Borderline Personality Ex

[flitzanu]

I think you need to find somewhere else to pass judgement until you've been through this type of situation.

 

you're inferring judgement in a simple question. was your ex diagnosed with BPD?

[Caliguy30]

Her personally going no. Me explaining my experience dealing with someone who acts a certain way, yes. Honestly I'm trying to be nice to you. If you are here to cause problems, I think you should go somewhere else.

[flitzanu]

Her personally going no. Me explaining my experience dealing with someone who acts a certain way, yes. Honestly I'm trying to be nice to you. If you are here to cause problems, I think you should go somewhere else.

 

why are you trying to be nice to me, like you'll hurt my feelings? it's a pretty simple question. there's no need to get defensive. i've read all the BPD stats as well and wanted to believe my ex gf was BPD. maybe she is, or maybe she just behaved like anyone else who wanted to date other people. seems to be a common thing for people to believe their ex has a mental disorder when they get dumped.

[Caliguy30]

I'm not getting defensive. To be honest. I've questioned that since I started this thread asking. From what I've learned sharing my experience I've questioned if I'm just searching for an explanation, but sharing my experience and reading about it it's like someone wrote the story of my relationship. I can say that I have had nights where I was having a great time and so was my ex she would be saying she loves me and wants to spend the rest of her life with me then say she'll never be good enough when we go to bed. She'll cause arguments out of good times. I'll be trying to share a success and she'll bring me down. There would never be a medium share in a relationship of happiness. She would literally change anything to be a focus on her. Try to change anything to be all about her. Push pull and creating her own reality of a situation. Trust me I've sat and thought am I grasping for an explanation for my heartache and am I just hurt. I've had real breakups, but this is just far from it. I'm sorry if I came off as defensive, but I'm here for help and support.

[sunny_eyes]

I'm not getting defensive. To be honest. I've questioned that since I started this thread asking. From what I've learned sharing my experience I've questioned if I'm just searching for an explanation, but sharing my experience and reading about it it's like someone wrote the story of my relationship. I can say that I have had nights where I was having a great time and so was my ex she would be saying she loves me and wants to spend the rest of her life with me then say she'll never be good enough when we go to bed. She'll cause arguments out of good times. I'll be trying to share a success and she'll bring me down. There would never be a medium share in a relationship of happiness. She would literally change anything to be a focus on her. Try to change anything to be all about her. Push pull and creating her own reality of a situation. Trust me I've sat and thought am I grasping for an explanation for my heartache and am I just hurt. I've had real breakups, but this is just far from it. I'm sorry if I came off as defensive, but I'm here for help and support.

 

 

Sorry for your loss. I hope that you can at least wish her the best. She's obviously not well and i hope you can heal properly from this.

Edited May 1, 2014 by sunny_eyes

[Downtown]

you're inferring judgement in a simple question. was your ex diagnosed with BPD?

Flit, I agree with Cali that your question was at least "judgmental," if not insulting. Your question was not limited to asking about a diagnosis, as you now suggest. Rather, you asked, "have anyone's exes been diagnosed as BPD, or is this just the stigma everyone is putting on them looking for an excuse for their poor behavior?"

Hence, you were asking Calif to choose between (a) his Ex having been "diagnosed as BPD" and (b) him "looking for an excuse for their poor behavior." You therefore are making the judgment that, if the Ex was not diagnosed, Calif must be looking for a "stigma" to excuse her bad behavior. You ignore the many other alternatives that exist, e.g., that Cali is simply trying to make sense out of what happened to him -- or that Cali is trying to learn the warning signs to avoid running right into the arms of another woman like his Ex.

[Downtown]

Stop putting your Ex on the sofa and psychoanalyzing her.

TH, there is a world of difference between identifying BPD warning signs -- which is what Cali is doing -- and trying to diagnose or "psychoanalyze" a person. In an effort to educate the lay public about those warning signs, hundreds of the best mental health centers list those BPD symptoms on their websites. This is not done to promote "psychoanalyzing" -- as you say -- but, rather, to encourage people to seek help. The health centers know that, when the lay public are able to spot the warning signs, they are far more likely to seek help and to do so quickly.

 

It takes the focus off the one person that matters, YOU!

I disagree. Those of us who have been in a relationship with a person with strong BPD traits for nearly two years -- as Cali has -- usually have excessive empathy and weak personal boundaries. The result is that we have great difficulty knowing where our problems stop and the other person's problems begin.

 

My experience is that, because it is far easier to see another person's problems than your own, the quickest was to disentangle yourself from a BPDer is to spend a few days reading about BPD so as to understand where HER problems begin. Then, by subtraction, you are better able to see your own problems, i.e., your role as the enabler and excessive caregiver. Further, by learning about BPD warning signs, it is far easier to focus on yourself because you will quickly realize it is impossible for you to fix her.

[ThatMan]

have anyone's exes been diagnosed as BPD, or is this just the stigma everyone is putting on them looking for an excuse for their poor behavior?

Yes, I've been involved with someone who was formally diagnosed with BPD during our relationship together. The psychiatrist who diagnosed her risked his license and broke the law to inform me of his diagnosis for my own protection. Officially, she was diagnosed as bipolar disorder. Health care professionals protect their clients/patients by withholding the BPD diagnosis from them and leaving it out of their medical history. He risked his entire career because she was a danger to herself, to me, and it'll only be a matter of time before her murder attempts on either of us would succeed. Involuntary commitment takes a lot these days and we didn't have enough to commit her in a psych ward. So this psychiatrist went out of his way to protect me since he couldn't do anything for her.

 

I imagine that people focus on the features of the disorder, relate to whatever they've read, and discuss those behaviors. Whether or not there's a formal diagnosis is irrelevant to the fact that these features inevitability lead to the suffering of others. So yes, BPD or non-BPD, it doesn't matter. These behaviors hurt other people, and those with BPD, by it's very definition, entails unstable relationships. This is about learning to say no to abusive behavior.

Edited May 1, 2014 by ThatMan

[Caliguy30]

We are into months as I kept taking her back and allowing myself to get hurt. I have only recently realized it's a lost cause and decided it's time to work on myself. I started this thread months ago, but refused to believe that her recycles were her really trying to work it out. Or being yelled at about the fact I wanted to just hang out with my friends or at the same time her threatening to cheat on me. Yea, I understand it's been months I get it, but I'm 2 weeks in to no contact and really just been posting on here instead of reaching out. Venting about my hurt and frustration. You seem like a strong person that's good I'm happy for you. I have realized I have my own issues.

[ThatMan]

I agree that being objective and direct is good. But I was under the distinct impression that what we see here is akin to, http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/coping/117844-post-here-instead-contacting-your-ex

 

One idea to the creation of a bullet point list detailing the answers to those questions above. What do I need to work on? What have I already attempted?

 

But TH,

From what I've seen I can tell you're unfamiliar with unhealthy relationships and the absence of boundaries. So to answer your other questions, yeah, he does appear to be figuring out these boundary issues at a glance. He'll get there eventually but it may take at least some length of time.

[starryeyedsurprise]

Some of us are on here because we truly did deal with someone who had a problem. Being in a relationship with a “personality disorder” is terrifying and takes a toll on the other person involved. For example, my ex has been in and out of treatment since he was 16 years old. 3 times he was institutionalized, has been in and out of therapy and guess what, they could not put a diagnosis on him. He was tested for bi-polar, OCD, ADD, etc…….That is because he is so good at covering up his disorder, these are the people that will never get help because they don’t want the help. They don’t think anything is technically wrong with them.

 

Their brains are not programmed with empathy and compassion. Yes, they can get upset over certain things, but the “personality disorder” takes over. They have different coping mechanism skills. They deal with life and people differently than the “normal” person. This is not to say they are bad people, they just deal with life in a different way. To each his own.

 

I am on here not to blast my ex, or get sympathy. Yes, he has done cruel and terrible things like lying and cheating, but it’s not a personal attack on me. This is who he is, and he will continue to be this way.

 

 

So many relationships end, so many people get hurt, some don’t know how to cope and yes try to put a label on their ex. In my case, he does have a personailty disorder, and there are times that he admits he needs help. Will he get the help? Probably not, he is in his mid-30’s and is trying the best that he can with the tools that he has.

 

I am in therapy as well, and yes I have issues. I am co-dependent and have abandonment issues. Put someone like me with someone like him and it will cause an issue, and a lot of pain. I am doing the best to put the focus on me now, and it will be a hard long road. Yes, I loved my ex, but it was a toxic relationship.

Edited May 1, 2014 by starryeyedsurprise

[Caliguy30]

What am I doing? I'm trying to put my life back together. I've broken up and been broken up with in different relationships. None have been as hard as this. Boundaries? I set boundaries. It got me cheated on. I have always rushed into relationships. I slowed the beginning of this down and she didn't think I was interested so she cheated on me. What caused the pain and allowed it to continue? Low self esteem. What made me stay through all the fighting? Caring for someone. What made me stay when she would push pull? Hope that some day it could be normal. But it can't.

[Caliguy30]

And I was stupid and checked Facebook, which I defriended her months ago. All I saw was that she changed her photo. It was stupid and causes thoughts, but at least I haven't said anything to her.

[flitzanu]

Flit, I agree with Cali that your question was at least "judgmental," if not insulting. Your question was not limited to asking about a diagnosis, as you now suggest. Rather, you asked, "have anyone's exes been diagnosed as BPD, or is this just the stigma everyone is putting on them looking for an excuse for their poor behavior?"

Hence, you were asking Calif to choose between (a) his Ex having been "diagnosed as BPD" and (b) him "looking for an excuse for their poor behavior." You therefore are making the judgment that, if the Ex was not diagnosed, Calif must be looking for a "stigma" to excuse her bad behavior. You ignore the many other alternatives that exist, e.g., that Cali is simply trying to make sense out of what happened to him -- or that Cali is trying to learn the warning signs to avoid running right into the arms of another woman like his Ex.

 

ok. isn't that really how simple it is? if someone doesn't have a disorder, that therefore means they behave that way for another reason. if not BPD, then we are looking for that other reason, i.e. "excuse" for their poor behavior.

 

presuming my ex is BPD didn't fix the situation or make things any different. does it help you to believe that, Downtown?

[flitzanu]

. This is about learning to say no to abusive behavior.

 

this here is the part anyone should focus on though, and in that aspect you're right that it doesn't matter if someone is formally diagnosed or not. some people are just a-holes without behavior disorders and don't need real labels. well, in my opinion at least.

[KaliLove]

this here is the part anyone should focus on though, and in that aspect you're right that it doesn't matter if someone is formally diagnosed or not. some people are just a-holes without behavior disorders and don't need real labels. well, in my opinion at least.

 

Maybe it makes people feel better to think their exes have behavior disorders or mental illnesses. I'm sure some do and some don't. What's the harm in thinking that about someone you're probably never going to see again if it makes you feel a little better? If it repairs your self esteem a little bit?

 

What's the point in trying to burst Cali's bubble?

 

From what Cali has told us, I do believe his ex is BPD, but even if I didn't, I don't see the harm in him believing that she is if it helps him get through the break up.

[Downtown]

If someone doesn't have a disorder, that therefore means they behave that way for another reason.

Flit, a personality disorder like BPD is not something one "has" or "doesn't have." Rather, everyone has it to some degree. This is why BPD and other PDs are said to be "spectrum disorders," which means we all occasionally exhibit all of the BPD traits. At issue, then, is not whether Cali's Ex is exhibiting BPD traits. Of course she is. We all are.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she is exhibiting them at such a strong and persistent level that they are seriously undermining her close relationships by distorting her perceptions of other peoples' intentions. Significantly, even when a person's BPD traits fall well short of the diagnostic threshold for "having BPD," they still can be strong enough to destroy a marriage and make your life miserable. Hence, learning that a therapist has declared someone to "not have BPD" does NOT mean they would be safe to marry.

 

The current APA diagnostic guidelines -- wherein one is declared to "have" or "not have" BPD -- make no sense for a set of basic human behavioral traits that vary in degree from person to person. Indeed, this dichotomous approach to diagnosis made no sense when it was adopted in 1980 because it is the equivalent of declaring everyone over 300 pounds to be "fat" and everyone under that weight to be "skinny." It also is equivalent to declaring everyone over 6'6" to be "tall" and everyone else to be "short."

 

What is needed, of course, is a graduated (not dichotomous) approach to diagnosis -- wherein one is said to have BPD traits to some varying degree. The APA understands the need for this change and intends to adopt it when further empirical research demonstrates what gradations are most useful in a clinical setting. I mention all of this simply to explain why it is so important to learn the warning signs for various PDs when you are looking for a potential mate. Learning that a potential mate has been determined to "not have a PD" provides you no protection at all.

 

The reason is that the threshold test for "having a PD" is set at an extremely high level that cannot be used for the purpose of deciding whether someone would be a good marriage partner. The threshold was set at that high level under great pressure from insurance companies (who don't want to cover PD treatments), the courts (who don't want to institutionalize people), and therapists (who don't want to drive away their clients with scary sounding labels).

[ConfusedHumanBeing]

ok. isn't that really how simple it is? if someone doesn't have a disorder, that therefore means they behave that way for another reason. if not BPD, then we are looking for that other reason, i.e. "excuse" for their poor behavior.

 

presuming my ex is BPD didn't fix the situation or make things any different. does it help you to believe that, Downtown?

 

It's gotten to the point to where if an ex breaks up with you, he/she has some sort of disorder.

 

How dare you fitz!!!!

[ThatMan]

this here is the part anyone should focus on though, and in that aspect you're right that it doesn't matter if someone is formally diagnosed or not. some people are just a-holes without behavior disorders and don't need real labels. well, in my opinion at least.

You're opinion is wrong.

 

It might be true that we don't need to label every jerk out there. There is also difference between choosing to be a jerk and sickness. Spend any length of time with a person who was so severely abused as a child to the point that their development is permanently stunted, watch on as they're constantly triggered and brought back to a place of vulnerability, and then maybe you'll begin to understand what real sickness is. These people never had the choice to have a severe psychiatric disorder. Jerks do have a willing choice in their behavior, they're not children trapped inside an adult body, and they do not spend their entire life reacting to the world from a state of vulnerability. Jerks will interact with their spouses in entirely different manners than a spouse with borderline personality disorder. The aftermath of any failed BPD relationship will present entirely different obstacles to overcome. Those whose lives have been touched by someone with BPD must overcome adversity that some won't ever experience even from violent relationships. Discussing jerks in relationships is a completely separate topic.

 

People relate to the features of BPD, which are features that we all possess to some degree or another, and focus on that. These features are separate from the choices to be a poor spouse. Many will never know in any official capacity whether or not their spouse had a personality disorder. All they may determine are the unhealthy characteristics of a spouse, which is separate from the willing choices of a spouse. Involvement with those who are BPD is like having your flesh ripped out, being discarded to the curb, and shivering in the cold with nothing more than your bare bones. Some try their best to remain warm and be okay. But things will never be okay the same way again despite varying success.

Edited May 6, 2014 by ThatMan

[Caliguy30]

I'm so sick of trying to defend the situation I've been in while sharing what's going on with my situation in a place I thought was for trying to get better. While I've never pretended to be an expert on my situation, all I've done is my research and sharing with a professional and here. I didn't even know anything about borderlines until I shared my experience with a professional and he mentioned it. It's like explaining to a blind person what colors are, while that's a drastic comparison it's the only thing I can think of right now to explain a situation that unless you've dealt with someone who has exemplified borderline traits and you finally come out of it, you realize what's been going on.

 

Again, never tried to act like a professional, just seeking help from others. If you want to insult the people who have been supportive on my thread while also never trying to OFFICIALLY diagnose my ex, go to another thread. If you don't have something supportive to say go share with someone else. This site is supposed to be about support.

[flitzanu]

It's gotten to the point to where if an ex breaks up with you, he/she has some sort of disorder.

 

How dare you fitz!!!!

 

this is the underlying question. is it healthy to encourage that if we are dumped then our ex must absolutely be BPD or a Narcissist? i'm simply encouraging discussing their bad behavior as just that...behavior, and also that the more time you waste focusing on every detail of diagnosing your ex is still time FOCUSING ON THEM instead of focusing on YOU moving forward with the situation.

[Downtown]

This is the underlying question. is it healthy to encourage that if we are dumped then our ex must absolutely be BPD or a Narcissist?

No, Flit, that is not "the underlying question." No respondent in this thread has pretended to be able to tell Cali -- without even meeting his Ex -- whether his Ex "must absolutely be BPD or a Narcissist."

 

i'm simply encouraging discussing their bad behavior as just that...behavior.

So is everyone else on this thread. Everyone is simply discussing behavior. BPD and NPD are NOT diseases. Rather, they are only groups of behavioral traits. Hence, the only difference between most other posters and you is that you are discussing a behavioral trait (e.g., verbal abusive) in isolation. Most of the rest of us on this thread are discussing the behavioral traits in combination to encourage Cali to decide whether that group of behaviors closely tracks the pattern of behaviors known as BPD or NPD.

 

We do this because, if you look at only one behavioral trait at a time, you will have little or no understanding of another person's motivations and intentions. When you find a well-known combination of five or more behaviors, however, you can easily increase your understanding ten-fold, if not a hundred-fold.

 

The more time you waste focusing on every detail of diagnosing your ex is still time FOCUSING ON THEM instead of focusing on YOU moving forward with the situation.

You confuse "diagnosing" (which is extremely difficult) with "spotting warning signs" (which is easy). As I noted earlier, Flit, thousands of medical centers are posting the warning signs for numerous disorders on their websites to encourage the lay public to become better educated at spotting these signs. The purpose is not to encourage the public to self-diagnose but, rather, to spot warning signs so they realize they should see a professional to find out if they have a serious disorder.

 

Similarly, hundreds of medical centers are posting BPD and NPD warning signs on their websites for the same purpose. Like Cali, you are fully capable of spotting those signs. Indeed, before you even graduated from high school, you already could identify the selfish and very grandiose classmates -- without knowing how to diagnose Narcissistic PD. You could identify the class drama queen -- without being able to diagnose Histrionic PD. You could spot the kids having no respect for laws or other peoples' property or feelings -- without diagnosing Antisocial PD. And you could recognize the very shy and over-sensitive classmates -- without diagnosing Avoidant PD. Likewise, you will be able to spot strong BPD traits when they occur if you take a little time to learn what to look for.

[flitzanu]

1. Impulsive and risky behavior, such as risky driving, unsafe sex, gambling sprees or illegal drug use

2. Awareness of destructive behavior, including self-injury, but sometimes feeling unable to change it

3. Wide mood swings

4. Short but intense episodes of anxiety or depression

5. Inappropriate anger and antagonistic behavior, sometimes escalating into physical fights

6. Difficulty controlling emotions or impulses

7. Suicidal behavior

8. Feeling misunderstood, neglected, alone, empty or hopeless

9. Fear of being alone

10. Feelings of self-hate and self-loathing

 

1. -- my ex

2. -- my ex

3. -- my ex

4. -- my ex

5. -- my ex

6. -- my ex

7. -- not my ex

8. -- my ex

9. -- my ex

10. -- my ex

 

my ex fits 9 out of these 10 symptoms.

[Eddiethemunster]

Has anyone dated an ex with undiagnosed BPD? I've had to seek help for what I've been dealing with the constant back and forth I want you I don't, plus all other signs. My help said that she is borderline and all the articles I read online point to the same. Apparently these breakups are really hard for the non BPD person leaving you to feel how I do. I've posted before thinking this was a normal breakup, but it has turned out ugly. She constantly tells me she wants to be with me then as soon as I open up I get dropped. She is not aware of the things she says it's like dealing with a 3 year old and everything is my fault somehow. Constantly walking on eggshells. I know everyone is going to say go NC, but I'm looking for help for my own sanity.

 

 

Run run run away, from my experience these chics are to be avoided. My female friend's refer to them as one of those types! Chic's who feel secure to be wanted.

 

The worst thing is its a tactical mind game minefield out there.

[Downtown]

7. Suicidal behavior -- not my ex.

Flit, the vast majority of BPDers (i.e., those displaying strong traits) are high-functioning people who do not exhibit suicidal behavior. With BPDers, such behavior usually is seen in the low-functioning folks. Hence, if your Ex exhibits most BPD warning signs at a strong and persistent level, it is very unlikely she would be showing suicidal traits.