Author jamesbob Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share Posted January 30, 2013 Because I would like to have a long-term partner to bond with and have children. A family is what I hope for. That's why it's important to me. Why should numbers matter to me regarding exclusivity? Why can't you do that while at the same time she is sleeping with other men? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
silvermercy Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Well, sometimes I feel like the only female who won't date manwhores either! lol I can agree with the OP because, in the end, it's a compatibility issue. For me I won't date promiscuous men because I have associated promiscuity, casual sex and flings with many negative traits/situations: (nothing to do with morals or religion; just logic and common sense) - increased chance of that person dumping me. The less numbers you have, the more likely I will be your last number. - increased chance of that person cheating on me (not saying it will happen but still... I want to minimise risks as much as possible) - increased chance of that person suddenly missing his/her old lifestyle and trying to introduce me to say, threesomes (I have never met a previously promiscuous person who at some point years later didn't miss it. They're still faithful but, according to them, they miss it. - increased chance of that person having low self esteem and seeking validation through sex. I'm not keen on low self-esteem as a trait (plus, it's also connected to cheating risk) - increased chance of that person having a large ego (connected to his bed notch number). Not keen on large egos. - increased chance of STDs (especially those ones you have to wait for months and have repeat tests to get definite results) - increased chance of getting pregnant (for a woman) of getting a woman pregnant (for a man). I don't want the door bell ringing after many years with a surprise offspring! lol - increased chance of that person having other undesirable characteristics like recklessness, extreme risk-taking etc in their life: would you invite a total stranger to your home for a coffee right now? Go out on the street and invite the first person you find into your home for, say, talking? Why invite him/her for sex then!? They could be psychopaths for all I know. - increased chance of conflicting child-raising views. When raising kids it'd be better if our views on sex where compatible and on the same page. Less confused kids this way. I think the keywords for me here are "increased risk", "compatibility" and "risk minimisation". So you do what you have to do. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
KungFuJoe Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 TheWholigan, Sometimes I think I'm just a glutton for punishment. Half the time I tell myself I should just limit my posting to the sex and water cooler forums, but then I keep finding myself drawn back in here. Probably for the same reason people watch reality TV. It "appears" to be reality, but we all know that we are just seeing vast extremes on human interaction...and we can't help but be fascinated by it somehow. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
animalover Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 No you don't get it. Her past isn't important during the relationship either. You're getting hung up on the numbers. It would not be the numbers that bother me. Obviously I am into her, love having sex with her, we are compatible, and she would think the same too, so I would want exclusivity with her. It would be important because my trust will have been misplaced. Could you please outline your point? I'm saying the same thing repeatedly here. OK, first I would like to agree with you in one think, I don't get it! Now my point is not why you like a girl, and that if you are in a monogamous relationship you expect her to be loyal and faithful, I understand that... my point or question is why would you want to go in a monogamous relationship with a woman.. why would you like to have a woman in exclusivity if you don't mind other people sharing on her in the past.... I hope I am being clear with the question... is not about boundaries, is not about cheating... is just plain asking you... why if you don't care about what a woman did in the past you suddenly care about what she will be doing now... you still can have a love relationship without being exclusive... why would you choose monogamy? just curious.... I would choose monogamy because sex has a meaning for me, if sex would be just meaningless it would not be a problem... therefore since for you sex is meaningless I wanted to know why you would embrace monogamy.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
animalover Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Humble has nothing to do with it. And there is also nothing presumptuous about it. It's plain old truth. I've achieved what most would consider the pinnacle of success when it comes to love and relationships. A very happy and fulfilling marriage with children. I mean, this is LOVEshack, is it not? It is easy to say in an internet forum... for the same price I can say I am actually Rocco Sigfredi or Miguel de Cervantes.... Link to post Share on other sites
ThaWholigan Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 OK, first I would like to agree with you in one think, I don't get it! Now my point is not why you like a girl, and that if you are in a monogamous relationship you expect her to be loyal and faithful, I understand that... my point or question is why would you want to go in a monogamous relationship with a woman.. why would you like to have a woman in exclusivity if you don't mind other people sharing on her in the past.... I hope I am being clear with the question... is not about boundaries, is not about cheating... is just plain asking you... why if you don't care about what a woman did in the past you suddenly care about what she will be doing now... you still can have a love relationship without being exclusive... why would you choose monogamy? just curious.... I would choose monogamy because sex has a meaning for me, if sex would be just meaningless it would not be a problem... therefore since for you sex is meaningless I wanted to know why you would embrace monogamy.... Because now that she is in my life, I want her to myself - I desire a long term companion to love and to have regular sex with. I would be faithful - I expect the same from my partner. I care about what she will be doing now because she's with me now. She wasn't with me before, I likely didn't know her before, so the past does not bother me. The present is more concern to me. And sex does mean something to me - it's just that having it outside a relationship isn't bad to me. Link to post Share on other sites
animalover Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Because now that she is in my life, I want her to myself - I desire a long term companion to love and to have regular sex with. I would be faithful - I expect the same from my partner. I care about what she will be doing now because she's with me now. She wasn't with me before, I likely didn't know her before, so the past does not bother me. The present is more concern to me. And sex does mean something to me - it's just that having it outside a relationship isn't bad to me. Thank you for your patience! Finally we get to the $1M question... what does sex mean to you? Why it is more important what your girlfriend does sexually when she is with you than in her past... at the end of the day is a penis entering her vagina... why the timing of the sex makes the difference... If you can love a woman who has had sex with lets say 30 men, why would you care if it becomes 31? She still loves you, you are still her priority, you still capable of living together and make a family without having to be exclusive... the last question again is... what turns into your mind, what is the switcher that makes you care about her sexuality now? You say you want her for yourself? Is that not possessive? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ThaWholigan Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Thank you for your patience! Finally we get to the $1M question... what does sex mean to you? Sex can mean what I want it to mean at any given point. Why it is more important what your girlfriend does sexually when she is with you than in her past... at the end of the day is a penis entering her vagina... why the timing of the sex makes the difference... This is a stupid question to be honest. It makes a difference because we are in a relationship now. The union changes everything. We were not together. I really am confused - I want you to outline your point before I answer anymore questions. If you can love a woman who has had sex with lets say 30 men, why would you care if it becomes 31? She still loves you, you are still her priority, you still capable of living together and make a family without having to be exclusive... the last question again is... what turns into your mind, what is the switcher that makes you care about her sexuality now? You say you want her for yourself? Is that not possessive? Sure it is. But if I'm f*cking her, I'm not f*cking anybody else. I expect the same. I can love a woman who has had sex with 30 men because I can. It can happen. She could be perfect for me. At that point, if we decide to be in a relationship, it will likely be in a monogamous relationship. Her sexuality isn't dictated by her promiscuity. I'm really not understanding this. Are you saying that it is hypocritical for me to want a relationship with a girl who may be promiscuous? Link to post Share on other sites
Untouchable_Fire Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Because of genetic hardcoding. Women, back then, needed strong, virile men...to be able to have sex and protect them and their offspring. Men who sleep around with a lot of women are seen as sexually "strong"...and thus, due to genetic hardcoding, there is still that "attraction" to men. So... why don't we begin advocating some kind of sexual socialism? Clearly we have some guys like George Clooney that are drowning in vagina, and some women like Lindsey Lohan that can't walk across a room without tripping over dicks! Why not have the government start taking sex from these people and giving it to those who need it much more? Link to post Share on other sites
veggirl Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 TheWholigan, Sometimes I think I'm just a glutton for punishment. Half the time I tell myself I should just limit my posting to the sex and water cooler forums, but then I keep finding myself drawn back in here. Probably for the same reason people watch reality TV. It "appears" to be reality, but we all know that we are just seeing vast extremes on human interaction...and we can't help but be fascinated by it somehow. Not a glutton for punishment just too hellbent on being right and proving it You and Whol are HERE on the scale, some of the other posters on this thread are THERE, and none of you wanna give an inch. lol pointless. Link to post Share on other sites
ThaWholigan Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Not a glutton for punishment just too hellbent on being right and proving it You and Whol are HERE on the scale, some of the other posters on this thread are THERE, and none of you wanna give an inch. lol pointless. Right about what exactly? He's asking me a question, and I don't understand his point. I keep answering and I'm no closer to getting his point. Nobody is debating that they should date a woman with high numbers, I understand why. But I don't see why my (or KFJ's) approach is wrong, so I'm answering so I can get the point. Link to post Share on other sites
Author jamesbob Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share Posted January 30, 2013 Because now that she is in my life, I want her to myself Why does her having sex with other men make her no longer worthy of your commitment? I would break up with a gal if she cheated on me, but I would do it because she isn't who I thought she was, not because I wasn't getting her all to myself... Link to post Share on other sites
ThaWholigan Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Why does her having sex with other men make her no longer worthy of your commitment? I would break up with a gal if she cheated on me, but I would do it because she isn't who I thought she was, not because I wasn't getting her all to myself... I'm getting frustrated so I'm not wording it properly. Obviously she's not who I think she is if she cheats on me. The betrayal would be more important. Wanting her to be faithful to me is a given, because I would be to her. Put me out of my misery please! What is your point? That's all I want to know. Link to post Share on other sites
Author jamesbob Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share Posted January 30, 2013 I'm getting frustrated so I'm not wording it properly. Obviously she's not who I think she is if she cheats on me. The betrayal would be more important. Wanting her to be faithful to me is a given, because I would be to her. Put me out of my misery please! What is your point? That's all I want to know. I'm sorry lol! I read "sexual partners is just a number it is meaningless...... UNLESS! we are "together"". What is the reasoning behind your desire for exclusivity. If you don't care about the number of sexual partners, and it really is just a number, meaningless.... And you are not possessive, not controlling and trying to control her sexuality.... Then why would you want her to be exclusive to you, and why you exclusive to her? Wouldn't your default relationship type simply be an open relationship? I mean it's just a number, you guys take showers, you guys aren't any different after having sex with outside men/women than you were before you did it right? So why does it matter to you? It matters to me because I want the person to know I think they are a unique and valuable person to me, and I can demonstrate that by only having sex with her. (A person with a history of many partners cannot demonstrate that in the same manner) 2 Link to post Share on other sites
animalover Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Sex can mean what I want it to mean at any given point. This is a stupid question to be honest. It makes a difference because we are in a relationship now. The union changes everything. We were not together. I really am confused - I want you to outline your point before I answer anymore questions. Sure it is. But if I'm f*cking her, I'm not f*cking anybody else. I expect the same. I can love a woman who has had sex with 30 men because I can. It can happen. She could be perfect for me. At that point, if we decide to be in a relationship, it will likely be in a monogamous relationship. Her sexuality isn't dictated by her promiscuity. I'm really not understanding this. Are you saying that it is hypocritical for me to want a relationship with a girl who may be promiscuous? Not hypocritical ... but far from reasonable! I just don't understand your values about sex at all... trying to understand how someone who is adamant to engage in casual sex and who don't have a problem dating women who usually engage in casual sex care about having casual sex during a relationship... It is like making the rules for the game while playing it... just funny! Link to post Share on other sites
animalover Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 I'm sorry lol! I read "sexual partners is just a number it is meaningless...... UNLESS! we are "together"". What is the reasoning behind your desire for exclusivity. If you don't care about the number of sexual partners, and it really is just a number, meaningless.... And you are not possessive, not controlling and trying to control her sexuality.... Then why would you want her to be exclusive to you, and why you exclusive to her? Wouldn't your default relationship type simply be an open relationship? I mean it's just a number, you guys take showers, you guys aren't any different after having sex with outside men/women than you were before you did it right? So why does it matter to you? It matters to me because I want the person to know I think they are a unique and valuable person to me, and I can demonstrate that by only having sex with her. (A person with a history of many partners cannot demonstrate that in the same manner) and that is EXACTLY my point! Thank you I thought I wasn't talking clear! Link to post Share on other sites
ThaWholigan Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I'm sorry lol! I read "sexual partners is just a number it is meaningless...... UNLESS! we are "together"". What is the reasoning behind your desire for exclusivity. If you don't care about the number of sexual partners, and it really is just a number, meaningless.... And you are not possessive, not controlling and trying to control her sexuality.... Then why would you want her to be exclusive to you, and why you exclusive to her? Wouldn't your default relationship type simply be an open relationship? I mean it's just a number, you guys take showers, you guys aren't any different after having sex with outside men/women than you were before you did it right? So why does it matter to you? It matters to me because I want the person to know I think they are a unique and valuable person to me, and I can demonstrate that by only having sex with her. (A person with a history of many partners cannot demonstrate that in the same manner) How do you know a person with a history of many partners can't demonstrate that? If I am with them and only them, that is me demonstrating that I think they are unique and vulnerable to me. I have only had 2 women in my life, both on casual terms. I do not think that this is an indicator that I cannot be in a monogamous relationship, I believe I can. I'm not trying to control a woman's sexuality. What I'm saying is that I believe a promiscuous girl CAN be monogamous, and if she is with me then we are to be monogamous. The number does not matter - her being with me now matters. Why don't you understand that? I think I understand what you think now. You think that a person does not value a monogamous relationship or the person they are in one with if they have been with lots of people. I don't share that view. Not hypocritical ... but far from reasonable! I just don't understand your values about sex at all... trying to understand how someone who is adamant to engage in casual sex and who don't have a problem dating women who usually engage in casual sex care about having casual sex during a relationship... It is like making the rules for the game while playing it... just funny! It's not changing the rules. I'm not "adamant" about engaging in casual sex. I've had casual sex, but it wasn't "meaningless", just casual. It was fun, it was me becoming a fully sexually active person. So it did mean something to me. Now, I want a relationship. And obviously I care about the other woman I'm in a relationship. I'm going to be faithful and have a family for the sake of my future children and of course my wife who by then I will be in love with. Link to post Share on other sites
animalover Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 How do you know a person with a history of many partners can't demonstrate that? If I am with them and only them, that is me demonstrating that I think they are unique and vulnerable to me. I have only had 2 women in my life, both on casual terms. I do not think that this is an indicator that I cannot be in a monogamous relationship, I believe I can. I'm not trying to control a woman's sexuality. What I'm saying is that I believe a promiscuous girl CAN be monogamous, and if she is with me then we are to be monogamous. The number does not matter - her being with me now matters. Why don't you understand that? I think I understand what you think now. You think that a person does not value a monogamous relationship or the person they are in one with if they have been with lots of people. I don't share that view. It's not changing the rules. I'm not "adamant" about engaging in casual sex. I've had casual sex, but it wasn't "meaningless", just casual. It was fun, it was me becoming a fully sexually active person. So it did mean something to me. Now, I want a relationship. And obviously I care about the other woman I'm in a relationship. I'm going to be faithful and have a family for the sake of my future children and of course my wife who by then I will be in love with. Dear friend, First let me tell you that having fun and becoming a sexually active person are not sexual meanings but actual results of having sex... almost every person would have fun having sex and them having sex would be a living proof of them being sexually active.... I can't explain you what the meaning of sex is if you don't feel it... and it would anyway be a totally different conversation! I am also not trying to imply that a woman who engages in casual sex is not valid for a monogamous relationship (not for me but obviously she would be for you)... my question is going much further than that... and is really about you and not about those women... You still have failed to explain me why would you want to be in a monogamous relationship... I understand that you are looking for a relationship...but that could be an open relationship or if you want further commitment in the future you could decide to go to an open marriage... why is important to you to be exclusive? That is my whole question... You say you want to have a family and children... that is a reason to have a relationship with someone indeed but the relationship doesn't need to be monogamous... We also speak here only about sex.. the other party would be totally loyal to you emotionally, she just would have sex with other guys now and then... why would that not be an option for you? If you find the reason in your heart and you are honest... you will beguine to understand our point better! Link to post Share on other sites
Mint Sauce Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 come on people, put some effort into understanding each other. James' point could be put metaphorically as: if I have a history of giving a dozen roses every month to every girl I know, then what's the meaning of that dozen roses I give to my wife on our 10th wedding anniversary? Sure, that dozen can be loaded with much more emotion etc., but the symbolism is destroyed by the preceding history. The other people are saying: I don't need sex to have that high a symbolic value. I just want good sex with my partner, and I'll buy her some jewelry to show her how unique she is to me. Either one is fine, as long as the expectations of both partners line up, and neither party is being a hypocrite. That said, sex being such an intimate act by definition, it feels natural to me to give it such a high symbolic meaning. Link to post Share on other sites
animalover Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 come on people, put some effort into understanding each other. James' point could be put metaphorically as: if I have a history of giving a dozen roses every month to every girl I know, then what's the meaning of that dozen roses I give to my wife on our 10th wedding anniversary? Sure, that dozen can be loaded with much more emotion etc., but the symbolism is destroyed by the preceding history. The other people are saying: I don't need sex to have that high a symbolic value. I just want good sex with my partner, and I'll buy her some jewelry to show her how unique she is to me. Either one is fine, as long as the expectations of both partners line up, and neither party is being a hypocrite. That said, sex being such an intimate act by definition, it feels natural to me to give it such a high symbolic meaning. My question goes much more further than that... I just would like to understand why someone who find sex meaningless and just something that produce you pleasure or a way to have fun need to engage in a monogamous relationship.... They still can love each other and have a normal relationship while keep enjoying meaningless sex... Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 My question goes much more further than that... I just would like to understand why someone who find sex meaningless and just something that produce you pleasure or a way to have fun need to engage in a monogamous relationship.... They still can love each other and have a normal relationship while keep enjoying meaningless sex... In a loving relationship you get both the emotional stimulation as well as the physical and that's the best. Giving and taking with someone who turns you on and you respect very deeply is something that's very special. When you don't have that, physical stimulation itself is a kind of substitute but it's not the same of course. I liked all the men I casually dated even if I didn't see a future with them (like when I was travelling for example and I knew we would part ways soon). I still enjoyed their company and we liked going to parties, etc. Love takes a while to grow, even when you start a relationship it's not like you are deeply in love with the person from day 1. Casual dating with someone is a bit like the initial stages of a relationship. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
animalover Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 In a loving relationship you get both the emotional stimulation as well as the physical and that's the best. Giving and taking with someone who turns you on and you respect very deeply is something that's very special. When you don't have that, physical stimulation itself is a kind of substitute but it's not the same of course. I liked all the men I casually dated even if I didn't see a future with them (like when I was travelling for example and I knew we would part ways soon). I still enjoyed their company and we liked going to parties, etc. Love takes a while to grow, even when you start a relationship it's not like you are deeply in love with the person from day 1. Casual dating with someone is a bit like the initial stages of a relationship. Yes but you can still have the emotional stimulation without the physical part... I sill don't understand the need of a monogamous relationship... you could give your partner the emotional and physical connection while keeping having meaningless sex with those other guys.... By the way I don't see any problem with casual dating... it is indeed a good way to grow a to a more serious relationship... I have problems with sex in while casual dating... but that is another topic! Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Yes but you can still have the emotional stimulation without the physical part... I sill don't understand the need of a monogamous relationship... you could give your partner the emotional and physical connection while keeping having meaningless sex with those other guys.... I don't understand what you mean. When I love someone I don't want to have sex with other people. Even when I'm casually dating I only focus on one person except I'm not committed to working things out in a way that would turn it into a long term relationship. I don't date more than one person a time whether serious or not. I suppose I don't feel the need to. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
animalover Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I don't understand what you mean. When I love someone I don't want to have sex with other people. Even when I'm casually dating I only focus on one person except I'm not committed to working things out in a way that would turn it into a long term relationship. I don't date more than one person a time whether serious or not. I suppose I don't feel the need to. My question is not really about you but more about people who would not mind to date you... But if you want me to clarify the question and put it trough in a way you can answer it for yourself... the question is if you don't mind to enter a serious relationship with someone who has been with many partners before you... why would you mind to go to a monogamous relationship at all..? I mean... sex is meaningless so if you don't mind that person to have had sex with many other woman before why would you mind him to do it when he is with you in a relationship? Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) if you don't mind to enter a serious relationship with someone who has been with many partners before you... why would you mind to go to a monogamous relationship at all..? I mean... sex is meaningless so if you don't mind that person to have had sex with many other woman before why would you mind him to do it when he is with you in a relationship? I still don't understand what you are getting at. Do you think sex is bad and sinful? Do you think that people who are able to separate sex from emotions are bad? I can't really see why you would be asking these questions otherwise. Having several sexual partners in the past and not being monogamous are not the same thing. I'm not sure why you are equating the two. For me it always takes a long time to find someone I can very strongly relate to so I have had more casual sex than serious relationships. Why would that make me a cheat and not being able to hold a monogamous relationship? I don't understand your reasoning. Or do you think that 'good' people only have sex with 1 person in their entire life because they wait until they find the perfect partner? If you have any relationship experience then you know that when a relationship ends is often not in your control. Edited January 31, 2013 by Emilia 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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