This sucks.

[dichotomy]

Wow...religious cheaters take the cake....pun intended.

 

Yes they do, but don't get ME started on that as well.

 

You May Be Surprised How Many Born-Again Christians Use Ashley Madison

[Grumpybutfun]

Hey man, it is never minor when it has to do with our children. There isn't much I wouldn't do for mine and they are all adults now. It is understandable that this feels frustrating. I have an old couch in the boathouse if you need another one to torch...just sayin'!

 

 

Never think you cant rant here, you are an amazingly insightful and astute poster. Rant all you need to.

 

 

In support,

Grumps

[drifter777]

Don't get me started.

Come on - give us a little bit! This is just too hypocritical to pass up...

[janedoe67]

I too apologize as I am not a BS, but you have been so helpful to me. You are a very good man, and your kids are lucky to have you.

[BetrayedH]

You guys are too kind, as usual.

 

Drifter, I wish I had a juicy one-liner for you. It's just not my style. I've never had any 'faith' so to speak but I know I don't have the answers either; if other people think they do, it's all good with me. That's why I really had no issue being married in the Catholic church and why I continued to agree to allow my exwife to raise the children Catholic. I take my son to his religious ed every other week. I'm confident that when he's old enough, he'll make his own choices and being exposed to religion is fine with me.

 

But yeah, sometimes it sticks in my craw. During our fake reconciliation, my wife tried to tell me that it wasn't my place to forgive her but God's. I quickly retorted that the marital contract that she broke was with me and I had every right to be damn upset about it. Before Dday, she and her family were "Eastmas" Christians - meaning they only attended mass on Christmas and Easter. After Dday, she wanted to go to Confession with her OM (seriously?) and started attending church weekly (I went, too, for the sake of supporting something that was important to her). Apparently it was ok to go through those motions but to keep lying to me about the extent of her affair. We'll disregard the need to confess to those you've wronged and just skip to the privacy of the priest. And now she and her whole family will sit in judgment of my morals whilst she is forgiven hers. I don't hold the religion responsible - the fact is that there are wacked-out people in every walk of life. And hiding behind the forgiveness of the church while using the high moral ground to judge others is really nothing new.

 

As an old friend here used to say, Piffle.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

You guys are too kind, as usual.

 

Drifter, I wish I had a juicy one-liner for you. It's just not my style. I've never had any 'faith' so to speak but I know I don't have the answers either; if other people think they do, it's all good with me. That's why I really had no issue being married in the Catholic church and why I continued to agree to allow my exwife to raise the children Catholic. I take my son to his religious ed every other week. I'm confident that when he's old enough, he'll make his own choices and being exposed to religion is fine with me.

 

But yeah, sometimes it sticks in my craw. During our fake reconciliation, my wife tried to tell me that it wasn't my place to forgive her but God's. I quickly retorted that the marital contract that she broke was with me and I had every right to be damn upset about it. Before Dday, she and her family were "Eastmas" Christians - meaning they only attended mass on Christmas and Easter. After Dday, she wanted to go to Confession with her OM (seriously?) and started attending church weekly (I went, too, for the sake of supporting something that was important to her). Apparently it was ok to go through those motions but to keep lying to me about the extent of her affair. We'll disregard the need to confess to those you've wronged and just skip to the privacy of the priest. And now she and her whole family will sit in judgment of my morals whilst she is forgiven hers. I don't hold the religion responsible - the fact is that there are wacked-out people in every walk of life. And hiding behind the forgiveness of the church while using the high moral ground to judge others is really nothing new.

 

As an old friend here used to say, Piffle.

 

I know I am on the other side of the stick so to speak but I don't have much use for religion anymore either. My kids and husband were treated badly by the pastors who were supposed to be ministering to them. I do believe some moral value can come from having kids raised in a Christian setting, but Christians do not have a lock on the market of morality - that is for certain.

 

And yes - I have seen it myself - born again Christians using the bible to beat people while hiding their own sins. I was one of them - I suppose that is the only good thing that happened from my affair - I see people so differently now. Amazing what a little humble pie will do.

[Man Mountain Makino]

I feel a need to say that, as a former betrayed spouse, this whole thing sucks. Damn it, I was a damn good husband and a damn good father and I didn't deserve this bullshi.t and neither did my kids.

It's a hard lesson in life, but while you can consistently do the right thing, it doesn't mean the other person in the relationship will do the right thing. Feeling for you, bro.

[Snowflower]

But yeah, sometimes it sticks in my craw. During our fake reconciliation, my wife tried to tell me that it wasn't my place to forgive her but God's. I quickly retorted that the marital contract that she broke was with me and I had every right to be damn upset about it. Before Dday, she and her family were "Eastmas" Christians - meaning they only attended mass on Christmas and Easter. After Dday, she wanted to go to Confession with her OM (seriously?) and started attending church weekly (I went, too, for the sake of supporting something that was important to her). Apparently it was ok to go through those motions but to keep lying to me about the extent of her affair. We'll disregard the need to confess to those you've wronged and just skip to the privacy of the priest. And now she and her whole family will sit in judgment of my morals whilst she is forgiven hers. I don't hold the religion responsible - the fact is that there are wacked-out people in every walk of life. And hiding behind the forgiveness of the church while using the high moral ground to judge others is really nothing new.

 

 

Your ex-wife apparently has a very poor understanding of her own faith. And, it is so disgusting that she wanted to go to Confession with her OM.

 

As for her and her family "judging" you for your morals-is it because you have a new relationship? And she supposedly does not? I wish I could insert enough eye-rolls :rolleyes: here but maybe I can explain it in a way that might help. Especially because you are being so awesome in having your children raised Catholic--maybe this can be useful as you help them.

 

As you probably know, Catholics consider marriage a life time commitment. Legal divorce is not really recognized so in the eyes of the Church, you and your ex are still married. Even infidelity is not a justifiable reason to divorce. Since she has supposedly (remember the eye-roll :rolleyes: thing here) stopped her adulterous ways, she can confess her sin and be absolved. IMO, she needs a lot more than confession, with a genuine apology to you first and foremost.

 

Here is the clincher, you are the "adulterous" one now since you are in an on-going relationship with your GF. Remember, you're still married as far as the Church is concerned. I know, I know, it is pretty unfair. And, I'm going on the assumption that your ex-wife is no longer seeing OM or anyone else.

 

But yeah, this situation brings up a whole host of issues. But, before you come down too hard on the Catholic Church, BH, it does try to protect marriage and by all accounts, by what you've shared here, you tried to protect your marriage too. So, in some respects you were on the same page as the Church. Anyway, maybe this knowledge will help you as your children grow up and face these issues someday.

 

As an aside, thanks for sharing a bit of your experience with the Church and your divorce. It gives me something to think about as I have grappled with some similar issues. I know you're hurting, but thank you?

Edited June 9, 2014 by Snowflower

[BetrayedH]

Your ex-wife apparently has a very poor understanding of her own faith. And, it is so disgusting that she wanted to go to Confession with her OM.

 

As for her and her family "judging" you for your morals-is it because you have a new relationship? And she supposedly does not? I wish I could insert enough eye-rolls :rolleyes: here but maybe I can explain it in a way that might help. Especially because you are being so awesome in having your children raised Catholic--maybe this can be useful as you help them.

 

As you probably know, Catholics consider marriage a life time commitment. Legal divorce is not really recognized so in the eyes of the Church, you and your ex are still married. Even infidelity is not a justifiable reason to divorce. Since she has supposedly (remember the eye-roll :rolleyes: thing here) stopped her adulterous ways, she can confess her sin and be absolved. IMO, she needs a lot more than confession, with a genuine apology to you first and foremost.

 

Here is the clincher, you are the "adulterous" one now since you are in an on-going relationship with your GF. Remember, you're still married as far as the Church is concerned. I know, I know, it is pretty unfair. And, I'm going on the assumption that your ex-wife is no longer seeing OM or anyone else.

 

But yeah, this situation brings up a whole host of issues. But, before you come down too hard on the Catholic Church, BH, it does try to protect marriage and by all accounts, by what you've shared here, you tried to protect your marriage too. So, in some respects you were on the same page as the Church. Anyway, maybe this knowledge will help you as your children grow up and face these issues someday.

 

As an aside, thanks for sharing a bit of your experience with the Church and your divorce. It gives me something to think about as I have grappled with some similar issues. I know you're hurting, but thank you?

 

As far as I am aware, adultery is the only accepted reason for divorce in the eyes of the Catholic church. I'm not personally Catholic so I could be wrong but that's my understanding and as I recall, it's also biblical (sorry I can't quote the verse but I know it's there). But, if I understand correctly, the Catholic church will not remarry someone who is divorced.

 

I think this is one of the reasons that my wife initially chose to reconcile - she really didn't have a justfied 'out' even though she was in an exit affair. But once I had my own affair, she had her justification to be done.

 

As for my wife 'not seeing anyone,' I sure doubt that. I'm sure she's getting her needs met by someone. If she cannot remarry, will she be celibate for the rest of her days? I somehow doubt that. The result is that her 'living in sin' is simply not as visible as mine because she's going to keep up a false front when it comes to the kids. It ends up being about image and perception, you know? With that family, I've had my fill of people just being concerned about image and perception. They can apparently do any manner of unrighteous crap, provided that they can keep it under wraps. None of this sounds like it's what God would really want or what Jesus would do. But as the agnostic in this situation, I'm automatically more wrong than anyone, especially since I had an affair, too.

 

Anyway, enough rambling. I just see hypocrisy there but it's really no worse than anything else in this situation. It's just something that's current when most everything else is in the past. As I've stated before, it's the inability to get away from it all that gets to me. It's one of those situations where I would just separate such a person from my life but it's just not possible and so it requires an occassional vent.

Edited June 9, 2014 by BetrayedH

[RightThere]

After Dday, she wanted to go to Confession with her OM (seriously?) and started attending church weekly .

 

Too funny. My WW and her OM would do the same. During "fake reconciliation" they would see each other at lunch. Go to confessions, cry about their "sins" together, and then still make out in the church parking lot.

 

I'm not a man of strong faith either. I choose to be able to look and myself in the mirror, live with my decisions each day, and not rely on someone else's forgiveness to make me feel more complete.

 

As far as I am aware, adultery is the only accepted reason for divorce in the eyes of the Catholic church. I'm not personally Catholic so I could be wrong but that's my understanding and as I recall, it's also biblical (sorry I can't quote the verse but I know it's there). But, if I understand correctly, the Catholic church will not remarry someone who is divorced.

 

My WW is Catholic as well. My understanding (from not reading the bible or having any first hand knowledge) is that the church does allow for divorce if there is any physical violence. Adultery is not grounds to allow for divorce. However regardless of the reasons, you cannot get remarried in the Catholic Church after being divorced. That is why all good Catholics try to get their marriages annulled so they can marry again in the Catholic church.

[96nole]

Hey BetrayedH! I haven't been here in a while. I just saw your aviatar. I LOVE IT!!! That's hilarious!

Sorry your stuck having to deal with the succubus and her hypocritical family.

 

I have a great line someone told me last year regarding religious hypocrites. He simply said, "you can lie to yourself, you can lie to your friends and family, but you can't lie to God."

 

Next time they try and pull any holier than thou bullsh*t, throw that line in their face. It'll rent space in their heads for a while.

 

And somewhere in the bible it does say adultery is grounds for divorce. But there is so much cherry picking of bible verses to suit one's own needs, I guess it doesn't matter.

[seren]

Hi Betrayed H, yes, Adultery hits us all in places we just didn't think we had places, nor that they could hurt so damned much. Things are never the same after it, how can they be? It shook my world to the core when H told me he had been unfaithful and my world has had some pretty hard core shaking moments over the years. We all think we will act in a certain way and then when it happens we realise we knew sod all about how crap it really is. For me, the worse thing has been realising that the man I love, who would jump in front of dragons for me, is the one to hurt me the most. After all this time I have healed, but the scar remains, for him, it will never heal as it is all caught up in other stuff.

 

I always think men who have been betrayed always get the crap end of the stick as they invariably lose their family life and being in their life daily. I could never understand how my second husband chose to jump out of our son's life. If your WS is being difficult regarding access, maybe a mediation meeting, where you keep away from the A stuff and concentrate on how think things should be will shift the balance of power (so to speak). Sometimes being unreasonably reasonable shows just how wrong the other is being. If that makes any sense at all.

 

My son's father went to US when my son was 7 and didn't bother with him until he was in the UK for a visit when my boy was 27, a lot of water under far too many bridges to suddenly become a Dad. My son waited for an apology, an acknowledgment, anything to show his father understood what he had done. There was nothing. Children understand and see far more than we give them credit for, it will be little consolation, but they will know you love them, want more for them and miss them. Keep reassuring of that, be there, be their safe place and rock, they will know. Of course all the words in the world cannot take away how you are feeling, get informed of your options, what you need to do to at least have more of a say in your children's lives. I wish you all the very best and happier times ahead. seren x

[merrmeade]

Some of her actions are quite clearly an attempt to piss me off. THAT is a very big problem and makes it very difficult (damn near impossible, as you say) to put the past in the past, take the higher road, and so forth. That stuff conflicts with lessons about enforcing a healthy boundary. Overall, I think I play it pretty well. But every once in a while, there's not much to do but be pissed off and move on.

 

Interesting thoughts on the change in residence. I'll give it some thought. I'm not sure that I can see a scenario where either of my kids would make such a request but perhaps when they reach their teens. I'm not sure I would support it either - she's more of a bad wife (and exwife) than she is a bad mother and I default to kids having equal time with both parents. Still, it's something I should think about.

 

Hi BH, just dropped after a bit of a hiatus and surprised at this - and touched. Dear BH. This is interesting to see you not over it, not over her. Complaining about her family as if they and their opinion matters. Hearing that she's not involved in other relationships now, is that right? Your support of her as a parent has never wavered. Admittedly, hey, I haven't seen everything or followed consistently so just tell me I'm smoking crack if this is way off somewhere - but I'm just wondering some things here and noticing how very involved you still are in each other's lives whether b/c of children or whatever. But is this really impossible you and your former wife (it's been so long I've forgotten the acronyms - FW?)? I mean, you're still talking about it, about her. Does she want to try to be trustworthy again? The false R, well, like me, maybe you invited normalcy too soon before you'd had a chance to deal with all that outrage. But now? I mean, you're my hero in some ways with your absolute, ferocious love of truth and forthrightness and, I'm sure, that could never be compromised it's so vital to your core. But is it really too late? I don't need for you to do anything, but I'm just struck after so long to feel what's under your words - how important she still is to you. So I ask, that's all. And believe me, this is not coming from someone with a romantic streak. Just asking.

[Btrade]

Read your story elsewhere and the link to her hotwife post. Curious. Married 17 years. She says loyal for only 10. Yet she mentions the OM was one year ago which would be 16 years MOL.

 

There were other OM's previous?

Did she break up with the OM? Is she alone now? Do you make sure boyfriends find her little post?

Have you moved onto a different woman?

Sorry you went thru this. Sorry for the questions.

[TrustedthenBusted]

Since being betrayed myself 5 years ago, I've watched 6 other friends' marriages dissolve ( at least partially ) over infidelity.

 

So my opinion is that just about "nobody cares" about marriage vows. This infuriates my wife every time I say it. And the fact that it infuriates HER infuriates ME.

 

Our opinions are formed by the world around us. Our experiences. And my experience tells me that most people don't give a crap about their wedding vows. Sorry to read all these stories. And even sorrier that I could easily contribute to them.

[BetrayedH]

Read your story elsewhere and the link to her hotwife post. Curious. Married 17 years. She says loyal for only 10. Yet she mentions the OM was one year ago which would be 16 years MOL.

 

There were other OM's previous?

Did she break up with the OM? Is she alone now? Do you make sure boyfriends find her little post?

Have you moved onto a different woman?

Sorry you went thru this. Sorry for the questions.

 

We were together for 16 or so years (and married for 10) when she started her affair. I'm honestly not sure if she was faithful before this OM. There may have been more. I have suspicions but no real need to know. Choosing divorce freed me from a lot of questions as they just became somewhat irrelevant. It's much different than when you're wrestling with reconciliation; during those days, knowing the truth was paramount.

 

As far as I know, the affair with the OM ended on Dday. But who knows? He was also married with children. His wife chose to reconcile for the sake of the kids and for religious reasons. As well, if my wife is to be believed, she claimed that she and the OM never intended to leave their spouses for one another. Both of them were essentially augmenting their lives as they evaluated their unhappy marriages. While there was an emotional component, it was about the excitement, sex, etc..

 

I also don't know about her dating life. During our divorce, my neighbors told me about a man staying overnight when the kids were there (after they had gone to bed). I confronted her and she claimed that it was a friend staying over to make her feel safe enough at night to sleep since she was fearful of me attacking her because of the divorce proceedings. She also claimed to have ceased doing so as she understood my concerns; I had told her I would never forgive her if anything happened to my children via some strange man at the house. Who knows what to believe?

 

She once told my mother that she'd never marry again. I think that's probably true. Frankly, I think she learned that she can't trust herself to stay faithful as her selfishness ruined a perfectly good marriage and husband. Plus, she can't marry again in the Catholic church (which is a pretty big deal in her Italian Catholic family).

 

I do have a GF and we've been seeing each other for about two years now. My exwife actually requested to meet with her and they did so about a year ago. They were amicable with one another. My exwife has since also agreed that I would have an opportunity to meet any man that would be involved with our children's lives. Appearances seem to suggest that she's remained single but honestly, I'm not watching closely. I figure she gets her needs met frequently enough. I just care about the kids. If she stays single and just fools around when the kids aren't home, so be it. This approach would also help preserve her image in front of the kids (which is supposedly pretty important to her).

 

Would I expose her past to a future BF? I honestly don't know. I tend to think not because I prefer to be uninvolved and in a healthy sense, I feel less and less of a need for any kind of revenge. I can't see myself seeking him out to expose her. That said, she somewhat routinely finds a way to get under my skin (once today, in fact). I suppose it also depends on the demeanor of the man. Ask me then (or perhaps just on a different day) and I may have a different answer. Ultimately, most of my thought processes revolve around my children and what's best for them.

 

Hope something in there is helpful.

[BetrayedH]

Since being betrayed myself 5 years ago, I've watched 6 other friends' marriages dissolve ( at least partially ) over infidelity.

 

So my opinion is that just about "nobody cares" about marriage vows. This infuriates my wife every time I say it. And the fact that it infuriates HER infuriates ME.

 

Our opinions are formed by the world around us. Our experiences. And my experience tells me that most people don't give a crap about their wedding vows. Sorry to read all these stories. And even sorrier that I could easily contribute to them.

 

Far too few people care enough about their marriage vows to stop themselves from feeding their egos with the attention of others.

 

Frankly, I think far too many people get married. It was no small thing to me. I took my time to make that decision because I knew it was a lifetime commitment. I didn't even consider divorce an option. Even after discovering the horribly disturbing truths about my wife's affair, I was loathe to give up on making my marriage work. Of course, much of that was fear, too.

 

But to your point, yeah, with nearly everyone wanting to get married and half of them divorcing, it's obvious that too many people are making a commitment they don't take seriously enough.

[Btrade]

Im glad to hear you have healed enough to have a relationship. I read some of the thread. Rough read.

 

I thought about posting "This wife was caught 8 months later and was divorced over it" in the comments section. Decided not to. Too valuable as evidence to point to people on the fence over having an affair.

[BetrayedH]

Im glad to hear you have healed enough to have a relationship. I read some of the thread. Rough read.

 

I thought about posting "This wife was caught 8 months later and was divorced over it" in the comments section. Decided not to. Too valuable as evidence to point to people on the fence over having an affair.

 

The first month or so in my new relationship was kinda rough. She was ridiculously understanding and straight up volunteered transparency and even cc'd me on NC emails to a couple guys she'd recently dated. Still, I found myself with thoughts of tracking her to see if she was going where she said, etc.. But I made a very conscious decision to stop that crap dead in its tracks. It's one thing to track a wayward spouse that's volunteering it; it's something else to do it with a new GF. Besides that, she simply wasn't the woman that had done this to me. The combination of her transparency and my commitment to rid myself of hypervigilance did the trick. It's not to say that we don't have our problems but they are different.

 

As for the website, I have also been tempted to leave comments or to email the webmaster. They should know that they're participants in destroying real-life families. I enjoy porn but their site is straight-up filth.

[ComingInHot]

Betrayed H, First off a big HELLO again! Second, yep the whole d@mn thin still can suck, even this many years later. Second, Pleeese tell me you are having way more BETTER days at this point?!?! You so deserve it.

CIH*

[BetrayedH]

Betrayed H, First off a big HELLO again! Second, yep the whole d@mn thin still can suck, even this many years later. Second, Pleeese tell me you are having way more BETTER days at this point?!?! You so deserve it.

CIH*

 

(BH waves a big hello).

 

And yeah, doing fine. My biggest challenges are financial. Exwife only gets to irritate me from time to time. I'm on the cusp of finding out about a new job (a good one) so you can keep you fingers crossed for me.

 

Hope you're doing well. Time for an update.

[jnel921]

BH, you're right. It does suck. For me it sucked the first time in my first M, then again in my second M. Both times I felt like... WTF did I do to you good lord to deserve this.

 

Then it hit me...the consequence... It made me stronger, it made me a better person. It made me someone who will not tolerate any kind of BS. Because I know my self worth and if you want me you need to prove you are worthy.

 

But most importantly, I loved someone bigger, better and more worthy of my respect....ME!!!

 

You BH are a better person to have lived it, survived it and are here to share your experiences and advice. Great things are coming your way BH... believe that!

[BetrayedH]

BH, you're right. It does suck. For me it sucked the first time in my first M, then again in my second M. Both times I felt like... WTF did I do to you good lord to deserve this.

 

Then it hit me...the consequence... It made me stronger, it made me a better person. It made me someone who will not tolerate any kind of BS. Because I know my self worth and if you want me you need to prove you are worthy.

 

But most importantly, I loved someone bigger, better and more worthy of my respect....ME!!!

 

You BH are a better person to have lived it, survived it and are here to share your experiences and advice. Great things are coming your way BH... believe that!

 

I hear you. And I'm grateful for the perspective. Reading your post, my first instinct was that perhaps I'm just not there yet. In some ways, I still feel like I have a bruised ego. The rejection took a toll on me. I sometimes feel like I have an excessive need to be desired.

 

But at the same time, I feel like I liked who I was before the affair and I like eho I am now. I don't doubt my own worth; I just feel like I got royally screwed and I can't do a damn thing about it.

 

I'm obviously all over the map. I still don't have all the answers. Blech.

[Furious]

I hear you. And I'm grateful for the perspective. Reading your post, my first instinct was that perhaps I'm just not there yet. In some ways, I still feel like I have a bruised ego. The rejection took a toll on me. I sometimes feel like I have an excessive need to be desired.

 

But at the same time, I feel like I liked who I was before the affair and I like eho I am now. I don't doubt my own worth; I just feel like I got royally screwed and I can't do a damn thing about it.

 

I'm obviously all over the map. I still don't have all the answers. Blech.

 

 

It's been awhile BH...

 

I get what you're saying...the person you were before is the same person you are today..except for the scars that take time to heal.

 

It's a journey to get back to the before and yet it's not the same. I get it.

[jnel921]

I hear you. And I'm grateful for the perspective. Reading your post, my first instinct was that perhaps I'm just not there yet. In some ways, I still feel like I have a bruised ego. The rejection took a toll on me. I sometimes feel like I have an excessive need to be desired.

 

But at the same time, I feel like I liked who I was before the affair and I like eho I am now. I don't doubt my own worth; I just feel like I got royally screwed and I can't do a damn thing about it.

 

I'm obviously all over the map. I still don't have all the answers. Blech.

 

Believe me I understand the ego. I remember thinking way back when the first time around to myself... What!!! how can he do this to me... I am such a beautiful woman. She has got nothing on me.

 

But you know what.. I think that unfortunately in the case of our WS who have had great people in their lives just lack true appreciation and respect. This is where they screw up and take us for granted.

 

It's strange because they must have really thought they were prizes in our eyes or maybe someone else's. Little did they know we were the hidden treasures.

 

Sooner or later they want it back. You made a great choice. She'll never play with your jewels again! lol

Edited September 19, 2014 by jnel921