Wife wants me to leave home and child and separate

[beatcuff]

OP, i have been following this thread and keep coming back to:

 

... My wife of 8 years told me 7 months ago that she was done with our marriage.

 

all this noise about did she or not have an A is irrelevant to you. she has left emotionally. now the ball is in your court ----

 

Should I leave and give her break. Should I do the 180? Could I do that at home?

 

do NOT leave the family home. doing so in many USA courts, even if you are in the right, will constitute abandonment. you stay until ordered by a judge. and that means you MUST seek an attorney TODAY. not to start the D but to get local advice on what to expect, every locale is different.

 

yes do the '180' and yes it can be done while at home, in fact it is preferred (so she can see it). 180 serves two purposes: once she sees you are moving forward without her, it may reignite the fire for you: 'he's not a chump';

 

second it will get you started towards your separate life. simple steps: go to the gym or go on walks, join an organization, join a sports TEAM (as in hockey, basketball, soccer, softball: there are old man leagues everywhere) you will meet so many people. start calling your buddies.

 

it will be a struggle at first and there will be days you have multiple invites and then nothing for weeks. but once you get in the 'habit' it will become you.

 

good luck.

[atreides]

beatcliff has a point.... i only think knowing or acknowledging it as an affair... and this is if geddy wants to try to salvage something... which is what he has written a few times...is very important for reconciling it. i would rather and try and help that side... but it may be all for not.... he does need to take control either way.

[Owl]

Geddy,

 

What is your goal? What outcome do you want out of all of this...what is it that you want to try to make happen?

 

You seem to be doing what your wife wants, but you don't seem to be doing what YOU want.

 

Here's my last bit of advice for you.

 

Pick a goal.

Come up with a plan to reach your goal.

Implement your plan.

Tweak your plan as needed along the way.

Work your plan until you reach your goal.

 

I don't care if your goal is divorce, reconciliation...it's not my life, and I have no vested interest in the outcome either way.

 

All I can suggest to you is that if you don't make up your own mind, make your own decisions, and work towards whatever outcome YOU want...you're probably not going to be happy with whatever that outcome is.

 

Up to you...that's the best advice I got for you.

[Chi townD]

I would NOT move out. Courts can view that as you abandoning the home. If she wants out, then she needs to be the one to leave.

 

 

Talk to a lawyer and know your rights.

[Geddy Lee]

I know I sound confusing. My goal is NOT to leave my 6 year old daughter without her dad. My goal is to win my wife back. My goal is to have her say she has feelings for me again. It would seem like a miracle is needed but I think it's possible, especially since before we married we split for a while. My goal is to have her tell me she wants to work on our marriage again. It's that simple.

 

I know most say that's pathetic. I'm tough enough to handle that criticism. I'm not trying to whine.

 

The most confusing part of all this is the only way it's possible for any of this to happen is to let it go! It's so counterintuitive. It makes no sense but it does. It's like a trick.

 

Make no mistake, I didn't satisfy my wife's needs. After reading Women's Infidelity I know more about women's needs. She turned 35 when all of this finally came to the forefront. But I should have known I needed to fix it before it came to this point. I tried hard as I could by working to death and serving her and my family but she wanted more. It's so confusing because as she was wanting to be loved and needing intimacy she acted indifferent. I thought she didn't want anything more. She thought I didn't even want her. I guess you can say I was content with staying in my own little world but she apparently is not. She said she only has one life and she's going to change it.. I know I sound like I'm justifying this whole situation. I just want to fix it, that's all.

 

So this is why I'm not giving up. I'm not seeking revenge. I'm not worried about losing the house, custody, or any awful divorce type issues. I'm not worried about being accused of abandonment.

 

The reason I am so back and forth is still the same. Should I stay or should I go. I'm going for the best odds. I understand men need a backbone. I read through the 180's and stages of Limbo every day. I've read and read and read. I understand I can't keep talking to her about this and that it won't help. Fellini makes the most sense when he says let it go and tell her to figure it out and let me know when you do. With our child I'll still have contact but I can keep that to parent information and school and stuff.

[atreides]

Then that was my point, it would help to know the reason for her behavior such as an affair, which it is with thousands of texts and sexting. That means in order to try and win her back no matter how pathetic or hopeless many will say it is. That is your goal and put everything you have behind it and approach it the best way in treating someone who is on a chemical high of an affair. You cannot combat something with the wrong weapons.

 

To use your words "make no mistake" you are not the reason she is/was having an affair... make no mistake!

 

Do you actually think that we all don't falter or miss the needs of our spouses from time to time? You are essentially saying that because we cannot be in the case of your wife all that she imagines, it gives her license to cheat you. NO! Infidelity has nothing to do with marital problems, it is a separate animal. The second you realize you are not to blame, is the second you start winning the battle to get her back.

 

That means taking control, doing the 180, setting what needs to be done according to you, so that she earns her way back. If you pander, you will not win her back. I do not know of one story on LS where pandering won the day, quite the opposite.

 

There are many with great advise when it comes to try and R with a cheating spouse, listen to them. Stay firm with your goal of winning her back and remind posters and you will need to, trust me.. that your goal is to win her back and need advise accordingly.

 

First thing first, you should not ever consider moving out.

 

You say you have tried the 180, i do not understand... you talk with her about your plan? That is why it wont work. The 180 is for you alone and sure every case is unique, but you don't share you plan with your wayward spouse. Separation is giving her license to further leave you... if you don't believe me, just read stories here on LS.

 

Fellini was 6 months out from his D-day having his W with no contact to her AP for that period of time, she was the opposite in fear that he would leave. This is not your case. Right now your wife has the control where as it was Fellini who took control with his separation as it was what he wanted.

 

On the other hand, Some file for D and it shocks the wayward spouse (even though the betrayed spouse has every intention to stay, they use it as leverage and shock value); moreover, the betrayed spouse sets the demands, such as with your wife... no 3 months, it is here and now or we divorce to solve our problems as an example. You have to have transparency of her phone and computer, social and such.

 

You are hoping that with separation and you moving out that she will go into shock, when in reality she has a chemical affair high. Why would your wife who is texting thousands of texts and keeping her phone secret from you have any reason to ponder "i should stay with my husband" when she is getting fed everything she wants to her from whomever is on the other end of that text message? Then have the liberty to explore it further by getting physical... and why because you are not there, you gave her the freedom... you let her go. This is the opposite of what you want. I would just hate to read 3 months from now, that you post, all is over, as she has some other guy and the 3 months she needed were never to think about you in your absence but her building another relationship. You will then have to answer to the courts on why you moved out and so on in hopes of some good turn out with your child.

 

In the end you may not win, but at least fight as that is your goal. Many of us will have different opinions. Just remember we only post because we care... most of us that is.

Edited July 30, 2014 by atreides

[Geddy Lee]

The plan we agreed on was the separation, I thought it was a trial but maybe more appropriately called a structured separation, and we set some ground rules. I have not discussed anything else about 180 with her.

[CarrieT]

But what is this "structured separation" other than allowing her to go out and have her cake with the possibility of being able to return with no repercussions?

 

This is that lack of a back-bone we want you to grow...

[Owl]

The plan we agreed on was the separation, I thought it was a trial but maybe more appropriately called a structured separation, and we set some ground rules. I have not discussed anything else about 180 with her.

 

You don't discuss the 180 with her. The whole point of it is to pull away from her...to create a gap between the two of you...that YOU created, not her...that she doesn't understand and eventually chooses to close on her own.

 

Atriedes is right. The only way to 'win her back' is to stop letting her control the whole situation.

 

Women cannot respect a man that they can control, one that they can treat like a doormat, one that accepts disrespect from others...including her.

 

And...women cannot maintain romantic love for a man that she cannot respect.

 

Stop letting her control the situation.

 

Tell her that you're not going to play her game anymore. If she wants to leave you...then she can leave the house...without your daughter...and the two of you can move to divorce. Then she can text whomever she wants, do whatever she wants, live whatever life she wants...without further hurting you or your daughter.

 

YOU aren't going anywhere, and you're no longer going to let her decide YOUR fate.

 

If she wants to stay...then she needs to agree to work on the marriage with you. That would entail:

 

1. Open book access to all of her communications with other men. Cell/text/IM/email/whatever. She gives you passwords to everything.

 

2. She no longer engages in activities that are clearly against the best interests of your marriage...such as these communications.

 

3. She agrees to attend marriage counseling with you, and will follow whatever appropriate plans the MC recommends to the both of you.

 

4. Whatever else you personally think is appropriate to your situation.

 

If she refuses, if she balks...stay calm, and let her know that this is her choice. Either divorce, or working on the marriage. You're not going to remain in her life as her friend, her 'seperated husband', or anything less than her full husband and partner.

 

Set a SHORT timeline for her to make up he mind. Like by Friday. By then, she either commits to the marriage, or commits to the divorce and begins moving out.

 

Even if you divorce...that does not mean that you will lose your daughter. Especially not if you're smart enough not to leave the house first.

 

SIMULTANTEOUSLY TO ALL OF THIS...contact a lawyer, and learn about legal seperation and divorce laws in your state. Don't tell her you're doing this...just do it. Set it up so that you know everything you need to know to ensure that you can take care of you and your daughter legally...and be ready to pull the trigger pre-emptively if that's needed.

 

The person who has the most control in this situation is the person who is not afraid to lose the other. That's why your wife is dictating things right now...because you're more afraid of losing her than she is of losing you. Put an end to that nonsense now. Man up...you won't die if the two of you divorce.

[Geddy Lee]

No, I have not discussed the 180. Yes, I have been trying it. That was a miscommunication. I only discussed the plan for us to separate. She agreed to it. I thought the point was to agree on something. The plan included we weren't seeing anyone else. I figured what do I have to loose. I understand the chance that she could cheat but she can now if she wants to. She may be just holding back because I'm here and not wanting me to bust her, but maybe she really doesn't have one in waiting at this time. Again, there are kids and young adult at our home so if I'm gone she won't have one over every night. I may just have it all put in writing so I won't affect my best interests.

 

I finally went ahead and called and emailed a lawyer. I'm waiting for a reply. I'm not doing anything until I hear from him. I'll continue to keep updated.

[atreides]

No, I have not discussed the 180. Yes, I have been trying it. That was a miscommunication. I only discussed the plan for us to separate. She agreed to it. I thought the point was to agree on something. The plan included we weren't seeing anyone else. I figured what do I have to loose. I understand the chance that she could cheat but she can now if she wants to. She may be just holding back because I'm here and not wanting me to bust her, but maybe she really doesn't have one in waiting at this time. Again, there are kids and young adult at our home so if I'm gone she won't have one over every night. I may just have it all put in writing so I won't affect my best interests.

 

I finally went ahead and called and emailed a lawyer. I'm waiting for a reply. I'm not doing anything until I hear from him. I'll continue to keep updated.

 

great to hear you are going to talk to a lawyer. the only thing with your plan is enforcement... being separated... if you think kids being at home stop affairs... you need to read some more LS stories.

again glad to see you are going to get lawyer.

keep us updated

[10thengineerharrison]

I understand what you mean. I read in Women's Infidelity that I need to let her know 100% that if she's guilty then I would be able to forgive her, she just needs to tell the truth to move on. I was just giving her the opportunity to let go of it all. I felt one thing that's holding her back is the guilt. But she's holding strong. I agree that the last resort is now to move on myself, I see that. I just thought that the structured separation may be a good way to begin that process and give her the space to think clearly.

 

I feel like there's no where else to go with my actions and feelings. I appreciate your all's generous time. I am thankful for that. I'll look into support now for how to handle separation and children. I think that's really what the next step is. Thanks so much.

 

Forgiveness is not for now. First, she needs to confess to whatever it is she feels guilty about. Second, she needs to stop doing whatever it is she feels guilty about. Don't promise forgiveness for something you don't even know about. That's nothing shy of giving her permission to do whatever she feels like doing "because he'll forgive me, no matter what."

 

All the signs of an affair are here, right under your nose. Cheaters are world-class conflict avoiders, so her loneliness and wanting you to leave announcements are indications that she's trying to rationalize something she's already doing, by getting her desired reaction to her trickle truth and sidestepping.

 

There's nothing here to save, if you don't save yourself first.

 

-10th Engineer Harrison

[fellini]

 

First thing first, you should not ever consider moving out.

 

You say you have tried the 180, i do not understand... you talk with her about your plan? That is why it wont work. The 180 is for you alone and sure every case is unique, but you don't share you plan with your wayward spouse. Separation is giving her license to further leave you... if you don't believe me, just read stories here on LS.

 

Fellini was 6 months out from his D-day having his W with no contact to her AP for that period of time, she was the opposite in fear that he would leave. This is not your case. Right now your wife has the control where as it was Fellini who took control with his separation as it was what he wanted.

 

 

First of all Geddy, probably you have actually done the reading on what is a "structured separation", because the others clearly still have not, doing a "structured separation" does NOT MEAN you have MOVED OUT. I knew a couple that handled a 3 month SS that switched into a 1 year with MC in which a small flat was rented near the family home and the parents did the work of moving around, not the kids. You don't MOVE OUT. Moving out is moving on. As you know a SS is not about moving on, its about trying to stay IN. And yes, it might be counterintuitive that one has to sleep outside the home in order to do this. You are dead on about this: Your wife has a phone and she can use it all day long while you are at work, while you are with the kids while you are asleep while you are in the toilet. This has nothing to do with where you lay your head.

 

You will quickly find out that the laws about abandonment have NOTHING to do with your conducting a structured separation. We have the same kinds of laws where I live and abandonment is ABANDONMENT.

 

Look, your wife says weeks are not enough, maybe months. The thing is, this is all in her head. If a SS does what it is supposed to do, it won't take 3 months before the two of you know what each other want, and are prepared to do.

 

 

Fellini was 6 months out from his D-day having his

W

with no contact to her AP for that period of time, she was the opposite in fear that he would leave. This is not your case. Right now your wife has the control where as it was Fellini who took control with his separation as it was what he wanted.

 

This kind of crap is getting tiresome in LS. Here is the thing. People in here have been trying to say my "case" is different. I have even been ridiculed by some "the perfect WS", and im used to that. Im used to people in LS not respecting my own pain, my own A. I have even been told 3 times that I deserved to be cheated on: by Betrayed spouses. Im done with this approach in LS.

 

My case is VERY VERY DIFFERENT INDEED:

 

My wife of 17 years feel in love with a co-worker, and after 8 months began having sexual intercourse with him in his private studio while I was at home taking care of our 8 year

old

daughter.

 

I found out, she threw him under the bus, and we began our journey through recover and reconciliation.

 

As you can see, my case is so far off the scale one wonders why I even bother trying to seek advice from the LS community.

 

 

The thing is, Atreides is completely wrong. My structured separation that came 8 months after DDAy was simply when we finally did the SS. I knew by week 2 that we needed one because my WS was so head over heals in love with her AP that her being around me trying to rescue me from PTSD simply allowed her to avoid dealing with her own emotional web from having been in two relationships. What's the point of NC if all you are going to do is compartamentalize an emotional attachment somewhere while you focus on getting your family back on track? This is basically what she did. Her AP was a single divorce BS. So he knew the game he was playing and how to wait it out. He even tried R with his own WW during a year, in house, while she continued to maintain contact with her AP. Of course it failed.

 

I asked for a SS after 2 months, I didn't get her agreement. I tried again two months later, still too much fear. During all this time I worked on ME, not being afraid to leave the marriage.

 

If this is true, "The 180 is for you alone and sure every case is unique" The same can be said about SS. My greatest dilemna dealing with my WS has, is, and will continue to be seeing through what is REAL and what has been achieved through strategies like the "180". To put it simple. On DDAY when I asked WS if she was ready to end it with AP, after a few hours of leaving her alone, she said YES. The problem later became, "Yes, but why yes?". Of course I thought it was about LOVE. But that seems to have been less the truth than that it was PANIC. Panic that now that the A was out, that it would move to being PUBLIC, that she would have to face her colleagues, her students (she is a university prof.) her family, our friends. IN other words, she threw AP under the bus to save her arse, not to save "me". To save, as Women's Infidelity books put it, "her image as a perfect, married wife". So I have become hypersensitive to issues that are getting resolved because I am demanding it, and she complies simply to please me, vs. her actually changing her view of herself, our marriage, and especially ME. I want and need to know that she is still in this with ME, not just in it for the sake of the "marriage". I have told her as recently as a couple of weeks ago: "I get the impression you want to save the marriage, but you would rather HE was in MY place. And of course, that our daughter would accept that" But that is never going to happen. And a SS is one strategy for finding out and distinguishing between being in a marriage, and being married to a specific person, and being happy with that.

 

I get you about the child. I love my now 10 year old daughter more than life itself. We are as thick as thieves. Her mother, in fact, on DDAY knew, and said that if we were going to separate, that I would remain in the house with the child because our relationship was a whole lot better and more important for her stability than the mother. And she was right. But she has used our R time to reconnect with our daughter and now if we separate the issue is going to have to come down to agreements. 50/50

 

My strongest advice to you: YES, get your legal understandings in order.

Clear up the abandonment issues now. Get that structured separation. Get an apartment nearby. There are more souls involved than your joint child, I get it, there are two others, and probably your S will need to be the one to keep the house and its contents, the kids, together. But you are not relegated to PTA meetings and after 4 contact. THAT IS COMPLETELY UP TO YOU. Nothing in your post indicates your S is trying to use the kids to get you to leave! She probably sees the huge issue with being burdened with kids if you do! If all she wanted to do was to spread her wings she would be the one leaving the nest, but clearly she is not going to walk out on her three children to do so.

 

You need to get out because your staying is merely showing your S that no decision needs to be made. She needs to know what LIFE will really really be like without you around the house. My WS needed that, and she also needed to deal with the POS AP that she had in her head and kept there. She needed to deal with HIM, not ME. I was fine. It was her that needed treatment.

 

And it is exactly the same in your case. You are not the problem, she is the one that wants out. You already know what you want to work on. She doesn't know if she even wants to try.

 

Good luck with it.

Edited July 31, 2014 by fellini

[fellini]

But what is this "structured separation" other than allowing her to go out and have her cake with the possibility of being able to return with no repercussions?

 

This is that lack of a back-bone we want you to grow...

 

There is more lack of back-bone in hanging around a house with a S who would rather be connecting with a stranger 1000 miles away than with the man she said yes to at the alter.

 

If two people draw up a structured separation and in that agree to NC with people not friends of the marriage. Then that is the commitment they need to follow. If either of the two end up breaking that commitment, then the structured separation has achieved success: one of the partners isn't committed to the other nor able to stick to their own agreements.

 

If two people agree to a structured separation, and the S with the wandering issues achieves the goal of NC with anyone not a friend of the marriage, then the structured separation has been a success.

 

The danger with this OP is that he has an outcome in mind that he WANTS to occur. And this is his Achilles Heal. She wants to manipulate him to go so she can see if she wants to explore, and he wants to manipulate her to stop.

 

Neither of these two are going to achieve their goals through manipulation if what they do has ONLY ONE ACCEPTABLE outcome.

 

I don't want my wife to want me back because I manipulated a situation leaving her with only one REAL OPTION.

 

The problem in LS is that BS's take the high moral ground, and thus believe that they can view their WS's as children who need to be controlled. But we already know you cannot control anyone.

 

If the only reason NOT to do a SS is because you think she will cake eat, then you have missed the point entirely of what is the real outcome of a damaged matrimony.

 

She has to fear EQUALLY that he will take her desire to separate further, and he has to fear EQUALLY that she might use this time to explore other men.

If they both agree not to do that, then they are behaving like adults.

 

The only question is do they want to continue to LIVE like adults.

[atreides]

Fellini, i commend you, we even had great discussions on other threads. I know many did not like how you R'd where i thought it was great.

 

While i got the months wrong (I just used 6 months from your post), my point is that the OP's W wants out, where you organized the separation. I take issue with the OP's wife initiating it vs the OP. That is how i understand the difference between your story whether you tried SS 2 weeks post D-day to where it was actually 8 months.

 

In my book who initiates it is the key if an affair is going on. Now if there were not and affair, then SS could take place anytime and be initiated by either party similar to a couple i know, but they had an amicable inhouse separation.

But it is a huge deal in my book that your wife kept saying no... where Geddy's wife is ready to further get it involved the A with her idea of separation. LS usually but not always has two types of WS, those that wakeup right away from the shock of exposure and may falter later with NC and those that just are so deep in the A, they keep going and a wakeup call like a D and such did the trick or the BS took control with total transparency and counseling the WS followed the rules and were verified.

 

I would like for the OP to win his W back, but when she initiated separation and now the OP has agreed, this worries me for the OP.

 

Now, i get your point, SS will produce a result, but a risky one as you said... IMO... Infidelity is an addiction, you don't let an alcoholic give you their word that they will stop drinking, you intervene. Sure, she will break NC and break their rules and bam, SS was a success, it produced a result one the OP does not want.

Addicts need intervention and even at that the success rate of intervention vs none while not great outweighs the latter.

Now LS in most stories i have read where intervention and control was taken by the BS, the R was successful. You actually took control in my opinion, your wife did not want to separate as you stated, thus the wakeup call.

 

What you call "manipulation" is a very different thing than intervening to break the addiction. Now if there was no affair, SS is exactly what the OP needs in my opinion but there is an affair.

 

I would hate to think my father thought i was "manipulating" him with his addiction or my in-laws. In my book had the OP initiated and not his wife, then i would tend to agree, he has the upper hand and control. However, SS is her idea and enables her, enables the addict. Yes they are adults, but adults falter and can become addicts (act like children) and there is a moral high ground, thus in most cases need help, because after all control is what helps them get back to "stop acting like children."

 

Now let me end with this, Geddy can lay down the law... but he cannot control her answer, however if she agrees, he can also verify her word.

Thus if Geddy's wife really wants to stick with him then she can agree to his terms, that is what this is about. Her idea of separation is the affair calling and nothing more. On the other hand Geddy should not agree to her terms, only his.

I mean she basically says, "i want to separate for 3 months" Geddy responds "ok but if we do we cant do x,y,z" she responds, "i can't talk to my guy friends" really...? This is manipulation and control of Geddy on her part.

 

I get the point, the SS is to cake eat, because she initiated it. Geddy should state his terms and he will get the answer right there, why delay it? I get it what you did, you wanted your wife to come back to you on her own, but if i may add, she already wanted to stay with you by not agreeing to separation at first and SS for you in my opinion was your verification of her first intent. Geddy's wife does not have the fear of separating as it again is her idea. The only thing she fears is Geddy ending it before 3 months as he states which means getting her ducks in a row... at least in my opinion.

 

As for him leaving, it is not abandonment but about custody. I have seen too many courts rule in favor of the spouse at home with the kids vs the one moving out because of the established action of the one who left as usually the "established" setting the spouse did through hasty or planned action is what is looked at. At least for the many cases i have seen.

Edited July 31, 2014 by atreides

[fellini]

In my book who initiates it is the key if an affair is going on. Now if there were not and affair, then SS could take place anytime and be initiated by either party similar to a couple i know, but they had an amicable inhouse separation.

 

I beg to differ, and I believe the difference is nuanced, but nonetheless fundamental.

 

Read over the OP's posts, and you will see two things:

 

His wife wanted to SEPARATE FROM HIM ((Ending their marital ties and going their separate ways without moving on divorce just yet) 7 months ago. This is what we mean, normally, when we say to our friends, "I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but we have decided to separate." Yes, the Wife initiated THAT.

 

After discussing his problem here on LS, the OP INITIATED the idea of doing a "Structured Separation" and it seems to me, based on some scant information, that he understood that because he talked about the parameters of that.

 

So I have to disagree with your entire argument that the wife is the only one here who is talking separation.

 

The fact is this wife has told her husband, in her own words, "I'm no longer attracted to you, I'm no longer in love with you."

 

You think he should fight for his wife because of the feelings HE HAS for her. But that is completely immature.

 

His only hope to win his wife back is IF his WIFE is in Affair FOG (big if) and IF she wakes up when she realises she is about to lose something she hasn't taken into full consideration. He cannot make this happen. It has to happen inside her.

 

And he has his own work to do, by his OWN ADMISSION, he wasn't there for her, he worked, he allowed their marriage to turn into nothing more than roommates, and now, only now that she is saying what basically as adults they should BOTH be saying, is that this mediocre marriage has no vitality for either of us, let's end it.

 

So he wants one more go at it. And my question to him would be, based on my own WS's desire to leave:

 

WHY? Why do you want to suddenly recover and make spectacular something you settled on as mediocre.

Are you sure you want her back or is it that she said it's over and is already looking outwards that has him grasping at something he didn't want as much as he should.

 

In the end, at least someone in LS has to say what obviously very few want to say: Maybe your wife truly never really loved you as you thought, and in spite of your genuine or panicked feelings for her today, your marriage is not worth saving.

 

Only the OP can know this. But he also needs to know what is really going on in his wife's head, and not respecting her saying, "I'm DONE!", and arrogantly assigning that as nothing more than fog is potentially disasterous, IMHO.

[atreides]

Ok

 

So anyway after begging she basically allowed me to stick around and things were ok.

 

I finally agreed to leave temporarily but it will strain us financially

 

 

This clearly states that before he was to leave but she allowed him to stay. Then he agrees to her terms... but later states perhaps 2 weeks.

 

 

She said that she definitely wants me to leave eventually. She says for like 3 months. She said she wishes that somehow that might let her develop some kind of feelings again for me.

 

3 months, her terms.

 

Fellini, I had actually brought up the structured separation to her and that's what she wanted to do. I'll have to try the best I can to separate, get myself out of Limbo somehow, and then see if after 3 months we could do better

 

This is response to what you gave him in advise, your solution.

 

 

 

So I have to disagree with your entire argument that the wife is the only one here who is talking separation.

 

Seems that way to me... i re-read and gave the quotes. Talking yes, who initiated? That is the key. Who is holding the keys... he is the one begging, not her.

 

The fact is this wife has told her husband, in her own words, "I'm no longer attracted to you, I'm no longer in love with you."

 

You think he should fight for his wife because of the feelings HE HAS for her. But that is completely immature.

 

 

If i had a penny from every time a cheater said that, i would be rich. Also the infamous "i love you but not in that way, or i love you but not in love with you" LS is full of WS that state the exact same thing. Some were able to reconcile. From our differing opinions, it is the result that matters in reaching Geddy's goal..

 

 

His only hope to win his wife back is IF his WIFE is in Affair FOG (big if) and IF she wakes up when she realises she is about to lose something she hasn't taken into full consideration. He cannot make this happen. It has to happen inside her.

 

i agree totally except, again lots of LS stories an from my own experiences that when the BS took control, set and enforced the guidelines that it worked.

 

And he has his own work to do, by his OWN ADMISSION, he wasn't there for her, he worked, he allowed their marriage to turn into nothing more than roommates, and now, only now that she is saying what basically as adults they should BOTH be saying, is that this mediocre marriage has no vitality for either of us, let's end it.

 

Marital problems do not equal infidelity which in my opinion is occurring.

 

 

In the end, at least someone in LS has to say what obviously very few want to say: Maybe your wife truly never really loved you as you thought, and in spite of your genuine or panicked feelings for her today, your marriage is not worth saving.

 

This is a good point, i used to post very similar but realized many BS wanted to try to fix it and why not? That is what they want, whom am i to counter and say "it's over dude" (which i did do), i would rather try and help the goal and fight even if it ends for not.

 

My point to an affair whether EA or more is the 1000's of texts, sexting and etc...

Edited July 31, 2014 by atreides

[Geddy Lee]

I see both sides and appreciate that. I have more faith in giving her what she wants, as in some sort of separation, at this time. And that is just my gut feeling. Obviously it's nothing personal between the two viewpoints and I do appreciate the time and thought put into this. The support is helping me cope and probably others someday. I understand the risk but if I am to really let it go, I don't think I can, while sitting in the house like a bump on a log. We get along fine, ironically better now that we've pretty much come to the agreement about things NOT working out. She's made a conscious effort a time or two to let me know where she's going , like she wants to prove she's not in an A, and paranoid that I accused her of it, and not really texting so much at this time. Although who really can say if that's relevant. Could be fake.

 

The reason may be subtle. I don't believe there is a full fledged AP at this moment. Sure there are endless possibilities.

 

Legal issues aside, I believe by granting her what she wants, that shows I'm willing to let it go. By defying her request that seems to only have the chance of creating more resentment.

 

That is what I feel right now. Maybe that will change. The truth is I do not want to leave and maybe I'm trying to psyche myself up for it.

 

I have a weird feeling I can't ride this storm out and wait. She's been waiting for months, years.

 

So the only way that I can see to really find out if we really truely want each other is to see what it's like without each other ...

 

It's the hardest thing to do, to not try as hard as you can to win back something you want so bad and that person tells you she's done, all the time still being nice and friendly and beautiful to you but yet so distant.

[atreides]

Thanks for the update Geddy, please keep us updated. We have all given our opinions...dime-a-dozen... i truly hope it works out for you.

[Geddy Lee]

Edit:

7 months ago...

She says she's done. I beg. She says she'll think about it. But I may have to eventually leave. I stay. Things are ok...

 

Fast forward... Now,

I blow up over texts. She freaks out. She says nothings changed and she's done (again). I beg. She says "maybe" and when I say maybe, like "I don't think so but I want to try to be sure" . . Maybe if we split up she could develop feelings that she's lost......

I said 2 weeks, she said no that's pointless, three months. I wrote some things down that we could agree on. That is where we are now. I'm sleeping on the couch and everything is effectively groovy right now.

 

I am just lost when it comes to separation and setting a date to come back? Or do you separate and work on ourselves and see what happens. Then after 3 months talk about it.

[fellini]

Edit:

7 months ago...

She says she's done. I beg. She says she'll think about it. But I may have to eventually leave. I stay. Things are ok...

 

Fast forward... Now,

I blow up over texts. She freaks out. She says nothings changed and she's done (again). I beg. She says "maybe" and when I say maybe, like "I don't think so but I want to try to be sure" . . Maybe if we split up she could develop feelings that she's lost......

I said 2 weeks, she said no that's pointless, three months. I wrote some things down that we could agree on. That is where we are now. I'm sleeping on the couch and everything is effectively groovy right now.

 

I am just lost when it comes to separation and setting a date to come back? Or do you separate and work on ourselves and see what happens. Then after 3 months talk about it.

 

Well the idea of a structured separation is not NC like you were her AP. The idea is to create some time in a neutral space to talk about what's going on during the process. Not everyday, just build in some time. It's part of the process. Structured Separation is not a disappearing act.

 

Nothing that is decided is the end of the world. Really. You will both be happy if in the end each of you decides to do what you want to do, and do it for the right reasons. If that means you both decide to give the marriage another go, great. If not, at least you end the stalemate, and can begin to heal and grow again.

 

Good luck GL. It's a bumpy road ahead no question.

[atreides]

Edit:

7 months ago...

She says she's done. I beg. She says she'll think about it. But I may have to eventually leave. I stay. Things are ok...

 

Fast forward... Now,

I blow up over texts. She freaks out. She says nothings changed and she's done (again). I beg. She says "maybe" and when I say maybe, like "I don't think so but I want to try to be sure" . . Maybe if we split up she could develop feelings that she's lost......

I said 2 weeks, she said no that's pointless, three months. I wrote some things down that we could agree on. That is where we are now. I'm sleeping on the couch and everything is effectively groovy right now.

 

I am just lost when it comes to separation and setting a date to come back? Or do you separate and work on ourselves and see what happens. Then after 3 months talk about it.

 

So in both cases she wants a separate time, you agree to shorter and she wants longer. You catch her doing affair crap.... she responds ... nothing has changed.... that to me is cheater speak

 

I am not for separation, i think it is not wise in your case. Why not get firmer and say, no separation... it is time to fix it now or we go our separate ways. Either way you will get an answer... the separation will almost certainly give you the answer no, but it will be a torturous 3 months for you just to hear that and see she is with one of the men on the other side of the sexting.

 

I honestly do not see a point to separating... you are hoping time alone will be your salvation or separate time with unenforceable rules.... i just don't see that. Force it now, you need an answer, tell her you want to work on it and these are the guidelines she has to follow... she cheated, no way around it... secret phones sexting, call her on it even more.

 

Look others will say, the SS will give you the answer, it most certainly will... i am trying to get you to play the odds. I think you have a better chance at saving this without separating but it is your choice.

 

You should also always work on you, no matter what happens... always work on you.

 

Do your list in what you will change and want, with separation out of it and see what she says.. just as an option. Think about how you could fix things without SS and present that. She will have to drop the secret phone thing and the sexting texting though.

 

It is your call, just my opinon

Edited July 31, 2014 by atreides

[fellini]

Force it now, you need an answer, tell her you want to work on it and these are the guidelines she has to follow... she cheated, no way around it...

 

No question, this will definitely solve your impasse. Probably not in the way you suspected. But it will definitely solve your impasse, and she will get precisely what she wants: a separation created by you because you decided what the options were and forced her to choose one. That's a great way to get a marriage back on the right track.

It's mind boggling how little faith people can have in the productive activity called giving "space".

 

It's true, you can threaten her with either do it "my way" (my conditions, my requirements and my solutions) or we can divorce.

 

Or you can be an adult and treat her with respect, and show her you can handle whatever it is she is going through right now that has her in this impasse.

[atreides]

No question, this will definitely solve your impasse. Probably not in the way you suspected. But it will definitely solve your impasse, and she will get precisely what she wants: a separation created by you because you decided what the options were and forced her to choose one. That's a great way to get a marriage back on the right track.

It's mind boggling how little faith people can have in the productive activity called giving "space".

 

It's true, you can threaten her with either do it "my way" (my conditions, my requirements and my solutions) or we can divorce.

 

Or you can be an adult and treat her with respect, and show her you can handle whatever it is she is going through right now that has her in this impasse.

 

 

Really? if there was not an affair involved i would agree whole heatedly. I asked him to make a list where there was no separation, something she can choose to do or not. Right now he is choosing what she wants, how does that help? Having him wait 3 months is just flat torture to an answer he could get sooner... I would hate to have him suffer that long in hopes with anxiety and such.

 

it is also "mind boggling" how many marriages were saved by being firm and how many have failed with separation on this forum and others.

 

She is not acting like an adult, . addicts never do... she violated their marriage..

i will however remember "acting like adults" with future addictions.... and see how well it works out.

 

No point in further debating.... but i think i proved my point enough in the former posts to express how to help Geddy. I wish him luck.

Edited July 31, 2014 by atreides

[FredJones80]

I know this is none of my business but I tend to agree with atreides.

 

If your wife is having an emotional or physical affair she is likely to be in the affair fog. He indecision will never end. 3 months isn't going to bring back feelings for you because they are clouded by feelings for someone else.

 

Women's Infidelity states it nicely :-

 

Stage 3 :

 

"These women are also typically in tremendous pain, the pain of choosing between their husbands and their new love interests."

 

"Many live in a state of limbo for years. “Should I stay married or should I get a divorce?” this is the question continuously on the minds of women at Stage 3 – it is also common for women at this stage to attempt to initiate a separation. In most cases, husbands of women at Stage 3, will launch futile attempts to make their wives happy by being more attentive, spending more time at home and helping out around the house. Regardless of women’s past and present complaints, the last thing women at Stage 3 want, is to spend more time with their husbands. The reason many women will give for their desire to separate is a “search for self.” They convince their husbands that they might be able to save their marriage if they can just have time to themselves. They tell their husbands that time apart is the only hope of improving their current situation. Women at this stage want to free themselves of the restrictions of marriage and spend more time with their lovers. Most think that eventually their confusion will disappear. They think they will eventually know with certainty whether they want to stay married or get divorced and be with their lovers."

 

In my own case with not a wife but my long term partner (11 years) I gave her a week space, at the end of the week she said she needed more time. I told her no more time and that was the end of our relationship. However it does fall in line with the above quote. She will be indecisive indefinitely.