Who Doesn't Want Kids?

[Leigh 87]

I am not against the idea of going on one last big trip or two and then giving it all up for a child in my late 30's.

 

I guess child free I loved the idea of being able to travel once every year or two, on average wage if you live frugally you deff can visit overseas for a few weeks every year, you can do it with 5 K if you stay in hostels.

I know A LOT of people on low incomes who save like crazy and get overseas once a year if they save VERY hard.

 

I feel like if I were to have kids, being a late college graduate will = living in poverty.

 

I am not desperate to have kids so I want to avoid living in poverty.

[Iguanna]

Leigh you don't want to understand my point. You reply to every post repeating your point of view, without trying to understand what this post even says. You seem like a robot, repeating things you've learnt without them having any meaning. Once more I'll repeat what I am saying and I hope this time the reply I'll get will indicate that in a way you gave my post a thought before telling me once more your point of view.

 

I don't mind people saying they don't want kids cause they feel they can't take this responsibility. I once knew a woman who told me "I never had kids cause I felt I didn't have what it took mentally and financially to raise them". What doesn't sit right with me is the fact of you claiming to be a good person cause you prefer to spend the money you will make in your life to rescue dogs and shelter other people's kids. First of all, normal people are moderate enough to let other people say whether they are good people or not. Second of all, how much money do you find enough to raise your own kid and be satisfied with it? And how much money are you willing to spend for dogs and orphans? I think the second goal requires a lot more money. Why aren't you being honest with yourself? You don't want your own kid cause you want to feel free to spend your time and money the way YOU decide. It's not a bad thing to feel. The bad thing begins when you claim that you are a good person for wanting to rescue dogs and orphans while doing your travelling and botox. In people's eyes putting botox and travelling before maternity seems odd and it contradicts the fact that you claim to be a good person. You remind me of that woman in that show, the moment of truth. She revealed so many dark secrets to take the 200,000$, and the last question was "Do you think you are a good person?", she answered yes, which was false and she lost the money.

 

Anyway, it's your life.

[Leigh 87]

LOL.

 

Cool. So, without knowing me, can you please specify the things I do in my daily life that show I am not a good person?

 

This is hilarious:lmao:

 

Without knowing me at all, you claim to know I am not a good person.

You claim to know how I treat other people around me on a daily basis?

You claim to know how much empathy and compassion I feel (you cannot measure my feelings, so it seems pretty baseless that you ASSUME I am not kind and compassionate)

Come on then, name the things I do in my day to day life that indicate I am not a good person?

 

 

Hey, just wondering. How much time do you dedicate to listening to your friends when they need to talk?

Would you let someone you barely new crash in your house if they were broke and in a crisis situation?

How much empathy and compassion do you feel for other people? Oh, and can you please specify how you can measure YOURE level of humanity and compassion, against MY level?

 

 

 

The fact I don't want kids because I will not be able to afford them, yet I will be able to afford travel every now and again says nothing about my level of compassion for other people.

I don't have an urge for kids. I have an urge for travel. I have an urge to help out other people whenever I can, from a young age I have been a nice kid.

 

You join the dots ^^^^ There is nothing sinister about that equation that = me as a bad person.

 

 

 

And yes I have always had set plans as to the things I wanted to do in life to help other people.

It is based on the way I was raised, I had very kind parents.

My parents always did more for other people than all the other kids parents, and from a VERY young age I have had generosity and compassion instilled in me based on my UPBRINGING.

 

 

 

I have a deep routed history that has made me want to help other people now in the present day.

This whole wanting to help people thing has not only just came about.

Sadly for me I was ill as a late teen/early 20's adult, and I was not able to volunteer or do many things since I was frail.

But alas, I am better now and have been volunteering ever since I was well enough to function again.

 

 

 

 

Again, if anyone has a measuring device to prove that I am "not a good person" please use it, or stop assuming you know the sort of a person I am on a daily basis to the people around me.

[Leigh 87]

I will tell you about a few of the initiates I have planned on doing from young age so you have a better idea of the costs involved

 

I was taken to some very poor countries when I was very young, and there was such a contrast between how my parents spoiled me and took me travelling, and these little children and their families who could not afford to survive.

Ever since then I have known that I wanted to, as my child version of myself would say : I want to travel around the world to help children who don't have nice parents like mine"

 

I have also known that I would buy a place; a small place that is a little run down, yet has a large yard in which I can take home a few stray dogs.

And then later in life, we are talking in my 40s and 50's, I will think about opening an animal shelter where I can help animals on a larger scale

 

Lastly, I want to help support my mother AND also my friends in times of need, if I have friends or family who need help yet cannot afford it, I want to be able to help them.

My family are all lovely, socially conscience people.

 

Those are the main things I have dreamt about.

 

Social workers in Australia get paid way more handsomely than in the UK or the USA, once we get a career orientated role, we get made a medium OR ABOVE salary

Social workers in Australia can pay the bills and save for travel.

 

MY ULTIMATE career goal is to work for a non for profit organisation or some sort of organisation that allows me to enjoy my love of travelling overseas, and also help people in the process.

So, ya know, if my life works out and is even a small semblance of what I wanted it to be like regarding my career goals, I will not NEED to for out for overseas travel.

 

 

 

 

 

Does that also explain why I am weary of having children when, well, my DREAM career path involves me working overseas?

I am totally indifferent about children, I wouldn't care if I never had them yet I can tell I would be a hands on mother if I WERE to have one...

I hate the idea though of not being able to afford kids AND to also pursue my dream career, to open my animal shelter one day and to be able to look after my mother as she ages and my family.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Besides botox and enjoying overseas travel, you are all crazy if you can see anything in my story that screams "bad, selfish person" here.

 

Botox is less than 800 per year. Like, seriously.

[RedRobin]

Hey Leigh,

 

 

I'll help you out here... having been down this path for awhile...

 

 

The people who want or have kids who say you are selfish for not wanting them?? Well, those people likely HAD kids for selfish reasons too. They find enjoyment in having them. Some of them also think those kids will be taking care of them in old age, etc etc. So there is not one of them who will ever convince ME that their brand of selfishness is any better than mine, lol.

 

 

Lots of people choose not to have kids, or even choose not to have a partner at all... in order to pursue a life of altruism. I mean, we don't go around calling Jesus selfish because he didn't have kids, do we?

 

 

Not comparing myself to Jesus or Mother Theresa, but you get the point.

 

 

Lots of ways to live your life and find a way to be in service to others and make the world a better place. I, personally, felt that having children was an irresponsible choice given the state of the world these days... and that my time and energy was better spent helping those who were already here...

 

 

it sounds like you do too.

[Leigh 87]

Hey Leigh,

 

 

I'll help you out here... having been down this path for awhile...

 

 

The people who want or have kids who say you are selfish for not wanting them?? Well, those people likely HAD kids for selfish reasons too. They find enjoyment in having them. Some of them also think those kids will be taking care of them in old age, etc etc. So there is not one of them who will ever convince ME that their brand of selfishness is any better than mine, lol.

 

 

Lots of people choose not to have kids, or even choose not to have a partner at all... in order to pursue a life of altruism. I mean, we don't go around calling Jesus selfish because he didn't have kids, do we?

 

 

Not comparing myself to Jesus or Mother Theresa, but you get the point.

 

 

Lots of ways to live your life and find a way to be in service to others and make the world a better place. I, personally, felt that having children was an irresponsible choice given the state of the world these days... and that my time and energy was better spent helping those who were already here...

 

 

it sounds like you do too.

 

 

 

 

 

I have never met someone like you who understands me to this extent.

 

When I was very young it just "clicked" for me that... well, when you take an 8 year old to a third world country and get her to see beggars, child beggars, with missing limbs, something in me thought " having even more kids is so irresponsible"

I didn't consciously realise this at the time but I just "felt" something and I just "knew" that I was "different" from the masses.. from the majority.....

 

Another thing with me is... I have always been interested in social issues, my dad always talked to me about them. Knowing some very unsavoury things were going on in the world only reiterated my stance on kids.

 

In my teens I was never maternal. At all.

I have had one maternal moment in my entire life. One Christmas day with my current boyfriend. I love him more than anything I have ever loved, I become overwhelmed with love for him. Seeing the way he smiles and what a wonderful person he is got me emotional and thinking about having our children.

 

I remember drunk texting my best friend saying I wanted to have our babies. LOL.

 

But yeah, NEVER AGAIN did I get that way about kids. But I DO know that in some capacity, if I had enough recourses financially, I WOULD have his children as I know he loves the idea of having a little me or him. I know I would love being a mum but I don't WANT it enough to do it when I will likely be on a low income for a while to come, well into and after my child bearing years.

[passion_flower]

It's very sad that someone knows they want botox at the age of 27.

 

How do you know you're not going to age well? I can understand women in their late 40's who look older than their years wanting it but to want it at 27 is just ridiculous.

 

Unless the slightly startled look appeals to you..

[Iguanna]

So your parents take you to third world countries, you see kids sick and not having to eat and what you get from it is 1. I want to spend money to help kids (good for ya!) and 2. I want to spend money on botox and a nose job of course. But above all, I'm a good person. A bit of spoiled but yeah, who isn't spoiled these days huh?

[RedRobin]

Here is a potential business plan for you Leigh.

 

Create a non profit or medical practice that donates a portion of every dollar spent on personal plastic surgery, Botox, etc to those who need surgery to correct facial birth defects, or to people recovering from strokes who need Botox in their arms or legs to eliminate cramping.

 

A good friend of mine had a stroke awhile back and had horrible pain from cramps she couldn't relieve herself. The injected her with Botox and it helped her a lot.

[Leigh 87]

So your parents take you to third world countries, you see kids sick and not having to eat and what you get from it is 1. I want to spend money to help kids (good for ya!) and 2. I want to spend money on botox and a nose job of course. But above all, I'm a good person. A bit of spoiled but yeah, who isn't spoiled these days huh?

 

 

 

You make no sense.

 

So wanting a nose job makes me a bad person. Riiiight.. :lmao::lmao:

 

I don't think anyone knows what your talking about:o

 

Wanting to get a nose job doesn't make me a bad person. You have serious problems.

 

Plenty of people get nose jobs and also donate a lot of money to charity.

[dichotomy]

I

Plus by my late 30's he will be early 40's and I REFUSE point black to have a child at age 36 or younger. I am 27.

I will just be too broke and have to seriously struggle for a child before my late 30s.

.

 

so have a kid at 38 or 39, or 40, or......its the 21st century.

 

As mentioned you sound very caring - wanting to help others. I admire that in you.

 

If you have no urge no desire for kids, thats cool, you have much you would like to give back to the world - make difference. Thats great. Giving back and serving others has been a major part of my life for the last decade.

 

I just want to make sure you are really focusing (say 90%) on the fact that you REALLY dont want kids and not using your age or money as a major reason - cause you can get past that reason (if it is a major reason).

Edited April 21, 2014 by dichotomy

[Leigh 87]

Here is a potential business plan for you Leigh.

 

Create a non profit or medical practice that donates a portion of every dollar spent on personal plastic surgery, Botox, etc to those who need surgery to correct facial birth defects, or to people recovering from strokes who need Botox in their arms or legs to eliminate cramping.

 

A good friend of mine had a stroke awhile back and had horrible pain from cramps she couldn't relieve herself. The injected her with Botox and it helped her a lot.

 

 

 

 

In the second half of my life, when I have amassed savings (I want to save/give most of my money away, I don't want to spend MOST of it on travel)

 

I have always felt strongly about granting people in serious accidents the funds to have facial reconstruction.

 

Or just poor children that are born with abnormally sized noses, to the point where people think they are freaks and they don't have a hope for a normal life.

 

This is all in the later stage of my life...... When I have real money to get things going, I doubt I will be wealthy but I will hopefully accumulate enough over the years in order to set up SOME kind of legacy behind NOT in the form of child but in the form of a charitable organisation.

[Leigh 87]

So your parents take you to third world countries, you see kids sick and not having to eat and what you get from it is 1. I want to spend money to help kids (good for ya!) and 2. I want to spend money on botox and a nose job of course. But above all, I'm a good person. A bit of spoiled but yeah, who isn't spoiled these days huh?

 

 

 

LOL LOL ok ok, so, how about if I make 60K in one year and I give 5000 away to a charity, and I spend 3000 on a brief 2 week getaway.

 

I don't plan on travelling all the time, I plan to spend 3 times as much helping other people as I do on travel for myself.

 

Can you please explain why that makes me "not a good person"????

 

I don't think anyone here understands your logic.

[Standard-Fare]

Leigh, I haven't read through the posts here, but I don't think you need to defend yourself at all for not wanting kids. For WHATEVER reasons.

 

The only thing that raised a red flag for me is that the guy you're dating now, who you seem to be planning a future with, doesn't seem to be completely on board with this stance.

 

Don't understand how big of a deal this issue is for relationships. And also understand that you can never/should never try to "talk someone into" a new position on this matter, because it will only lead to misery.

 

I think you said at one point that you would give it some time and see if your BF is "for real" about not wanting kids. But I'd hate to see you set up a life with him only to find yourself single years later because he decides he wants to be a daddy.

[Leigh 87]

so have a kid at 38 or 39, or 40, or......its the 21st century.

 

As mentioned you sound very caring - wanting to help others. I admire that in you.

 

If you have no urge no desire for kids, thats cool, you have much you would like to give back to the world - make difference. Thats great. Giving back and serving others has been a major part of my life for the last decade.

 

I just want to make sure you are really focusing (say 90%) on the fact that you REALLY dont want kids and not using your age or money as a major reason - cause you can get past that reason (if it is a major reason).

 

 

I am actually listening to a utube documentary on social problems in America.

 

I feel so sorry for the people who work 40 hours a week to make an honest living and yet do not have health insurance and cannot afford to fix their broken legs, or a serious mental illness they don't have.

 

LOL LOL - one guy just said " well a big problem is that there are just more and more people, it is way too over populated with not enough jobs or recourses to go around". * Snigger*, Yep. It is actually not rocket science and many normal, every day people realise that people RIGHT NOW are screwed, hard working people cannot even effort health insurance and mental help if they are totally deranged, so you want MORE kids? When we ALREADY do not have enough recourses?

 

Sure I will have a child at 39 if I have a good enough income to support one. My boyfriend will be too old by then; he is nearly 4 years older than me. Hmm. I am not sure I like the world enough to have one, you know....

Human nature is.... too scary and too flawed to outweigh the inherent goodness I find in myself and other nice folks.

 

I force myself to watch the news every week as I don't want to live under a rock:lmao:

 

It is always about " oh, another mass killing in Algeria"

 

" oh, the starvation level in Syria is at catastrophic "

 

Yeah. That poster who thinks it is selfish to NOT have kids, has an extraordinary ability to be delusional about social issues the world over:lmao::lmao:

[Leigh 87]

Leigh, I haven't read through the posts here, but I don't think you need to defend yourself at all for not wanting kids. For WHATEVER reasons.

 

The only thing that raised a red flag for me is that the guy you're dating now, who you seem to be planning a future with, doesn't seem to be completely on board with this stance.

 

Don't understand how big of a deal this issue is for relationships. And also understand that you can never/should never try to "talk someone into" a new position on this matter, because it will only lead to misery.

 

I think you said at one point that you would give it some time and see if your BF is "for real" about not wanting kids. But I'd hate to see you set up a life with him only to find yourself single years later because he decides he wants to be a daddy.

 

 

 

 

Yep I have talked to him about the issue of kids a few times in depth.

 

He said what he has with me is not the sort of .. "thing" he knows he can readily just find, and I feel the same way.

 

We both believe we have something that is too worthwhile to ....end over kids.

 

He doesn't want kids badly enough to have them on a low income. He says he is not DESPERATE to have to be a dad. He said it would be a big bonus but yeah. Kids and a low income are highly unappealing to him.

 

If it came down to it and he DID earn a decent enough income (I think his dad is going to help him with a business), and I am earning enough, then sure I would agree to a child.

 

MY part of the deal was: if we earn an above average income I will have a child.

 

His deal: if we are on an average or low income I have the right to say no.

 

He said he will be very happy irrespective if having a child or not, and the child thing is a huge "bonus".

 

Some people like my bf would love kids but he isn't desperate enough to have them on a low income.

[Standard-Fare]

MY part of the deal was: if we earn an above average income I will have a child.

 

His deal: if we are on an average or low income I have the right to say no.

 

He said he will be very happy irrespective if having a child or not, and the child thing is a huge "bonus".

 

OK, that arrangement seems like it's RIFE with complications and contradictions, but I'm leaving this one alone! I'm sure other posters will have some stuff to say about it.

[Leigh 87]

OK, that arrangement seems like it's RIFE with complications and contradictions, but I'm leaving this one alone! I'm sure other posters will have some stuff to say about it.

 

 

 

How?

 

We have discussed it at length.

 

He says he HATES the idea of having kids if he is on a low income.

 

He likes the idea of kids but if he is on a low income, he is not desperate enough to have kids, to have them on a low income.

 

That fits in well with me, cos there is no way I am having a child if we are poor.

 

Why is that difficult to understand?

 

I am in love with him enough to give up travel and have a child in my late 30's on AVERAGE incomes, BOTH on average incomes.

 

And even then I would want to afford to take my child overseas at least once.

 

 

 

 

 

He knows all this ^^^ And he whole heartedly agrees with me.

 

We both hate the idea of a having a child on low incomes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

How is this a bad situation?

[Standard-Fare]

How is this a bad situation?

 

Because you've listed a VARIETY of other reasons why you don't want children, aside from the income... and you seem pretty firm on this issue.

 

Beyond that, it just seems like a slippery slope to say "Well maybe if our financial situation gets to be X we will do this" because you and your partner could end up having very different ideas on this issue in the future.

 

What happens if he says "We can handle this financially now, so I want to be a father," and you still feel like "No way, we'd need a lot more money to be comfortable raising a kid"?

 

Or what happens if you have to choose between taking Job A (high salary but job you don't want) and Job B (mediocre salary but job you DO want), and your husband sees it as your obligation to take Job A, so you can raise a family?

 

Just giving a couple of examples of complications that could arise in the future.

 

Bottom line, though, is that it's a bad idea to try to compromise on such a huge issue.

[jonsnuh]

Although I did comment on the observations of income with the likelihood of children, I personally think these are correlated and not causative.

 

As many LSers mentioned, having a children at a later age is not a problem.

 

Also, if you were to make your child the centre of the universe, you would put all your desires behind the priorities your child demands. Sometimes it's not about money, but rather time that you can spend with your child.

 

I have known many families who were both working professionals who did very well financially, but could not be there for their child. This disconnection was a huge problem that the child(ren) felt that led to resentment at the parents, with very little emotional bond between them. In fact, the maid that was hired to take care of the child(ren) grew up closer than the mother.

 

If you want what's best for the child, as a parent you would make it happen.

[dichotomy]

I am actually listening to a utube documentary on social problems in America.

 

I feel so sorry for the people who work 40 hours a week to make an honest living and yet do not have health insurance and cannot afford to fix their broken legs, or a serious mental illness they don't have.

 

LOL LOL - one guy just said " well a big problem is that there are just more and more people, it is way too over populated with not enough jobs or recourses to go around". * Snigger*, Yep. It is actually not rocket science and many normal, every day people realise that people RIGHT NOW are screwed, hard working people cannot even effort health insurance and mental help if they are totally deranged, so you want MORE kids? When we ALREADY do not have enough recourses?

 

Sure I will have a child at 39 if I have a good enough income to support one. My boyfriend will be too old by then; he is nearly 4 years older than me. Hmm. I am not sure I like the world enough to have one, you know....

Human nature is.... too scary and too flawed to outweigh the inherent goodness I find in myself and other nice folks.

 

I force myself to watch the news every week as I don't want to live under a rock:lmao:

 

It is always about " oh, another mass killing in Algeria"

 

" oh, the starvation level in Syria is at catastrophic "

 

Yeah. That poster who thinks it is selfish to NOT have kids, has an extraordinary ability to be delusional about social issues the world over:lmao::lmao:

 

Ha ! he will be too old;) ? As mentioned 42 was a NICE age for this man to have a child.

 

America does have its issues, and this is too political a hot topic, but a major step was made to make (quality) health care affordable in the US. The number of people uninsured in America is dropping now. Mental health coverage is now included in all policies and is unlimited, but enough of that hot button issue in the US.

 

The world has many many problems so much suffering. I have no idea where you live specifically and the living conditions, resources or chance to make a difference.

 

I can say I live in a wonderful place, and to raise a kid here is a blessing to them. A little slice of old style America - small town, concerts on the green, leave your door unlocked, the police chief hands out hot dogs at the 4th of July parade. Besides my kids have a dad who is making the world a better place in our town and in the lives of kids and adults - and maybe they can take over for me when I am gone - we need more fixers of things - so I will try to raise some.

 

But I digress again from the main topic.... If... in your heart don't like or want your own kids - if it would bring you down. Don't have them. Really too many people have kids with no real desire to have them and I can tell when parents are like this - some have them because they think they just should - or it happens.

 

You can still make a difference.

 

My kids will too.

Edited April 22, 2014 by dichotomy

[stillafool]

 

You will notice that men aren't given this message by society.

 

 

This is what gets me. People don't put this type of pressure on men. If a man says he doesn't want kids people barely blink; but when a woman doesn't want them people have a problem with it.

[dragon_fly_7]

This is what gets me. People don't put this type of pressure on men. If a man says he doesn't want kids people barely blink; but when a woman doesn't want them people have a problem with it.

I don't understand that either but I'll try to give my answer as to why people might think differently if a woman doesn't want kids.

 

As women, we're believed to be not just the more emotional and caregiving gender that likes bonding with children but be relationship and family oriented. Since many still believed a woman is nurturing by nature, it's a surprise to them that some of us simply don't want to ever get pregnant and would be happy to travel alone without kids.

 

Men, on the other hand are expected to always follow the steoreotype of the ''boys will be boys'' and to play the field as long as he wants to until a woman insists that she wants kids (this is a pretty bad steoreotype because it's like saying, no men wants kids by their own account but only if the woman brings the topic first). But there are still men that would dump a woman that doesn't want kids.

 

Though there are still more men that don't want kids than women, I'm honestly also getting tired of steoreotypes among genders. I wish there weren't any and people would then live their life however they wanted to.

Edited April 22, 2014 by dragon_fly_7

[Leigh 87]

Thanks for your feedback guys.

 

I love him enough to take the highly paid job I dislike over the averge wage job that I love... If we were financial doing well enough to support a child AND also were on a path to afford my many altruistic indevours then YES I would take a well paid job for US. I am not strictly a self serving unit, I have basic needs (I want to do more travel and not be poor) and as long as a bare minimum is being met, I will absolutely compromise in order to give him a child.

 

I have laid down to him the conditions in which I want a child. He agrees with me mostly. He says he wouldn't leave me over children. ... he said he is not DESPERATE to be a father. It would just be nice.

[Silly_Girl]

He says he wouldn't leave me over children.

 

I think a lot of decent folk say that. And they mean it at the time too.