I am not indifferent

[Mr. Lucky]

Frankly, I think you're right that another year will result in a better perspective. Thr one thing I lacked thru this whole process was patience.

 

We'll have to see about mastering my thoughts. That one is elusive, too.

I just wanted to comment that the thoughts don't go away. It's been 25 years since I divorced my cheating ex-wife - and I'm happily remarried -and I still get the flash of anger when I see her. What grows over time is your understanding of those feelings and a "place" you develop internally to put them.

 

BH, have you ever successfully dieted? To me, the process is similar. Those junk food impulses don't go away, instead you develop an awareness of how to deal with them based on seeing them as harmful to the life you want to live.

 

Keep taking the high road ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Got it]

It's been said that the opposite of love is not hate; it's indifference. That's always seemed to ring true to me. Oddly, I don't think I love, nor hate, nor feel indifferent towards my exwife. I agree that it's too soon to be over it. But that seems a reasonable goal, to have much less of an emotional investment, to not care, to be indifferent.

 

My daughter has a girl scout event this Saturday and the families have been asked to bring a picnic lunch. My exwife's parents are likely to attend. They don't acknowledge or speak to me (haven't since it all happened). How is that going to work? I guess I bring lunch for myself. My GF has offered to come and be with me but I think that just makes it all more uncomfortable and awkward. I'd rather just be ostracized than to risk a blow up.

 

Why would there be a blow up? And why is it your responsibility to control that? I say bring your girlfriend and if someone reacts poorly then that is on them. You are not doing anything wrong by doing so are you?

 

Why should you be odd man out?

[96nole]

My daughter has a girl scout event this Saturday and the families have been asked to bring a picnic lunch. My exwife's parents are likely to attend. They don't acknowledge or speak to me (haven't since it all happened). How is that going to work? I guess I bring lunch for myself. My GF has offered to come and be with me but I think that just makes it all more uncomfortable and awkward. I'd rather just be ostracized than to risk a blow up.

Awkward for who? Who's going to cause a blow up?

The divorce has been final for a while now. It's all the ex's fault you're divorced. Doesn't everyone already know you are with your girlfriend? Your former inlaws already don't talk to you, so who cares what they think. You'd probably have more fun with your GF there.

[96nole]

Soulmate hunting outfit? I am not aware of this. I need a visual, stat!

 

Oh wait- is this the back dress and heels- it's coming back to me I think...

Black dress and heels - underwear = soulmate hunting outfit

[Betterthanthis13]

Black dress and heels - underwear = soulmate hunting outfit

 

 

whoa... I'm backing out of this little excursion then- that hardly seems like an appropriate outfit for a Girl Scout picnic! Ack!! Lol

[ChooseTruth]

 

whoa... I'm backing out of this little excursion then- that hardly seems like an appropriate outfit for a Girl Scout picnic! Ack!! Lol

 

Haha, that's what Furious said.

[Spotme]

BH, I don't have any answers on if, how, or when one can achieve indifference, so let's talk about this Girl Scout picnic. Two major things we BS learn are that we can only control our own actions (some days are better than others for that) and we have to face things head on. So you are not just looking at one picnic, you are looking at coping for a lifetime for your little girl's sake. So set the tone this weekend. If possible, make cookies or some other shareable item with your daughter, if not, buy something. Bring extra drinks and some fruit. When you get there, walk up to the ex in-laws, make eye contact if possible and say "Hello John and Mary. Good to see you. I know Sally is glad we are all here today for her event. Help yourself to some cookies that Sally and I made and there is some good watermelon and lots of extra water bottles too." Best odds are that you will get a stuttered and muttered response this time, but with time, you can probably train them up to be civil, and these events will get better. Same goes for your ex. Just keep behaving to the standard you want to hold yourself to, because I think that's the guy you are inside, not the guy skulking on the edge of an unwelcoming group eating a sandwich. And maybe, just maybe, faking it til you make it will bring on the indifference.

[BetrayedH]

Awkward for who? Who's going to cause a blow up?

The divorce has been final for a while now. It's all the ex's fault you're divorced. Doesn't everyone already know you are with your girlfriend? Your former inlaws already don't talk to you, so who cares what they think. You'd probably have more fun with your GF there.

 

I just know this family. I guarantee they don't approve of the fact that I had a GF prior to the divorce finalizing. They also don't know some of the more heinous things about my ex (such as the blog). The blame in their mind rests squarely on my shoulders. They would see me bringing another woman there as something selfish and damaging to my daughter. Instead of silence, I think snotty comments would probably happen.

 

I know that what they do would be on them but the reality is that the day is not about me, or my exwife, or my ex inlaws, or my GF.

 

I like the idea of bringing an excessive amount of food and making it available. I prefer the high road.

[drifter777]

BH: What's up with all of this? I can't believe you've regressed a year in the past week so there must be something that has cranked you up emotionally. I mean, you're asking things that are basically "how long will it take until I'm over this?" or "why am I still angry?". Are you still seeing a counselor? If not I urge you to consider it because you are the kind of person that infidelity crushes harder than most. Even though you are usually capable of acting as if you accept and are moving on, you're still doing the "fake it 'till you make it" thing - which is the only thing you are capable of right now. And if you never get to the level of healing it takes to feel indifferent toward you WW, so be it. As long as you can be civil for the sake of the kids then you are doing much, much better than most BH's. I hope you talk to a counselor about all of this.

[candie13]

BH, as you know, I've never been married, but I have had a few relationships that were pretty hard on emotional implication.

 

The thing is, in such a long relationship, marriage, when one of the partners truly and deeply hurts the other, chances are, the damaged party will hurt the aggressor right back. Rightfully so, but will inflict pain, nonetheless. Add the web of lies, getting the truth out, it's like a spiral of death that drags both of you down, destroys both of you.

 

What I am trying to say is, the infidelity destroyed your ex as well. She cheated on you, but you have punished her again and again. And then some more. And the truth is, BH, no matter how much you try, you will never hurt her again to make up for the pain she inflicted you. And even if you manage to find just the right way of making her suffer just as much as you did or even more, your hurt will not stop.

 

In my humble opinion, you have tried and tried to get your anger on her, you've divorced her, hoping that it would make you feel better, but it just doesn't work this way.

 

It is even possible that your ex wife might have tried to say she was sorry, might have tried to express her regrets, but you might have been so hurt, so worked up that you simply didn't hear them.

 

It is horrible to live with all that anger inside. All that resentment. All that frustration and hate. But if it stays with you, it's because it touches a very deep chord inside. Yes, she did a horrible horrible thing to you, but you did not deserve it. So, if it stays with to this point, maybe it's because it touches one of your core beliefs, such as : "I am never good enough" or "I have to be perfect to be loved. I am not perfect, therefore I do not deserve to be loved". I think that once you dig deeper, beyond the relationship with your wife and face that false internal belief, I think you will be able to deal with your hurt and woulds a little bit easier.

 

Remember the bf I kept mentioning in the sex forum? Despite our sexual compatibility, he proved to be self centered and hurt me time over and over and over again, until I dumped him. And he really really wants me back. But... doesn't admit any wrong doing. He will stick around though, saying that he missed me and talking about his feelings. And no matter how much I hurt him, how much I try to punish him, not having how I feel acknowledged is just... terrible. Him not understanding, him not accepting any fault, despite everything I make him go through, it's just not good enough.

 

I've had an epiphany yesterday: my epiphany was that I felt that my ex bf was keeping me away, was preventing me from being happy with him. The holidays we could have had, the long walks, the long talks, the happiness we could have had together. But if he wasn't giving these things to me, it's because I was not part of his happiness. Or even part of his life, for that matter.

 

So how can I be mad at him?

 

BH, I am sick and tired of being unhappy. Really really tired. I want to be happy. And I realize that I will be. I will meet a guy who will give me those things, without even me asking. Who will care for me, will want to know me and take care of me. It's just that this person is not him.

 

Understanding that, accepting that, helped me let go of my anger. Of my frustration. But then, we weren't even dating for one year, I guess it's easier to give up my dreams with a man who wasn't even married to me, compared to a woman who was your wife for almost 20 years.

 

He never said he was sorry or apologized for any of the lies he said or horrible things he did to me. Last weekend, he bought me flowers. He was so scared of my reaction that he didn't even have the courage to meet me and offer them to me.

 

I guess, in his own way, he wanted to show me that he cared. He sent me a picture with the flowers and I found that soothing. It's the best he could do.

 

I guess anger and rage are normal, when there is so much hurt, so many expectations involved. The only way out, for me, was to understand and accept how my ex bf is. That his actions, as much as I hated it, had nothing to do with me, but everything to do with him. His actions were not oriented against ME. It was all about HIM and the immediate gratification of his needs. I didn't even exist. The consequences of his own actions onto me didn't even exist.

 

Understanding that I was not on his priority list, after all this time, he was purely selfish, to that extent... it just showed me it wasn't him, that guy for me. Therefore, I cannot hold him accountable for my happiness.

 

That was my big shock. What helped me let go of my anger. Seeing the reality for what it was. Cold.

 

I know that I was in a way lucky. Had he been nice to me, had he also emotionally invested, along side with me, and then hurt me the same way your ex hurt you, it would have been a lot harder to give up on him. On "us" as I imagined it to be.

 

Bottom line is: my anger melted away the moment I've realized he is not accountable for me and my happiness. If he were, he would have done something in that direction, instead of constantly inflicting pain.

 

Anger was wearing me down. It was sooo heavy, it was poisoning me. My life. It was so vivid, so intense, it was burning me inside.

 

I hope you manage to find peace, BH. I hope you understand how to get rid of that anger. I wish you well.

[Betterthanthis13]

I just know this family. I guarantee they don't approve of the fact that I had a GF prior to the divorce finalizing. They also don't know some of the more heinous things about my ex (such as the blog). The blame in their mind rests squarely on my shoulders. They would see me bringing another woman there as something selfish and damaging to my daughter. Instead of silence, I think snotty comments would probably happen.

 

I know that what they do would be on them but the reality is that the day is not about me, or my exwife, or my ex inlaws, or my GF.

 

I like the idea of bringing an excessive amount of food and making it available. I prefer the high road.

 

High road is always the way to go.

 

[96nole]

I just know this family. I guarantee they don't approve of the fact that I had a GF prior to the divorce finalizing. They also don't know some of the more heinous things about my ex (such as the blog). The blame in their mind rests squarely on my shoulders. They would see me bringing another woman there as something selfish and damaging to my daughter. Instead of silence, I think snotty comments would probably happen.

 

I know that what they do would be on them but the reality is that the day is not about me, or my exwife, or my ex inlaws, or my GF.

 

I like the idea of bringing an excessive amount of food and making it available. I prefer the high road.

Understandable.

Hopefully they find out the full truth one day.

[Artie Lang]

i say you take your GF to this shindig. why should you be left in the corner, shunned by these people. it shows them that you are moving on.

[candie13]

It depends on how serious / good the relationship between you and your gf is. Six months is early, but then, you both have children...

 

Personally, I wouldn't have all the family involved just yet. Play it safe and screw what everybody thinks or says. They don't know the reality, they don't know the hell you've been through and they certainly haven't lived with your wife, to judge.

[Spotme]

I just know this family. I guarantee they don't approve of the fact that I had a GF prior to the divorce finalizing. They also don't know some of the more heinous things about my ex (such as the blog). The blame in their mind rests squarely on my shoulders. They would see me bringing another woman there as something selfish and damaging to my daughter. Instead of silence, I think snotty comments would probably happen.

 

I know that what they do would be on them but the reality is that the day is not about me, or my exwife, or my ex inlaws, or my GF.

 

I like the idea of bringing an excessive amount of food and making it available. I prefer the high road.

 

So basically your ex's lies are still biting *you* in the a$$. And if you tried to set it straight it would make things worse between you and her and the in-laws probably wouldn't believe you anyway. That sucks and I admire you for still going the high road. I think that might be the only way to feel good about yourself in this situation. I would not bring your girlfriend, as you've already decided, no need to confuse or inflame the situation when your goal is to give your daughter a nice day and start to lay the groundwork for less painful future interactions.

[atreides]

It's been said that the opposite of love is not hate; it's indifference. That's always seemed to ring true to me.

 

It is true, but you are investing too much worry into why you care. I would say stop and let life be and with time things will change.

 

My daughter has a girl scout event this Saturday and the families have been asked to bring a picnic lunch. My exwife's parents are likely to attend. They don't acknowledge or speak to me (haven't since it all happened). How is that going to work? I guess I bring lunch for myself. My GF has offered to come and be with me but I think that just makes it all more uncomfortable and awkward. I'd rather just be ostracized than to risk a blow up.

 

yes have your GF there, stop carrying the extra weight of what your ex did on your shoulders. It does not matter how it is going to work with her parents, you are their for your daughter and so are they. If they don't speak to you, so be it. Again you can't take the weight of action or inaction of others in that you have no control over it. But you can take control of your own actions and what you do from here.

[atreides]

I just know this family. I guarantee they don't approve of the fact that I had a GF prior to the divorce finalizing. They also don't know some of the more heinous things about my ex (such as the blog). The blame in their mind rests squarely on my shoulders.

 

Oh... if it were me, the first thing i would have done because so much was invested is to explain why I left their daughter.

 

I would still expose that now to them, even years later because they could and i have seen this poison your children to think otherwise against your wishes.

 

That's just me though, i would have definitely said something along the lines of "this is why i left her" Honestly it erks me a bit that they don't know, i thought they were not speaking to you because they were ashamed. You have a really unique case in how evil and downright pre-meditated she was with you, I would definitely make her parents proud of their daughter.

 

There is no high or low road when the truth will set you free.

Edited September 17, 2013 by atreides

[BetrayedH]

BH: What's up with all of this? I can't believe you've regressed a year in the past week so there must be something that has cranked you up emotionally. I mean, you're asking things that are basically "how long will it take until I'm over this?" or "why am I still angry?". Are you still seeing a counselor? If not I urge you to consider it because you are the kind of person that infidelity crushes harder than most. Even though you are usually capable of acting as if you accept and are moving on, you're still doing the "fake it 'till you make it" thing - which is the only thing you are capable of right now. And if you never get to the level of healing it takes to feel indifferent toward you WW, so be it. As long as you can be civil for the sake of the kids then you are doing much, much better than most BH's. I hope you talk to a counselor about all of this.

 

Oh, I wouldn't get too concerned, Drifter. It was a slow weekend on LS and I found myself musing on this so I decided to start my own thread. No matter how you slice it, being divorced is not something I'm an expert at. To be certain, my study of infidelity has helped tangentially but sometimes I want to hear opinions other than my own. It's been a while since I asked opinions on my own scenario. I suppose the divorce forum may have been a better place but the connection to my ex's infidelity is extraordinary so this forum seemed appropriate, too. I wanted to see if other found better ways to put it behind them.

 

As for therapy, I gave up on it a long time ago (before my ex and I had even separated). The three therapists I used were either worthless or frankly, counterproductive. I'm also now self-employed so I don't have health insurance. I'm not so sure that I've regressed; I'm just looking forward to the days when it's not such a prevalent thing in my life. People say you move somewhat fluidly thru the stages of grief and while I think I've been pretty consistent at being in the acceptance stage, I do experience the others from time to time. Experiencing new bull crap somewhat routinely is part of the problem.

[BetrayedH]

BH, as you know, I've never been married, but I have had a few relationships that were pretty hard on emotional implication.

 

The thing is, in such a long relationship, marriage, when one of the partners truly and deeply hurts the other, chances are, the damaged party will hurt the aggressor right back. Rightfully so, but will inflict pain, nonetheless. Add the web of lies, getting the truth out, it's like a spiral of death that drags both of you down, destroys both of you.

 

What I am trying to say is, the infidelity destroyed your ex as well. She cheated on you, but you have punished her again and again. And then some more. And the truth is, BH, no matter how much you try, you will never hurt her again to make up for the pain she inflicted you. And even if you manage to find just the right way of making her suffer just as much as you did or even more, your hurt will not stop.

 

In my humble opinion, you have tried and tried to get your anger on her, you've divorced her, hoping that it would make you feel better, but it just doesn't work this way.

 

It is even possible that your ex wife might have tried to say she was sorry, might have tried to express her regrets, but you might have been so hurt, so worked up that you simply didn't hear them.

 

It is horrible to live with all that anger inside. All that resentment. All that frustration and hate. But if it stays with you, it's because it touches a very deep chord inside. Yes, she did a horrible horrible thing to you, but you did not deserve it. So, if it stays with to this point, maybe it's because it touches one of your core beliefs, such as : "I am never good enough" or "I have to be perfect to be loved. I am not perfect, therefore I do not deserve to be loved". I think that once you dig deeper, beyond the relationship with your wife and face that false internal belief, I think you will be able to deal with your hurt and woulds a little bit easier.

 

Remember the bf I kept mentioning in the sex forum? Despite our sexual compatibility, he proved to be self centered and hurt me time over and over and over again, until I dumped him. And he really really wants me back. But... doesn't admit any wrong doing. He will stick around though, saying that he missed me and talking about his feelings. And no matter how much I hurt him, how much I try to punish him, not having how I feel acknowledged is just... terrible. Him not understanding, him not accepting any fault, despite everything I make him go through, it's just not good enough.

 

I've had an epiphany yesterday: my epiphany was that I felt that my ex bf was keeping me away, was preventing me from being happy with him. The holidays we could have had, the long walks, the long talks, the happiness we could have had together. But if he wasn't giving these things to me, it's because I was not part of his happiness. Or even part of his life, for that matter.

 

So how can I be mad at him?

 

BH, I am sick and tired of being unhappy. Really really tired. I want to be happy. And I realize that I will be. I will meet a guy who will give me those things, without even me asking. Who will care for me, will want to know me and take care of me. It's just that this person is not him.

 

Understanding that, accepting that, helped me let go of my anger. Of my frustration. But then, we weren't even dating for one year, I guess it's easier to give up my dreams with a man who wasn't even married to me, compared to a woman who was your wife for almost 20 years.

 

He never said he was sorry or apologized for any of the lies he said or horrible things he did to me. Last weekend, he bought me flowers. He was so scared of my reaction that he didn't even have the courage to meet me and offer them to me.

 

I guess, in his own way, he wanted to show me that he cared. He sent me a picture with the flowers and I found that soothing. It's the best he could do.

 

I guess anger and rage are normal, when there is so much hurt, so many expectations involved. The only way out, for me, was to understand and accept how my ex bf is. That his actions, as much as I hated it, had nothing to do with me, but everything to do with him. His actions were not oriented against ME. It was all about HIM and the immediate gratification of his needs. I didn't even exist. The consequences of his own actions onto me didn't even exist.

 

Understanding that I was not on his priority list, after all this time, he was purely selfish, to that extent... it just showed me it wasn't him, that guy for me. Therefore, I cannot hold him accountable for my happiness.

 

That was my big shock. What helped me let go of my anger. Seeing the reality for what it was. Cold.

 

I know that I was in a way lucky. Had he been nice to me, had he also emotionally invested, along side with me, and then hurt me the same way your ex hurt you, it would have been a lot harder to give up on him. On "us" as I imagined it to be.

 

Bottom line is: my anger melted away the moment I've realized he is not accountable for me and my happiness. If he were, he would have done something in that direction, instead of constantly inflicting pain.

 

Anger was wearing me down. It was sooo heavy, it was poisoning me. My life. It was so vivid, so intense, it was burning me inside.

 

I hope you manage to find peace, BH. I hope you understand how to get rid of that anger. I wish you well.

 

A good post and I appreciate your reply.

 

I suppose I needed a good reminder that this was about her and not about me. She would even say the same thing. It's hard not to internalize it as rejection. And I do think our longevity makes the process a longer one.

 

Good points, too, about me punishing her. That may really be something I need to let go of. My life was majorly impacted by all of this, and still is. But getting my pound of flesh isn't helping. Hmm.

[BetrayedH]

i say you take your GF to this shindig. why should you be left in the corner, shunned by these people. it shows them that you are moving on.

 

Fortunately, that problem has solved itself. She didn't invite her parents so it'll just be the three of us and I'm bringing lunch. But I agree with your sentiments. I went thru the ostracized thing with them all once last year and it was a crap experience. Part of my hesitation was also a desire to shield my GF from that crap (even though she was more than willing). My inlaws are actually a much more significant problem than my exwife. It's clear that they've taken a vow to never speak with me again. Rest assured, if it becomes too rude and obvious (especially to my children), I won't always take it lying down. I can get rude, too, and I don't have to be silent about it.

[BetrayedH]

High road is always the way to go.

 

 

I tend to agree with you (a lot) but there are limits. I think I used to believe that and with no exceptions. My days of being a doormat are over. Taking the high road can leave you vulnerable to the machinations and manipulations of others who seek to take advantage. Some of those people need to know that my generosity has limits and they may suffer consequences for their disrespectful behavior.

[BetrayedH]

Oh... if it were me, the first thing i would have done because so much was invested is to explain why I left their daughter.

 

I would still expose that now to them, even years later because they could and i have seen this poison your children to think otherwise against your wishes.

 

That's just me though, i would have definitely said something along the lines of "this is why i left her" Honestly it erks me a bit that they don't know, i thought they were not speaking to you because they were ashamed. You have a really unique case in how evil and downright pre-meditated she was with you, I would definitely make her parents proud of their daughter.

 

There is no high or low road when the truth will set you free.

 

They know of her affair and the duration of it, just not some of the more heinous parts.

 

But bear in mind that I also made huge mistakes. They also know I had my own affair (although they don't know I had permission) and they know I threw her out the door and hurt her (and she has continued to play the 'fear' card). In their minds, I also had an affair and got violent so there's no winning. If it gets to be too much, I've considered handing them a copy of the blog. But so far, I'm just trying to take that proverbial high road and let them go. They're going to support their daughter and I couldn't justify my actions if I tried. I don't even want to, to be honest. It's just that their silence in social settings is problematic. So far they've been few and far between but we have a lot of years left.

[atreides]

They know of her affair and the duration of it, just not some of the more heinous parts.

 

But bear in mind that I also made huge mistakes. They also know I had my own affair (although they don't know I had permission) and they know I threw her out the door and hurt her (and she has continued to play the 'fear' card). In their minds, I also had an affair and got violent so there's no winning. If it gets to be too much, I've considered handing them a copy of the blog. But so far, I'm just trying to take that proverbial high road and let them go. They're going to support their daughter and I couldn't justify my actions if I tried. I don't even want to, to be honest. It's just that their silence in social settings is problematic. So far they've been few and far between but we have a lot of years left.

 

Well then, no matter if they are silent or not, you all are there for your daughter's girl scout function. Bring your girlfriend and in time you will move on completely from all this. No need to analyze so much, i think it's perfectly normal to still have emotions about this given your experience.

[candie13]

BH, I am a firm believer in self heal. As a matter of fact, by reading about our illness or about the impact of our trauma on us, we are able to work on ourselves, confront ourselves and evolve.

 

Read about anger and also read about forgiveness. You are for the moment stuck in anger. So be it. But learn how to manage it, because on it's addictive and on the long term, it dries you up, it rots you on the inside. In a way, anger is what holds you prisoner of your ex and deeply anchored in the past. It may also have become the only legitimate feeling you are allowed to feel, especially since no one else seems to validate your hurt. It's also what keeps the wound from healing. Anger keeps the wound open.

 

Work on yourself. You've overanalyzed this horrible episode of your life to death, it's time to go through it and let it go. It's not what defines your relationship with your ex. It's not what defines you, your essence as a person. You are much much more than that. Rediscover whom you are and re-birth from the ashes of your burnt feathers, like a Phoenix.

[BetrayedH]

BH, I am a firm believer in self heal. As a matter of fact, by reading about our illness or about the impact of our trauma on us, we are able to work on ourselves, confront ourselves and evolve.

 

Read about anger and also read about forgiveness. You are for the moment stuck in anger. So be it. But learn how to manage it, because on it's addictive and on the long term, it dries you up, it rots you on the inside. In a way, anger is what holds you prisoner of your ex and deeply anchored in the past. It may also have become the only legitimate feeling you are allowed to feel, especially since no one else seems to validate your hurt. It's also what keeps the wound from healing. Anger keeps the wound open.

 

Work on yourself. You've overanalyzed this horrible episode of your life to death, it's time to go through it and let it go. It's not what defines your relationship with your ex. It's not what defines you, your essence as a person. You are much much more than that. Rediscover whom you are and re-birth from the ashes of your burnt feathers, like a Phoenix.

 

Good post. I'm working on it.