Devastated

[lolablue17]

Is it possible to do this under UK law?

 

I dont know about the UK law but my logic tells me that in court - If side A has an attorney, and side B doesn't have, its an obvious and clear inequality and it can and should be reversed.

 

As I mentioned before, this whole process looks odd to me. Your elementary rights have been violated and I'm angry about the judge who let it happen.

[Intheclouds]

I think in the end it all boils down to when it turns nasty, woman hold all the aces because in more or less every case, they have primary custody of the child and can & do use that as a weapon.

 

She has spun a fantasy to suit her own ends. I would imagine the judge has seen it a thousand times before.

 

But what can you do? Fight the battles you can win I suppose, I dont think she will be expecting my solicitors letter next week re custody and she's in for a rude awakening regarding ownership of the house as I wont be giving that up in a hurry.

 

Plus, it would be oh so sweet if OM decides he doesnt need all the hassle an gets the hell out of dodge

[TaraMaiden]

The above advice regarding your wife's affair partner and naming him is extremely poor advice and you risk losing a lot more than you would gain.

For a start, if you have no definite proof or evidence (outside of their verbal admittance which they could then subsequently deny) he could sue you for defamation.

Secondly, you have to consider the grounds for filing for divorce; if you mention him in person it will prolong proceedings. Naming him will be seen as vindictive and unnecessary. Remember: keep the emotional out of it.

[Anne Boleyn]

You are right with a lot of what you say. Do I deserve to suffer for what I did? Absolutely. Did the guilt eat me up once the fog lifted? Absolutely. Has she been waiting to do this since my affair? Probably. Do two wrongs make a right? Is it really an eye for an eye?

 

I guess my issue in all of this is, when it was you having the A and only ending it because your partner ended it, all was OK. When it ended, then you felt bad... Sort of... Two years later... And thought all was great. Your wife didn't. Now she's doing to you what you would have done to her if you hadn't been dumped by your AP, after she was the woman-by-default to you for years, and now she's the big bad guy.

 

I'm sorry, I think this is all fallout of your affair and pining away for somebody for years, making clear that your wife was second best and the one you stuck with because the other option fell through. Now you're being rejected again, and there's hell to pay... But no accountability that it's a direct response, even by what you say above, to your treatment of her.

 

So she's cheating on you. She's doing it as a response to being cheated on by you, and reminded for two years that she's not the one you wanted. She's had enough and she's moved on, you're mad that after you've joined the marriage again, that she's gotten tired of waiting and left. You had no problem making a fool of her, but when she does exactly that to you, you're acting like a man scorned, ignoring that this whole ball started rolling because of you almost 5 years ago. It's as simple as that.

 

Life isn't black & white, we all know that, it's shades of grey. No two people are the same, we know this also and everybody has an OPINION.

 

And let me be the first to tell you, LS is filled with amateur lawyers, professional busybodies, people who give you advice off of their story and not yours, and people who share incomplete stories with the hopes of getting the advice they want or putting themselves in the best possible light. I'm seeing all of that on this thread...

 

I'll just go ahead and say it... A lot of what you say doesn't make sense. A judge doesn't order you to stay an X number of feet from marital property for no reason. And it's weird you wouldn't contest it. And this whole issue with not moving out of the house to prove a point, or to babysit a spouse who's intent on leaving... Weird. And a possible cause of why the judge ordered you to stay away. That has more than tinges of behavior that would be... Alarming.

 

It is my opinion that my ex has/is making me pay in the worst possible way for events that occured several years previously. It is my opinion that she has crossed the line with her actions. Not only has she had an affair she is attempting to portray me as a monster to further her own ends.

 

But you did have an affair. And if her having an affair and leaving you for the AP makes her a monster, you having an affair and not leaving only because your AP left you first makes you no better. Again, I find a distinct irony that she had an affair and left you, making her a monster, but you wanting to do the same but only being twarted by being left first, then pining away for 2 years... That's an "affair fog," it's not thinking clearly, it's you having a hard time, it's you and whatever LS-specific buzz phrase you use to deflect accountability for your affair and the consequences from it.

 

Therefore, it is my opinion that I can look myself in the mirror and say 'you have done wrong, yes, but do you deserve this?' No. Others may disagree, I can only say it like it is.

 

What I see here is a clear case of what's good for the goose being good for the gander, only the gander thinks differently because, for whatever reason, he "doesn't deserve this."

 

This is a consequence of your actions. If you think it's her being callous, well, honestly, it's no different than what you put her through and are not acknowledging.

 

If you can look in a mirror and say that you messed up but you don't deserve the consequences of that mess up, or you don't deserve as big a reprocussion for the mess up... Then I think that's something you need to examine in yourself. Obviously, actions have consequences and this is one of them, and if you feel that you should be immune to them, that's not so much a reflection of somebody doing disproportionate dirt to you, but you not acknowledging your accountability in all of this.

 

I dont know about the UK law but my logic tells me that in court - If side A has an attorney, and side B doesn't have, its an obvious and clear inequality and it can and should be reversed.

 

As I mentioned before, this whole process looks odd to me. Your elementary rights have been violated and I'm angry about the judge who let it happen.

 

I have family in the UK and Germany, when side A had an attorney and side B doesn't have one, side B is warned of what the consequences of that may be and can choose to continue or not continue until he or she has representation. This is the same as the states. If side B says that's fine, which he's stated he has... Oh well. It's not obvious and clear inequality and you don't get a do-over. That is a violation of the rights of the person in party A.

 

His elementary rights were not violated, we all have a right to representation, be it by lawyers or by ourselves. A judge cannot force you to get a lawyer when you decline one, as this poster has, unless they have diminished capacity or some sort of mental illness or condition where they are unable to defend themselves reasonably. That is not the case here. Don't be angry at the judge for allowing what is in most countries with a judicial system see as a fundamental right of both plaintiffs and defendants (self-representation). He made his choice, he may or may not have gotten a raw shake. If he did, again, he has nobody to blame but himself on that one. Not the judge, his ex, her lawyer... Just himself. And he doesn't automatically get do-overs after he regrets not getting a settlement he wanted... One cannot keep going back to court, saying they don't like the settlement they got, and ask to try again for something more favorable.

[Anne Boleyn]

Oh and whilst she mentioned recent events - the relationship breakdown - funnily enough, there is no mention of her affair in her statement. I wonder why :-)

 

Me too. If she were smart, she'd have said that you had an affair that caused the breakdown of the marriage and that she too had an affair after the marriage was irrevocably broken. And since she has proof of your admission to an affair, and you don't have anything concrete on hers, the ball is most definitely in her court on that one.

 

However, somehow, I doubt you got around to mentioning your affair either... I wonder why?

[lolablue17]

No one is expecting you to plan somethin yourself. My sister is now in 2 years of ugly divorce with her STBEX

 

1. In the beginning he convinced her to "lets not involve solicitors because its expensive". He made her life to be a nightmare.

 

2. Then she hired a cheap solicitor and had another solicitor (acquaintance) for advice. She didnt do well and the situation became much worse.

 

3. I took the lead and gave her money to hire a good private solicitor and magically - things have changed 180 degrees. Only the knowledge of the other side that she is well armed and protected did a lot of difference, not to mention the rest. She (the solicitor) thoughts my sisters has many rights and a good case while the other solicitors thought that the situation is against my sister.

 

A. Dont think yourself what to do. Get a good lawyer! he will think for you.

B. expose the affair to everyone, including the OM Environment

[lolablue17]

I have family in the UK and Germany, when side A had an attorney and side B doesn't have one, side B is warned of what the consequences of that may be and can choose to continue or not continue until he or she has representation. This is the same as the states. If side B says that's fine, which he's stated he has... Oh well. It's not obvious and clear inequality and you don't get a do-over. That is a violation of the rights of the person in party A.

His elementary rights were not violated

 

Not if the hearing happened with only one day in advance.

[Intheclouds]

I guess my issue in all of this is, when it was you having the A and only ending it because your partner ended it, all was OK. When it ended, then you felt bad... Sort of... Two years later... And thought all was great. Your wife didn't. Now she's doing to you what you would have done to her if you hadn't been dumped by your AP, after she was the woman-by-default to you for years, and now she's the big bad guy.

 

I'm sorry, I think this is all fallout of your affair and pining away for somebody for years, making clear that your wife was second best and the one you stuck with because the other option fell through. Now you're being rejected again, and there's hell to pay... But no accountability that it's a direct response, even by what you say above, to your treatment of her.

 

So she's cheating on you. She's doing it as a response to being cheated on by you, and reminded for two years that she's not the one you wanted. She's had enough and she's moved on, you're mad that after you've joined the marriage again, that she's gotten tired of waiting and left. You had no problem making a fool of her, but when she does exactly that to you, you're acting like a man scorned, ignoring that this whole ball started rolling because of you almost 5 years ago. It's as simple as that.

 

 

 

And let me be the first to tell you, LS is filled with amateur lawyers, professional busybodies, people who give you advice off of their story and not yours, and people who share incomplete stories with the hopes of getting the advice they want or putting themselves in the best possible light. I'm seeing all of that on this thread...

 

I'll just go ahead and say it... A lot of what you say doesn't make sense. A judge doesn't order you to stay an X number of feet from marital property for no reason. And it's weird you wouldn't contest it. And this whole issue with not moving out of the house to prove a point, or to babysit a spouse who's intent on leaving... Weird. And a possible cause of why the judge ordered you to stay away. That has more than tinges of behavior that would be... Alarming.

 

 

 

But you did have an affair. And if her having an affair and leaving you for the AP makes her a monster, you having an affair and not leaving only because your AP left you first makes you no better. Again, I find a distinct irony that she had an affair and left you, making her a monster, but you wanting to do the same but only being twarted by being left first, then pining away for 2 years... That's an "affair fog," it's not thinking clearly, it's you having a hard time, it's you and whatever LS-specific buzz phrase you use to deflect accountability for your affair and the consequences from it.

 

 

 

What I see here is a clear case of what's good for the goose being good for the gander, only the gander thinks differently because, for whatever reason, he "doesn't deserve this."

 

This is a consequence of your actions. If you think it's her being callous, well, honestly, it's no different than what you put her through and are not acknowledging.

 

If you can look in a mirror and say that you messed up but you don't deserve the consequences of that mess up, or you don't deserve as big a reprocussion for the mess up... Then I think that's something you need to examine in yourself. Obviously, actions have consequences and this is one of them, and if you feel that you should be immune to them, that's not so much a reflection of somebody doing disproportionate dirt to you, but you not acknowledging your accountability in all of this.

 

 

 

I have family in the UK and Germany, when side A had an attorney and side B doesn't have one, side B is warned of what the consequences of that may be and can choose to continue or not continue until he or she has representation. This is the same as the states. If side B says that's fine, which he's stated he has... Oh well. It's not obvious and clear inequality and you don't get a do-over. That is a violation of the rights of the person in party A.

 

His elementary rights were not violated, we all have a right to representation, be it by lawyers or by ourselves. A judge cannot force you to get a lawyer when you decline one, as this poster has, unless they have diminished capacity or some sort of mental illness or condition where they are unable to defend themselves reasonably. That is not the case here. Don't be angry at the judge for allowing what is in most countries with a judicial system see as a fundamental right of both plaintiffs and defendants (self-representation). He made his choice, he may or may not have gotten a raw shake. If he did, again, he has nobody to blame but himself on that one. Not the judge, his ex, her lawyer... Just himself. And he doesn't automatically get do-overs after he regrets not getting a settlement he wanted... One cannot keep going back to court, saying they don't like the settlement they got, and ask to try again for something more favorable.

 

If it was possible for me to post her statement on here then I would do and would be quite happy to discuss it, I have nothing to hide. There is nothing 'weird' about not contesting something that will ultimately boil down to her word against mine, could cost thousands in the process and would not achieve my orginal objective of keeping the family together. She has made it totally clear we will never live together again. Therefore, I have opted to allow my ex to remain in the home to give my child at least some semblance of normality. Why is that weird? I thought that was being a caring father.

 

I know of several people who have been subjected to non-molestation orders and their stories are the same: Their ex's lied on their statements. It's that simple. Yet there is very little you can do, one individual contested the case, lost and it cost him thousands.

 

I would be happy to return to court to 'clear my name' if you like on a point of principal. It would not achieve any other objective than that as the family are never going to be together again.

 

The two year fog you alluded to, I feel I should elaborate, my AP was lurking in the back of my mind throughout but I still shown my partner love an affection an I certainly did not make her feel second best, but you would have to ask her whether she felt like that. As I have mentioned previously, I have/did attempt to show remorse for my actions and take ownership for what I did. I genuinely believed we had moved on. Again, all this is my opinion, you have a different one and that's fine, that's why we post on forums such as these to garner other peoples views.

[Intheclouds]

Just thought Id post an update.

 

My former neighbour -who is a close friend- told me that the AP moved into my former home on the day I officially left and even brought his cat along too.

 

My ex and loverboy also got engaged last week. Talk about whirlwind romance.

 

Think it's safe to say she beat me to the punch and well & truly stitched me up.

 

I would echo the sentiments of all those who advised: Do not be a nice guy! It gets you no-where.

[No Limit]

Just thought Id post an update.

 

My former neighbour -who is a close friend- told me that the AP moved into my former home on the day I officially left and even brought his cat along too.

 

My ex and loverboy also got engaged last week. Talk about whirlwind romance.

 

Think it's safe to say she beat me to the punch and well & truly stitched me up.

 

I would echo the sentiments of all those who advised: Do not be a nice guy! It gets you no-where.

 

The faster it starts, the faster it crumbles.

You've given up your home for your daughter and you've given your ex space. Personally that's nice enough for me. Guess you should look into your own future now and focus on that, 'cause you have no option to control what they do.

[tom670]

Well now she can buy you out of the house now right?

[Intheclouds]

Perhaps, if her fiance has the money, she certainly doesn't have it as it stands. Maybe this will be the first real test of their relationship.

[miguelcervantes]

Devastated, I feel sorry for your situation and so as I understand, here is my understanding of what happened:

 

1. 11 years ago you fell in love with and started to be with your partner (never actually married her).
   
2. You both opted to buy a house together.
   
3. 6 years into the marriage, your partner fell pregnant with your now daughter.
   
4. At the same time you fell in love with someone at work and started an affair which lasted 18 months.
   
5. Although you decided to end it after 18 months because you fell back in love with your partner, it took another 2 years to completely come out of the fog (so as recently as two and a half years ago).
   
6. You now know that this affair dealt a terminal blow to your relationship but did not know it at the time.
   
7. Your partner took you back but started her plan to remove you from her life. It took her almost 2.5 years to find her current boyfriend and then set her plan into motion (some might say vindictive but smart girl).
   
8. She "fell in love" with this guy ???
   
9. In January she starts paving the way for him by first telling you that although she had feelings for him, she did not want to be with him BUT you had to move out so that she could figure things out.
   
10. As soon as you move out, she does three things:
    (a) she has him over for dinner, sex and time with your daughter;
    (b) she tells you after "counselling" that it is truly over and there is no getting back together again;
    © she files an order against you to make sure that you do not come back to the house for 12 months giving her time to seal her plan and finalise your destruction.
    
11. You agree to not fight this because you are not thinking clearly and do not see the whole picture/plan but regret not fighting it now.
    
12. She moves lover boy and his cat into the house permanently, and gets engaged to him (remember even the two of you are neither engaged nor married).
    

 

So while you fell in love and cheated, she cheated and fell in love ? Maybe ? However, it seems that her actions were that much more contrived/planned and therefore took deceit one big step further. Others will say that you deserved this and maybe they are right, but it does seem that much more harsh.

 

In any case, this relationship received its death blow when you cheated and she took this time 2 to 2.5 years to finally kill it off in a pretty brutal way.

 

You must now start working on yourself and your access to your daughter. If you can make life difficult for lover boy then fine, but that would be to give you revengeful satisfaction. My advice would be to spend the time on healing, making yourself stronger, getting out of any financial entanglement with her, and most of all, securing access to and protecting your daughter (including protecting her from the possibility of lover boy being a scumbag which you do not know for sure yet).

 

So start planning accordingly, is my advice.

[Intheclouds]

Devastated, I feel sorry for your situation and so as I understand, here is my understanding of what happened:

 

1. 11 years ago you fell in love with and started to be with your partner (never actually married her).
   
2. You both opted to buy a house together.
   
3. 6 years into the marriage, your partner fell pregnant with your now daughter.
   
4. At the same time you fell in love with someone at work and started an affair which lasted 18 months.
   
5. Although you decided to end it after 18 months because you fell back in love with your partner, it took another 2 years to completely come out of the fog (so as recently as two and a half years ago).
   
6. You now know that this affair dealt a terminal blow to your relationship but did not know it at the time.
   
7. Your partner took you back but started her plan to remove you from her life. It took her almost 2.5 years to find her current boyfriend and then set her plan into motion (some might say vindictive but smart girl).
   
8. She "fell in love" with this guy ???
   
9. In January she starts paving the way for him by first telling you that although she had feelings for him, she did not want to be with him BUT you had to move out so that she could figure things out.
   
10. As soon as you move out, she does three things:
    (a) she has him over for dinner, sex and time with your daughter;
    (b) she tells you after "counselling" that it is truly over and there is no getting back together again;
    © she files an order against you to make sure that you do not come back to the house for 12 months giving her time to seal her plan and finalise your destruction.
    
11. You agree to not fight this because you are not thinking clearly and do not see the whole picture/plan but regret not fighting it now.
    
12. She moves lover boy and his cat into the house permanently, and gets engaged to him (remember even the two of you are neither engaged nor married).
    

 

So while you fell in love and cheated, she cheated and fell in love ? Maybe ? However, it seems that her actions were that much more contrived/planned and therefore took deceit one big step further. Others will say that you deserved this and maybe they are right, but it does seem that much more harsh.

 

In any case, this relationship received its death blow when you cheated and she took this time 2 to 2.5 years to finally kill it off in a pretty brutal way.

 

You must now start working on yourself and your access to your daughter. If you can make life difficult for lover boy then fine, but that would be to give you revengeful satisfaction. My advice would be to spend the time on healing, making yourself stronger, getting out of any financial entanglement with her, and most of all, securing access to and protecting your daughter (including protecting her from the possibility of lover boy being a scumbag which you do not know for sure yet).

 

So start planning accordingly, is my advice.

 

Yep, that's all about right I would say. ?

[Intheclouds]

Yep, that's all about right I would say. ?

 

Oh and the wheels are in motion for a criminal records check on AP & I have instructed my solicitor re 50/50 custody. I think I'd rather die than sign the house over to her at present, but my feelings may change on that.

[miguelcervantes]

OK good - stay focussed and work on strengthening yourself. Do things for yourself, stay physically fit etc. The best result at this moment is:

 

• you are happy, attractive, fit, successful and indifferent to her
  
• you see your daughter regularly and have a great relationship with her
  
• your ex wife finds out that her current bf is a POS and realises that maybe it would have been better to truly give you a second chance (but this third item would be for your personal revengeful satisfaction)
  

 

And you have us TAMMERS to help you stay on the right path here.

 

I also understand your feelings regarding the house - but remember to think logically here. If not letting her have the house up's your alpha status then fine (I totally understand and would do the same) but at the same time you need to think about if winning out financially and transferring a financial burden to lover boy is a better option, then why not do it (especially if he realises this after the fact and takes it out on your ex).

[Oberfeldwebel]

Oh and the wheels are in motion for a criminal records check on AP & I have instructed my solicitor re 50/50 custody. I think I'd rather die than sign the house over to her at present, but my feelings may change on that.

 

I thought that you said you owe more than it is worth? If she wants to take the house let he have it and get out of debt? It's a house, don't fight her in court so you can stay in debt, that doesn't pass the common sense test.

[Intheclouds]

I thought that you said you owe more than it is worth? If she wants to take the house let he have it and get out of debt? It's a house, don't fight her in court so you can stay in debt, that doesn't pass the common sense test.

 

Yes, you are right in what you say of course but it's still a bit raw at the moment. I won't be going to court regarding the house though, just custody arrangements. I suppose I should see it as an opportunity to rid myself of a ball of debt than anything else.

[Intheclouds]

OK good - stay focussed and work on strengthening yourself. Do things for yourself, stay physically fit etc. The best result at this moment is:

 

• you are happy, attractive, fit, successful and indifferent to her
  
• you see your daughter regularly and have a great relationship with her
  
• your ex wife finds out that her current bf is a POS and realises that maybe it would have been better to truly give you a second chance (but this third item would be for your personal revengeful satisfaction)
  

 

And you have us TAMMERS to help you stay on the right path here.

 

I also understand your feelings regarding the house - but remember to think logically here. If not letting her have the house up's your alpha status then fine (I totally understand and would do the same) but at the same time you need to think about if winning out financially and transferring a financial burden to lover boy is a better option, then why not do it (especially if he realises this after the fact and takes it out on your ex).

 

Another great post.

 

One consequence of the non-molestation order is I am firmly in NC mode and have been for three weeks, this has improved my mood no end. I've even been on a date during this time with a rather attractive lady, there was no spark between us, so no harm done, but it was nice to have some female company and realize again there's a big wide world out there.

 

I have also thoroughly enjoyed the 1on1 -albeit limited- time I have had with my daughter.

[Intheclouds]

Hi everyone,

 

Not updated for a while. Was hoping I wouldn't need to.

 

I attended court 2 days ago for a final hearing on increasing access to my child. To cut a long story short, the ex informed my barrister just prior to going into the court room, that I may not be the childs biological father.

 

The court hearing was adjurned for a months time to enable DNA testing to take place.

 

My ex later contacted me to attempt to explain herself -first time I have had direct contact in months- I only really wanted to know why she has chosen now to drop this bombshell.

 

This is beyond heartbreak.

[2sunny]

Hi everyone,

 

Not updated for a while. Was hoping I wouldn't need to.

 

I attended court 2 days ago for a final hearing on increasing access to my child. To cut a long story short, the ex informed my barrister just prior to going into the court room, that I may not be the childs biological father.

 

The court hearing was adjurned for a months time to enable DNA testing to take place.

 

My ex later contacted me to attempt to explain herself -first time I have had direct contact in months- I only really wanted to know why she has chosen now to drop this bombshell.

 

This is beyond heartbreak.

 

The DNA test results will be interesting.

 

I hope she's been ordered to pay you money since she kept the house. Make sure your name is off the title and mortgage.

 

Be smart - make decisions in your best interest.

[A.Moscote]

Be patient Intheclouds, it is indeed beyond heartbreak. Hopefully you'd be calm and strong to face the result. Don't let the outcomes, your ex's deeds and claims, or this whole situation to compromise your relationship with your daughter.

 

At the same time, please be alert and careful on every legal details, who knows if there are more bends and tricks coming your way.

 

...I only really wanted to know why she has chosen now to drop this bombshell.

This just show how much hiding a wrong doing will made us transgress our values and limits, and cause more hurt in the end.

 

Be strong, and take care.

[Intheclouds]

I just don't know how I will feel or what to do if my daughter isn't biologically mine. I know my ex must have been terrified at the time she found out she was pregnant but I can't believe it.

 

Having an affair and or leaving someone is one thing but to allow a man and his family to believe a child is his and let them bond together and love unconditionally before revealing the child may not be his is a massive betrayal.

[KaliLove]

Biological or not, you still raised her. You're still her father. Even if that doesn't mean much in court (hopefully it does though), it means something to you. She's still and always will be yours.

[Davey L]

Different places have different laws on paternity. In some places if it's your name on the birth certificate, then you are the father, regardless of DNA results.

 

 

I think there's two things you need to do right now.

 

 

1. Decide, do you want to be the father of the child? You've bonded, you feel like the father, do you want to be?

 

 

2. Get some legal advice.

 

 

You need to make sure that you don't get stuffed both ways (no access, because she's not your daughter, but still paying child support).