Not every OW is 'waiting'

[White Flower]

Bizzare yes, I will stick to my original impression. An over inflated ego does reek of low self esteem, think about that when writing. However, if you forward your relationships according to stats, if you happen upon a second serious relationship apart from your first marriage, the divorce/break up percentage hits a high of 80% failure rate. It is a good thing you are not waiting on your MM and going on with your life and leaving it in the past.

 

I'm sorry you seem so desperately needing to believe that, but I just don't. In my circle I've never seen a second D, and I have literally hundreds of friends. Ask anyone here who knows me IRL how often I socialize.

 

And I think you are confusing overinflated egos with healthy confidence. One day you'll see the difference.

 

Care to get back OT?

[KathyM]

It's difficult for any rational human being, IMHO, to believe that love can be promised at a young age. We don't know ourselves then, so how can we be expected to carry it through a lifetime? The state you live in has a 60% D rate, that pretty much backs up my claim.

 

It's a nice idea, promised love, but I think it's a fairy tale.

Marriage entails promised love, and promised fidelity. Many people who marry young do go on to have happy, lifelong marriages. I know many couples personally who have that, and I do myself. I was 19 when I got married, and am still happily married to the same man. We've had our ups and downs like all married couples, but I believe in keeping my promises. I did not take them lightly, despite my youth. The divorce rate for first marriages is 50%. That means 50% go on to stay married. Just because some choose to follow their whims and not honor their promises doesn't mean it can't be done.

[cocorico]

To jlola, what makes you think I am helping him do anything you state? I am the one demanding he do right by her and stop the façade! She won't even demand that for herself because that is her comfort zone. Oh well, that's for her to deal with.

 

As for those archaic states with AoA laws, well I would never grace those states with my presence.

 

I think it's a convenient myth for some to believe the OW is a passive person who just lies around all day waiting for the MM to call. After all, of all she has to do is paint her nails and shave her legs, then of course she will outcompete the harried BW whose days are filled with picking up,after kids, washing skid marks out of his underwear, packing lunches, scrubbing floors, etc so that she barely has time to drag a comb through her hair. Of course she will be more inclined to want to hear about his day, to perform "monkey sex" (whatever that is) with him, to make him feel valued! So of course he will get an ego boost from being around such a creature, who exists for his pleasure alone!

 

And so when it turns out that OW are able professionals, excelling at respectable jobs, with active social lives, rich community lives, well-balanced kids and well-kept homes *and* they look great too, and are awesome lovers.... Well, that's a little threatening, so they need to be rubbished somehow.

[White Flower]

You asked about the love a wife has for a husband, and why that is considered acceptable and the love an OW has for a MM is not. If you are saying that your MM is now filing for divorce and has contacted a lawyer, then obviously he is preparing to leave the marriage. Most MM do not plan to leave the marriage when they start an affair. The vast majority of MM do not end up with the OW after their divorce. I'm answering your original question. If you plan on being with your MM and he has contacted an attorney to file divorce papers, then why are you dating other men?

 

Your question isn't as OT as you may think!

 

I was dating someone before xMM came calling and I told him if he still loves and wants me then I need to see action before I make any changes. He knows my life goes on as usual. I have no vows with him and after all he's put me through he gets to prove himself with action before I bend. To be honest, I wasn't thrilled with the new guy and have stood him up (respectfully) a couple of times but I'm not telling xMM that!!

[MissBee]

The MM has not promised the OW to forsake all others, since he is married to his wife. He still is in the marriage. He made that promise to his wife, not the OW.

 

I see no point in arguing this frankly.

 

The reality is: most of the world understands what marriage is more or less. As a social contract, people generally know what it means to have a wife or husband. No matter where you go in the world, people have an understanding of what it is to be a married couple and likewise what it means to be an "other." Since marriages are socially sanctioned, rightly or wrongly, most people have an understanding of it and respect it and can guess that this is the primary couple with certain rights and privileges and often treat it as such. Hence, so many gay couples are fighting to be able to have their relationships given those same rights and privileges.

 

A MM can promise an OW the moon and sun in the privacy of a secret A....and the OW can try to make sure he comes through, but fact: affairs do not have the same social respect and social sanction and backing that marriages do or even regular single relationships...so the OW will be the one fighting an uphill battle with most of the civilized world to get people to view it as just as legitimate. I don't think there is anything to argue in that...

[White Flower]

If you plan on being with your MM and he has contacted an attorney to file divorce papers, then why are you dating other men?

 

Good question. White Flower is a well seasoned bird, not young and naive. I am sure she is doing it for strategic purposes.

 

Oh yes, the old strategy line, how mysterious.

 

I've stated my case in my OP.

[KathyM]

The OW didn't enter the marriage contract, the MM and W did. I guess the OW could be guilty of fanning the flames, but the core of what you seem to be talking about lies with the MM in this case. Once MM developed those types of feelings for someone other than his W, he started damaging the marriage (according to your premise). The OW's feelings about the MM are largely irrelevant to the discussion.

 

In my case, I was the OM. The MW developed feelings for me before I showed any interest in her. She was trying very hard to get to know me, because she had feelings for me, for a good 2 or 3 months before we did anything. I was resistant during that time. As the OM, I definitely exasperated the problems in her M by eventually deciding to take part in an A. I own that. But just by the fact that she had feelings for me before our PA started, and worked hard to get to know me, showed that her M was already being damaged on some level. With or without my active participation.

Your active participation damaged the marriage. Without your active participation, there would be no affair. Both affair partners' actions damage the marriage.

[MissBee]

I think it's a convenient myth for some to believe the OW is a passive person who just lies around all day waiting for the MM to call. After all, of all she has to do is paint her nails and shave her legs, then of course she will outcompete the harried BW whose days are filled with picking up,after kids, washing skid marks out of his underwear, packing lunches, scrubbing floors, etc so that she barely has time to drag a comb through her hair. Of course she will be more inclined to want to hear about his day, to perform "monkey sex" (whatever that is) with him, to make him feel valued! So of course he will get an ego boost from being around such a creature, who exists for his pleasure alone!

 

And so when it turns out that OW are able professionals, excelling at respectable jobs, with active social lives, rich community lives, well-balanced kids and well-kept homes *and* they look great too, and are awesome lovers.... Well, that's a little threatening, so they need to be rubbished somehow.

 

 

I think some OW themselves construct these insane caricatures and then try to dismantle them to prove a point, then say other people are the ones thinking this, when it isn't always true.

 

OW are as varied as MM and BSs. I think many sensible people understand this. Many of the OW whom BS's here dealt with personally worked with their spouse's so they are well aware that the OW has a job and a life.

 

As SG, I, carhill and others have pointed out, which is germane to the topic: waiting is not about sitting by the phone. That's a ridiculous caricature and when one tries to defend yourself against the idea of waiting, by pointing out how you have a job, a clean house, volunteer, are the president of a book club or whatever else...it's not really effective, since waiting is more so an emotional unavailability because of wanting to be with a MM and thus, while you may run a Fortune 500, run 5ks weekly etc., date a new man every Saturday, etc. your emotions and heart may very much still be in a kind of emotional holding place because you're inlove with a MM.

 

I think it's more useful to address realistic scenarios and realistic definitions versus when people on either side put up and argue with each other about absurd caricatures.

[White Flower]

But can't you not see here, almost every OW , not only you, is asking, requesting, demanding, threating and pleading MM to leave wife/marriage IMMEDIATELY, and MM does not follow OW's wish of course.

 

So what you gonna do, what you can do? Nothing, nothing you can do to change MM's life direction to be with you.

 

So what you gonna do, waiting still?

 

You aren't reading slowly enough I'm afraid; I never demanded any time table. I only demanded honesty.

[White Flower]

Marriage entails promised love, and promised fidelity. Many people who marry young do go on to have happy, lifelong marriages. I know many couples personally who have that, and I do myself. I was 19 when I got married, and am still happily married to the same man. We've had our ups and downs like all married couples, but I believe in keeping my promises. I did not take them lightly, despite my youth. The divorce rate for first marriages is 50%. That means 50% go on to stay married. Just because some choose to follow their whims and not honor their promises doesn't mean it can't be done.

 

Correction: 50% nationwide, 60% in California.

[White Flower]

Your active participation damaged the marriage. Without your active participation, there would be no affair. Both affair partners' actions damage the marriage.

 

If a WH was jacking off to porn videos each day even though he had a pining W upstairs would you blame the video?

[KathyM]

Correction: 50% nationwide, 60% in California.

Well, I'm not sure what your point is in singling out California. Lots of flakes in this neck of the woods.

[White Flower]

 

I think some OW themselves construct these insane caricatures and then try to dismantle them to prove a point, then say other people are the ones thinking this, when it isn't always true.

 

OW are as varied as MM and BSs. I think many sensible people understand this. Many of the OW whom BS's here dealt with personally worked with their spouse's so they are well aware that the OW has a job and a life.

 

As SG, I, carhill and others have pointed out, which is germane to the topic: waiting is not about sitting by the phone. That's a ridiculous caricature and when one tries to defend yourself against the idea of waiting, by pointing out how you have a job, a clean house, volunteer, are the president of a book club or whatever else...it's not really effective, since waiting is more so an emotional unavailability because of wanting to be with a MM and thus, while you may run a Fortune 500, run 5ks weekly etc., date a new man every Saturday, etc. your emotions and heart may very much still be in a kind of emotional holding place because you're inlove with a MM.

 

I think it's more useful to address realistic scenarios and realistic definitions versus when people on either side put up and argue with each other about absurd caricatures.

 

So you're defending me then. Thank you.

[KathyM]

If a WH was jacking off to porn videos each day even though he had a pining W upstairs would you blame the video?

The topic is love, and the feelings that ensue between the affair partners that damage and destroy a marriage. Your analogy of porn is really not relevant to the discussion.

[White Flower]

I don't think I read wrong, I just merely point out the harsh cold reality.

 

It is not because you never demanded, or never wanted to demand, it is because you are not able to demand any timeline from MM, Yes? You can not do anything about it. Then what?

 

You DO NOT have choice - you can only wait even on the surface saying you are dating...but ultimately from the bottom of your heart you want MM as your price.

 

But if it already once the MM did not choose you, not to say 19 times, or 91 times, nothing is going to change. He is living with his wife under the name of marriage.

 

But tell me at least he told wife he has mistress, or not, or you like some OWs here, waiting D-day D-day, to be found out by wife?

It's a moot point Mount, I don't demand timelines.

 

The 19 Dday point is also wasted on me. It is BW who begs him to stay even though she keeps finding cell phones with messages of love to me. My life went on as per usual.

 

It sounds to me as though you are preaching to the converted Mount. Maybe your efforts will work best with the rOW type?

[White Flower]

Well, I'm not sure what your point is in singling out California. Lots of flakes in this neck of the woods.

 

Lots of flakes worldwide K, I've traveled a bit to know.

 

Because you told me you want to work as a MC in Cali and it concerns me that you don't know the stats in your own state.

[White Flower]

But at least video does not participate voluntarily in the affair, on the opposite, video helps man staying in marriage.

 

Your existence is an object or distraction for him that desperately wanting MM go with you, but he refuses all the time. You need to acknowledge that.

 

You're funny Mount, and obviously don't know my story. I'd suggest you read my over 6K posts but you seem to read between the lines a lot so I wish you well and if you'd like to stay OT I'll be glad to soar with ya. Have a blessed day:laugh:

[MissBee]

If a WH was jacking off to porn videos each day even though he had a pining W upstairs would you blame the video?

 

Whaaat?

 

Please clarify the points of the analogy which you're comparing.

 

Are you comparing an OW to a masturbatory aid?

 

Are you comparing an OW's ability to make choices with that of the video's ability to think and make choices?

[White Flower]

The topic is love, and the feelings that ensue between the affair partners that damage and destroy a marriage. Your analogy of porn is really not relevant to the discussion.

 

Hmm, you may hear a different story once you begin counseling couples. I have a friend who blamed porn for the demise of her M and sex life with her H. I tried to show her it was a problem within her H but she still blamed the porn industry.

[White Flower]

MB is pointly out you are 1000% emotionally attaching that MM too much, not solely what you just said in the post - you have life, do this do that, which seems not to wait for MM. The harsh reality is that, you are, still...which you need to LET HIM GO, give him up.

 

Very simple....

 

The definition of insane is - repeat........to expect different result....

 

I don't think I need say above in full, everyone should be aware that easily.

But I have seen change Mount, but not enough to my liking, not just yet. Didn't you read about that? I think you are posting before reading. Also projecting.

[White Flower]

Whaaat?

 

Please clarify the points of the analogy which you're comparing.

 

Are you comparing an OW to a masturbatory aid?

 

Are you comparing an OW's ability to make choices with that of the video's ability to think and make choices?

 

If a human is involved than you have someone to blame don't you. Chew on that for a while.

[White Flower]

I am just a very realistic person, IT IS WHAT IT IS. I acknowledge the reality, apparently some women don't.

 

I don't like any useless process and effort which leads to zero.

 

Yes, BW might beg, but thousands of OWs requested, asked, pleaded MMs to stay with OWs and leave marriage/wife completedly. So did MM follow OWs' wish? And it proves what? You can finish the sentence as you know clearly in your mind.

 

Good luck with saving the world Mount. I wish you well.

[White Flower]

Exactly, over 6000 post, 19 times MM going back wife.

 

Where is your power towards MM? Or even you don't care about MM, why you even talk about him? What is your worthy to him....

 

Why can't you think about that and acknowledge.

 

Why do you care so much? You're not adding any value to the discussion.

 

Which reminds me...I have a paper to write for my psychology class. Y'all have a very nice day!

[KathyM]

Lots of flakes worldwide K, I've traveled a bit to know.

 

Because you told me you want to work as a MC in Cali and it concerns me that you don't know the stats in your own state.

The divorce stats vary per state and also vary based on many other factors, such as number of prior marriages, children vs. no children, any many other factors. The fact that California has a 60% first time divorce rate, which is higher than the national average of 50% is really not going to have an effect on how I work with couples on improving their marriage.

[Mount]

My words are hitting the truth/reality, of course some people do not want to face. That is understandable.

 

 

Why do you care so much? You're not adding any value to the discussion.

 

Which reminds me...I have a paper to write for my psychology class. Y'all have a very nice day!