D-Day plus 6 weeks. Wife betrayal, long story... .

[DKT3]

The last couple comments have been great. You can't run on fear or stay for the kids.

 

I have a friend who stayed married for his kids, the same week the youngest left for college he filed for divorce (not for infidelity). Its been four or five years now and he is happy with a new woman. His regrets? Staying unhappy in the marriage for so long. The kicker is that his oldest daughter told him she wishes he had of done years ago if this is the man he truly is, she said it would have made her life better to have this happy father.

[dental]

I don't think I'm married to calculating woman looking to screw me over, just one that can't help doing it when the opportunity to feel better about herself passes in front of her.

 

Hmmmm. I am confused by your tone. You sound so rational to me. You make it sound that she is an innocent lost soul, with possible boundary and impulse control issues. Could be. But by reading your story she sounds as calculating as Einstein figuring out relativity. Why? Because it is not plausible to lead a double life for three years without elaborate planning, calculating, compartementalizing and all kinds of mind stretching to pull it off. In the last sentence of the quote you assume that your wife is not capable of making rational decisions. Are you sure?

[betrayedandhurting]

I would get that if not for the tons of cheaters who have said (and I believe them) that they found themselves not looking for affairs, feeling fairly happily married but then suddenly and affair starts and they kept going back for the drug hit time and again feeling like they weren't harming their spouse and no one needed to know. They often state they wanted to stop but suddenly it was years later and they didn't know how. This seems to be more common with MEN who cheat but there are women that do the same thing. My wife's affair doesn't look or sound like an "exit affair" ... she didn't even "date" him. It was like an hour or two a week for a physical connection followed by talking about he daily events of their lives (you know... what was missing from our marriage!) clearly she was wrong to do this, she never told me she was unhappy, and it's not my fault.

[Buckeye2]

My wife's affair doesn't look or sound like an "exit affair" ... she didn't even "date" him. It was like an hour or two a week for a physical connection followed by talking about he daily events of their lives (you know... what was missing from our marriage!) clearly she was wrong to do this, she never told me she was unhappy, and it's not my fault.

 

It was like her husband was her primary care physician and the OM was her cardiologist taking care of one special need.

 

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

[jm2013]

I would get that if not for the tons of cheaters who have said (and I believe them) that they found themselves not looking for affairs, feeling fairly happily married but then suddenly and affair starts and they kept going back for the drug hit time and again feeling like they weren't harming their spouse and no one needed to know. They often state they wanted to stop but suddenly it was years later and they didn't know how. This seems to be more common with MEN who cheat but there are women that do the same thing. My wife's affair doesn't look or sound like an "exit affair" ... she didn't even "date" him. It was like an hour or two a week for a physical connection followed by talking about he daily events of their lives (you know... what was missing from our marriage!) clearly she was wrong to do this, she never told me she was unhappy, and it's not my fault.

 

Do you think if your situation was twisted around and YOU had a 3 year affair that your wife uncovered she'd extend the same forgiveness you're trying to offer? Just curious. I have always wondered if my wife would have left me or what would have happened if the tables had been turned.

[fellini]

Do you think if your situation was twisted around and YOU had a 3 year affair that your wife uncovered she'd extend the same forgiveness you're trying to offer? Just curious. I have always wondered if my wife would have left me or what would have happened if the tables had been turned.

 

I know my WS would have never allowed me back if the tables were turned. But I don't seem to find that hypothetical question, for some reason, something to take into consideration when I was making my own decision about what I was prepared to put up with. I already know from raising a daughter with her that we do not agree on a lot of things about what is acceptable and not.

 

There is a terrific film somewhat on this topic: Stuck in Love with Greg Kinnear.

[drifter777]

If you keep actively discussing the details of the affair with her then there will be more "trickle truths" exposed. A WW will never reveal sexual details that you cannot absolutely verify, but they often leak out from time to time.

 

It is predictable that a BH will begin to rationalize and defend his WW after the initial shock and pain begin to wear off - it seems to happen every time. I think it's fueled by his fear of being alone and facing the world without a partner. Sometimes even his ego and pride motivate him to try to smooth things over and make things work in order to minimize the humiliation of the whole mess. Using the children as a motivation sounds noble - and I understand it because I did it too - but it is just another rationalization.

 

You say that you have to learn how to have more meaningful one-on-one time with your wife. Great. But you do have kids and a job and all of the crappy things that intrude on you in real life. When she compares the attention she is getting from you with the attention from other men who are trying to get into her pants, you are going to come up short. That's not to say that you can't try to make more time for your relationship because of course you can. The problem could be that it just will never be enough for her due to her pathological need to be desired and pursued by men.

 

I always advise a BH to divorce his cheating wife because reconciliation is just too damn hard and will often fail anyway. But, I understand where you are right now and your desperate, overwhelming need to try to save your marriage and just pray that time will heal your wounds. I hope it works for you, but know that it doesn't seem to work for many men. For you it might be worth it - at least in your mind - to sacrifice your happiness to try to provide a "normal" family life for your kids. To help channel the contempt that you are likely to feel for her at some point you can fantasize about serving her with divorce papers the day after your youngest graduates high school. I hope you will have the strength to end it the next time she cheats.

[confused34]

Wow, what a truly sad story.

 

I can tell you from a woman's perspective who doesn't get any affection, love, attention OR sex from her Husband, I feel the absolute need to be desired & wanted. However, even though he's treating me the way he does, I still can't bring myself to cheat on him, and never will I. I have men who pursue me as well, and it would be very easy. Nice looking men, nice bodies, very successful, etc. Doesn't matter. Sex isn't good anyway unless you love the person, to me anyway. Not that's it's not good, but when you love the person you're having sex with, it's that much better!

 

I say all this to say, women need to feel wanted & desired. It's just how we are wired. But the thing I find odd is your wife never pleading & begging with you to show her more affection & attention. I can't tell you the amount of letters I have wrote my husband stating in black & white what I need, why, how I feel, and how I would feel if he could just show me more attention & make me feel desired as his wife. Why didn't she come to you, as your best friend, and soul mate & say she didn't feel this way? It sounds like this is all a game to her. She has everything she could want, but sounds like she also has a mental disorder of some sort & left unchecked and untreated this vicious cycle will continue. Did she have tons of drama in her life growing up? Believe it or not, some can't function without it & cheating & getting caught thrills some people & the drama afterwards also satisfies them.

 

You sound like a wonderful man, Husband & Father. Maybe taking time to separate would be best. Don't jump in a divorce & risk losing all you have worked for, but make her get help in the time you two are apart.

 

I wish you nothing but the best & prayers that no matter which way it goes, that you will have a wonderful life.

[2sunny]

Be smart!

 

Get your house in your name only... The loan on it too!

 

Move any and all assets into only your name.

 

And have her sign a post nup agreement now showing she gets nothing - even if it's not useful ideally in court later.

 

IF she shows the slightest bit of resistance - then you have things to think about.

 

But at LEAST it provides you with a smart plan should she ever cheat again.

 

This is your time to think ahead based on her history. If she intends to do this right moving forward she won't have any problem with your requests. It's a very narrow window of time now - that you have this chance to "protect yourself" in the future! Six months from now she won't have any reason to do any of it.

[aliveagain]

betrayedandhurting sounds like you have everything under control, sounds like your going to do exactly what you did in the past and I hope this third time she gets it. I have to ask you the question that's been at the back of my mind because your indifference has me wondering, "have you or are you having your own affair?" Please don't take offence and this is not an attack on you, it's just my past experience with people that are defensive of their betrayed spouse's are so because they themselves are Madhatters or have things to hide. If I am off base please accept my apology.

[jm2013]

Be smart!

 

Get your house in your name only... The loan on it too!

 

Move any and all assets into only your name.

 

And have her sign a post nup agreement now showing she gets nothing - even if it's not useful ideally in court later.

 

IF she shows the slightest bit of resistance - then you have things to think about.

 

But at LEAST it provides you with a smart plan should she ever cheat again.

 

This is your time to think ahead based on her history. If she intends to do this right moving forward she won't have any problem with your requests. It's a very narrow window of time now - that you have this chance to "protect yourself" in the future! Six months from now she won't have any reason to do any of it.

 

At least in my state the above mentioned has no meaning. All assets would still be split down the pipe. It doesn't matter who's name it's in. If you really want to start protecting yourself start pulling out cash here and there and tucking it away into a safe or something. Then just say you blew the money gambling if questioned. Some states don't even take post nups into account so watch out. Perhaps speaking with a lawyer will give you peace of mind what you'd need to do if things don't end up working out.

[2sunny]

At least in my state the above mentioned has no meaning. All assets would still be split down the pipe. It doesn't matter who's name it's in. If you really want to start protecting yourself start pulling out cash here and there and tucking it away into a safe or something. Then just say you blew the money gambling if questioned. Some states don't even take post nups into account so watch out. Perhaps speaking with a lawyer will give you peace of mind what you'd need to do if things don't end up working out.

 

That's not really the point of why I posted it. Doing these things could be a good indicator whether she will do ANYTHING to set things right. Her intent, so to speak...

[jm2013]

That's not really the point of why I posted it. Doing these things could be a good indicator whether she will do ANYTHING to set things right. Her intent, so to speak...

 

Got ya. Sorry, misinterpreted where you were going with that. It would also be interesting if his wife has already spoken to a lawyer. I'm not sure if this is common for a WS to explorer during an affair but I know my wife saw at least two.

[Try]

I would get that if not for the tons of cheaters who have said (and I believe them) that they found themselves not looking for affairs, feeling fairly happily married but then suddenly and affair starts and they kept going back for the drug hit time and again feeling like they weren't harming their spouse and no one needed to know. They often state they wanted to stop but suddenly it was years later and they didn't know how. This seems to be more common with MEN who cheat but there are women that do the same thing. My wife's affair doesn't look or sound like an "exit affair" ... she didn't even "date" him. It was like an hour or two a week for a physical connection followed by talking about he daily events of their lives (you know... what was missing from our marriage!) clearly she was wrong to do this, she never told me she was unhappy, and it's not my fault.

Studies show that new romantic relationships produce a powerful cocaine like brain drug that fades with time as the relationship matures. As a long term spouse she just cannot get this brain drug from you. Like any addict, your wife is addicted to the brain drug that cheating produces. Over the last 7 years, your wife has cheated for almost 1/2 of it over 2 different affairs that you know about. Since surveys show that most affairs go completely undetected without even suspicion, and if if detected are almost always denies by the cheater, chance are very strong that there may be others that you do not know about. I am saying this because she is a serial cheater. She sees you as a close friend that is a good provider and father to her children, but not as her lover. This will not change, because you have know her so long that you are the same old same old that cannot give the brain drugs that only a new lover can. She will lay low for a bit, and then probably cheat again. After the first time she was caught, she got better at covering her tracks and she will get even better going forward.

 

Again, you know about 2 affairs in the last 7 years that includes over 3 years of cheating. That is bad enough, but can you really say that there were no others? Can you really say that she is unlikely to cheat again? During the last 7 years, you have been with woman that has not been fully invested in being your wife. Many people that leave a cheater, and remarry to someone that is fully invested in their marriage, will tell you that if they knew what they were missing in living in a full marriage, they would have left earlier and not wasted years of there life trying to make it work. Do not short change yourself. There is someone out there that wants to be full invested in a marriage to you. Someone that you do not have to look over your shoulders everyday. Someone that you can fully trust. Someone that will thank God everyday that they found you in there life. I usually advise to try R when there are children, but not for proven serial cheaters.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Try

[DKT3]

First I will say I totally understand what your going through and why you want to save your marriage. I was with my wife for just shy of 20 years when she cheated. I loved her deeply and couldn't see a life without her. Then like a light switch I couldn't see a life with her. This thing is long from over.

 

I do have a question. Your wife made a vow and commitment on your wedding day, then she cheated, she made a vow and commitment after she cheated, then cheated again. What is she doing NOW that makes you think she will stand by her vow and commitment this time? I sure after the first time you did say "ok you only get one more chance to cheat, then I'm going to leave"

 

When I first started posting here people will tell you that I spoke about all the things my ex wife was doing right to win me back after 5 years apart. However once the smoke cleared and I allowed her back she slowly begun to reverse direction and started going back to being the wife I divorced minus the cheating. I made excuses for her. She posts here as well and its hard to read her taking a beating, its hard to not jump in and defend her. But alast there is the difference, I will no longer make excuses for her, I no longer defend her. She keeps coming back, and she keeps getting raked over the coals. I proud of her for that, she is doing things different. She tells me what she feels, even if it hurts me. So I can see a future that is more then wishful thinking. Right now all you have is wishful thinking. Sorry but that isn't going to be enough.

[fellini]

Studies show that new romantic relationships produce a powerful cocaine like brain drug that fades with time as the relationship matures. As a long term spouse she just cannot get this brain drug from you. Like any addict, your wife is addicted to the brain drug that cheating produces.

 

Wow. That's not exactly right, you should get your facts straight.

 

As a long term spouse she sure can get this FEELING back. You forgot to mention that one chemical is replaced by another, equally addictive.

 

She was not an addict to the "cocaine high", she became addicted to the affair because it produced those same feelings. Cheating is NOT, not by a LONG SHOT, the only activity in which to produce dopamine / serotonin (infatuation high).

 

The work of Esther Perel (Mating in Captivity: Reconciling the erotic with the domestic and Helen Fisher on The Brain in Love is all about how couples can ensure that they can have a safe, domestic relationship AND interact in activities which rekindle those same chemicals and feelings associated with infatuation. And it isn't all about going all kinky and 50 Shades of Grey.

 

So NO, it's not true that she cannot get this "drug" from her spouse, the thing is they need to COLLABORATE on getting that intensity back.

[merrmeade]

Wow. That's not exactly right, you should get your facts straight.

 

As a long term spouse she sure can get this FEELING back. You forgot to mention that one chemical is replaced by another, equally addictive.

 

She was not an addict to the "cocaine high", she became addicted to the affair because it produced those same feelings. Cheating is NOT, not by a LONG SHOT, the only activity in which to produce dopamine / serotonin (infatuation high).

 

The work of Esther Perel (Mating in Captivity: Reconciling the erotic with the domestic and Helen Fisher on The Brain in Love is all about how couples can ensure that they can have a safe, domestic relationship AND interact in activities which rekindle those same chemicals and feelings associated with infatuation. And it isn't all about going all kinky and 50 Shades of Grey.

 

So NO, it's not true that she cannot get this "drug" from her spouse, the thing is they need to COLLABORATE on getting that intensity back.

 

Guess this is more helpful than trying to change BS's mind - making simple pleasure, including one's own, a priority for a time.

 

Still, hope BS is getting his own IC. Don't underestimate the power of the shock and storm you've undergone. You think you know how you feel, but you might look back later with some disbelief at your actions and words during this time - especially efforts to support WS and keep the peace.

 

I poo-pooed a therapist that told me I should forget about my H for a while - whether I stayed or went - and just focus on me and getting balance, clarity, goals. I said nonsense; we have to do this together. I actually think I thought that making him see how much I was hurting was like revenge. Regardless, I think the 'focus on me' was needed and now way overdue. Wish I'd listened. Just a thought.

[RightThere]

My biggest fear is that my wife truly "loves" me, is doing everything to get back to "normal" (without the affair) but then 3-10 years down the line if normal is boring and she starts getting depressed again the first man that gives her attention will be the next affair. I don't think she is consciously planning that today, I'm sure she think "never again" but who knows and history is a guide. So I could divorce her now and be done with it or I can try and know I may waste years and get hurt again. But could with another woman too. And I want to give my kids one more chance to have a 2 parent home. So I'm going to try.

 

Just to give you another perspective, I have that conversation with my WW about my "fear" that down the road it could happen again. And no matter what the situation, you have to know that there are no guarantees here. It totally could happen again. And getting "duped" for a third time is not akin to wasting years trying to make it work.

 

You can only control yourself and what you do. What she does is all on her. You can definitely make the situation a home better, work on yourself and work on a better relationship with your WW. But you aren't wasting anything by trying. Everyone who says "I wish I'd divorced her sooner" has the perspective of hindsight.

 

You are not wrong for trying to work things out. And if the worst happens, you still won't be wrong for giving her another chance. I'm still living with my WW who is a serial cheater. It's my choice to do so based on having more of the facts than family, friends, or anyone on this board.

 

Your decisions right now don't have to be long term. You can do this for 3 months, then re-evaluate.

 

Just don't be afraid of leaving her either. I know first hand how easy it is to say you are not. But you will adjust, your kids will adjust, and your wife will be OK on her own without you.

 

Good luck to you.

[Jonah]

I guess at this point if I'm saying I'm attempting R and don't plan to D what things should we doing to strengthen our marriage and my wife herself to avoid this ever again?

 

It is a worthy cause. Beware though, she could be perfect but you could change. Like an acid whose concentration is increased exponentially because of the duration of the affair, the implications if left unchecked will dissolve your heart, turn you into something that you don't want to be. For many, it doesn't get easier, it gets harder. You hit 60 and it may all come back in a flood. A positive is that you are intelligent and be able to understand illusion from reality. The reality being that she loves you, the illusion being the past.

 

It is worth it, if you can keep yourself intact. Turning bitter would be an indication that a new life may be in order. Be kind to your wife sir.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Jonah
left words out

[Try]

As a long term spouse she sure can get this FEELING back. You forgot to mention that one chemical is replaced by another, equally addictive.

You are correct that it is indeed replaced by other things, which I normally mention, but it is not the same addictive brain drug. Similar to the fact that a someone addicted to cocaine cannot get there addiction needs met by smoking weed, someone addicted to the new relationship brain drug cannot get there needs meet by what they get from the long term relationship. Typically cheaters are cake eaters that want both.

[Stellar Wench]

Sir, you keep referring to your wife's THREE YEAR affair as a mistake. Make no mistake, pun intended, a three year affair is not a mistake. Every time you were out of town or out of the house, she was taking steps to deceive you. She was lying to your face for three years. Her only mistake was getting caught. Everything else was carefully calculated. So while she regrets her affair now, please stop calling it a mistake, because it most certainly was not.

 

You are right to have fears that your wife will get bored or insecure or need the attention of another man in the future. Because she will. There will always be temptations. Will she be able to resist those temptations long term? Stay in MC if you it benefits you, but understand the fundamental problem is with your wife. It's wonderful that she recognizes that she needs external attention and has FOO issues. Understand that breaking this cycle takes diligent therapy and constant reinforcement. For years. Know that it's impossible to affair-proof a marriage when one of the spouses is predisposed to infidelity.

 

Best of luck to you. I admire your tenacity and desire to keep your family together, even if you must risk your heart to do it. If I could give you any further counsel, it would be to protect yourself financially should another indiscretion occur.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Stellar Wench

[betrayedandhurting]

betrayedandhurting sounds like you have everything under control, sounds like your going to do exactly what you did in the past and I hope this third time she gets it. I have to ask you the question that's been at the back of my mind because your indifference has me wondering, "have you or are you having your own affair?" Please don't take offence and this is not an attack on you, it's just my past experience with people that are defensive of their betrayed spouse's are so because they themselves are Madhatters or have things to hide. If I am off base please accept my apology.

 

Absolutely not. My wife is the love of my life for 20 years, married 14. She is more beautiful every year, a great mother, very smart, keeps a beautiful house and was my partner in crime in life. I never saw this coming. We have grown more distant as a couple since the children were born and she has gotten more annoyed and passive aggressive towards small annoyances she perceives in me (and now claims that was her "f-up'd thought process that was warped and lost all perspective).

[betrayedandhurting]

Sir, you keep referring to your wife's THREE YEAR affair as a mistake. Make no mistake, pun intended, a three year affair is not a mistake. Every time you were out of town or out of the house, she was taking steps to deceive you. She was lying to your face for three years. Her only mistake was getting caught. Everything else was carefully calculated. So while she regrets her affair now, please stop calling it a mistake, because it most certainly was not.

 

You are right to have fears that your wife will get bored or insecure or need the attention of another man in the future. Because she will. There will always be temptations. Will she be able to resist those temptations long term? Stay in MC if you it benefits you, but understand the fundamental problem is with your wife. It's wonderful that she recognizes that she needs external attention and has FOO issues. Understand that breaking this cycle takes diligent therapy and constant reinforcement. For years. Know that it's impossible to affair-proof a marriage when one of the spouses is predisposed to infidelity.

 

Best of luck to you. I admire your tenacity and desire to keep your family together, even if you must risk your heart to do it. If I could give you any further counsel, it would be to protect yourself financially should another indiscretion occur.

 

 

I insisted early on and she since has always been careful to refer to the affair as a choice never a mistake. Obviously I slipped and perhaps that shows my subconscious bias.

[2sunny]

Obviously you want us to tell you it's going to work out well.

 

Even if it does - there's tremendous pain ahead IF you address her issues.

 

No one can know what she will or won't do.

 

But you can control yourself. You can know what boundary you have. Choose a solid, healthy boundary and stick to it. No moving it. You get to decide what that looks like for YOU.

 

Write it down! You may need to remind yourself when you feel the need to get soft on acceptable vs unacceptable things that will pop up.

 

Get to IC for yourself. You need guidance. Someone in your corner that can help you through the rough stuff that's yet to hit you...and be ready, it will come.

 

You're still wishy washy about how you might handle it IF she ever cheats again - decide now. Have a plan just in case. It's best that way instead of "reacting" under critical circumstances.

 

Be sure and take care of yourself first! You can't offer anyone anything of value if you aren't your best self.

 

Map out what you expect from her. If she's not willing to hand you peace of mind on a silver platter even a year or five years from now she may be planning to cheat.

 

My exH cheated at the ten year mark. He waited another ten years to do it again (when I found out anyway).

 

If like to have back those ten years but I can't. Heck, I'd like 20 back! But we had it all and he still was never satisfied. Some people have that narcissistic personality and nothing can fix it.

 

I have peace of mind now - I don't have to waste mental energy wondering if the slight nod to the gal helping us shop just slipped him her number. His newer wife can bear that burden now.

 

 

If you find your W doesn't grow a conscience and become transparent and honest though - there's little reason to stay.

 

I hope she's willing to do anything to repair the damage she's caused twice!

 

 

What were the results of your tests? Any diseases?

[Try]

My wife is the love of my life for 20 years, married 14. She is more beautiful every year, a great mother, very smart, keeps a beautiful house and was my partner in crime in life.

I noticed that you had to leave out that you are her one and only when you said that she was the love of your life. You are in love with the memory of your wife, are you sure that is really who she still is?

 

We have grown more distant as a couple since the children were born and she has gotten more annoyed and passive aggressive towards small annoyances she perceives in me (and now claims that was her "f-up'd thought process that was warped and lost all perspective).

Children usually have an effect on the marriage as you must learn to share your love with your children. As for her getting more annoyed at you, this is a normal thing that cheaters do as they rationalize their cheating by finding fault with you. Much of the last 7 years have been a lie, where she never really gave you a chance. Where normally if she were faithful she would talk to you and try to work issues out with you, when she is in an affair she will not tell you about these issues so that she can blame shift in her own mind the reasons for her cheating onto you.

 

That being said, I can tell that you will be forgiving her again, even with the knowledge in the back of your mind that you can never trust her to be faithful. It is your life and your call. I hope that I am wrong and wish you well.