Realist3 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Very well said. And, at least in my case, eventually very true... But when does it end? And I don't mean figuratively, I mean literally - when does it end? Are you going to put the polygraph guy on retainer? Move him into the guest room for easy access? Buy the iPolygraph app for your phone ??? Here's the simple truth if you're ever going to reconcile with and re-commit to a cheating spouse - at some point you realize that while the mental questions like Ray's tattoo thought will keep coming, the answers stop being important. If you can get there and forgive, you've made it. If you can't and won't forget, you haven't and should move on... Mr. Lucky I agree. I said the same exact thing a few pages ago. All that is going on now is doubling down on destruction of any hopes of reconcilliation. Link to post Share on other sites
meandmyself Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 What positive are you doing to yourself with all of this focus on details? You have to ask yourself that question and answer it honestly. Do you want to keep being hit over the head with a sledgehammer? What good does that do you, or your relationship moving forward? What do you know about what he feels? You are a WS and a OM but not a BS so please abstain to give advises about something you don't know! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
CantgetoveritNY Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Update: How do you ever know for sure if they are being honest?? You can't, you have to take that leap of faith. But how do you take that leap when you have so little trust and faith in them? How about this, and I'm just thinking out loud here, looking for your response or anyone's, what if you don't believe her but stop asking? What if I don't believe my wife about some of the less important details or still have doubts about details, but just decide to let it go. Is that so bad to look the other way, to let her think that I believe something that I'm doubtful about? I really do want to know the truth but at some point I feel like her wanting to keep it unknown may be greater than my will to uncover the truth. The WS's all lie to get away with it in the first place and later to spare us and to spare themselves. Uncovering every single lie that you want the truth about may just be to much to expect. Or is it? I don't know. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
CantgetoveritNY Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 What positive are you doing to yourself with all of this focus on details? You have to ask yourself that question and answer it honestly. Do you want to keep being hit over the head with a sledgehammer? What good does that do you, or your relationship moving forward? I like this in theory. Link to post Share on other sites
Realist3 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 What do you know about what he feels? You are a WS and a OM but not a BS so please abstain to give advises about something you don't know! I can empathize with what he feels. The question is what good he is doing for himself. He may feel it is important to him, but is it really? Having cheerleaders say, "Yes", does not answer the question honestly. Link to post Share on other sites
Realist3 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I like this in theory. The basic tenets of the relationship were violated. How and in which ways is irrellevant. You are either moving forward or you are not. Right now he is not. And if anyone can explain to me how this path is a positive for the relationship, I am all ears. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
meandmyself Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 The basic tenets of the relationship were violated. How and in which ways is irrellevant. You are either moving forward or you are not. Right now he is not. And if anyone can explain to me how this path is a positive for the relationship, I am all ears. I tried to explain it and I guess you didn't want to read it... or you don't understand it since you don't have experienced it but some people can't move on (even if they wanted) without having the whole truth, it is obsessive, my believe is that is not even about knowing the truth, it is about knowing that he can trust again his partner because she has told the truth... Because you have never been there you don't know what trickle truth does to the betrayed partner, it does break all the trust again and again till you finally get the feeling that finally the other party is being honest... Why do I need to explain you this?? Ray knows what he needs for healing... if he wants the truth he will keep looking for it doesn't matter what you or I say, if he feels he can already move on, he will. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
CantgetoveritNY Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 The basic tenets of the relationship were violated. How and in which ways is irrellevant. You are either moving forward or you are not. Right now he is not. And if anyone can explain to me how this path is a positive for the relationship, I am all ears. I understand that it is not a positive for the relationship. And that I'm being selfish to keep asking these questions of my WS. But I do feel entitled to be a little selfish right now. And maybe to the point of ruining the reconciliation. But the OP and myself have to realize that we are taking the chance of driving our WS away with too many questions and too much insistence on every stone being upturned. Link to post Share on other sites
Realist3 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Ray knows what he needs for healing... if he wants the truth he will keep looking for it doesn't matter what you or I say, if he feels he can already move on, he will. I disagree. If he did know he would not be coming on a message board looking for validation of his approach. He has chosen a path and many here agree with that path, yet after all of this time he still feels like it is "d-day" by the continuous focus of the details of his wife's A. How that is a process of healing and progress doesn't make much sense. At this point it is just re-living the past. Maybe he will finally find something out in the details that makes him walk away. If that is what he is searching for, he may well find it, but what he is doing now does nothing to help his reltionship move forward. Not for him, and certainly not for her. Link to post Share on other sites
Realist3 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I understand that it is not a positive for the relationship. And that I'm being selfish to keep asking these questions of my WS. But I do feel entitled to be a little selfish right now. And maybe to the point of ruining the reconciliation. But the OP and myself have to realize that we are taking the chance of driving our WS away with too many questions and too much insistence on every stone being upturned. I can understand that, but at some point you have to look toward your long term goal. Are you ruining and chance of reconcilliation by going through this process? When does it stop? When does the balance of two people become so dmamged that you become an over-seer? That is not healthy. Link to post Share on other sites
meandmyself Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I can understand that, but at some point you have to look toward your long term goal. Are you ruining and chance of reconcilliation by going through this process? When does it stop? When does the balance of two people become so dmamged that you become an over-seer? That is not healthy. yeah, you are ruining a chance to reconciliation now and broke down in 2 months if you don't get the disclosure you need... You want o move on, do it! Just as easy as that... but if you have not closed that episode... you know as good as I do that you will keep that questions bugging you in your mind till it destroys all the good job towards healing and reconciliation you have done yet... you can also take some time to think about things, come clean with yourself and understand if you can live with the truths that you already know.. you can? Great! You can't ... you are at the same place that at the beginning... but more frustrated and reconciliation possibilities are minimized.. besides your wife won't be open to talk about this for ever... so what to do? Link to post Share on other sites
Realist3 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 so what to do? You move on and let it go if you sincerely want to have a future together. Let the spouse prove themselves to you again in the present. That is all that matters from here on out. That won't happen by continually doubting their description of what took place in the past. Either move on or don't. But don't sit here questioning and doubting what they are saying about past transgressions. All that does is further damage. Link to post Share on other sites
meandmyself Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 You move on and let it go if you sincerely want to have a future together. Let the spouse prove themselves to you again in the present. That is all that matters from here on out. That won't happen by continually doubting their description of what took place in the past. Either move on or don't. But don't sit here questioning and doubting what they are saying about past transgressions. All that does is further damage. You don't freaking know what is to have the idea of your wife with another man in you head 24/7... YOU DON"T KNOW IT so don't come to tell me how do I need to react or to behave... Why are you in this forum? Is this a jock for you? Do you enjoy other people's pain? Why? I still don't understand for the life of me why someone who is not related to this topic would come here to give lessons on how to survive an affair... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 You don't freaking know what is to have the idea of your wife with another man in you head 24/7... YOU DON"T KNOW IT so don't come to tell me how do I need to react or to behave... Why are you in this forum? Is this a jock for you? Do you enjoy other people's pain? Why? I still don't understand for the life of me why someone who is not related to this topic would come here to give lessons on how to survive an affair... You have no clue. None whatsoever. OK so I have my official BS badge and the scars to prove I belong to club. And my questions is - is there a time, months or years away, when the questions stop being relevant ??? Is your position that Ray should polygraph his "wife" based on proximity to the cheating event or simply that she cheated? And if he feels the need, can he polygraph her about the tattoo recollection decades from now if they're still together? Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
road Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Update: I discussed the polygraph with her. At first she was "insulted" and said it hurt her feelings. She said she would do it though. Then she said go ahead and ask me anything you want and I promise I will tell you the truth, even if I had lied previoulsy over the last 3 months. Without giving all the details, she did admit to lying about a few things. She originally told me she gave him oral once, last night she said it was twice. She had told me that she never verbally said "i love you" to him, only that she texted or emailed it. She admitted that she said it to him at least once in person and a few times on the phone. She had told me she never had an orgasm with him, and she didn't change her story but did say she got close one time. She swears the tatoo was NEVER mentioned. Still find it hard to believe, but I think I believer her. I asked her many many questions and most of the answers were the same, but a few did change. When she asked if I was all done with the questions she said "if you want me to take a lie detector test I will". I have mixed emotions at the moment. Kind of feel like I did 3 months ago on dday. But I think I always knew the answers to some of these questions regardless of what her answers were. How do you ever know for sure if they are being honest?? You can't, you have to take that leap of faith. But how do you take that leap when you have so little trust and faith in them? More trickle truth. WW spills what she hopes to be just enough to get you to back down on doing a poly. Schedule that test. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 More trickle truth. WW spills what she hopes to be just enough to get you to back down on doing a poly. Schedule that test. Do the police really allow you for a fee to use their equipment and examiner to ask your ex-wife if she swallowed or did reverse cowgirl with her affair partner ??? Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
meandmyself Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 OK so I have my official BS badge and the scars to prove I belong to club. And my questions is - is there a time, months or years away, when the questions stop being relevant ??? Is your position that Ray should polygraph his "wife" based on proximity to the cheating event or simply that she cheated? And if he feels the need, can he polygraph her about the tattoo recollection decades from now if they're still together? Mr. Lucky My position is that Ray can do as he wants to get the comfort that he needs.. he is not the one that cheated, I don't feel sorry if his wife has to go to the poly each and every year after this... she is the one who broke the trust foundation of the relationship... if she wants to keep within the relationship she needs to respect the right of Ray to keep suspicious... I think he has the right to ask as much as he needs to get healed and be able to go on... but it is not about what he has to do... he has to do nothing, if he wants to move on, is his call, but if he wants to keep questioning is his call as well and he is totally in his right to do it! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
meandmyself Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 More trickle truth. WW spills what she hopes to be just enough to get you to back down on doing a poly. Schedule that test. I already said that Link to post Share on other sites
meandmyself Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Do the police really allow you for a fee to use their equipment and examiner to ask your ex-wife if she swallowed or did reverse cowgirl with her affair partner ??? Mr. Lucky Yep, you pay for it, so your questions... Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Yep, you pay for it, so your questions... I have a hard time believing this. Have you done so? Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
road Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Realist, is a WS that puts him in the must keep all affair info secret. Realist, can not see that the BS, and only the BS gets to control how much detail the BS learns about the affair. There have been BH's that had their WW confess that they had an affair. All those BH asked was the affair over and are you leaving me. Their WW's responded that the affair was over and no they will not leave them. Then these WW's went bonkers. Worried that their BH's after dday never asked questions about the affair and refused to talk about the affair after hearing their WW's intial confession. To these WW's such behavior was not normal. What these WW's did not realize that they confused an average response with a normal repsonse. Their BH's gave a response that fell into the normal range of responses. Some did not want to know more then the minimal knowledge about the affair. Some BH need to know all about the affair. There is nothing wrong with a BH having to know every thing about the affair. When this kind of BH does not get the information that needs he will never recover. He and WW will stay married. Though they will never move through healing process because the WW will never give the BH the truth that he needs to put the affair behind him. Could the truth that what a WW did with her OM/OM's cause the BH to want a divorce? Yes. The WW getting divorced is the consequence of her actions. Lying after an affair by the WW to keep her BH from divorcing her is wrong. To do so is to cause the BH to live through two lies. The lie that the BH lived through while the affair was on going. Then living through a recovery that is based on continued lies. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Artie Lang Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Ray, the truth is - as in most cases of infidelity - you will never know the WHOLE truth. unless you were there during their rendezvous, you will never have everything. if you truly want to reconcile, your gonna have to let that nagging feeling go. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Steadfast Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 some people need to know and will keep asking till they feel they know enough truth to be comfortable to move on... some people prefer to forget and make like it would have never happened... That's a huge assumption and explains why your argument is full of holes. Saying 'I want to know the truth' rolls off the tongue. But I wonder...do we really seek the truth, or do we seek the words we want to hear? Judge actions, not words. Talk is cheap. Link to post Share on other sites
CantgetoveritNY Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 There is nothing wrong with a BH having to know every thing about the affair. When this kind of BH does not get the information that needs he will never recover. He and WW will stay married. Though they will never move through healing process because the WW will never give the BH the truth that he needs to put the affair behind him. I think a lot of what Ray (and I) want to know, we want to know just to know it. It is not the kind of thing that would change my mind about recompilation, no matter what the answer is. I, and maybe Ray, already have the answers to those big picture questions. Now, I at least, am down to the details that I can't seem to get out of my head. Stuff I feel she owes it to me to tell me about!!! The truth and the whole truth. If she can do all that bad s*it the least she could do is tell me these details! But is it worth alienating her to the point that she can't take it and leaves? I don't know. Maybe it is. Link to post Share on other sites
meandmyself Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I think a lot of what Ray (and I) want to know, we want to know just to know it. It is not the kind of thing that would change my mind about recompilation, no matter what the answer is. I, and maybe Ray, already have the answers to those big picture questions. Now, I at least, am down to the details that I can't seem to get out of my head. Stuff I feel she owes it to me to tell me about!!! The truth and the whole truth. If she can do all that bad s*it the least she could do is tell me these details! But is it worth alienating her to the point that she can't take it and leaves? I don't know. Maybe it is. I am sorry to say CantgetoveritNY that this thread is not about you, or any other person around but about Ray... If you have doubts about what extras would you like to know about your wife A and if you should pursuit that way open your own thread. Link to post Share on other sites
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