I am not indifferent

[Betterthanthis13]

BH... You are an inspiration to me every single day. You were one of the first people to respond to me on LS and have consistentlly done so the past few months with kindness, reason, knowledge, and patience, and I see how you do that for so many others as well. I think this is the first time I've seen you make a thread. I'm so excited to get to post on it!

 

This i what I think. Yes, the goal is indifference. That's a great goal. Its my goal too. Don't ever stop trying to get there.

 

Is indifference 100% achievable, ever? Probably not, unless you are a robot. Are you closer or farther away from indefferance than you "should" be at this time? That's a hard question to answer. Do you want to feel better about what you are already doing or push yourself to do better? Are you already pushing yourself too hard or not hard enough on yourself?

 

My guess is that you are already doing substantially better than most, but you have your moments just like the rest of us. Don't beat yourself up, it's not a contest. There is no way to win, and there is no prize for being the best or most efficient healer after being burned by infidelity. Like I hear over and over again around here...you didn't ask for this, you didn't cause it and you don't deserve to have to deal with it. You just have to deal with it so... just keep doing the best you can.

[BetrayedH]

Sincere thanks to each of you. I would say more but I'm short on time.

 

Again, thank you. Guess it was my day to need support.

[Betterthanthis13]

One more thing I forgot to say- something to think about---the difference between when you "should" be feeling indifferent, and when it is appropriate to just go ahead and be irritated-- and then process that negative emotion effectively through some form of expression- is huge in my opinion.

 

There is nothing wrong with being mad at people who do things wrong to you as long as you have a way to effectively deal with the negative emotion and not let it affect your life and the lives of those around you (your GF for example)

 

It's probably more damaging to you to try to be infiiferent towards the ex and stuff emotions down rather than just get them out, process them, move on. Balance is probably a good word to start keeping top of mind

[Jonah]

Two years is the milestone, not one. Another year will make a world of difference.

 

If it helps anything... her defects belong to her, be glad you don't suffer them. If your humiliations were not in your mind, would they exist at all?

[jnel921]

BH.... It's been over 16 years since my first marriage ended in divorce because of my ex H cheating and lying ways. I was very angry in the beginning. I can't say I am angry now though. Over the years it went from anger to just feeling sorry for him. He is a leopard who will never change his spots.

 

His life never worked out the way he wanted it to and now that our kids are older they see first hand how he is and what a pathological liar he is and what a mess he had made of his life.

 

A year after a divorce is still too fresh. I remember having my sister doing all of the dropping off of the kids during visitations. The less time I saw him or spoke to him the better. Our communication improved when he married again some years later, however that ended when his wife caught him cheating, not once but on three separate occasions and then he left her and decided to divorce her too.

 

In the end you should really feel something because we are all human.... so feel love, love for yourself and love for your kids. I think that the greatest thing you can do for them is show them you have some kind of love or respect for their mother. Its not their fault that this happened and they will love you both unconditionally. They will figure her out as they get older.

 

Things will get better. I know its tough because you have to deal with her because of the kids. When they get older it gets easier.

 

Just know that after your divorce you wound up with the best person possible...you. Keep working on being the right person for the next person in your life.

[Journee]

I have been kind of "bleh" lately and the most used word on the forum " bitter". Not lemon bitter , more of a dark chocolate bitter. Rich and emboldened. I am not in a great position to give advice about indifference. I really just want to tell you to keep pushing man. You seem like a great guy and are heading in the right direction.

 

You always have tons of great advice for folks around here and are respected. I imagine that translates into your offline life. You sir are a gentleman

 

 

Keep fighting the good fight. Indifference eludes you but strong character goes a lot further.

[BetrayedH]

Two years is the milestone, not one. Another year will make a world of difference.

 

If it helps anything... her defects belong to her, be glad you don't suffer them. If your humiliations were not in your mind, would they exist at all?

 

Frankly, I think you're right that another year will result in a better perspective. Thr one thing I lacked thru this whole process was patience.

 

We'll have to see about mastering my thoughts. That one is elusive, too.

[atreides]

How much of a problem is this?

 

You already know the answer to that. If you want to ask if it's ok that you are not indifferent, how can you be. From what i read of your situation, you had a lot vested. Also why is the goal to be indifferent? One can still care about what happened to them and move on. In other words, good to forgive but not forget, to be indifferent would also include forgetting and that would remove all that you have learned since.

 

It's important to note that the nature of my ex-wife's infidelity was particularly disrespectful and intentionally so. Things didn't go well. Her ability to lie throughout the whole process has been remarkable.

 

Agreed, it was outright evil. I had a chance to read that blog. But we all live and learn, use it to make you stronger.

[Spark1111]

well I didn't start to disembark the crazy train until three years after DDay and that was WITH a spouse who was pulling out all the stops to make it right.

 

Had we divorced, you bet I would have been angry, irritated and resentful for a long, long time. that's human nature I think, especially when you cared about about your spouse and loved your family life with them.

 

Like my cousin said: You cannot wait to get this lying, cheating SOB out of your life....then the divorce becomes final...and you STILL have to talk about the children three days a week!

 

Yes, embrace the suck. It doesn't go away any other way.

 

If you do not approve of the electives she picked out for your son, you have every right to be upset with HER that you were not consulted. Same with your daughter being picked up from the school nurse.

 

PS: My cousin's WS married his OW. He now bosses her around and looks to get out of household and familial responsibilities on his OW.

 

My cousin? She's been re-elected to the school board several times and is a pillar in her community. All her children are doing very well and her xH has actually become a better, more involved father in the ensuing years.

 

No one can still understand how he through her away. Everyone is fairly assured he now cheats on his OW.

[Betterthanthis13]

Btw, I was in a co-parent situation for almost the entirety of my child's upbringing...we have had our ups and downs but overall it has been a very pleasant experience. My xH has been remarried for about 12 years and his wife is great. We have even all done things together for major events like graduations with no problems. His wife and I have gotten carried away on the phone chatting at times which sort of annoys xH so we keep it to a minimum, although under different circumstances we might even be friends.

 

With all that said, when xH and I divorced (very young) there was no infidelity, lying, deceit, gas lighting, etc etc. We were just two young stupid kids that shouldn't have gotten knocked up and married. (Yes in that order, lol) So we worked it out and made the best of it. I'm saying all this to somewhat give myself the credibility of a reasonable human being who can co-parent. My kid is now a "grownup" and is awesome and amazing and ready to take on the world.

 

I can NOT IMAGINE co-parenting with this current xbf- thank you universe for getting me out of that situation before i did something stupid like marry that guy----he might end up chopped into bits buried in my backyard with 10 couches set aflame on his makeshift funeral pyre. So the fact that you are not indifferent towards that woman after a short time is really not much in my mind. I think you are doing super awesome. Buy a dartboard or a punching bag and put a picture of her face on it. Just don't let your kids or your GF know about it.

[harrybrown]

I am sorry that your ex still does not treat you the way you would treat her. I think you should realize that you are the better person. She may never give you what you want in the way of a very sincere apology, but I do wish she would.

 

I have to do things to make me feel better about myself, so exercise helps me. I am glad that you have your girlfriend in your life to help you realize that not every one is out to get you. These experiences really make it impossible to trust other humans, because your loved one could be so mean and vicious to you. I am finding that as your kids grow into their adult years, the contact will be less for you. But your children will still have problems that you will want to reach out and help them. I think that you will be a positive force for your children and remember that it important that you stay in their corner.

 

I do appreciate your advise that you give to others on the forum.

[Snowflower]

I don't think "indifference" should be your goal if that doesn't feel natural to you. You might need to find a different goal-in terms of feeling-that better matches who you are. These are just examples but - peace, acceptance, resignation, etc. are feelings/goals that you might find fit you better. Or, there is probably some other goal or state of feeling that I can't name that would work better for you.

 

So, forget about indifference. It works for some people, not for others. I know I would have never likely reached indifference either had my H and I divorced. I feel things way too strongly. Always have, always will. BH, I suspect you are wired similarly.

 

Based on my experience of infidelity, sometimes I found that when I went backwards in my feelings, or felt like my forward momentum had all but stopped, it was because I was getting ready to make a big progression forward. I once thought about it being compared to a sling shot. You get pulled back at first but then you are propelled forward faster than you expect. Perhaps something like this will be true for you.

 

Anyway, you are a strong person and that shows in your incredible posts here. You're one of my favorite posters. Chin up!

 

(((hugs))) of course in a completely platonic way because I'm married!

[Got it]

Continued contact is definitely a huge part of the challenge. The new school year is an especially trying time as there's so much to do with new schedules, extra curriculars and the like. Not having the foundation of a marriage makes it very difficult to resolve disputes and patience, especially on my part, is hard to come by. For example, my 7 yo daughter went to the nurse being a bit of a diva about being hot and sweaty at PE and my ex-MIL picked her up. I didn't find out until my daughter informed me on one of my days several days later. I should know about my daughter leaving school "sick," be involved for such a decision, and be given the option of picking her up myself if my exwife wasn't available (rather than a grandparent). My exwife also made some unilateral decisions about my son's electives. Not cool. And I have little patience for it. I'd much rather never see her again but instead I get this crap.

 

As for still wanting an apology, I suppose there's some truth to that. But we went thru 8 months of trying to reconcile where she appeared remorseful. I think she stayed out of guilt, obligation, and fear. I certainly think I'm owed an apology for the blog post but she holds equal resentment for being thrown out the door. She's done with apologizing. While something sincere from her would go a long way towards closure for me, it's not coming and I've been forced to accept that my closure is going to have to come from within.

 

Both were good points, Red Wolverine. They're key parts of the problem.

 

BH - this is why you can't reach indifference because she is still making unilateral decision on things that should be joint decisions/notifications. True indifference may not be a reasonable goal until your kids are adults and you don't have to have her involvement at the same level. I think there are many individuals with exes whom are abusive or piss poor with the kids, they have to continue to manage and clean up the messes and so how can you be indifferent when new actions are heaped on top?

 

I think what you can do now is work to mitigating her ability to make unilateral decisions. Have the school set up to notify you of everything with the kids via email. I know that schools in this area will email all email addresses listed if the kids do not go to school or leave early. They deal with a lot of divorce situation so understand the issues.

 

From what I am reading what you are upset about is a continuing display of disregard and disrespect. It isn't about indifference for the affair, per say, but about the current actions on top of the past ones. So you can work on how much it affects you after you put in all actions to help use outside resources. You accept that she has shown you who she is and this is her. Expect this behavior, assume this is what she will do/say/be, and prepare for it. Over time the impact on the emotional response will be less but she will be the annoyance you have to deal with until they are older. It may just be that way.

 

Work with your kids, as I am sure you do, to have them keep you in the loop as well when things are happening.

 

Sorry you have to deal with this.

[BetrayedH]

You already know the answer to that. If you want to ask if it's ok that you are not indifferent, how can you be. From what i read of your situation, you had a lot vested. Also why is the goal to be indifferent? One can still care about what happened to them and move on. In other words, good to forgive but not forget, to be indifferent would also include forgetting and that would remove all that you have learned since.

 

It's been said that the opposite of love is not hate; it's indifference. That's always seemed to ring true to me. Oddly, I don't think I love, nor hate, nor feel indifferent towards my exwife. I agree that it's too soon to be over it. But that seems a reasonable goal, to have much less of an emotional investment, to not care, to be indifferent.

 

My daughter has a girl scout event this Saturday and the families have been asked to bring a picnic lunch. My exwife's parents are likely to attend. They don't acknowledge or speak to me (haven't since it all happened). How is that going to work? I guess I bring lunch for myself. My GF has offered to come and be with me but I think that just makes it all more uncomfortable and awkward. I'd rather just be ostracized than to risk a blow up.

[BetrayedH]

I don't think "indifference" should be your goal if that doesn't feel natural to you. You might need to find a different goal-in terms of feeling-that better matches who you are. These are just examples but - peace, acceptance, resignation, etc. are feelings/goals that you might find fit you better. Or, there is probably some other goal or state of feeling that I can't name that would work better for you.

 

So, forget about indifference. It works for some people, not for others. I know I would have never likely reached indifference either had my H and I divorced. I feel things way too strongly. Always have, always will. BH, I suspect you are wired similarly.

 

Based on my experience of infidelity, sometimes I found that when I went backwards in my feelings, or felt like my forward momentum had all but stopped, it was because I was getting ready to make a big progression forward. I once thought about it being compared to a sling shot. You get pulled back at first but then you are propelled forward faster than you expect. Perhaps something like this will be true for you.

 

Anyway, you are a strong person and that shows in your incredible posts here. You're one of my favorite posters. Chin up!

 

(((hugs))) of course in a completely platonic way because I'm married!

 

Hmm. If indifference is not going to be the goal (and perhap you're right about that), I'm not sure what the goal is. That sure makes it hard to target. I feel like I am just spinning my wheels, continuing to analyze something or find an answer that's not coming.

 

I think it's "normal" considering what I went thru (so I do my best not to beat myself up about it) but I am the kind of person that wants a solution. Frustrating. I want an answer but I don't want to think about what it is anymore and I don't think I'm going to find it by searching for it. Perhaps the answer is just as other have suggested: time. Damn four-letter word.

[Betterthanthis13]

It's been said that the opposite of love is not hate; it's indifference. That's always seemed to ring true to me. Oddly, I don't think I love, nor hate, nor feel indifferent towards my exwife. I agree that it's too soon to be over it. But that seems a reasonable goal, to have much less of an emotional investment, to not care, to be indifferent.

 

My daughter has a girl scout event this Saturday and the families have been asked to bring a picnic lunch. My exwife's parents are likely to attend. They don't acknowledge or speak to me (haven't since it all happened). How is that going to work? I guess I bring lunch for myself. My GF has offered to come and be with me but I think that just makes it all more uncomfortable and awkward. I'd rather just be ostracized than to risk a blow up.

 

Ill go with you as moral support and smile at everyone and not say a freaking word.

[BetrayedH]

BH - this is why you can't reach indifference because she is still making unilateral decision on things that should be joint decisions/notifications. True indifference may not be a reasonable goal until your kids are adults and you don't have to have her involvement at the same level. I think there are many individuals with exes whom are abusive or piss poor with the kids, they have to continue to manage and clean up the messes and so how can you be indifferent when new actions are heaped on top?

 

I think what you can do now is work to mitigating her ability to make unilateral decisions. Have the school set up to notify you of everything with the kids via email. I know that schools in this area will email all email addresses listed if the kids do not go to school or leave early. They deal with a lot of divorce situation so understand the issues.

 

From what I am reading what you are upset about is a continuing display of disregard and disrespect. It isn't about indifference for the affair, per say, but about the current actions on top of the past ones. So you can work on how much it affects you after you put in all actions to help use outside resources. You accept that she has shown you who she is and this is her. Expect this behavior, assume this is what she will do/say/be, and prepare for it. Over time the impact on the emotional response will be less but she will be the annoyance you have to deal with until they are older. It may just be that way.

 

Work with your kids, as I am sure you do, to have them keep you in the loop as well when things are happening.

 

Sorry you have to deal with this.

 

You're right that it's impossible to reach indifference when things keep getting heaped on top. I'm doing my best to manage those situations that come up. I don't blow up but I don't hesitate to express my expectations either. Unfortunately, I don't think the schools are yet good at dealing with co-parenting issues; they just call the first person. Some of these things are just unavoidable and not big enough to do anything about.

[BetrayedH]

Ill go with you as moral support and smile at everyone and not say a freaking word.

 

He, he. Boy, that would get everyone talking. Can I pick your outfit?

[Betterthanthis13]

I could call myself a "freelance investigative journalist" doing an article on the sociological impact of infidelity on society and families, and have a notebook I scribble in periodically while wandering around observing people and making weird, thoughtful, pensive faces, and eye contact with whoever you want me to. Ill wear my glasses and a business suit and look all official.

 

Just kidding Don't sweat it. Pack a sandwich.

[BetrayedH]

I could call myself a "freelance investigative journalist" doing an article on the sociological impact of infidelity on society and families, and have a notebook I scribble in periodically while wandering around observing people and making weird, thoughtful, pensive faces, and eye contact with whoever you want me to. Ill wear my glasses and a business suit and look all official.

 

I like this idea. Oh, and Furious has an outfit she can lend you.

 

(More seriously). It's my day with my daughter so I'll just bring lunch for the two of us and the ex's family can bring whatever the hell they want. This crap just gets old.

[Betterthanthis13]

OR... we could go short skirt and heavy makeup....and I could chew gum and twirl my hair and laugh at everything everyone says really loud, and just be super super enthusiastic about everything... No explanation to anyone whatsoever. LOL LOL LOL

[Furious]

I like this idea. Oh, and Furious has an outfit she can lend you.

 

(More seriously). It's my day with my daughter so I'll just bring lunch for the two of us and the ex's family can bring whatever the hell they want. This crap just gets old.

 

 

BH

 

I only wear my soulmate hunting outfit to fine bars and I don't think it would be suitable at a picnic. :D:D

 

On a serious note, it's your daughter's day and enjoy it with her and for her. Pack an amazing lunch, bring lots of goodies to share with her friends too. Pack that picnic together and make it special. You're a class act BH.

[Betterthanthis13]

I like this idea. Oh, and Furious has an outfit she can lend you.

 

(More seriously). It's my day with my daughter so I'll just bring lunch for the two of us and the ex's family can bring whatever the hell they want. This crap just gets old.

 

Just enjoy the day with your daughter. Have some mental escapes for your mind so you can relax. Some people do breathing excercises, or have mantras they repeat in their head... I personally like to imagine creative, absurd situations that would never actually happen in reality so I can summon them up and have a reason to smile and laugh when I feel tension, so I can get through the difficult situation.

[Betterthanthis13]

Soulmate hunting outfit? I am not aware of this. I need a visual, stat!

 

Oh wait- is this the back dress and heels- it's coming back to me I think...

[Betterthanthis13]

Last bit of advice even though I'm a jerk for replying like 7 times in a row....

 

Before something difficult- I like to look up inspirational quotes. MLK is my go to favorite, but Ghandi or whoever works... Goodreads.com has a quotes tab where you can type in any name and get awesome quotes to read for 2 minutes sitiing in the car in the parkinv lot before going in somewhere you are apprehensive about facing- to get a perspective on what really matters- so you are less bothered by lame drama.

 

That's some BTT practical advice! I highly recommend it. Good for blood pressure and sanity.