Girls Harsher Critics Of The Female Body?

[MrCastle]

MrCastle, I think you have some control issues. You started a thread posing a question. You got a variation of respones. When people didn't agree with you on the premise of your original question, you told them they weren't on topic. Now that you've had your say, which is apparently men are angels when it comes to women's bodies but women are terrible, now you want the thread closed.

 

I am not taking my anger out on you. I'm no even "angry". You are simply belittling my opinion because you can't think of anything to say to it. Neither do you want to acknowledge the ways men harshly debase women with amazing regularity.

 

There were a few people who felt men were worse, they came in, stated their opinion, and moved on. I never even quoted them or debated with them directly. The woman who wanted to instead focus on puas and all the horrors they've brought to humanity was off topic. As far as you and V, you are more than welcome to have your opinions and share them, that's what this community is for. At some point, however, I expected the conversation to move on and not go back and forth with similar talking points for about 4-5 pages now.

 

What you're looking for is for me to come out and say something like "actually, now that I think of it, men are terrible. We really are. Shame on us guys. We should be disappointed in our actions. We are much worse than women, what was I thinking". That simply will not happen. My stance is, I feel when it comes to tearing a woman down with physical criticisms, women are worse--in part, because they know the enemy. They share the same thought process. They know just what to say to bring another woman down. I also believe that they play a bigger role than most women are willing to admit when it comes to expectations and pressures regarding body image.

 

You've presented your thoughts, quite a few pages ago, it is time for that part of the thread to be dropped. How long do you expect to argue the same talking points?

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Well a lot of men who don't agree with it don't buy into it. They also try to educate the women in their lived about the ills of it - to no avail.

 

how don't they buy into it? Do they still use the products sold to them? Or do they refuse to use those products? How do they try to educate the women lives ?

[TheBigQuestion]

He kind of does. He doesn't like that people came in with a different opinion even though his first post was supposedly a question. When people disagreed with him he claimed htey were derailing his thread. Now he wants the thread closed because it didn't go exactly how he wanted.

 

Wrong. Several people said that they believed men were worse, or that it was about equal, or that it wasn't really quantifiable at all. Moving this conversation into the current territory was certainly a colossal thread-derailment. Furthermore, as the OP, MrCastle's view of what is and is not off-topic trumps yours.

[ThaWholigan]

how don't they buy into it? Do they still use the products sold to them? Or do they refuse to use those products? How do they try to educate the women lives ?

What products are you talking about? They don't buy the mags I bought when I was a school kid .

 

They talk to their sisters, daughters, friends and other women about embracing their natural hair, their body type, boundaries etc.

[RogerWallace111]

It's different with ever person, male or female. But I will agree with Mr Castle again, in that I've never heard a guy talk as viciously about any females looks/body as the worst I've heard from the females toward each other. Where a guy, laughing, makes a distasteful, immature joke about a womans weight, or needing a bag over her head during sex, a woman will have an intense look on her face, be nearly popping veins in her neck, and say something like "that stupid f*cking cow with her crooked-ass teeth how could he even touch her ?"

 

And yes, not all men and not all women do this, hopefully most never would, but bottom line, I've never heard a guy talk about a womans looks with half of the anger/disdain I've heard them on occasion express toward eachother.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

There were a few people who felt men were worse, they came in, stated their opinion, and moved on. I never even quoted them or debated with them directly. The woman who wanted to instead focus on puas and all the horrors they've brought to humanity was off topic. As far as you and V, you are more than welcome to have your opinions and share them, that's what this community is for. At some point, however, I expected the conversation to move on and not go back and forth with similar talking points for about 4-5 pages now.

 

What you're looking for is for me to come out and say something like "actually, now that I think of it, men are terrible. We really are. Shame on us guys. We should be disappointed in our actions. We are much worse than women, what was I thinking". That simply will not happen. My stance is, I feel when it comes to tearing a woman down with physical criticisms, women are worse--in part, because they know the enemy. They share the same thought process. They know just what to say to bring another woman down. I also believe that they play a bigger role than most women are willing to admit when it comes to expectations and pressures regarding body image.

 

You've presented your thoughts, quite a few pages ago, it is time for that part of the thread to be dropped. How long do you expect to argue the same talking points?

 

I will argue them as long as you do. You are arguing the same talking points as well. Why is it okay when you do it but not when others do?

 

I am also not looking for you to say anything close to "we are much worse than women". But you are certianly looking to say that women are much worse than men. Again, why is that okay?

[MrCastle]

I will argue them as long as you do. You are arguing the same talking points as well. Why is it okay when you do it but not when others do?

 

I am also not looking for you to say anything close to "we are much worse than women". But you are certianly looking to say that women are much worse than men. Again, why is that okay?

 

Dis, we're done. There have truly been some actual gems from both sides of this argument sprinkled inbetween the bickering and I'm not going to participate in bringing down my own thread.

 

You and I will just have to agree to disagree, and move on.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

It's different with ever person, male or female. But I will agree with Mr Castle again, in that I've never heard a guy talk as viciously about any females looks/body as the worst I've heard from the females toward each other. Where a guy, laughing, makes a distasteful, immature joke about a womans weight, or needing a bag over her head during sex, a woman will have an intense look on her face, be nearly popping veins in her neck, and say something like "that stupid f*cking cow with her crooked-ass teeth how could he even touch her ?"

 

And yes, not all men and not all women do this, hopefully most never would, but bottom line, I've never heard a guy talk about a womans looks with half of the anger/disdain I've heard them on occasion express toward eachother.

 

In what world is making a joke about woman needing a bag over her head better then calling a woman a cow???????????????

 

I really don't get you guys. You believe your insults are "better". This board is riddled with post after post about how this girl is hot and that isn't. Men post pictures around here like it's going out of style to talk about the women they like and odn't like. To an extent that women don't. Men talk about how older women are worthless and fat women are useless. Post after post around here is started BY men about women's bodies. But women are the problem. Right.

 

Well Mr. Castle, how about you start a thread talking about and defaming men that talk like crap about women's bodies? I am still waiting for you to explore the ways men treat women and their bodies and the things men buy into themselves.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

What products are you talking about? They don't buy the mags I bought when I was a school kid .

 

They talk to their sisters, daughters, friends and other women about embracing their natural hair, their body type, boundaries etc.

 

Porn is one product. Music videos, especially rap, Maxim magazine (either online or in mag form)..there are tons of forms of media men use that highligh and exploit negative messages about ideals of the female body.

[ThaWholigan]

OK, so in order for men to put women at ease emotionally and physically, we must boycott all Maxim/FHM type magazines, pornography, music videos and rap music?

[SteveC80]

Its a highly sexaulized world these days youll have to deal with it,good looking guys with abs do commercials these days for women and sexy women do the same youre average joe and plain jane arent gonna be used in these ads

 

AS i said stop comlaining that youre not every mans dream or ideal and be happy that your one guys ideal or dream thats all you need

[Disenchantedly Yours]

OK, so in order for men to put women at ease emotionally and physically, we must boycott all Maxim/FHM type magazines, pornography, music videos and rap music?

 

Maybe not to "put women at ease" but to discredit media that sends negative messages about women's bodies. ..Why not?

 

If men know and understand that media in general is harsh on women, if men don't want to contribute to that, why not deny the media that centers around it? I would suggest women do the same. Not buy the magazines, not buy into the fashion industry's body expectations.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Its a highly sexaulized world these days youll have to deal with it,good looking guys with abs do commercials these days for women and sexy women do the same youre average joe and plain jane arent gonna be used in these ads

 

AS i said stop comlaining that youre not every mans dream or ideal and be happy that your one guys ideal or dream thats all you need

 

But apparently you aren't even one guy's ideal or dream because even the guy that is with you is looking at other women who are probably much closer to what he really likes.

[ThaWholigan]

Maybe not to "put women at ease" but to discredit media that sends negative messages about women's bodies. ..Why not?

 

If men know and understand that media in general is harsh on women, if men don't want to contribute to that, why not deny the media that centers around it? I would suggest women do the same. Not buy the magazines, not buy into the fashion industry's body expectations.

Well I actually AM a rapper so I won't be boycotting that at any point - maybe when I'm old .

 

Either way, you're basically saying that all forms of media discredit women and men should completely avoid it. I understand where you're coming from now.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Well I actually AM a rapper so I won't be boycotting that at any point - maybe when I'm old .

 

Either way, you're basically saying that all forms of media discredit women and men should completely avoid it. I understand where you're coming from now.

 

I think that it's silly to give money, time and attention to media that disparages men or women. When I see stuff that I think is degrading to men, I don't support it. Which means I don't watch it, buy it, or talk about it other then to point out how f*cked up it was to treat or portray men in that way. as things are now, I don't think a lot of men are prepared to do the same for me or other women.

[threebyfate]

That's quite an assumption on your part based on virtually no facts at all. Just by looking at those thumbnails, and my knowledge of some of the women in question, a lot of them are known for their bust sizes or hip sizes. Which then would confirm the belief that most men prefer women with curves. I see few, if any on that list of 100 that I would consider "underweight" or unhealthy by any means.

 

For fun, I looked up the top ten on Maxim's list. Here are their BMIs where healthy and normal weight spans BMIs of 18.5 - 24.9:

 

1. 18.5
   
2. 19.6
   
3. 19.7
   
4. 18.2
   
5. 19
   
6. 18.6
   
7. 17.4
   
8. 18.4
   
9. 19.3
   
10. 18.1
    

 

40% of these women are underweight and none of them exceed 19.7 in BMI. So yeah, women judge other women more harshly than men do. Mmhmmm...what's wrong with this picture?

 

Is it the fact that Maxim's list of hot women doesn't refute the OP's point that women judge women worse than men?

 

In any case, MrCastle, the answer is true: women are harsher judges of women than men. Like I said before, why are there fewer all-female groups than all-male groups? It's because women are catty and jealous. That's why women are more interested in joining male organizations than starting all-female groups. Heck, even verzhn herself has said she's tried harder to join all-male video game groups and not tried to start all-female video game groups.

 

The fact that MAXIM of all magazines would pick a list like this doesn't really say anything about the degree of harshness with which men judge women's bodies. Unless it is your belief that admiring certain body types or proportions has the simultaneous and automatic effect of harshly judging women. If that's the case, fair enough, but this thread is about which gender is more disparaging towards women. If this was a list of the "100 Ugliest, Most of Out of Shape, Cellulite-Ridden Women on God's Green Earth," I don't think I'd disagree with you one bit.

 

This doesn't even take into account that this list is not the be all and end all of what men find attractive.

Umm...funny how both of you totally ignored Castle's perception of healthy, where 40% of the top ten women are underweight and the balance 60% on the very low end of healthy BMI.

 

If men idealize women who are underweight and skinny, what does this say about men?

[ThaWholigan]

I think that it's silly to give money, time and attention to media that disparages men or women. When I see stuff that I think is degrading to men, I don't support it. Which means I don't watch it, buy it, or talk about it other then to point out how f*cked up it was to treat or portray men in that way. as things are now, I don't think a lot of men are prepared to do the same for me or other women.

 

Fair enough.

 

As I have said, I don't support anything that I feel is degrading in terms of individual products - that doesn't mean I will boycott the entire thing, that would be an exercise in futility. The best I can do is educate people against the negatives, which I do.

[Lonely Ronin]

I think that it's silly to give money, time and attention to media that disparages men or women. When I see stuff that I think is degrading to men, I don't support it. Which means I don't watch it, buy it, or talk about it other then to point out how f*cked up it was to treat or portray men in that way. as things are now, I don't think a lot of men are prepared to do the same for me or other women.

 

You do realize that not all rap is(derogatory word of choice) on women right?

[ThaWholigan]

Umm...funny how both of you totally ignored Castle's perception of healthy, where 40% of the top ten women are underweight and the balance 60% on the very low end of healthy BMI.

 

If men idealize women who are underweight and skinny, what does this say about men?

You assume that Maxim's top 10 represents the ideal top 10 of the majority of men. I would disagree.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

You do realize that not all rap is(derogatory word of choice) on women right?

 

Yes actually, I agree with that. It was a very general reference. I appreciate you pointing it out though.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

You assume that Maxim's top 10 represents the ideal top 10 of the majority of men. I would disagree.

 

Then who does it represent the top 10 ideal for? Who is Maxim made for? Maybe that's also made for women. Because women love cataloging other women in top 100 lists wearing tiny little barely there outfits.

[SteveC80]

But apparently you aren't even one guy's ideal or dream because even the guy that is with you is looking at other women who are probably much closer to what he really likes.

 

Ehh people are pretty flexible,everyone likes really hot people doesnt mean average people cant and dont find love

 

Your short guy isnt gonna be any womens ideal yet hell fidn somebody,your plain women wont be most guys ideals but will find love as well

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Fair enough.

 

As I have said, I don't support anything that I feel is degrading in terms of individual products - that doesn't mean I will boycott the entire thing, that would be an exercise in futility. The best I can do is educate people against the negatives, which I do.

 

Educate people about the negatives while still using and promoting products that support negatives......... Like I said, I don't think men are prepared to reject media that gives bad ideas about women because men gain too much pleasure from I. However, I do my best to be equal about the kind of media that wrongly represents men.

[ThaWholigan]

Then who does it represent the top 10 ideal for? Who is Maxim made for? Maybe that's also made for women. Because women love cataloging other women in top 100 lists wearing tiny little barely there outfits.

Not the "majority".

[TheBigQuestion]

Umm...funny how both of you totally ignored Castle's perception of healthy, where 40% of the top ten women are underweight and the balance 60% on the very low end of healthy BMI.

 

If men idealize women who are underweight and skinny, what does this say about men?

 

In and of itself, that list says nothing about men. Some women are naturally very thin and a whole lot of them happen to be in Hollywood. Additionally, why only use BMI? If I packed on 15 pounds of muscle, I would be borderline obese for my height despite having only 13% body fat. Why are you relying on such a famously inadequate standard?

 

Again, what you're saying really contradicts nothing asserted by anyone here, UNLESS you commit to the view that a magazine's list of the hottest women (1) is representative of what most or all men believe, and (2) is equivalent to, or entails, the verbal tearing-down of women as described in the OP.