Consolidated 'looks' discussion and society's standards of beauty for men vs women

[ltjg45]

So is your mother getting hotties or below average men like herself?

 

Maybe she is just a fireball in bed and it shows.

 

No idea.

 

For my sake, I really don't want to know but heaven's forbid I'm getting tired of hearing her brag about it.

 

Also, for the record: She hasn't had sex in about a decade as well. I know this because she always stays in the house and I should notice when someone I have no clue who he is has entered in this home. Unless someone knows her from back when she was a teenager or in her 20s, I doubt any one knows she still exists.

 

They don't need a chubby guy that likes them. There'll be a skinny one along shortly!

 

This is why I have issues with this situation.

 

Never mind. I'm not going to whack my head about this anymore. All I know is this is pretty stupid though.

 

I really don't know who is at fault for this nonsense. All I do know right now is if I'm forced to get fit, my GF needs to get fit as well.

[somedude81]

If a woman is having trouble finding a mate, or finding a mate she is attracted to, she gets the same questions and advice: are you in shape? No? Get in shape!

Actually, if it does come out that a struggling woman is overweight, people will suggest that she lose weight, and then those people will be attacked for suggesting that she lose weight.

 

And of course lets not forget about the people who think it's some sort of sin for men to admit not being attracted to over weight women. Then a few posters will chime in that overweight girls are in relationships which means that the struggling girl didn't have trouble at all.

[sillyanswer]

What bugs me is this stupid double standard.

 

We certainly don't tell chubby females to get fit.

 

Sure we do.

[man_in_the_box]

Do not confuse skinny with fit, especially when it comes to guys. Men generally to have relatively high metabolism, especially when they're younger. Ofcourse there are men that can be fit and chunky at the same time but I thinks that's comparatively much rarer. So everytime you see a thin guy with a chunky girl there's a good chance that they're living the same lifestyle but it doesn't really wear off on the guy while it obviously does on the girl.

 

Then again I also think that being skinny doesn't make your dating prospects anymore advantageous than being somewhat on the larger side. At least not such a dramatic impact as being overweight as a woman. I think the emphasis on height is a lot more crucial for men but alas.

[ascendotum]

I don't understand how you're not seeing where I'm coming from. I'm not saying just becasue a woman is chunky she HAS to be attracted to me, it doesn't work that way. I'm attracted to all types of woman and would date a woman who is chunky if I'm attracted to her. But when you see that most chunky women have skinny guys anyway, it's discouraging. And I am not going to lose weight for a woman who is out of shape, it doesn't work that way.

 

Weird, we have something in common but from totally opposite perspective. I spent many years skinny, and had chunky gfs. I was not specifically attracted to them for their figure as I actually had a stronger attraction to skinny /slender girls. The thing is the bigger girls were friendlier than the thin girls. Majority of the thin girls I fancied were seeking out dominant (physically and or psychologically) guys. I resented how the thin girls got friendly when I bulked up then reverting back when I lost the weight. I used to think I'm thin, I want thin, why should I have to body build to get with a girl that has never walked in a gym, that's fair, but it doesn't work that way.

Personally I don't think chunky women see skinny guys as hotties. I had the impression over time, that it was a case of the chunky girls having less options ending up with skinny guys with less options. A number of the thin/petite girls I liked would say how they needed a big guy to feel safer or to feel for girly. I don't see why it would be any different (but at a greater level even) for bigger women.

I live in a fat country and beefy/chunky guys really don't have any problems landing chunky/chubby girls. I totally get why you would resent having to work out to secure a relationship with a woman who doesn't. I am surprised its like that though, unless you are a really B.I.G. guy.

[Els]

Honestly, my guess is that people tend to find 'most attractive' that which is hardest to achieve in their culture. A primary example is the tanned-fair conundrum. Asian cosmetic companies sell whitening creams, and Caucasian ones sell tanning sprays. Both wanting to achieve the opposite look. Because 'fair' is generally considered attractive in Asia and 'tanned' to be attractive in Western cultures.

 

So it is with the skinny thing. In some poor countries, most notably in Africa, fat women are actually seen as the most desirable, because it's incredibly difficult for anyone to be fat there. There are 'fattening camps' that people send their daughters to, to get them better prospects for husbands.

 

Skinny young men are a dime a dozen. Sorry, but it's incredibly easy for a man in his 20s to be skinny. Most 20-yo dudes I know can gorge on fast food all day, not exercise, and still be skinny. Because men have an inherently much higher basal metabolic rate than women, and men in their teens and 20s most of all. The 'difficult' physique to achieve for a man is the muscular one, not the skinny one.

 

The 'difficult' physique to achieve for women is the one with the flat stomach and tiny waist but significant breasts and ass. This is completely different from just 'skinny'. Because the women with the genetic predisposition to be 'skinny' are also going to be predisposed to have smaller assets. So the only women who can achieve this physique are going to be the ones genetically predisposed to be larger, but who also put in an incredible amount of work and dieting to keep themselves thin. Either that, or surgery.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Elswyth

[fortyninethousand322]

The 'difficult' physique to achieve for a man is the muscular one, not the skinny one.

 

Not for me. I've always found it easier to be muscular, but hard as hell to be "skinny". Not that it's a big deal to me since I actually like having muscles, but still...

[somedude81]

Not for me. I've always found it easier to be muscular, but hard as hell to be "skinny". Not that it's a big deal to me since I actually like having muscles, but still...

You're one of those guys who built muscle easily. You're probably also around 6' right?

 

There are many, many men who will never get big. I'm one of them, I just don't have the genes to really build muscle.

[Lonely Ronin]

You're one of those guys who built muscle easily. You're probably also around 6' right?

 

There are many, many men who will never get big. I'm one of them, I just don't have the genes to really build muscle.

 

Height has nothing to do with the ability to build muscle bulk. I'm 6' and 180 lbs and while I'm really strong, I'm by no means bulky. The bulkiest guy I know is 5'3".

[fortyninethousand322]

Height has nothing to do with the ability to build muscle bulk. I'm 6' and 180 lbs and while I'm really strong, I'm by no means bulky. The bulkiest guy I know is 5'3".

 

See also: Ray Rice, Maurice Jones-Drew.

[Lonely Ronin]

See also: Ray Rice, Maurice Jones-Drew.

 

Drew for sure, he might only be 5'7", but dude looks like he could bench press a dump truck.

[HoneyBadgerDontCare]

Short guys will struggle unless their game is REALLY tight.

 

If the guy is shorter than the girl, forget about it. Game over.

[quietGuy13]

Ok From this other thread in the dating forum about this guy who met a hot girl...and from many of the other threads were guys keep saying things like "She's gorgeous" "My girlfriend is so hot" "My girlfriend is cute"

 

I'm gathering that is not only me who wants a cute beautiful or hot girl.

In fact, most guys do.

 

So why is it many people get on me just because I say I want a beautiful girl.

 

I dont hear any guys saying

"My girlfriend is ugly disgusting but I liked her personality so whatever"

 

no. I"m hearing that most guys go for the girls they consider beautiful.

[PJKino]

I gotta admit whenever im around good looking guys who constantly get approached and have women fawn over them i resent the hell out of them for how easy they have it cant count how many times ive talked to a women only for her to ask me about my friend and his situation.

 

I know its not all about looks and blah blah blah but having looks sure as hell makes it easier to get your foot in numeorus doors.

[Imajerk17]

It's not about your looks!!!

[carhill]

Good looking people, generally encompassing those who turn heads when entering a room, have their own set of problems relative to interpersonal relationships and relations in general. Outsiders most often see the 'perks' but aren't as privy to or aware of the other stuff. It's no different than having something else that people want, covet, or are jealous/envious of. Mixed bag.

 

In the long run, meaning the journey of living, it's the substance of the person which matters. Good looks will only take a person so far, and time is the enemy.

[MrRightNow]

Of course being good-looking is a huge advantage when it comes to dating, but you can still attract people with a great personality. The vast majority of people are average looking and still manage to find someone. We all have to work with what we have. Staying fit and dressing well is key. Some guys use not being good-looking as an excuse to not bother trying to get dates, and then whine about their lack of success with women.

[Roadkill007]

\

In the long run, meaning the journey of living, it's the substance of the person which matters. Good looks will only take a person so far, and time is the enemy.

 

Oh captain my captain!

 

Such a poetic line XD

and 100% agree with what car said.

[Suave]

I used to be 125lbs soaking wet at 5 foot 10.

 

Fast forward three years and I am now 165lbs at 9% body fat. Feels good man.

 

But it took an absolute ****load of hard work because of my body type. Still, it helps more than anything in the dating game (except for money which I have relatively little of.) Other guys have much less to chirp me over compared to how it used to be and that makes a big difference when competing for the same girls at parties or clubs. Of course, the older we get the worse our looks naturally become so one must be experienced in social situations for when that starts to happen.

 

I laugh at the guys who think that getting to 220lbs of muscle at my height will automatically make up for any deficiencies in game. All you need is a decent amount of muscle and a six pack and you will automatically stand out.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Suave

[MrRightNow]

All you need is a decent amount of muscle and a six pack and you will automatically stand out.

 

Yeah, that's true. I've also gained a lot of muscle mass over the past year. I actually enjoy the increased respect I get from other guys more than the attention from women.

[Galaxias]

Once in a relationship, women report still feeling like they are "competing" in some way with more beautiful women. They guys are still looking to Maxim-type images to see beautiful women, next to whom the gf doesn't feel that she measures up. She feels he is "settling" with her, and would be happier if she were more attractive (this is what I've read on LS...not my personal experience).

 

The same women adore their average-looking bf, and have eyes only for him. So he gets her full attention, and she gets "boys will be boys....strip clubs are just for fun...." and the like.

 

This is so very true!! I'm in a relationship right now with a great guy who lets me know in so many ways that he loves me and is attracted to me.

 

But damn if he's not posting day and night on girlie websites and the pages of friends in bikinis. "Like" this, "comment" that, "hubba-hubba" the other.

 

I honestly know it's just like the old dog who keeps chasing cars knowing full well that if he ever actually caught one he wouldn't know what to do with it, but there IS a double standard about it.

 

Everyone knows he is/we are in a relationship, but when HE posts this stuff that could even remotely make me uncomfortable (doesn't seem to make the recipients uncomfortable, btw), it's all in good fun, he's so cool, and everybody just looooves him.

 

If I say that someone is MY dear friend, or I post something even remotely flattering on or about a friend, I'm immediately called out. What gives? So it's ok for guys to seek attention/validation elsewhere and make it out to be harmless, but if a girl seeks the same thing, it's no longer harmless?

 

How about we forego the whole attention-seeking thing in the first place, and work on making the person we're with feel valued?

 

You know, and it's not even like it's "more beautiful" women. It's "more available" women, or, simply, "more women". I don't know how fast and true that matter of men being hard-wired to be more visual thing is, because I know I like to look, but I do see that some people (men AND women) are into the whole "quantity" thing.

 

Can I feel like I'm attractive enough, worthy enough, if only ONE person is into me? And maybe especially if that person is not likely ever going to be featured on page 27 of Maxim's next issue.

 

Even if I have to pay for that extra attention (one way or another), maybe that will fill that hole in my self-esteem that nothing else can fill.

 

It's like we can't win for losing. We have to either BE a hottie, or at least SCORE one, so that we can feel like we're worth being loved for ourselves.

 

Hilarious, and terribly sad. How human of us.

[Suave]

Yeah, that's true. I've also gained a lot of muscle mass over the past year. I actually enjoy the increased respect I get from other guys more than the attention from women.

 

Right? No longer do I get some douchebag coming up to me when I am flirting with someone and poking fun at my pipe-cleaner arms. And there is really nothing you can say to counter that when it is the truth, lest they kick your ass in front of everyone

 

But the added muscle helps ward off those pesky chirpers and also helps physically attract women as well. It is almost a necessity nowadays.

[Casablanca]

Not sure if to post here or new topic, but decided I'd put it here

Yahoo! Shine - Women's Lifestyle | Healthy Living and Fashion Blogs

 

My boyfriend Ali is 5'10" with friendly blue eyes, a dimpled smile and a fit, muscular body. He's someone you'd expect to see with a really hot, thin woman...not an overweight girl like me.

 

We've been dating for 18 months, and wherever we go—whether we're walking hand in hand through the mall, airport or down the street in his hometown (Glasgow, Scotland) or mine (San Jose, California)—we get confused looks that say, He can do better than her!

 

 

When people say things out loud, their comments range from cruel ("Is he blind?" or "He's only with you to get a green card") to quips such as, "It's great he can see past your looks" or "He's so nice for being with you." I usually respond, "He's not doing me a favor—he's my boyfriend!"

 

 

Now and then, even people close to me made unkind remarks. Once, when I confided to a friend, "I can't believe he likes me!" he answered, "Yeah, I know!"

 

But the worst reactions are from anonymous people online. I have a YouTube channel, Glowpinkstah, with more than 250,000 subscribers, and, as a comic, I review beauty products, answer fan mail, share my edgy brand of humor and details about my life, so they know all about Ali and me. While most are supportive, there are a fair number of bullies:

 

"She has a boyfriend? What is wrong with the world?"

 

"These two had sex?! Oh god, why?"

 

Some have gone so far as to ask how we have sex. I feel like saying, "If you have to ask, clearly you missed an important class back in the fifth grade."

 

 

I'm 25 years old, and I've been overweight my whole life. I was a chubby kid, but I wasn't big like I am now. (And, no, I won't disclose my weight.) I just really liked food, and I didn't think about consequences. Also, I didn't care that much about the way I looked—but other people did. In middle school, one guy imitated the way my thighs rubbed together when I walked. While it upset me, I realized that it was more his problem than mine.

 

I met Ali, 22, online in late 2009. Liv Tyler's sister Mia tweeted a link to one of my videos; Ali followed it to my Twitter feed. He says he saw my picture and thought, "She's cute." Then he caught my show on the now-defunct Blog TV, which allowed subscribers to talk to me live via webcam. While I was talking about my dreams, he volunteered to decode them. "I study psychology," he explained. So I gave him my Instant Messenger screen name.

 

Two-and-a-half years later, the miles and time zones between us hardly mattered. We were spending so many hours a week talking online. I thought Ali was cute too, but I figured someone like him wouldn't have feelings for me. And he was three years younger—I had dated so many immature guys and I wanted someone older. Meanwhile, Ali had just gotten out of a relationship, and did I really want to fall for someone who lived in Scotland?

 

Yet I didn't feel complete if hours passed without a text from him, and he said he couldn't start his day without us Skyping. I knew he was into big girls—his exes were chubby. Some think it's weird, but it's like having a thing for blondes: It's just a preference. And ours wasn't a Catfish situation, either: Each of us knew what the other looked like, and we included the other's friends and families in our online chats. We didn't keep secrets—except for the fact that we were falling in love.

 

Finally, in December 2011, I blurted out, "I have feelings for you!" over Skype...then instantly regretted it. We were best friends—had I ruined things? But Ali looked right into the webcam and said, "I've been waiting to hear you say that for a long time." And that he had feelings for me, too.

 

Not long after, Ali—who I was now seeing exclusively—told me he loved me. We had yet to meet in person.

 

On May 15, 2012, Ali flew 5,000 miles to be with me. He stayed in my family's home, which my parents were fine with, having spent the last six months getting to know him online. When Ali landed at San Francisco airport, he called my cell phone. "Where are you?" he asked. I was outside baggage claim, nervously looking for his ginger hair. "Hold on," he said, then hung up. I turned around and saw him walking toward me with a huge smile on his face. He gave me a hug and kissed me on the lips. I thought to myself, He's my boyfriend, and he's here!

 

Seven months later, I visited Ali in Glasgow. I had talked to his family on Skype, but I was nervous to meet them because none of my exes' parents had approved of me. One guy's mother noticed he kept a picture of me as a child in his wallet and said, "She doesn't give you a current picture because she's ugly and fat now." Another ex told me, with sincerity: "Maybe if you lost weight, my parents would accept you, and we could be together again."

 

Happily, Ali's parents were as welcoming as mine were to him. I had never really talked about the guys I dated to my parents before. But they love Ali and the feeling is mutual. That's a good thing, because later this summer, he's moving to California to get his PhD in clinical psychology.

 

Ali is the best thing that's ever happened to me. He makes me feel like I'm good enough all of the time. I have days when I say, "Why do you like me?" He says, "Because you're beautiful and for the person you are." And he's been good for my health. I was at my heaviest when we met, and I've lost 40 pounds since. My goal is to lose 80 pounds total, and he's very supportive. Before Ali, I never showed any skin whatsoever, but he makes me feel confident going out in a cute little dress that doesn't cover me head-to-toe. I can wear a sleeveless dress, shorts—things that typically people don't want to see me wearing—and not care.

 

My YouTube videos are changing too. I realized there was more to comedy than making lewd jokes. My audience is growing up with me, and there are younger kids watching. Shouldn't I be a better example?

 

So, with Ali's support, I started

, a collaborative video project in which my subscribers help me spread the word that there is no one "normal" way to look or love. Beauty and relationships come in all shapes and sides: brown, yellow, short, tall, thin, fat—and one partner doesn't have to mirror the other. Love is love. That's a lesson that Ali taught me, and now I want to teach it to the rest of the world.

[Els]

Interesting post, Casablanca. It does make me wonder why someone would make themselves a public presence on YOUTUBE of all places, and then decry people making stupid and shallow comments there - youtube is literally troll central, perhaps second only to 4chan. But she definitely does have a point about society in general.

 

However, I think a very important point is that no matter how many double standards society has, how some of the general beliefs suck, etc, we all are able to make choices about the types of dynamics we allow into our own relationships. Because the two people in it are the people whose opinions REALLY matter.

 

If a woman genuinely wants a man who doesn't attribute that much importance to appearances, she should prioritize that. If a man genuinely wants a woman who doesn't attribute much importance to how much he earns, he should prioritize that. There are such men and women in the world, and not all of them are necessarily selling like hot cakes.

[somedude81]

Hah, I saw that article too.

 

I had a couple of thoughts about it.

 

1. The guy is a chubby chaser. " I knew he was into big girls—his exes were chubby. Some think it's weird, but it's like having a thing for blondes: It's just a preference."

 

2. She's had several exes before. And from what I'm guessing, they weren't big like her. I wonder if she has, or would date an obese man.

 

This goes into my main belief that no matter how bad a woman looks, she will always be able to find men.

 

That point is even more reinforced by one of my neighbors. The wife weighs at least 100 pounds more than the guy does. Maybe the dude just really likes fat women?