D-Day plus 6 weeks. Wife betrayal, long story... .

[2sunny]

As an after thought... Sell that tainted house!

 

Move anywhere else! She ruined the space you're living in.

 

When you buy the new house put it your name only.

[No Limit]

OP, you sound just like all the other men and women who were immediately manipulated into a safety-feeling after D-Day.

 

No offense but you're drowning in denial and co-dependancy, so I'll leave this thread be since there's no progress for you to make. For your sake, I hope you'll be strong enough to leave her the next time though.

[Running Man]

Of course she'll do anything to keep you from destroying her comfortable, safe lifestyle. You can ask her to jump through hoops of fire and bark like a dog standing on a pedestal. She'll do that with nooo problem. She'll throw the OM under the bus because her livelihood is being threatened.(Just like the OM will do the same to her when you tell his wife).

 

Bottom line is your wife wanted to cheat. She conspired to cheat for over 2 years behind your back. She wanted no strings attached sex from the OM while you provided the rest. She was paranoid enough to keep you "asleep" by giving you "leftovers". Get a new bed for your bedroom. You really think that they had sex for 2-3 times a month om the couch only??? (That would be Mundane)

[lolablue17]

I think your concern is for the long run. Now she is under the influence of her last cheating. the stress of losing her united family, losing you, the guilt feelings because of the pain she caused - All are fresh!

 

But in few years the routine, the need to be desired, the danger will feel weaker, etc... I can't say she will surely cheat, but the environmental conditions will be there... lurking...Her nature and desires will never change - only her decisions can change.

 

The only way you can deal with it in the future is to be there with her, to love her, to make her feel wanted and desired by you. It's hard work, man... hard work with no guarantees...

 

I wish you luck!

[James-London]

Hi there.

 

Well, I was sorry to read about your situation. I was also struck at the parallels with my situation - my ex-GF said that she was cheating because she liked to "feel chased" and "feel pretty". Also, my ex was able to "compartmentalise" the situation, and I do believe that she genuinely loved me (as I believe your wife does loves you).

 

I do not agree that the relationship is necessarily irretrievable as some posters are saying. However, I would agree that there was absolutely no excuse or justification for what she did.

 

I can also really relate to what you were saying about basically being a little bit too willing to please and be there for your wife. Looking back at my relationship, my ex was testing me to see what she could get away with, although I didn't realise it at the time. Although I am assertive in all my other relationships, I'm ashamed to say that I was a bit of a doormat when it came to her.

 

So, what to do? Well, there are a few practical things that have been mentioned already. These include:

 

1. getting her tested for STDs. I would also get yourself tested at the same time.

2. speaking to a lawyer about divorce. You have already found out the situation if you got divorced today. But what if things were a bit different over then next 6 - 12 months? What if you could prove she moved out the home or behaved unreasonably etc. - would that impact on any divorce settlement? I'm not suggesting you should engineer events going forwards for a divorce, but well... forewarned is forearmed... something to think about!!

3. You mention you go for runs. Continue to do this. Exercise was the single most valuable thing I did for reducing stress and getting perspective.

 

What I can see happening in your wife's behaviour is that she is scared of losing you, the home the kids. So, she is doing everything she can to keep you. Well, that is something. There are also lots of tears and "i love you" messages from her too.... Listen – it is really important that you do not let her believe that any particular action she takes will necessarily be enough to win you back.

 

I think this is a really important point. If you let her believe that if she just does actions x, y and z then everything will be OK again, then you are basically teaching her how to get away with it. I am sure you can see that this is recipe for the same thing happening again (only she will be more careful next time). Also, to be frank – she will just respect you less.

 

My advice would be – don’t necessarily reject all these efforts she is making to win you back. However, I would also be pretty aloof with her. By all means enjoy the sex if you wish – but try not to be too emotionally involved with her. She will be looking for signs that you are forgiving her, that everything is moving towards OK… Don’t give her that satisfaction.

 

 

As I said above, it sounds like you were too willing to please. What I suggest is that you be a little bit more selfish. Think about what your hobbies are or where you want to take the kids. Don’t push it too far by behaving unreasonably or pulling your own weight or else she will feel justification in pushing you away…. I would also take a step back and ask what have each of you been investing/sacrificing/committing to the relationship and each other in the last however many years? Has there been an imbalance here?

 

In my case I was too eager to please. And my ex ended up seeking validation from another guy who she saw as higher value and didn’t “need her so much”. It sounds like there are parallels there with you.

 

The other thing to say is that I do not believe there was no emotional connection with this guy and it was only physical after 2.5 years. Unless your wife is a nymphomaniac, I just don’t think women work that way. It is good that she is offering to go with you and tell his wife in person. That means she is taking an action to basically hurt him in order to try to win you back. That means she is putting your welfare above his welfare. This should count for something. Also, if she was working with him, I would get her to tell the people at work the reason why she left. If that causes him embarrassment or damage, then so be it. Make clear to her that if she even flinches from doing any of this, then she can just forget about it.

 

The other thing is – how will the other man’s wife take all of this information? If she does not know, she could react very aggressively. Consider whether it is a good idea to take your wife initially to meet his wife. Consider whether you should take along proof, and whether the wife might need to be told the full truth over a few meetings.

 

Apart from humiliating the other guy and wrecking his life, will your wife take the step of telling people in her community what she did? It is your call whether you want people to know about this. But I think that would be a big proof of her commitment to you. Also, it would show there are real consequences for her actions.

 

All of the above might sound like a bit formula for how to rescue the marriage. It is not meant to be. Unfortunately, your marriage is probably over. I mention all the above things because they are all things I would do ANYWAY, regardless of whether I ended up staying with her or not. i.e – if it is not enough that she humiliates the husband to rescue your marriage, at least you will feel better that this happened to the guy anyway!

 

Please note that in all the above, I am not giving you a formula for how to rescue the marriage. My view is that there is a good chance your marriage will not survive this. The purpose of the above is to put you in an emotionally stronger position.

 

I think it is good that you are not blaming yourself for what happened. However, do consider what I said above about being too available, too loving… In every relationship, there is a power dynamic – even marriages of 20+years.

 

You cannot separate the woman you love from the disgusting things she did. So, either you keep her and accept what happened or you leave her and don’t. She can make these gestures, but there is nothing she can really do to make up for what happened…. The other thing that is clear from your post is that she would not have stopped unless she got caught!! It was not exactly an accident what she was doing. She wanted to do it, but she just didn’t want to get caught.

 

Finally – what is it about people in relationships where some people just don’t ever think about cheating and others have a roving eye? It could just be that she is naturally unfaithful, and that is what many other posters have said. But it could also be that you are just not ringing her bells like you used to. Sorry to be frank about it….. It could be that she is just not seeing you as high value enough. My ex-GF described me as “safe and secure”, which sounded more like an insurance policy than a romantic relationship.

 

Anyway… hope this helps. Just know that you are not alone out there. Many guys have similar experiences all across the world…. And exercise well – it will make you look better, feel better and think better.

 

Good luck.

 

James.

[James-London]

ps. i would also try to drill down into the reasons why all this happened. again - you need to know if you will have any chance of staying together. and if you don't, then it will help your healing process. i would just find it hard to believe that it was simply all about her childhood or stupidity etc., and nothing to do with how she views you.... What she said about not feeling pretty is important. Why was that?

 

pps. finally, be strategic about the "punishments" I talk about in the last post. If you do too little it will teach her that it is is all OK. If you do too much, she will just feel that nothing would ever be good enough to win you back.

 

ppps. above all, you need to be in self-protection mode (and protection for your kids). Do not move heaven and hell to try to win this person back. She does not deserve that. And emotionally detach yourself from the idea that you two "need" to be together.... just a thought - what do other girls out there think about you...

[james1989]

Judging by your posts your wife wanted to be lead in the marriage and not be the leader she wanted some alpha co*k and when you couldn't provide it she sought it from somewhere else. women want to be lead in relationships they dont want to be the leader it seems you have been too beta in your marriage and you need to up the alpha.

 

To have a good marriage you need a mixture of good alpha and good beta google athol kay and buy his book married man sex life primer it goes in to more detail about this kind of stuff.

 

Oh and judging by the fact that you have admitted that your wife is quite submissive i would be stunned if they did not fu*k in your bed. get rid of the bed.

[aliveagain]

Friend, your best predictor of your future together is to look at your history. Had you not caught her she'd still be leaving the kids with her mom while she's spread out on his office desk. Worse yet, this guy would be cleaning up in your shower before he goes home to his wife while your children are sleeping in the next room. Is there anything she can do that would make you mad enough to protect yourself from another cuckolding? Is she that great a prize that you would rather share her with other men than loose her? What are the chances you'll be posting about this same issue 3 years from now? Being alone is way better than this, sharing your wife with strangers is much worse than surviving a divorce.

 

When she shows you who she really is you need to start believing her or your the fool. Take a break from her, have her move in with her parents while you decide what's best for you and your children. She will do everything she can to make you believe that your life will be better with her in it, how's it looking so far? Talk to a lawyer and don't have unprotected sex with her without a full set of tests for all STD's. If this was a friends life what would you advise him to do?

Edited August 17, 2014 by aliveagain

[Catfish]

Betrayed,

 

If the OM was a Supervisor at your Wife's work. It sounds like this was an affair for HIS BENEFIT. It's SEXUAL HARASSMENT. Go see an ATTY ASAP. Make the employer pay for this conduct. He used his POSITION and AUTHORITY to make YOUR WIFE his CONCUBINE!

 

MAKE THEM PAY.....

 

Watch your Wife's reaction to this. This will tell you much.

[betrayedandhurting]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

To those who default to "she cheated 2.5 years and did this before... Divorce her!" that is very valid and smart advice, but you guys are also right... I came here looking to see if ANYONE thought my marriage could be saved and my mental health restored based on my particular situation. For those who posted their sincere thoughts about how bleak my situation is but were willing to explore my possible options other than instant divorce like James-London... I thank you.

 

Look I *get it* my wife is seriously ****ed up. This is NOT my fault, I know that. I'm not ugly, I provide and I know how to screw so something is going on with her. I agree with those who say she must have felt like I wasn't doing it for her. I agree she prefers "alpha" behavior and I was passive in many things. Still not my fault, still not wrong, but it's true. The other guy in her mind was "alpha" his nature at the job is all about that, just like mine, but my wife only sees how I am with her at home and kids and I have suburban Dad. For 9 years now our focus has been the kids and we stopped "dating" and although we shared a close relationship yeah it more like a friendly, comfortable partnership raising kids with some benefits on the side. It wasn't about US. That isn't just my fault it was hers too... she never complained to me, but in hindsight I wasn't 100% happy but I sure as hell didn't cheat!

 

I've made it very clear I haven't committed to reconciliation and she knows I am continuing to talk with the divorce lawyer and obviously she is freaking out. I have laid down the rules that although tomorrow isn't guaranteed, it is a guarantee if she makes one single false move there will never even be an option to fix anything. I've made it clear besides her vile behavior that I expect how she handles our relationship to be different including me leading this family and her accepting my choices and wants. I know you'll all say that my very act of still being with her is "beta" behavior but let me say I have been agressive on what I want physically and emotionally and she is 100% behind what I want and you can tell she "likes it."

 

As for my bed. That was removed and torn up, I have a new bedroom set, mattress, sheets you name it. No damn way I was going to sleep on that again. Her rings were removed and now she is wearing a simple band. She will never wear that engagement ring and eternity band again.

[James-London]

I do agree with the above posters. I really don't think this woman deserves this guy. And it is also true that I cannot imagine how the relationship could ever be functional again knowing what she did. And the fact that she would have carried on if she did not get caught is also what happened to me, and it speaks volumes.

 

However, this guy is feeling angry and emotional right now. If he simply throws her out the door without a word then he will miss out on the opportunity to find out things later on. It would not be good if he is sitting at home in 1, 3, 10 years time and wondering - what if this, or i wonder if that? Analysing stuff like that is only natural. What he still does not really understand is - why did she need someone else to make her feel chased and pretty?

 

The other point is that he needs to think about how the divorce is going to play out. If it is clear that she acted outrageously to a judge, then this could be in his favour. The other point is that everyone who knows them will be judgmental about this. If I was him, I would think about which friends he wanted to keep, and make sure that the story that comes out makes him look good and her look bad..... Also, he should think now about if he wants to get back at the other guy and how to do it. Obviously, he should not do anything immoral/illegal, but he should consider what to say and how...

 

I do not disagree with advice from the above. I would just say that he needs to be "boxing clever" right now.... perhaps even let the wife think he is coming round to forgiving her. He needs to be clear about what his needs and priorities are. And he needs to realise that he and his wife are not on the same team anymore, despite what she would have him believe.

 

.... also - this woman will always be a part of his life by virtue of the children. the wife can take all the blame, but in after some time, she will stop apologising and give up trying to win him back. she will move on eventually. it is important to think about what to tell the kids and how they will understand this.

 

finally, regardless of what he and his wife would want - neither can undo what has happened. it seems that she was not in love with the other guy, but that means she was just not satisfied with our airline captain here. Sounds to me like she did love him and felt secure with him, but there was just not the romantic spark that there used to be.... she was not feeling chased/feeling pretty by him. But why? Sounds to me like she was not really waiting for him to chase. Sounds like that is a role that she did not need or want him to fulfil. His job was basically - the guy that earns the money and father to the kids.

[betrayedandhurting]

And yes, the sliver of hope I have and that has me still contemplating if I should try to save the marriage vs instant divorce is the theory that a long hidden personality trait of low self-esteem, a need for validation, and an ability to compartmentalize combined with a good but stale marriage where even I thought the sex and romance wasn't what it should be for a very long time added up to this. Not my fault, still not acceptable but a "reason" no matter how thin it is. What keeps me going another day is wondering if counseling can help my wife's depression and self esteem issues while we work to correct (not to just keep her from cheating but because I want this) our physical and emotional intimacy issues that came about after kids if it will result in a good marriage without betrayal.

[betrayedandhurting]

. it seems that she was not in love with the other guy, but that means she was just not satisfied with our airline captain here. Sounds to me like she did love him and felt secure with him, but there was just not the romantic spark that there used to be.... she was not feeling chased/feeling pretty by him. But why? Sounds to me like she was not really waiting for him to chase. Sounds like that is a role that she did not need or want him to fulfil. His job was basically - the guy that earns the money and father to the kids.

 

Look you guys will crucify me saying I'm blaming myself but it's true I did stop chasing. Sure I bought the flowers on V-day and said I love you everyday but we went out on a "date" once every few months and at night or an overnight... barely once a year? Sex was twice a week, always good but "the same"... It's true. She never complained about any of this and shares the blame but I wasn't happy about it either... I just saw it as a phase of our lives and didn't do what my wife did. Isn't it possible that with counseling for her weakness, better boundaries and a rejuvenated relationship aside from our kids (again not to "keep her" but because it's the right thing to do and would make me happy too) that there is hope?

[TobyBoy]

Do you have any deal-breakers? What if you were to find out that your WW had many ONS's during all your relationship? Would it matter?

 

Tell your wife this. "I've scheduled a polygraph for you to take so I can feel safe that you have told me the truth"

 

If she agrees, follow through. If she confesses more indiscretions, follow through also.

 

Prepare for the worse.

[Catfish]

The OM was an Alpha Male Authority figure at her workplace. You related that he was always making comments to the other females and was "nice" to your wife.

 

He pursued and groomed her for his benefit. She was weak and he is a Predator.

 

He will continue and probably is doing this to OTHER WOMEN.

 

His actions will cost you your Marriage and THOUSANDS of Dollars. He should pay for this.

 

An Alpha Male would bring the OM to his knees and end his Bad Behavior. It would also restore your Confidence knowing that you can have a positive effect on the situation.

 

if this were an affair outside the Workplace it would be different.

 

This largely happened in HIS OFFICE. Big Difference.

[james1989]

Look you guys will crucify me saying I'm blaming myself but it's true I did stop chasing. Sure I bought the flowers on V-day and said I love you everyday but we went out on a "date" once every few months and at night or an overnight... barely once a year? Sex was twice a week, always good but "the same"... It's true. She never complained about any of this and shares the blame but I wasn't happy about it either... I just saw it as a phase of our lives and didn't do what my wife did. Isn't it possible that with counseling for her weakness, better boundaries and a rejuvenated relationship aside from our kids (again not to "keep her" but because it's the right thing to do and would make me happy too) that there is hope?

 

your wifes actions arent a result of you not bringing her out on dates did the other guy bring her out on dates???? no all he did was fu*k her.

 

Sorry you are going through this but if it was me i would divorce her this is her second time she has done this she clearly has zero respect for you. ****ing another man in your home is almost like an act of war. i know you say it will hurt you financially but can you really put a price on self respect??

[betrayedandhurting]

It's not what you think, he wasn't her supervisor. Without saying her job take my situation. I'm an airline Captain, I fly the plane, but I also oversee a team of very varied workers from ramp, ops, dispatch, cabin crew etc. to help get my job done. My wife was like one of those teams and he was like the Captain. He was mean to everyone but her and even then she said he was a little mean. The office of his was not their primary place of work but a getaway area he has at the workplace that gave them privacy. She emphasized she was taken by his aggressive pursuit, I doubt she ever experienced that before, remember we were childhood friends that began dating early in college and it was a friends turned boyfriend/girlfriend thing, I don't think she ever got the hard sell in bar etc.

Edited August 17, 2014 by betrayedandhurting

[james1989]

Its got nothing to do with him or you being alpha at your jobs

 

he made her feel lusted after and you didnt. you seem like the type of guy who would make love she wanted to be fu*ked and she got the best of both worlds.

[Catfish]

It doesn't have to be her Supervisor just an Authority figure in the Workplace. He used his Private Work area to have the affair. Company assets, the Office, were used for the Affair.

 

At a minimum I would report his Conduct to the Company's HR and the CEO Directly. THE OM WILL CONTINUE TO DO THIS TO OTHERS. He will destroy more women and their Marriages.

 

I'm sure he aggressively pursued your Wife. She is probably not his first and only Partner. Hence, her statement that he didn't want to talk about Spouses. He is a Pro at this.

 

If as a Captain you tried this Conduct with any of the lower ranked Team Members you would be liable for Sexual Harassment.

 

Just ask anyone. Google it.

[James-London]

i think its helpful to distinguish between a "reason" and a "justification". Its good you recognise that the sex/romance between you and her hidden personality traits are not justifications. But I'm not convinced they are reasons either, at least not the full reasons.

 

To be blunt - she knew what she was doing, she knew it was wrong, and she wanted to do it. she is as guilty as a puppy still next to a pile of poo (Blackadder reference). If she respected you, and if you were enough for her, then she just would not have been doing this.

 

another useful distinction is "respect" and "love". I am sure she loves you as the father of her children, the breadwinner, even as a friend. But she does not see you as a lover, you maybe were ringing her bells once, but not now. So, she does not respect you in that sense.

 

Whose fault is it that you don't turn her on in this way? Well, nobodies fault in the end. Possibly, you just grew apart, possibly you were too beta (as others have said), possibly you were away from home too much. Maybe she really tried to fancy you more but she was not feeling it. She ended up with you because you were the first guy who swept her off her feet, she liked the look of you at the time, and she was too submissive to date other guys before settling down with you.... you can debate these things until the cows come home. end of the day - there were probably lots of reasons why she cheated. But the way she perceived you, thought about you was very much at the heart of this...

 

if I were in your shoes, I would just try to get to bottom of what she really felt about you. Did she ever feel guilty during/after those sessions? Did she ever consider stopping or try to? Did she ever consider leaving you? If not, why not?.... If it turns out that the spark has just gone, then you need to accept it. At least you will know the truth. or maybe she was just bored/frustrated with her own life and this was an escape?

 

finally, if she is prepared to mess over the other guy for you (and do it without flinching), then at least you know that it was just something physical with no emotions attached.... Unless she was really unhappy with her lot in life, then it basically all points to her dissatisfaction with you as the reason this happened.

[james1989]

It's not what you think, he wasn't her supervisor. Without saying her job take my situation. I'm an airline Captain, I fly the plane, but I also oversee a team of very varied workers from ramp, ops, dispatch, cabin crew etc. to help get my job done. My wife was like one of those teams and he was like the Captain. He was mean to everyone but her and even then she said he was a little mean. The office of his was not their primary place of work but a getaway area he has at the workplace that gave them privacy. She emphasized she was taken by his aggressive pursuit, I doubt she ever experienced that before, remember we were childhood friends that began dating early in college and it was a friends turned boyfriend/girlfriend thing, I don't think she ever got the hard sell in bar etc.

 

there are other guys out there just like him what's gonna happen when she meets another one of them????

she will do this again and again and again until YOU change your behaviour and take the lead in this marriage, she wants an alpha male, start taking charge and become the captain in the marriage not the first officer

Edited August 17, 2014 by james1989
punctuation

[betrayedandhurting]

James I agree 150%. My wife was the ONLY part of my life I was a pushover and doormat because I thought that is the sensitive way to treat a woman. It was a mistake in particular because I trend to a very type A personality and surpressed this. The only problem I have here is an alpha male would kick her ass out so my very keeping her around is weak looking but my messages and actions toward her now remain clear and aggressive in all ways and she is responding. Very positively.

[Catfish]

there are other guys out there just like him what's gonna happen when she meets another one of them????

she will do this again and again and again until YOU change your behaviour and take the lead in this marriage, she wants an alpha male, start taking charge and become the captain in the marriage not the first officer

 

I agree with James. She needs a Penalty and new BOUNDARIES. Also, she needs to stand up with Betrayed and give the OM a Penalty. If she does this it will show remorse and a desire to reconcile.

 

She will have respect for Betrayed for the way he will have handed this situation.

[James-London]

i would not be "aggressive" per se. That is actually not alpha at all. I would just show a lack of emotional dependence on her and how that you don't *need* the relationship to work out. remember she can't really make it better without a time machine, so gratuitously telling her off could just be counter-productive.

 

maybe you were just in the rhythm of the marriage and it was a bit routine. But if she was content with you then that kind of routine would have been fine for her. Women look around for a mate and then all dream of settling down and raising a family. you were not doing anything wrong by your lack of romance or even alpha style - you were just thinking (with good reason) that she had settled with you.

 

you were totally wrong in this. she was not settled. She was looking around at other guys. You only know about 2. But you can bet she at least considered it with more guys. this "aggressive pursuit" from her boss/colleague does not show that he was great at getting women or just happened to push her buttons.... If she was satisfied with you, then it would not matter about his aggressive pursuit.

 

also, if you were doing specific things wrong in the relationship, then what exactly did she do in 2 years to improve things?? nothing.... i just don't think she was into you enough. her boss was just the guy in the right place at the right time.

[james1989]

James I agree 150%. My wife was the ONLY part of my life I was a pushover and doormat because I thought that is the sensitive way to treat a woman. It was a mistake in particular because I trend to a very type A personality and surpressed this. The only problem I have here is an alpha male would kick her ass out so my very keeping her around is weak looking but my messages and actions toward her now remain clear and aggressive in all ways and she is responding. Very positively.

 

I thought that as well but i swallowed the red pill of truth and it looks like you have as well but unfortunately you learned the hard way.

 

I wouldn't necessarily say staying with her is weak but make sure she believes you are not fu*king around with the threat of divorce make her believe you could leave at any second.

 

Like i said in another post i strongly recommend you buy a book by a man called athol kay its called Married man sex life primer and also i would recommend No more mr nice guy by robert glover But the main book for you is MMSLP

Edited August 17, 2014 by james1989
addd