Who Doesn't Want Kids?

[Leigh 87]

I think a lot of decent folk say that. And they mean it at the time too.

 

 

 

He simply doesn't want them ENOUGH to have them on low incomes.

 

So...... I don't think I will be put in that situation where we were both on low incomes and he says " I want to be a father"

 

I have explained that U love him enough to have his child if we are BOTH on average incomes.

 

He is like.... dead against deliberately having a low income child. He DOES NOT judge people who do it, but he would personally HATE that lifestyle.

 

My bf and I grew up with plenty of things... we were taken overseas, we never had to worry about where the next meal was coming from.

 

We just hate the notion of having a child and, as a direct result, have to skip a meal occasionally, or live on bake beans noodles and frozen veg.

 

On a low income, especially when both parties earn a low income, we WOULD literally not know where the next meal was coming from.

 

He is strongly against having a child if we aren't able to provide for it.

 

He only has urges to be a dad if he can provide a NICE life for a child, take it on an overseas holiday once in its lifetime.....

[readynow]

I'm sorry Leigh, I just have to ask...

 

You said mid-way in the thread, 'I HATE kids and I hate the idea of having them' Then you said you would have kids if the income allowed. How could you even consider having kids if you hate them?

 

Also, you said mid-way that kids would never be the centre of your universe just like that poster that spoke about travelling with his kid - a few pages ago, you then said as your first line that your kids would be the centre of your universe... Which is it?

 

To state my position, I think people who don't want kids must not have kids. They take over everything! If you would rather travel the world and help others than have kids, please do just that if it'll make you happy. We are all selfish whether we decide to have kids or not - we all do what makes US happy.

 

To add my own experience, I grew up in that 3rd world you described in an affluent family. I saw that suffering and poverty as we were driven to school every day and no, it didn't make me not want kids or give all my money to charity - not very selfless probably.

 

Now though, I live in the 1st world, on a slightly below average wage but work hard so I have bought my own little house, car and live comfortably. I even go on an overseas holiday - with my child - twice a year as well as short haul long weekends several times a year. I even give regularly to charity and volunteer 4hrs a week at my local food bank / soup kitchen.

 

I said all that to say this - you don't need to be swimming in millions to do the things you want to do, neither do you have to forgo one for the other. Your list of things you would like to do are very few, botox included. Easily achievable if you remain focused and work hard.

 

What you must do though is decide what you want out of life and work towards it, remembering to be flexible and human all the way there.

[Leigh 87]

If I could earn an average wage, or even a slightly bellow average wage, AND I could have a child and STILL travel overseas...

 

I would have a child.

 

I don't hate kids, I meant I HATE the idea of having a child if it meant I would stay poor and never be able to do things, for myself and for others in need.

[pink_sugar]

My bf wants to wait 5 or 6 years minimum. Before even thinking about it.

 

We were both set back in life due to things that happened to us in our past. This has directly affected our financial situations.

I will be early 30's when I get my first full time professional job, if I am lucky, and no savings (sorry I am spending my college job funds on travel).

 

Social Workers - Job Outlook

 

 

I agree with this. Even if I was financially stable right now at 25, I am still not emotionally ready for kids. I want to enjoy myself and my marriage and fulfill my wants and desires before 30. It's likely I'll be over 30 by the time I start a family. Like you, my husband and I had major financial setbacks within the last year, so there definitely will not be any kids for us within the next 5 years.

[Leigh 87]

I agree with this. Even if I was financially stable right now at 25, I am still not emotionally ready for kids. I want to enjoy myself and my marriage and fulfill my wants and desires before 30. It's likely I'll be over 30 by the time I start a family. Like you, my husband and I had major financial setbacks within the last year, so there definitely will not be any kids for us within the next 5 years.

 

 

 

Sorry to hear about your financial setbacks. And you BOTH have degrees and professionals jobs and you are STILL not nearly ready.

 

See my point? I will be 31 when I graduate. There is frankly, no hope of having children for me.

 

It will be a miracle if I can have kids without hovering above the poverty line.

 

I will be on a low wage or MAYBE get an average wage job by MID 30's at best.

 

I would love kids but not enough to have them when I am on a low income.

 

My actual field is NOT low income where I live but ANY new graduate has to start at the bottom, and pretty much be poor for a good few years after graduating.

[pink_sugar]

Sorry to hear about your financial setbacks. And you BOTH have degrees and professionals jobs and you are STILL not nearly ready.

 

See my point? I will be 31 when I graduate. There is frankly, no hope of having children for me.

 

It will be a miracle if I can have kids without hovering above the poverty line.

 

I will be on a low wage or MAYBE get an average wage job by MID 30's at best.

 

I would love kids but not enough to have them when I am on a low income.

 

My actual field is NOT low income where I live but ANY new graduate has to start at the bottom, and pretty much be poor for a good few years after graduating.

 

I hear you. My husband is almost 31 and just graduated last year. He's accepted the fact he will be close to 40 by the time we start a family. He's still not making much money and we don't want to be parents in poverty either. I'm lucky to have a few years experience in a decent paying field, but I'd like to spend several years growing in a company and have career stability before considering kids.

[Leigh 87]

I hear you. My husband is almost 31 and just graduated last year. He's accepted the fact he will be close to 40 by the time we start a family. He's still not making much money and we don't want to be parents in poverty either. I'm lucky to have a few years experience in a decent paying field, but I'd like to spend several years growing in a company and have career stability before considering kids.

 

 

 

I will be in your husband's position. Graduate at 31 ish.

 

I would have to work for at least 8 years to be ready to support a kid.

 

my partner won't have a decent paying job either. We will both be on low incomes.

 

I have a lot of chance for career progression but 65 K after about 10 years working is likely as good as it gets for me.

 

I just feel like if we had a child we would be in poverty. Based on my predicament. .

 

What do you think, pink sugar?

 

Do you think there is a high chanc wwe will be in poverty if we have kids when I am 38, if I were to graduate at age 31???? And have a partner on a low income?

[thefooloftheyear]

I will be in your husband's position. Graduate at 31 ish.

 

I would have to work for at least 8 years to be ready to support a kid.

 

my partner won't have a decent paying job either. We will both be on low incomes.

 

I have a lot of chance for career progression but 65 K after about 10 years working is likely as good as it gets for me.

 

I just feel like if we had a child we would be in poverty. Based on my predicament. .

 

What do you think, pink sugar?

 

Do you think there is a high chanc wwe will be in poverty if we have kids when I am 38, if I were to graduate at age 31???? And have a partner on a low income?

 

 

I went from penniless to a millionaire in less than 7 years...All without any help from anyone..While I have confidence in myself I wouldnt have imagined in a million years how my life/situation turned around..Point is, you have no idea where your life is going..Your career, your partner, your life,...NOTHING is guaranteed or certain..

 

.If you are so certain of the future-let me know what the lottery numbers are....

 

Dont let what you think will happen dictate your actions...It could wind up being a "self-fulfilling prophecy"..if you let this mindset dominate your thoughts..

 

TFY

Edited April 24, 2014 by thefooloftheyear

[Leigh 87]

I went from penniless to a millionaire in less than 7 years...All without any help from anyone..While I have confidence in myself I wouldnt have imagined in a million years how my life/situation turned around..Point is, you have no idea where your life is going..Your career, your partner, your life,...NOTHING is guaranteed or certain..

 

.If you are so certain of the future-let me know what the lottery numbers are....

 

Dont let what you think will happen dictate your actions...It could wind up being a "self-fulfilling prophecy"..if you let this mindset dominate your thoughts..

 

TFY

 

 

 

Wow, well that is impressive. Congrats! Much respect...

 

But I am not innovative or business minded! I hate business! I mean, I LOVE other peoples businesses, LOLZ, but I myself am just not business minded. My ideal job would be to be a humanitarian but hey, we can't jist quit our day jobs and do what we want for a living.

I may be doing a social work degree but that doesn't mean I cant come up with any ... dare I say, home business ideas, to do with something I really like. Me and my partner can open a café, who knows what the future holds.

 

Right now a social work degree and then a masters in HR are on the cards for me.

 

 

 

 

 

ONE THING I know: I am not having kids if I am minimum wage, and my partner is minimum or average wage.

 

Period.

 

I have made this known to the current partner and he seems very comfortable with that, as he is ULTRA driven and ..... much more determine than most folks who haven't had a set back in the form of a brain injury!

 

His memory isn't that bad and I have faith that he'll make something of himself and he doesn't have to be confined to a low income if he has the will to overcome this....

[RonaldS]

I don't want kids.

 

Sh*t.....too late. FML.

[pink_sugar]

I went from penniless to a millionaire in less than 7 years...All without any help from anyone..While I have confidence in myself I wouldnt have imagined in a million years how my life/situation turned around..Point is, you have no idea where your life is going..Your career, your partner, your life,...NOTHING is guaranteed or certain..

 

.If you are so certain of the future-let me know what the lottery numbers are....

 

Dont let what you think will happen dictate your actions...It could wind up being a "self-fulfilling prophecy"..if you let this mindset dominate your thoughts..

 

TFY

 

Penniless to millionare in 7 years? That almost sounds like a multilevel marketing pitch....sorry. I'm sure it's possible, no doubt. Even know someone who makes $150k after about 5-7 years starting with nothing. However, she is in one of those multi-level marketing sales jobs and working 12 hours a day, 6 days a week. So it's not realistic for most as most jobs require years of experience before making that kind of money. Leigh, if both of you make 65k each, you'd be pretty well off to have kids by 38. With my skills and experience, I know I can make at least 45k right now...even interviewed for jobs that pay up to 55k. I hope to be making $75k by the time I'm 30.

[JamesM]

I never wanted children either...until I had them.

[Leigh 87]

I DO think I want children with the right guy, BUT I don't really agree ethically on having kids on a low income, when I would rather dedicate myself to children who already need help...

 

 

If I won lotto or if I had my social work degree and the HR masters I want to get that lasts a year... I would be able to have kids in my late 30's IF I had completed those degrees in ym EARLY to MID 20's.

 

But I haven't so I am faced with either having a low income, poverty swelling family OR not having a family at all.

 

Point blank. Period.

 

I am just one of these people that knows she would enjoy a child as much as a super maternal woman who would have kids at all cost even if dirt poor.

 

YET I don't crave motherhood enough to do it poor on a JOINT low income.

 

I pretty much told my bf, look, I don't want kids since I will be on a low income into my 40's, so unless you earn a good wage you will have to find another woman to have children with.

 

He just wouldn't have any of it, and said he is the same as me; he would love a child but he doesn't want one ENOUGH to have one on a JOINT low income.

[thefooloftheyear]

Penniless to millionare in 7 years? That almost sounds like a multilevel marketing pitch....sorry. I'm sure it's possible, no doubt. Even know someone who makes $150k after about 5-7 years starting with nothing. However, she is in one of those multi-level marketing sales jobs and working 12 hours a day, 6 days a week. So it's not realistic for most as most jobs require years of experience before making that kind of money. Leigh, if both of you make 65k each, you'd be pretty well off to have kids by 38. With my skills and experience, I know I can make at least 45k right now...even interviewed for jobs that pay up to 55k. I hope to be making $75k by the time I'm 30.

 

 

My business took off like a rocket, I learned how to work the equity markets, flipped some real estate and bought some collectible stuff that went through the roof....No MLM bullshyt here...

 

Believe me, I was working 18 hour days and was 100% committed to success...It can be done...but its not easy...

 

Point is my case may be extreme, but no one knows what life brings them....Heck, my own brother makes a lot of money...He was working a minimum wage job at an electronic store and befriended someone who happened to be related to a guy that wasa starting up a new company and needed some qualified and hardworking guys...WHo was the guy this guy was related to? Michael Bloomberg....Yes, THAT Bloomberg the billionaire, but when my brother first met him he was just getting his empire off the ground..

 

You just dont know what life brings..

 

TFY

Edited April 24, 2014 by thefooloftheyear

[pink_sugar]

I never wanted children either...until I had them.

 

That's great, but there are a lot of people who don't want children and end up having them that regret it later...you just don't hear people admitting it often.

[JamesM]

That's great, but there are a lot of people who don't want children and end up having them that regret it later...you just don't hear people admitting it often.

 

Agree that there are some somewhere. And when the kids are in the early years, many of us wonder why we ever had them. I still do at times...especially one of them!

 

But I love every one of them.

 

My point was that if I never had them, then I would have been okay with it. But now that I have them, then I am good with that too.

 

Honestly? I have never heard anyone say that they regret having children. Maybe no one will admit it. I have had parents say that they wonder why they ever had them, but it was due to the frustration and grief caused by the kids. Yet I can't ever say that any of them said they would wish them away.

[D-Fens]

Leigh, I think you're absolutely right to consider your resources when planning a family. In the 21st century, in the developed world, with access to birth control, having children is not a right but a privilege.

I always thought, growing up, that I'd have children but was diagnosed with a medical condition ten years ago which is highly heritable. If someone asked me would I like my mother or father to suffer from it just to keep me company, of course I'd refuse. Why should I bring a new, vulnerable person into the world to keep me company when they'll probably be sick too?

Regarding income, nobody would tell you to buy a house you can't afford and just hope that the bank doesn't hassle you for repayment. A child is a billion times more important than a house so you should only have a child that (at the time of conception) you can afford to provide for. Of course circumstances change but I think it's unfair to try to conceive if you can't afford it.

And as for not wanting children at all? Absolutely natural. If everyone and all species wanted their children, you wouldn't read about animals eating their babies!

[Blaze997]

On OLD, I see a lot of women that want to "rescue and have animals" but also "travel the world." And like Leigh they also don't want kids. I don't get it, because If you have a house full of animals, it's hard to go away for the weekend, much less travel the world. Is this more of a wish list, and not actually reflect their life?

 

When I see this on a girl's profile I consider it an automatic next. Maybe I'm reading too much into this, and they don't really mean it? I mean, I've known a lot of people and I've never actually met someone who had multiple pets and still traveled the world...I've been lurking for awhile and thought most of Leigh's other posts were pretty realistic, so this seems odd to me.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Blaze997

[Leigh 87]

On OLD, I see a lot of women that want to "rescue and have animals" but also "travel the world." And like Leigh they also don't want kids. I don't get it, because If you have a house full of animals, it's hard to go away for the weekend, much less travel the world. Is this more of a wish list, and not actually reflect their life?

 

When I see this on a girl's profile I consider it an automatic next. Maybe I'm reading too much into this, and they don't really mean it? I mean, I've known a lot of people and I've never actually met someone who had multiple pets and still traveled the world...I've been lurking for awhile and thought most of Leigh's other posts were pretty realistic, so this seems odd to me.

 

 

 

I don't need regular travel.

 

I have already been to a few places so yeah.. i guess I want an overseas trip every 3 ish years. And on a budget of course. ..

 

and I don't harp on to folks in reap life a out my dreams.

 

I disclose things on here I just don't talk about in real life. Frankly, I would never put on my profile that I wanted to save animals and crap.

 

I think it's honorable to DO it and not tall about it. So yeah I have nnlever told guys of my dreams to be altruistic. It slips out much later when they ask me what matters to me. In which case I just say something like "well it woul bbe ideal to try to help out on some scale since I myself grew up privileged. That's all I've ever disclosed in real life. .... to close friends.

 

I don'tplan on having an animal shelter until 50s when i can afford that responsibility. In the mean while yes i want to rescue a few animals.at a ttime. But not a full blown shelter!

 

I am thinking 4 or 5 animals tops at any one ttime.

 

Plus I would likely to travel often due to finances and I would only travelfor 2 wweeks to a month per year due work holidays.

 

I wouldget the animals c

[Leigh 87]

I would put the animals I a kennel. Affordable since I will likely only afford travel once every 3 lor 4 years.

[Blaze997]

I would put the animals I a kennel. Affordable since I will likely only afford travel once every 3 lor 4 years.

 

Ok this seems reasonable to me. It sounds like you just don't want to be stuck in the same place looking at the same things your whole life. That's different than the demands I saw from other girls. I call them "checklisters." (Closely related to the "fairytailer") They have a list of demands on their profile that just seem ridiculous. On top of all this you have to have the same "paleo" diet as them or whatever. Really?

 

Having kids or not having kids is such a big issue. On one hand, **** that, it's too much work, and why do I need to have the "normal life" everyone says I should have. But the idea of genetic oblivion is scary, that's why so many guys don't want to sign onto a childless life. We really over-think it, it's like, what's the point of life if nothing lives on? Just giving you some perspective.

[Leigh 87]

Yeah, I strongly want to get involved with regular charity holidays whereby I volunteer overseas once every 3 years.

 

I don't want to have a child if it means I will be stuck in Australia more entire life with no hope of overseas travel.

 

I am not asking to be a total set setter that stays in marble hotels.

 

I grew up for 2 years in a 5 star all marble hotel in Hong Kong. I have seen luxury and have no desire for it, I get HIGH on seeing the world, as a sufferer of insomnia, a bed I can sleep in is all I need, a luxury hotel room does not make me any happier than a hostel bunk. I get the high from being in another country. Not through doing it in comfort.

 

 

 

Having a child and simply being able to volunteer overseas once every 2 to 4 years is all I ask.

 

 

 

I am going to strive harder academically, do well and ALSO do a masters if I can.

 

 

 

I will take the necessary steps. I will work weekends at events well after college, I will take bar work, I will work nights after my 9 - 5 job without hassle. I am a hard worker.

 

 

You know, I am willing to do another year or two after my degree studying a masters if it will further my chances at getting a better income.

 

 

I think when there is a will there is a way for me... to earn a living that allows me a child IF I CHOOSE, AND overseas volunteering trips.

 

 

If not though, I need a partner who can live with me opting not to have a child with them due to the child taking up everything I earn, without anything left for... well, anything but raising the child.

[Leigh 87]

LOLZ.

 

They want a guy who has a paleo diet?

 

 

Laughable. But hey, it is their right to choose whom ever they see fit:lmao::lmao:

 

I tried paleo it seems pretty good but ya......

 

 

I was a health nut and only ate clean, no added sugar or chemicals and yet I dated my ex who was unhealthy...

 

 

It was an adjustment but it is not healthy being too anal with food, it breeds eating disorders. I would know.

[Silly_Girl]

Leigh, I am saying this in the hopes of being helpful or kind, but I suspect it may be perceived as the opposite and it's a chance I'm going to take.

 

You have no REAL chance of planning all these things. Many, many different things may happen: to you, in the world, to your relationship etc. People change over time, often many times in lots of ways.

 

Having such fixed and specific goals, that you defend so very vigorously, may seem sensible to you but it can come across as a little naive or immature.

 

So there's 2 aspects to my post here. One is that I hope you will stay open-minded as the years progress, to give you the best chance of enjoying life and maximising opportunities. Secondly, please don't be surprised if folk challenge you or seem to have misgivings about your plans. It isn't that they don't support your ideals, more that they may feel you are a little naive. I hope it all happens for you

[Leigh 87]

Leigh, I am saying this in the hopes of being helpful or kind, but I suspect it may be perceived as the opposite and it's a chance I'm going to take.

 

You have no REAL chance of planning all these things. Many, many different things may happen: to you, in the world, to your relationship etc. People change over time, often many times in lots of ways.

 

Having such fixed and specific goals, that you defend so very vigorously, may seem sensible to you but it can come across as a little naive or immature.

 

So there's 2 aspects to my post here. One is that I hope you will stay open-minded as the years progress, to give you the best chance of enjoying life and maximising opportunities. Secondly, please don't be surprised if folk challenge you or seem to have misgivings about your plans. It isn't that they don't support your ideals, more that they may feel you are a little naive. I hope it all happens for you

 

 

 

 

If I work hard at college and I am willing to do further studies if need be, why is there no real chance in me ever affording to go overseas once every few years?

 

It seems like a very reasonable goal. Overseas travel once every 2 - 4 years.

 

People on minimum wage afford a once every 3 ish years, budget conscious, overseas stay. If they live within their means and, one year out of every 3, they REALLY don't go out to eat, buy good skin care, and just rough it. No movie outings or leisure for one year = an overseas cheap trip if you are on minimum wage.

 

You can stay in, rent 10 weeklies at blockbuster here per week, and study in your spare time towards potentially better job opportunities.

 

Over seas travel on minimum wage doesn't have to be a death sentence where by the person is MISERABLE.

 

I am actually very happy and I love like like crazy just having basic food and shelter. Seeing the world gives me a higher; going to movies, eating out and normal things like that do not give me pleasure MORE than staying in, eating on the cheap and not throwing my money for outings that cost.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Leigh 87