Don't believe it's the truth, but it might be...

[Mr. Lucky]

By the way I am very curious about this part... When you say "I was" you mean you are not anymore a BS? how did you manage to stop being a BS?

Well, I could formulate some clever response based on semantics as you've obviously done but, in my case, I meant that my ex-W's cheating occurred some time ago...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Mr. Lucky]

Did your wife went to the pass and undid the deed? Once a BS you are always a BS, maybe now you are reconciled and happy and maybe forget about the problem helps you but make no mistake the betrayal was there...

 

I'm curious what your take would be on this:

 

A couple of years ago, there was a thread on this forum from a gentleman that had been married 25-30 years (I'm paraphrasing here based on recall). Decades ago he had discovered that his newlywed bride had cheated on him by having a ONS with her professor (I think both the OP and his WS were students at the time). He made the decision to forgive her, they reconciled and went on with their lives. By his description, she was (post affair) a wonderful spouse - fabulous mother, enthusiastic sexual partner, steadfast through sickness and health, no reason to doubt her fidelity or commitment to him. They'd largely enjoyed a great and enviable life and marriage together after what was obviously a difficult beginning.

 

What led him to post here was that, in his mid 50's and out of the blue IIRC, he began to be bothered by thoughts of the affair including the familiar devil-in the-details wondering of who did what to whom. He was looking for feedback as whether he should confront his wife with these thoughts and, if so, what he would hope to accomplish by doing so.

 

What would be your advice to him ???

 

Mr. Lucky

 

BTW - there were a number of BS that immediately jumped into the thread and said "dump that bitch, divorce her, once a cheater, etc..."

[road]

If the affair is already admitted, yes. If the biggest truth is already admitted then the polygraph is pointless but to futher shame and diminish the WS.

 

The BS having the WS take a polygraph is not pointless. It gets the whole truth out.

 

The BS did nothing to shame the WS and AP.

 

The actions of the WS and AP during their affair are the cause of them feeling shame.

 

The WS and AP affair diminished themselves by having an affair.

 

Don't shoot the messanger.

 

Shoot the criminals (don't tell me that affairs are not against the law when I am being metaphorical instead of literal) that did the crime.

[road]

Well said. There has to be a point where the decision is made to move on, regardless of what they may be. Hnaging it over the WS's head forever will not be productive.

 

 

Demanding the trickle truth be stopped and the whole truth be told now is not holding anything over the WS's head forever.

[road]

OK, my 2 cents on this thread:

If you're at the point in a broken relationship where you're even considering a polygraph, that's a sign that you have to move on.

On your wedding day, did you ever imagine that a polygraph would one day be in the picture? Of course not.

I would run like the wind if I found my relationship hanging in the balance over a darn polygraph. That's not a healthy relationship.

 

 

The relationship is not a healthy thats why there was an affair. The relationship will never heal and get healthy without the truth.

 

The WS has proved that he can lie with his affair.

 

Now the WS has to prove that he is telling the truth. Thus the need for the poly.

[Realist3]

Demanding the trickle truth be stopped and the whole truth be told now is not holding anything over the WS's head forever.

 

Focusing on minute details is fruitless. Yes, I understand that you suddenly feel you don't know this person that you married to. And for most people they probably don't.

 

Being able to forgive will go a lot further than hounding them. "I know you did wrong by me, honey. Let's move forward."

 

What many of you are undertaking is a control.power issue which has no beefit in the longterm.

 

"you want to be faithful to me, be faithful to me. You want to mess around, mess around. This is your chance and choice." Leave it at that and you will be amazed the response you get.

[road]

I would never have said to dump that girl, nor would I have advised him to confront his wife anymore either...

 

One thing is someone who can't move on and keep needing reassurance year after year and other thing is someone who moved on and after many years have a need of details... If he didn't requested the details at the beginning he can't expect them now... besides that would destroy the healing process and the foundation of the relationship.

 

 

This shows that without the whole truth the BH will be haunted for the rest of their life. It took this BH 25 years for him to reach is breaking point because he could no longer avoid not knowing the whole truth.

 

Where his WW moved on and leave her affair in the past because she had the whole truth. The WW complains this is old news my affair happened 25 years ago why can't you leave it in the past.

 

What the WW does not see, can not see, or chooses to not see is that until her BH got the whole story now that this news is brand new news to the BH.

 

The WW has to realize that for her BH to be at the point where she has healed he needs 25 years as well.

 

The WW refused to start her BH's recovery clock the same time as she started her own recovery clock. She can not complain now that her BH is 25 years behind where she is at now.

 

She cheated on him in their marriage with an affair.

 

She cheated on him in recovery by witholding the truth for 25 years. She made her BH dangle for 25 years to get the truth.

[Realist3]

Realist just because your wife don't care about you cheating doesn't mean that for all the rest of the world it takes more than "I know you did wrong by me, honey. Let's move forward.". It is so clear you know nothing... I don't understand why I find myself answering you every time... I still need to find this ignore button...

 

You know what I said was true. You don't know your spouse. You thought you did, but you don't, and hence you get all hot and bothered. Insecurities abound.

 

IMO, if you would take a more mature approach, you might find a better result. Treat your spouse as an equal. There is an old saying about loving something and letting it go. Let people live their lives. It may not turn out as you wish, but at least you know where you stand. Caging people into your dream relationship will never work.

[worldgonewrong]

The relationship is not a healthy thats why there was an affair. The relationship will never heal and get healthy without the truth.

 

The WS has proved that he can lie with his affair.

 

Now the WS has to prove that he is telling the truth. Thus the need for the poly.

 

I understand that.

 

However, it doesn't mean the relationship will necessary heal and get healthy even when the truth is all laid out either.

[road]

I understand that.

 

However, it doesn't mean the relationship will necessary heal and get healthy even when the truth is all laid out either.

 

True.

 

But healing will never happened without the BS getting the truth.

[Realist3]

We are not equal, she cheated and I didn't that is a big difference... look, is fine that you are proud of cheating on your wife in her face while being the son that your parents in law never had etc... but you don't know a dime about me or what I am going on... so stop pretending... I actually don't care about what you have to say, I want to hear what people who have been there have to say...

 

So I am supposed to say " honey you wrong me, but is ok lets move on" ... and be happy? Who are you Walt Disney?

 

 

I'm saying, grow up. You do not live in Disney Land no matter how much you wished you did. That is not reality. In the real world people are attracted to other people, and sometimes they form a connection. It does not mean that is the end of your world.

 

You can certainly spend the rest of your days pining for that "perfect" relationship, but you are likely to be disappointed. You have a life with this person, why not try and make the most of it?

[CantgetoveritNY]

 

So I am supposed to say " honey you wrong me, but is ok lets move on" ... and be happy?

 

 

A lot of people have posted that is exactly what they did and it worked. I'm not saying I can do that but if some one can do it and it works for them, that is great.

[Mr. Lucky]

But healing will never happened without the BS getting the truth.

You're never going to know the "whole" truth and in fact it isn't knowable. At best, you get a Chinese menu of who did what to whom - "We did one from Column A, two from Column B and one from Column C". All of the other lurid details that play out in technicolor in a BS mind are subject to the vagaries of recall, intention and interpretation.

 

If you think quizzing or polygraphing your WS to find out what she thinks today about what she remembers about what she thought she was feeling when she lied to you months - or years - ago is valuable then have at it. And remember to filter her responses through the desire of a remorseful WS to lessen whatever hurt and pain they've already caused you.

 

Again, at some point you either get over it or you don't (BTW, I didn't). And that leaves 4 possible outcomes:

 

1). Get over it and stay married

2). Don't get over it and stay married

3). Get over it and divorce

4). Don't get over it and divorce

 

Pick one...

 

Mr. Lucky

[road]

You're never going to know the "whole" truth and in fact it isn't knowable. At best, you get a Chinese menu of who did what to whom - "We did one from Column A, two from Column B and one from Column C". All of the other lurid details that play out in technicolor in a BS mind are subject to the vagaries of recall, intention and interpretation.

 

If you think quizzing or polygraphing your WS to find out what she thinks today about what she remembers about what she thought she was feeling when she lied to you months - or years - ago is valuable then have at it. And remember to filter her responses through the desire of a remorseful WS to lessen whatever hurt and pain they've already caused you.

 

Again, at some point you either get over it or you don't (BTW, I didn't). And that leaves 4 possible outcomes:

 

1). Get over it and stay married

2). Don't get over it and stay married

3). Get over it and divorce

4). Don't get over it and divorce

 

Pick one...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

The whole truth can be known when you have a WS that is truely remorseful and willing to take the first step to repair the broken trust by being honest and telling their BS the truth.

 

For those that have been here for years or on other infidelity sites have you not seen the countless BH's that never could move forward because their WW stone walled them and refused to answer their questions and be honest?

 

The WS had no problems having an affair. The WH's/WW's had no problems playing hide the sausage. Every time the sausage went in and out of view it did not make the sick, ill, no they just kept playing hide the sausage. When their date was done they had no problem going back home to their BS's.

 

Then another date. Still playing hide the sausage. Still not getting sick from their hide the sausage game. Then another date, and so on till caught.

 

They were able to do the deed with no problem. So they have no excuse to not be able to tell their BS exactly what, when, where, who, and how they did their AP.

 

Only the BS controls what he needs to be told.

 

What a WS thinks a BS needs is irrelavent.

 

Remember the WS judgement said that it was ok for them to have an affair. This alone shows that the WS judgment is impaired.

[aussietigerwolf]

I doubt she was lying about the tattoo. I have one and no one has ever asked about its meaning.

[Steadfast]

It is hard enough to know what's truth and fiction speaking *in person* with a cheater. How much more difficult is it on a internet forum? A lot more.

 

I'm not so closed-minded to think that if a technology is available, then use it. But I tend to look past any given action and focus on what a person will have afterwards. Are we comfortable basing our foundational decisions on the results of a machine? From that point on? If the answer is yes, then schedule the testing. Stranger things have been used I suppose, or trust gained from things even more strange. Different people, different views.

 

Too bad there isn't a machine that can tell us the future. Then again, I'd probably pass on that too. I'm happier carving out my own destiny, thank you very much.

[Steadfast]

Does he know if our future is guaranteed just because he took the polygraph? Nope. We have no idea if we're going to make it. But that was our starting point.

 

Alice, that's fantastic. I'm glad it worked out. But? I'd say the star in this story isn't the polygraph machine, it's your husband. If the machine helped him 'get right' and gave you something to hang your hat on, that's good.

 

Hard to argue with success!

[beenburned]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned how some WS will never learn from their mistakes unless they are forced to face the consequences.

 

I believe that cheaters that get away with cheating without getting caught are more likely to repeat their behavior in the future!

That is mainly due to their old thought/beliefs about cheating never being challenged, nor have they faced the enormous damage/fall out from a d-day.

 

Cheaters tend to befriend others who agree with their lifestyle and choices, therefore making personal changes for the better almost impossible due to the secret still being kept from the BS.

[worldgonewrong]

They were able to do the deed with no problem. So they have no excuse to not be able to tell their BS exactly what, when, where, who, and how they did their AP.

 

In theory.

Like you said, it requires true remorse for that 'no excuse' thing to apply and stick.

 

See, I guess where I diverge from this whole thread is the desire to get into specifics. It's enough for me to know the WW slept around, period.

I have no curiosity to know the specifics (e.g. sex positions, sweet nothings murmured during pillow talk, etc.). I wouldn't want to place myself metaphorically in the bedroom with them.

 

Only the BS controls what he needs to be told.

 

Provided he's allowed control - which is a funny catch-22.

He lost control when the WW slept around. And now he's put in the position of trying to establish control contingent upon her acquiescence. See what I mean? It's still dependent on her. She still has a level of control above it all. Still imbalanced. Which is why I think that idea of control, for the BS in the aftermath of an affair, is somewhat illusory.

[Mr. Lucky]

Remember the WS judgement said that it was ok for them to have an affair. This alone shows that the WS judgment is impaired.

So why on earth would anyone stay married to such an obviously flawed person ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[road]

So why on earth would anyone stay married to such an obviously flawed person ???

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Does it make you feel better to compare apples to oranges?

 

Or do you feel better grasping at straws?

 

Taking things out of context and trying to make point is not valid reasoning.

 

All people are flawed. All people make mistakes. WS's after an affair act in a way that shows they are worthy a shot at recovery and some do not.

 

Some BS's will never be able to accept their WS back after an affair some can.

[Decorative]

All people make mistakes. For sure.

 

But an affair is not a mistake. It's a series of choices.

 

My husband and I are happily reconciled - but I would have been out the door as fast as a cartoon character running from an oversized anvil had he ever called it a mistake.

[Owl]

Here are my thoughts on the "questions and answers" that the OP have, and the burning need for "truth" that most BS's have.

 

First off...if a BS is reconciling, that means that in some fashion or another they have to "forgive" the WS.

 

A huge part of that is the need to have an accurate understanding of what it is that they're being expected to forgive. Sure, some folks can "forgive and forget" without a care about what it is that they're forgiving...to me that seems pretty shallow and short-sighted, but hey, it works for them. But that doesn't work for most others. Most of us have to understand what it is we're being asked (or expected) to forgive.

 

There's also the issues around the truthfullness/trustworthiness of the WS now...when they clearly weren't before. If you're going to attempt to continue a relationship with someone after the trust has been thoroughly damaged, one of the first places that most folks tend to start rebuilding that trust is by being honest about what they'd lied about before.

 

A WS being honest about the affair...what was hidden and lied about before...is an indication of true remorse and a true desire to rebuild the relationship on honesty. A WS who trickle-truths or lies AGAIN is indicating that they are NOT willing to rebuild the new relationship on trust...they're STILL not trustworthy.

 

My wife didn't understand my need to understand the depth/scope of her affair at first...after time, and with the help of our MC, she did. She got it. She realized that it was a way for her to demonstrate her honesty and trustworthiness now, where she hadn't been before. Instead of being insulted by it, she learned to use it as an opportunity to actually start fixing the damage that had been done by her deceit previously.

 

But there you go.

 

This is why most BS's go through the whole "gotta have the truth" thing.

 

And if you think about it...it makes sense why many (current) WS's don't "get it". They STILL don't understand the need for honesty or truth in a relationship...so they can't understand why someone would insist on it in their own relationships, or offer it to others who may also need similar information to make their own informed decisions.

[BetrayedH]

A lot of people have posted that is exactly what they did and it worked. I'm not saying I can do that but if some one can do it and it works for them, that is great.

 

I highly doubt this. In fact, I'd like to see one example.

[BetrayedH]

So why on earth would anyone stay married to such an obviously flawed person ???

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Because some people can learn and change. The poly is one tool to help a BS determine if this has happened.