soserious1 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 If I am labeled a woman-hater simply for participating in a discussion forum in support of a man who questions the continued validity of marriage, then your ACTIONS and ATTITUDES, in real life, certainly support that characterization of you. hey, fine I'll accept the label of "bitter man hater":laugh: happy now? Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 So we are supposed to feel sympathy for a woman who pays big alimony, and we are supposed to feel sympathy for a woman who does not get big alimony. Please tell me when we are supposed to feel any sympathy for divorced men, if ever, in your viewpoint. There is a difference between alimony and child support. I feel sympathy for a man who pays alimony to a woman who treated him poorly (as soserious's husband treated her poorly). I do not usually feel sympathy for men or women paying child support. Get equal custody (courts usually push for 50/50 these days), or pay to support your kids. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
frozensprouts Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I am getting confused (what else is new:laugh:)... right now, it seems to me that woggle et.al. maybe don't hate women, rather they feel there is alrge imbalance between men and women today, and they don't lie it. They feel that rather than women now being equal, the scales have tipped and now women are "more equal than men ( of course, I could be way off). I think both men and women have it really hard today... how is one supposed to act? what would be ideal? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 So let me get this straight: We are supposed to share your anger at your "scum" husband--and feel sorry for you-- because he lawfully got a court of law to grant him a huge alimony award payable from you--in other words he's just done what countless women have done to countless men in the past, and continue to do, which is simply use the system to their best advantage. But we are supposed to feel sorry for divorced women who are NOT getting "big money alimony", presumably also because the court did not think it warranted in those women's cases? So we are supposed to feel sympathy for a woman who pays big alimony, and we are supposed to feel sympathy for a woman who does not get big alimony. Please tell me when we are supposed to feel any sympathy for divorced men, if ever, in your viewpoint. I didn't ask you or anybody else for "sympathy" I pay my alimony in full & on time every month. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
frozensprouts Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I don't lie to prospective sex partners about my intentions or about my attitudes about relationships, I deliberately seek out partners who also desire to avoid any sort of committed relationship. I hurt nobody by engaging in consensual activities with like minded adults well, at least you are being honest and upfront . You are not visiting your feelings onto the heads of others. As long as they know what they are getting into, and you are both single consenting adults , why is this a problem? Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 No because your mockery of the concept and "smiley face" indicates you're undercutting the supposed "acceptance of the label" with sarcasm/irony. So it's a hypocritical/snarky statement on your part, and not genuine. In other words you're being dishonest because you don't really accept the label. I pay my alimony on time and in full, I pay all of my own bills including 100% of my dating/casual sex expenses. I don't lie to or lead prospective partners on as to my intentions or feelings. I'm not required to desire to be married or in a committed relationship in order to prove anything to you or anybody else. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Woggle Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 I am getting confused (what else is new:laugh:)... right now, it seems to me that woggle et.al. maybe don't hate women, rather they feel there is alrge imbalance between men and women today, and they don't lie it. They feel that rather than women now being equal, the scales have tipped and now women are "more equal than men ( of course, I could be way off). I think both men and women have it really hard today... how is one supposed to act? what would be ideal? I don't hate women at all. I don't condone violence, abuse or even cheating and I have no wish to make women second class citizens. I am even 100% pro choice but I speak my mind about the reality of gender relations today. The fact of the matter is that I want my only good relationship to be a success but I don't want to be one of those men who gets the rug pulled from underneath without warning. Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Except for the fact that even when men make it very clear to a woman that they don't want a commitment, it's just sexual, it's not serious, if she hangs around and starts to get feelings for him, and the man lets her do that--even though he has verbalized the notion of "no commitment"--that is when he will be accused of "misogyny." Because according to this point of view, when a man "lets" a woman fall in love with him, he's taking advantage of her. This happens ALL THE TIME where a woman claims to be an f-buddy or FWB with a guy and then darn it she decides she wants a commitment or becomes attached to him anyway. No matter how "honest" the guy is about his intentions he gets hit with the blame by women, for being a "player" who took advantage of her "feelings." Unlike yourself, most women who claim to be OK with casual sex are just trying to use it to get the man "interested" enough hoping it will evolve into a more committed relationship. There is even another thread up at love shack right now from a young woman who has been clearly told by her bf that he "NEVER" wants to get married to him. But she's ignoring what he has clearly stated. It's as plain as day. Honesty is not really the issue, is it? People develop feelings for each other all the time if they have sex, and just because we tell each other it's meaningless doesn't mean one or both of us won't fall in love. Except when the man tells the woman with honesty and she doesn't want to believe it, women will find a way to make him the bad guy--somehow he led her to believe that he didn't really mean what he was saying. Just like the young woman who posted the other thread for whatever reason doesn't believe the plain meaning of her bf's words even though he bluntly told her he NEVER wants to get married. When you can explain that sort of female reasoning, I will be more than happy to listen to it. Whoa! I've come down hard on women who post here about how they got into a FWB situation & then accuse the guy of using them because she developed feelings that he didn't return. I've always been very clear on this point, if you get into a no strings relationship, that's exactly what it means... no strings & no sniveling later on. "No" doesn't mean "maybe" and women who pull that crap deserve all the scron that can comes their way. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Except for the fact that even when men make it very clear to a woman that they don't want a commitment, it's just sexual, it's not serious, if she hangs around and starts to get feelings for him, and the man lets her do that--even though he has verbalized the notion of "no commitment"--that is when he will be accused of "misogyny." Because according to this point of view, when a man "lets" a woman fall in love with him, he's taking advantage of her. This happens ALL THE TIME where a woman claims to be an f-buddy or FWB with a guy and then darn it she decides she wants a commitment or becomes attached to him anyway. No matter how "honest" the guy is about his intentions he gets hit with the blame by women, for being a "player" who took advantage of her "feelings." Unlike yourself, most women who claim to be OK with casual sex are just trying to use it to get the man "interested" enough hoping it will evolve into a more committed relationship. There is even another thread up at love shack right now from a young woman who has been clearly told by her bf that he "NEVER" wants to get married to him. But she's ignoring what he has clearly stated. It's as plain as day. Honesty is not really the issue, is it? People develop feelings for each other all the time if they have sex, and just because we tell each other it's meaningless doesn't mean one or both of us won't fall in love. Except when the man tells the woman with honesty and she doesn't want to believe it, women will find a way to make him the bad guy--somehow he led her to believe that he didn't really mean what he was saying. Just like the young woman who posted the other thread for whatever reason doesn't believe the plain meaning of her bf's words even though he bluntly told her he NEVER wants to get married. When you can explain that sort of female reasoning, I will be more than happy to listen to it. What does this have to do with misogyny??? If he's being honest with her, and she's hoping she can change him, that's on her. Nobody is going to accuse him of misogyny. That's silly. Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 How does this address the point I made, and that you quoted, in which I pointed out that your supposed "acceptance" of the misandrist label was totally insincere on your part? yes, my response was totally insincere Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 What does this have to do with misogyny??? If he's being honest with her, and she's hoping she can change him, that's on her. Nobody is going to accuse him of misogyny. That's silly. Um, yeah. Same as when I made it clear to my FWB that I wasn't interested in a R, he said he didn't want one either, then started using the 'L' word. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 If someone who is treated poorly is nevertheless forced to pay alimony to the extent it generates sympathy for the paying spouse as an inherently unjust result, then that simply points to the validity of Woggle's concerns. If one man, somewhere, gets screwed in divorce, it validates Woggle's level of fear? I disagree. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 That's fine but you keep ignoring the point that you are the exception not the rule, for the most part. If you have criticized women for taking this attitude and you have had to do it time and again it is simply because their attitudes are the norm among many many women. This was exactly my point. Were it not the norm, you would not have had the experience of having to criticize such women repeatedly. But you claim we would blame the guy. Not so. The truth is the truth. Anyone who tries to twist things around is behaving in an infantile manner. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 This is almost as good as a Saturday night death match. Where are the sunchips? 3 Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 It's not silly at all. In this very thread men who have supported Woggle have been blatantly accused of being "women haters coming out of the woodwork" simply for lending support to his viewpoint. Women are too ready to throw out the misogyny label simply as an expression of their own misandry. And PLENTY of women will "support" such a woman who is engaging in such wishful thinking by accusing the man of "leading her on." Do you know what "leading someone on" means? It means you are being LITERALLY HONEST in your words but giving misleading "hints" or behaving in misleading ways so as to draw the other person in--whether intentionally (a player) or unintentionally (just a dummy). I gave a concrete ACTUAL example of an ongoing thread where a woman refuses to believe the literal words of her bf that he never wants to get married. SHE SIMPLY REFUSES TO BELIEVE IT. And anyone who is capable of doing that, is easily capable of finding a way to blame things on the man. "He led me on for six years. Why did he let me move in with him if he knew he would never marry me?" and so on Wait a second here, at no time I have I stated that the men participating in this thread are "women haters coming out of the woodwork" or anything even remotely in that vein. As to the other thread, I haven't seen yet but if it is as you've described I'll give her a blistering earful. Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 The sheer hypocrisy is astounding, isn't it? The guy who lays his heart on the line for his new woman and risks getting married DESPITE his fears is the "misogynist." Meanwhile the bitter woman who hates her "scum" ex because he gouged her for a lot of money in divorce court, and who is so damaged that she can't even contemplate a healthy emotional relationship with another man in the future--why, you go girl. Woggle's wife nor his therapist have any idea as to the extent that his fears have invaded his daily life, they've been married around 5 years, that's not exactly a 'new love" And yes, I do intend to "go girl" and live my life as a single person without the responsibilities & obligations imposed by a committed relationship. Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Right here is where she said it. Blister away, Sister. what page is that quote on? the forum gives me an error message when i try to click n the arrow in the quote. thanks for your help Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 The truth is the truth? OK. In that case, soserious must be twisting things all around about her situation, because her husband was lawfully awarded alimony, and just because he enforced his legal rights doesn't make him "scum." Furthermore, even if he is "scum," that doesn't make all other men "scum," and it doesn't mean it's healthy for soserious to engage in an endless stream of meaningless sexual flings. Yet, in this thread, the guy who got remarried despite his profound fears--the truly BRAVE guy, Woggle--gets REPEATEDLY bashed by women, including YOURSELF, as a misogynist--and it sounds like this happens on a lot of other threads here too--yet a true misandrist, so serious, is bullet proof. I am very grateful for your profound commitment to the truth. Please continue. First, SS' ex is an anus completely exclusive of what happened in court. Second, I may take issue with Woggle insulting MOST of the wonderful women I know, but I have also said many nice things about him and tried to encourage him when he isn't posting hateful things. I am pretty sure he will agree. Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Do you not recognize that your criticism of Woggle's marriage and your own approach to relationships fully supports the point Woggle is making about marriage in this thread? This thread wasn't posted by Woggle to give women an opportunity to bash him for what they perceive to be his personal deficiencies as a husband. It was to discuss the institution of marriage and why it is risky. Nothing you have said in this thread indicates that Woggle's fears are unfounded. I intently dislike marriage & make no bones about the fact that I think it's a fool's move to get married be you male or female. My issue with Woggle is this.. He chose to get married again, he's admitted that he spends a considerable amount of time searching the web looking for 'proof" that all women secretly hate their husbands. Woggle has also admitted that his wife has no clue as to the extent of his paranoia nor does the therapist he's paying for help. I've suggested to Woggle more than once in a fairly nice way that since he decided to marry again that he owes it to his wife to level with her and that starts by being honest with his therapist.. I am "damaged" & I avoid relationships because frankly I don't want to do the work on MYSELF needed to fully love or trust anybody, the effort doesn't feel worthwhile to me. Knowing this about myself, it would be bogus of me to get into any sort of relationship with anybody.. so I don't Woggle on the other hand, has chosen to commit & imho having done so, he owes it to his wife to make every effort to heal his damage & that starts with honestly disclosing the full extent of that damage. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Woggle has said he is worried his attitude may become a problem between he and his wife one day. I have seen the posts but just don't care to search for them. I am sure he will answer honestly if asked. He may have some twisted points of view IMO, but I believe him to be a very honest guy. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 So "women in general" somehow magically excludes all the women I know? Wow! I never knew I held so much power! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Woggle Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 I will agree that Donna has been supportive but I think many just don't understand where me and other men are coming from. They think it's hatred when we just tell it like it is. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 So "women in general" somehow magically excludes all the women I know? Wow! I never knew I held so much power! :lmao:............ 1 Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Work it up to a lather Clark bar! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Wow.......... Link to post Share on other sites
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