may completely roll over and act all devastated and beside themselves with remorse and not have anything more to say other than apologize and try to get back to normal life....

 

 

..but someone who was in an ongoing, multiyear affair and meeting their AP in their own home and in the office and God knows where else, has many layers of issues and discontents and will invariably be confused and undecided on where they want to go with things.

 

 

This is a strategy. This is part of a plan. This is a method being used to ride out the initial storm and make it through the initial barrage. The counter attack is coming and she has had it planned and has been working on it a lot longer than you have.

 

Thanks for a well written and thought out analysis. I truly, truly don't think her actions right now are calculated at all to weather a storm. I agree totally is something allows a person to start an affair and carry it on for 3 years. She is doing IC and seemingly is done with this man completely (and I'm watching, closely) but agree the answers to "why" are very thin. What she tells me is it was their ability to talk about their lives intimately that was so attractive to her and the sex made her feel young and wanted. She claims that talking about their spouses was essentially off limits as both never discussed a future but getting to tell her life's worth of stories and complaints of life (not much about me, but her work life etc.) was satisfying.

 

Now it isn't like my wife and I were ships passing in the night, we talked all the time but it was mainly about kids and the practical things of living a married life. Not intimate in the way we efforted to have before kids. She is messed up to believe that it was ok to add a man to give her a emotional boost while using me for everything else and it may well be a flaw that can't be fixed or in time I don't want to love with, but I don't think I'm married to calculating woman looking to screw me over, just one that can't help doing it when the opportunity to feel better about herself passes in front of her.

[jm2013]

I am sorry she did this to you. If you are not proud to tell people she's your wife and you no longer trust her you should leave. You will be given rights to see your kids. If you save the proof she cheated you might can get sole custody!! The judge might be more on your side if you show him/her proof of your wife's affair.

 

If you divorce her you could tell her you will show proof to the judge if you don't get sole custody of the kids and agree on an amount she gets. So everything is in YOUR favor.

You should tell the man's wife what her husband did. She does deserve to know.

 

She sounds heartless and shameless having sex with another man in YOUR house. She never should have cheated and most certainly she never should have brought him to your house.

 

Most states are no fault divorce states so they typically care less about the circumstances of any affair unless of course the other party may perhaps be a threat to the kids - abusive, drug addict etc.. With that being said, trust can be earned back. There's a long road in any recovery but IT IS POSSIBLE. Maybe not for some. I think the physical part of an affair is too much for some to handle. Especially hopping on the hamster wheel and cycling the mental images over and over and replaying it in your head daily.

 

But if his wife still WANTS HIM after she got caught and he's willing to accept that and move forward then why not give it a shot? How powerful of a love statement is that to her if he sticks with her after that? The WS can either use it or abuse it. And in this case I hope she has learned a valuable lesson and seeks the help she needs.

 

If I were the OP I would continue to do what he's doing but also be extremely aware of what's going on now. If your wife truly wants to earn your trust back she should be doing things to ensure you she's not still active with him. I know I did not want to play PI in my marriage either. My wife has unlocked everything and will leave her phone in rooms with me. I have not told her to do any of this. She has willingly given everything up.

 

So if you see your wife still has things on lock down that could be a red flag. It's going to be tricky for you cause you travel a lot. You're in a very volatile situation right now. Your wife most likely has lots of feelings for this other guy. Right now to her it may feel like a bad breakup and may gain feelings of wanting to see or interact with him to see how he's doing. I really hope her love for you and the thought that her actions now may be the true ending makes this process easy for her to keep NC with the OM.

 

Also, I hope OP and his wife are able to reinvigorate feelings for each other that perhaps have been missing for years since the kids came along. This may serve as constant reminder in their marriage to always confide in each other, open up more communication and not forget about their marriage while also raising their kids.

 

Good luck OP. I'm sure you'll be back here with many ups and downs in your journey. Just do what is in your heart and what you feel is right. It seems like you've got your head well on your shoulders.

Edited August 21, 2014 by jm2013

[oldshirt]

Thanks for a well written and thought out analysis. I truly, truly don't think her actions right now are calculated at all to weather a storm.

 

 

 

 

Yes it is. It is her way of getting through this shock and anger stage as quickly and with as little harm to her as possible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree totally is something allows a person to start an affair and carry it on for 3 years. She is doing IC and seemingly is done with this man completely (and I'm watching, closely) but agree the answers to "why" are very thin. What she tells me is it was their ability to talk about their lives intimately that was so attractive to her and the sex made her feel young and wanted.

 

 

 

 

It may be as simple as that. It is having her cake and eating it too. She was able to compartmentalize enough that she was the dutiful happy wife and mother with you and hot porn star with him. It just sucks for you since he was the one getting the hot sex and you were the one dealing with the cable bill and picking up kids from soccer.

 

Now it isn't like my wife and I were ships passing in the night, we talked all the time but it was mainly about kids and the practical things of living a married life. Not intimate in the way we efforted to have before kids.

 

 

 

 

That's because she was getting those needs met elsewhere.

 

 

 

 

She is messed up to believe that it was ok to add a man to give her a emotional boost while using me for everything else and it may well be a flaw that can't be fixed or in time I don't want to love with,

 

 

 

 

You are correct, you may not be able to continue on being married to her after this. My point is she is trying to hedge her bets by curling up and taking the beating and not rocking the boat at this time. That doesn't mean that you don't have a seven-headed hydra coming at you off your port bow.

 

 

 

 

but I don't think I'm married to calculating woman looking to screw me over, just one that can't help doing it when the opportunity to feel better about herself passes in front of her

 

 

 

 

The term "screwing over" may be a little harsh and unwarranted here. I'm not suggesting she is a true gold-digger or anything like that. I'm not saying she is trying to screw you over and defraud you for retirement account and trust from your late Uncle Marvin.

But what I am saying is she is using this tactic to get you to exhaust your shock and anger and indignation and to soften up your stance towards her as long as possible in hopes that it will just blow over once your anger subsides and regular life starts distracting you and you basically go back to business as usual.

In other words it's not a strategy to defraud you in any real sense or to 'screw you over,'

..... it's to simply get away with it.

She's like a kid who's been sneaking into the liguor cabinet and having fun taking a hit of vodka and bourbon under her parents nose on a regular basis. She knows eventually she'll screw up and get caught and she knows at that time the parents are gonna be pissed and lock up the cabinet better.

So she has her fun with the booze as much as she can while she can, and then when she gets busted she cries and apologizes profusely and cleans her room and does her chores and takes every lecture and chewing out her parents give her.

All in hopes that if she can survive the initial salvo of anger and hostility, her lack of fighting back with shorten the anger period and things will get back to normal sooner so she will walk away with the minimum punishment and soon the increased level of surveillance and supervision will subside and she will be able to find another supply of booze again after a period of being dry for awhile.

What makes your situation so dangerous here is always going to be burdened with the ho-hum realities of married life and parenthood and there are always going to be a million opportunities for someone else to fill in the sexuality needs.

If she was fighting back and being open about her issues, at least her needs could be being addressed and discussed. At least then you may have the option of realizing you can't resolve this and you can both work on exit strategies that will cause the least damage and pain to everyone involved.

But as it stands right now, she is simply taking the beating and taking her punishment and cleaning up her room and doing her chores like the naughty child in hopes that Dad's anger will get over quickly and life will get back to normal soon so she can start sneaking some sips of vodka again once they stop watching her like a hawk .

This is what makes a serial cheater "serial."

 

 

.

 

responses in bold above.

[betrayedandhurting]

I agree with all the bold responses above. My biggest fear is that my wife truly "loves" me, is doing everything to get back to "normal" (without the affair) but then 3-10 years down the line if normal is boring and she starts getting depressed again the first man that gives her attention will be the next affair. I don't think she is consciously planning that today, I'm sure she think "never again" but who knows and history is a guide. So I could divorce her now and be done with it or I can try and know I may waste years and get hurt again. But could with another woman too. And I want to give my kids one more chance to have a 2 parent home. So I'm going to try.

[oldshirt]

I have to throw this in as well because this is where I see you being in the upcoming weeks and months.

 

 

Last night I caught a chunk of the movie "Love Actually" and there is a scene where Emma Thompson realizes her husband is having an affair with another woman.

 

 

She doesn't really confront him directly but rather after the school play she casually asks him what he would do if he found out she were having an affair.

 

 

She asks him, "what would you do? would you stay, knowing that things will always be worse? Or would you cut and run?"

 

 

I think that is the true dilemma here and the true question that eventually will need to be answered.

 

 

The life and the marriage you thought you had before will never be the same. You both are always going to have this cloud over your head. She has established a pattern here so you will never be able to trust her fully again. That which you thought was so exclusive and sacred between you, no longer is. Things will never be blindly and blissfully wonderful again...

 

 

...but perhaps they may be 'good enough.'

 

 

 

 

Or do you just throw in the towel and walk and make a clean break and start a new life for yourself? You can make a good argument either way there too.

 

 

It really comes down to two options, do you settle for a post-affair life or do you take your chances and go for the post-divorce life? Both with have their own hardships and expenses as well as benefits and payoffs.

 

 

But my own personal opinion is since you are at the moment undecided, you at least need to hear her side of it and find out what her true issues and needs of a marriage are. And she is not doing that while she is hunkered in the corner taking her licks. She has to shove back and has to fight back.

 

 

If she can't or won't do that, then you are living another lie currently because her apologies and her concessions and her vows of remorse etc are just a lip-service to keep her from getting grounded for more days than if she argued back against her parents for breaking into the liquor cabinet.

 

 

if does come clean and address it, you may decide to walk. but you may decide it can be delt with and stay. If she can't or won't come clean, then you don't know what the reality is in your own home and so staying is the biggest gamble and you might as well be on your own because at least then you know whats really going on in your own home.

[betrayedandhurting]

I guess at this point if I'm saying I'm attempting R and don't plan to D what things should we doing to strengthen our marriage and my wife herself to avoid this ever again? She is in IC and we have started MC. I think the 2 things in our marriage that could use improving is 1) time spent one on one as a couple with intimate conversation about us vs. kids and 2) improved physical connection both in quantity and quality (it never left, was about twice a week but was often the "same" but "good."). Both those 2 are being addressed in a big way but right now with a disaster still close in the rear view mirror it's easy, I don't know if we can keep the place and priorities we have set nor do I want to feel like a dancing monkey who needs to keep my wife entertained lest she get bored and cheat again.

[RightThere]

Hang in there. The parallels between your story and mine are almost uncanny.

 

No one here is going to have all the answers. You know what you want to do and what you're willing to accept as risks.

 

Just know that there are no easy answers. It will be a double edged sword for you. Your wife is a serial cheater and although you have to be vigilant with what she's doing and what she tells you, if you're wanting to actually reconcile you'll need to let go of a lot of things to.

 

Make sure you don't operate out of fear. You may thing you know your own motives, but make sure and really self reflect as to why you feel and react the way that you do.

 

Good luck to you. No matter what you choose to do, it's the right choice for you and your family right now.

[aliveagain]

I agree with all the bold responses above. My biggest fear is that my wife truly "loves" me, is doing everything to get back to "normal" (without the affair) but then 3-10 years down the line if normal is boring and she starts getting depressed again the first man that gives her attention will be the next affair. I don't think she is consciously planning that today, I'm sure she think "never again" but who knows and history is a guide. So I could divorce her now and be done with it or I can try and know I may waste years and get hurt again. But could with another woman too. And I want to give my kids one more chance to have a 2 parent home. So I'm going to try.

 

 

You are right, another woman may cheat on you (assuming you left your wife and began a new relationship down the road), my bet is your wife is a far greater risk of that happening, she has proven it to you more than once. No matter what anyone say's or attempts to convince you that they are unenforceable, if I were in your shoes an iron clad Post Nuptial Agreement written by the best attorney from your region that states that she will walk from marital assets if you divorce because of another infidelity would be an absolute condition of reconciliation. Let her prove it is unenforceable in a Court of Law with her own money. You need deterrents because loosing you and her children haven't been enough so far. A post nuptial agreement wouldn't exist if they were not enforceable or served their purpose as a deterrent. Nothing you did before worked why not try something new that says "Last Chance."

 

What will it take for you to say enough, staying together for your children is the wrong reason to stay together. I hope your not betting on a three legged horse.

[Buckeye2]

You’re a pilot in real life. Let’s say that you just found out that the type of plane you fly has a structural problem. Of course you would want the engineers to come up with a permanent fix. Well, your wife isn’t an airplane and there is no permanent fix.

 

I would try my best to improve my marriage but I would never trust her to the same degree. That would allow her to hurt me again. I would downgrade her in my mind to girlfriend. That way if she cheats again it will not hurt as much.

 

I would do what you're doing, get my financial house in order and reevaluate my situation when my kids are all over 18 years old.

 

Oldshirt’s posts are fantastic and I think he may be spot on.

 

As I’ve mentioned before an alternative is that your wife’s submissive. I don’t want to beat a dead horse but my best friend’s wife is submissive and I know something about it.

 

From what you wrote the OMW didn’t sound too upset when you spoke to her. Was she? My guess is that his wife may be submissive too.

 

You treat your wife with respect and the OM didn’t. He was mean to everyone at work, just less mean to your wife. Going straight to sex with no small talk is submissive. BJs can be very submissive.

 

On D day you became mad and became more dominant than the OM. My alternate theory to Oldshirt’s is that she isn’t lying low, she being totally submissive.