Lies Male Virgins / Inexperienced Guys are told

[alwayshere]

I don't want to live in a world where advising people to lie is a key marketing tool.

Edited June 16, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[snowflakepua]

Because I have lived through it and come out the other end. I also have spoken to many other guys who were in similar situations and moved through it. That's what makes me knowledgeable.

 

It is totally funny. So many women here are bent out of shape out of me recommending that guys tell one small white lie to enormously help them in their success with women and their is widespread condemnation. Yet many women on this and other discussion boards devoted to love and relationships advise each other to lie about embarrassing sexual episodes in their past or at the very least not to mention it. We are talking about MAJOR things, like the girl used to be a stripper, was a total and utter slut or even was an escort. So why the double standard? Women lie to men about their sexual history or at the very least don't mention certain things. I see absolutely NO reason why a guy wouldn't lie about something that would only cause the woman to leave in a hurry. A girl's health won't be negatively affected by sleeping with a virgin. A guy's health may be affected if he sleeps with a huge slut. So which is the worse lie?

 

 

What makes you the authority on all of this? Is it because you are full of mastery?

[snowflakepua]

So Phoe,

 

How many late 20s+ virgins have you slept with? How many have your friends slept with?

 

Perhaps you are OK with this, but the majority of women are not.

 

Welp. Another one of these threads.

 

And here's me, AGAIN, saying that I've been with more virgins than non-virgins, and the ones who weren't virgins had only been with 1 other.

 

 

What does that mean? I'M TOTALLY FINE WITH VIRGINS, and have a preference for men that have not been with many women.

 

 

Nothing can kill my attraction faster than a man who has slept around a lot. Yuck.

[CrystalCastles]

So Phoe,

 

How many late 20s+ virgins have you slept with? How many have your friends slept with?

 

Perhaps you are OK with this, but the majority of women are not.

 

Well, I'm not Phoe but I'd like to answer this too. The virgin guy I'm seeing will be 25 in a few months. I had a huge crush on a 27 year old virgin last year. Before that, I had a huge crush on a 24 year old virgin.

 

So if a woman really likes a man, she generally does not care whether he is a virgin or not.

[gaius]

There aren't a ton of older male virgins who are seriously working to lose their virginity so taking a hand count of the women here isn't going to do you much good. It's like asking who's slept with someone from Micronesia. Doesn't mean micronesian men don't get laid because not many hands go up.

 

The girl I lost my virginity to knew I was a virgin while she wasn't and I haven't pretended I've banged 1000 women with the others since. And they still dripped all over me with anticipation. If you need to lie because your ashamed and need to keep your ego in tact then that's one thing, but you can get laid being an older virgin as long as it doesn't bother you. Others can but you couldn't.

 

Must have been a bit awkward after she thought you were a don juan and it turned out you were like a virgin in bed.

[ThaWholigan]

Never had to lie about my inexperience in the end. I thought about it, but I decided being comfortable with it was the best option. It was harder, admittedly. But it was worth it. I managed to find girls who didn't care about my inexperience. Both of whom I was sexual with - hours after I met them.

 

I had less pressure on myself to perform like a man with "experience", I just had fun with it. I got better at talking with women in general and relating to add to that. Generally, I was open. Worked for me.

 

And I'm as awkward as f*ck at times, being autistic. I'm no casanova . But I am a late-bloomer and I managed to deal with it without being ashamed about it in the end.

[somedude81]

Well, I'm not Phoe but I'd like to answer this too. The virgin guy I'm seeing will be 25 in a few months. I had a huge crush on a 27 year old virgin last year. Before that, I had a huge crush on a 24 year old virgin.

 

So if a woman really likes a man, she generally does not care whether he is a virgin or not.

 

How did you know these guys were virgins? When did you find out? Did you ever sleep with those guys?

[CrystalCastles]

How did you know these guys were virgins? When did you find out? Did you ever sleep with those guys?

 

I found out about it because they started off as my friends before I developed feelings for them and we shared that kind of personal info (I highly doubt they lied about it). I mean, whatever, they were single, I was single, it wasn't like anyone was breaking any boundaries. No, I didn't sleep with them, I am a virgin also.

 

They were socially awkward and very shy around girls. The 27-yr old I'm still very close friends with. He's still single, still having problems finding the right girl. Both those guys were/are very sweet, very genuinely nice people.

 

The only guy whose status I'm guessing is the guy I'm seeing right now. And that is based on the relationship history, or lack of it, that he's told me. And no, he doesn't do casual sex/FWB arrangements.

Edited June 17, 2014 by CrystalCastles

[Andy_K]

PUA posts always get a harsh reception, but the reality is that there's cold truth and logic behind his assertions and mostly emotional knee jerks behind many responses.

 

All generalisations break down eventually (this one included), that doesn't make them useless. Take the basic premises (be fitter, have a decent job, try new things) and do them in your own way, however fits your moral compass. There's exactly as much evil here as you decide you want to see. No more, no less.

 

Whilst I don't advocate lying, I'd suggest most male virgins at least try to avoid the topic of past experience until they have some.

[alwayshere]

PUA posts always get a harsh reception, but the reality is that there's cold truth and logic behind his assertions and mostly emotional knee jerks behind many responses.

 

All generalisations break down eventually (this one included), that doesn't make them useless. Take the basic premises (be fitter, have a decent job, try new things) and do them in your own way, however fits your moral compass. There's exactly as much evil here as you decide you want to see. No more, no less.

 

Whilst I don't advocate lying, I'd suggest most male virgins at least try to avoid the topic of past experience until they have some.

 

What you said about making the most of what you have is not PUA; it's common sense.

 

PUA is a gimmick that people like Viper: http://images5.fanpop.com/image/polls/962000/962069_1330276950404_full.jpg

 

peddle because they were losers who learned to play women like objects, and they want to teach other losers to play women like objects. They are not about relationships; they are about bedpost notches. What an inspiration.

 

And lying about who you are or aren't, to me, just means you'll lie whenever it suits you. Not the kind of man I'd want MY daughter anywhere near.

[dragon_fly_7]

And lying about who you are or aren't, to me, just means you'll lie whenever it suits you. Not the kind of man I'd want MY daughter anywhere near.

Yeah, if they can make up a lie of sleeping around (when he's really a virgin), what else are they not going to lie about?? What's next, making up a lie about being a business owner when you're not or that you were very a great basketball player in HS??

 

Wow, I'm amazed how far these losers can go through to get a relationship.

 

Besides that I'm still not convinced the ''Oh I've been around the block (when you're an older virgin)'' would work out if the woman was very experienced. Either she already was suspecting but doesn't care or she would be able to tell but again is perhaps playing along and doesn't mind.

Edited June 17, 2014 by dragon_fly_7

[alwayshere]

Anyone who can actually succeed with women just by following a cheesy, contrived list had potential anyway; they just needed confidence.

 

What they need is not a list of how to play or trick women. What they need is confidence plus character - THAT will get them into an actual relationship with some depth.

 

Of course, a lot of these guys are so jaded they don't care about character, depth, or relationships. They just want to get perpetual revenge on the queen bee who rejected them in junior high.

[dragon_fly_7]

Anyone who can actually succeed with women just by following a cheesy, contrived list had potential anyway; they just needed confidence.

You know this reminds me of the female version of a Spanish tevenovela called Sonadoras (Dreamers) played back in 1999, in which a shy HS girl in her last year was having bad luck because she supposely thought she wasn't cute, along with the awkward way she would both walk and talk.

 

Anyways her friends decided to have her braces and glasses taken off, teach her how to walk right and gave her a different outfit. She goes on pretending to be another girl with a different name when she comes back to get revenge on two guys. Then off course some guys went crazy for her when she came back. And no one recognized it was her lol...oh boy. Only in soap operas would that happened.

 

Similarly, that girl already had the potential (and looks) to attract guys but simply needed confidence and just basic improvement.

 

It just shows that anyone (man or woman) can apply cheesy lines/changes as long as they have that hidden potential already. This off course wouldn't work out with someone that doesn't have it at all. Like this is really gonna work on the very shy ones, as if they're going to change right on the following day....lol

Edited June 17, 2014 by dragon_fly_7

[Els]

The oldest virgin I've been with was 19 at the time (because I've not dated anyone new since 21). A close friend of mine is marrying a 30-yo virgin guy, though, and a few of my platonic guy friends are virgins too, in their mid-late twenties.

 

It's probably less common in America I wager. But yes, like gaius says, it doesn't mean anything if fewer women have dated them. There are plenty of women who are okay with it, but those guys just didn't happen to come around.

[Glinda.Good]

If you're a salesman, you can make a sale or a couple by lying about what you're offering.

 

I don't think that many lifelong successful salespeople advocate doing this. It is very shortsighted.

 

That's my opinion of the advice put forth here.

 

OP, I suspect that you are a virgin and hoping to bolster yourself up with this kind of pep talk.

 

If you get a girl to sleep with you because you misrepresented yourself, maybe you will feel just great about that, having finally moved on from your troubling virgin status.

 

I hope you don't, though. I would hope that you would feel a tinge of guilt for misleading and taking advantage of another person.

 

Sex is something to be shared, not something somebody "gets" off of another person. I'm talking about ALL sex, including completely casual recreational sex. Two people coming together (heh, heh) and mutually going for it, AS THEMSELVES.

 

Any person, male or female, who starts this way is off to a GOOD start. A person who starts off lying, or as a sucker, is probably going to have plenty of issues as their life goes on.

[Targetlock]

Exactly why I'm going to keep on trying and no lie about it, would rather stay and carry the 'burden' of being a virgin than live with myself for losing it by lying, relationships are based primarily on trust anyway. the right opportunity or person simply hasn't come along i guess, just taking a lot longer than i thought

[BarackObama]

You will find your soul mate one day.

[Targetlock]

You will find your soul mate one day.

 

I hope so and she will be worth the wait

[fortyninethousand322]

Let's see.

 

1. True. Things just don't "happen" on their own. You have to make it happen.

2. True for the most part. You might meet a woman here or there who has a fetish for virgins or really inexperienced men. But overall, if you haven't even kissed before and you're closer to 30 than you are to 20, you're going to have problems. Women for the most part aren't going to be into that kind of thing. Fact.

3. True.

4. Complicated. I think women like a guy who has some kind of career and can support himself. But we're probably past the time in history in which women are all looking for some rich husband.

5. Looks matter, but not as much as you might think. I'm a total gym rat and it hasn't earned me any points with women. Not a single time.

6. Women say they don't want a man-whore, but actions speak louder than words. And I think given the choice between a guy who had been around sexually in the past and a guy who hadn't even kissed, I think most women (an overwhelming majority I'd say) would pick the experienced partner.

7. True. Niceness does not really pay off very much.

[Els]

6. Women say they don't want a man-whore, but actions speak louder than words. And I think given the choice between a guy who had been around sexually in the past and a guy who hadn't even kissed, I think most women (an overwhelming majority I'd say) would pick the experienced partner.

 

There is a HUGE spectrum between being a man-whore and not having even touched a woman, and the vast majority of men fall within that spectrum. Even if we go with your belief that most women don't like men with zero experience (as I am too lazy to argue that point right now), it doesn't mean that they are wanting man-whores either.

[gaius]

There are women out there that would pass up the in shape guy for the one with a gut, the rich dude for the poor, and the experienced for the not so much. Just like guys, women usually have a level of partner they're comfortable with. It's not always everyone trying to get the highest level person they run across.

 

I still wager the guys that have to lie are the ones who carry around a lot of shame about their virginity and can't manage to show a confident persona if she knows the truth. It's the confidence that comes from lying, not the lie itself.

[beatcuff]

i am confused, are talking only about sex or a relationship.

 

sex --- pay for an escort. it will cost about the same, you can be honest (she will direct you) and if it goes really bad you can never see her again / it was just a business transaction.

 

relationship --- it appears you are overplaying the importance of 'the act'. when you care for someone you tend to overlook a lot.

[joystickd]

The problem with this whole shaming about sex with men and women is that they let a few people affect them. They also worry about people shaming them when in reality they feel shame. Reality most people could care less

[fortyninethousand322]

There is a HUGE spectrum between being a man-whore and not having even touched a woman, and the vast majority of men fall within that spectrum. Even if we go with your belief that most women don't like men with zero experience (as I am too lazy to argue that point right now), it doesn't mean that they are wanting man-whores either.

 

I agree with that. I probably didn't do a very good job of conveying that point.

 

I guess what I meant was given the choice, it's easier to reform a "man-whore" than an inexperienced man.

[fortyninethousand322]

There are women out there that would pass up the in shape guy for the one with a gut, the rich dude for the poor, and the experienced for the not so much. Just like guys, women usually have a level of partner they're comfortable with. It's not always everyone trying to get the highest level person they run across.

 

I still wager the guys that have to lie are the ones who carry around a lot of shame about their virginity and can't manage to show a confident persona if she knows the truth. It's the confidence that comes from lying, not the lie itself.

 

I don't have any shame about that. It happens. I have shame about the fact that I've never actually kissed a girl. Or held hands with one. Almost held hands once but she pulled away quickly.