should I win her back?

[Steadfast]

...anyways, OMW sent me a message on facebook saying to leave her and her family alone, not to contact her, that she knows everything and to take care of her marriage; why is this woman not wanting to talk to me?

 

Because she knows you don't really care about her. She's just another tool to be used in your attempts to...well, whatever it is you're doing. Admit it: you'd be more than happy to see her marriage fail. She doesn't want that.

 

You say you've been abusive in the past but you're working on it. Great. Is it OK if everyone else has a chance to catch up? See, really changing for the better includes allowing people to be skeptical. Accept it.

 

IMO. continuing to spy, push and manipulate the situation will just bring more of the same. You stepped off the high road. Welcome to the party.

[Chi townD]

Well, your wife is extremely foggy. That is normal and to be expected. I new that that OMW wouldn't be mad at you for too long. That sometimes, is a normal reaction from a OMW too. To get the news from you is difficult to hear and you are the one that brought this pain to her. It was a shock to her system and had to lash out somewhere....but, after the dust settles, they start to think rationally and realize that you're a victim in this too.

 

Like I said in earlier posts...you know where you screwed up in this marriage. Own it and fix it. Seek counsiling, go find out why you can be emotionally abusive. Fix yourself, get a new haircut, start working out at the gym a lot, work out those frustrations there. and I would start doing the 180 on yourself and sooner or later...your wife is going to notice the changes in you.

[c0nfuzd]

I have a feeling that I am not chatting with OMW on facebook; something smells rotten; we were chatting back and forth and the replies were quick (like every 2-3 minutes); then I was asked specifics on a question to which I said that she needs to talk to me in person; haven't had a reply in over 40 minutes

and just this morning W kept asking me if I am still trying to contact OMW and give her all the details to their A....sounds to me like OM knows the password to his W's account

you're right Steadfast, what is the point to all this spying and manipulation? until she is done with him, this is all pointless and I should just move on and file for D....gotta work up the guts to do it

[2long]

Highly likely you were "talking" 2 the OM. So, in all probability, she doesn't even know about the affair?

 

You should contact her in person. Or, expose 2 their workplace.

 

This affair isn't over. They're just getting more clever because they know you're snooping.

 

-ol' 2long

[c0nfuzd]

I've talked to her over the phone so she definitely knows

[Owl]

OK...so I'm kinda with the rest of the folks here.

 

It looks/sounds to me like you don't want to divorce...you're still wanting to reconcile the marriage, if possible.

 

OK...that I understand.

 

Given that...there are steps you need to take, and some learning you need to go through.

 

Go over to the marriagebuilders website, take a look at their free material...but I do NOT recommend the forums.

 

Specifically, read up on plan A, plan B, withdrawl, and emotional needs.

 

You need to engage in a STRONG plan A.

 

You need to INSIST that she end the affair. Break off any and all contact, give you complete and total access to all of her methods of communication.

 

Bottom line...you need to INSIST that she make a choice...today, RIGHT NOW...either she works on the marriage, or she files for divorce. And she needs to realize that if she chooses divorce...that means she loses you in any shape, fashion or form...forever.

 

Make it clear that you're willing to work on you, you're willing to make changes to improve yourself and your marriage...start on those changes now, before she chooses in fact.

 

But...also make it clear that you will NOT accept any kind of contact with OM, ever again. PERIOD. She tells him it's over...in front of you, and in front of his wife. (NC letter). And you need to insist that she PROVE this to you by giving you complete and total access to her emails/facebook/cellphone/etc...without deleting anything.

 

If she refuses...she leaves. If she agrees...then you also insist on marriage counseling to help the two of you work through all of the damage that's occurred.

 

Don't be a doormat. Don't be afraid to INSIST on what you need.

 

Here's a secret...women cannot remain in love with a man that they don't respect. And a woman cannot respect a man that she can treat like a doormat.

 

Give that some thought.

 

Decide on what your goal is...right now. Develop a plan to reach your goal...then implement your plan.

 

Starting NOW.

[c0nfuzd]

there are 2 problems in my W's head....one, the emotional abuse I put her thru for years......two, the fact she still loves OM even though she knows it was wrong....in her own defense, the A was wrong because OM is married and her boss, but not because she was still married to me; she had checked out unofficially out of our M....

if I go ahead and use Plan A or Plan B, I am not addressing the emotional abuse issue and simply going after her A, which she insists is dead, at least as far as anything between them; she does admit she still has feelings for him and hopes they will fade away with time; she understands why she has to quit her job but doesn't want to (at least for 1 year) because she fears she will be jobless for some time or will make a step backwards in her career; I've already explained that she brought this upon herself and she understands it but still doesn't want to quit

so giving her an ultimatum for her A does not satisfy our other problem in the M...she said she wanted space and time to figure out if she wants to make our M work now that the A is done; she added that she would put all the effort into saving our M if she decided to fix it....in a way she still has the power at this point because of what happened between us before the A

I don't see any communication at all between them on the computer, which is not to say they are not using strictly their phones; maybe I will push for the passwords on computer and phone to see what she does; I mentioned it a couple of times, but to date she has not given me either

as you can see, I don't want to be too aggressive because there is more than just infidelity we are dealing with

so the plan for the time being will be to give her the space she needs to think about it; this means not bringing up the A, but I will ask for passwords tonight; all the while I will remain in the house and sleep in our bed (just this morning she said she was still not ready to sleep upstairs; this sounds like soon she may return to our bed, hoping)

then I am hoping in about 2 months to revisit all this and hopefully she will have a decision as to being ready to work on M; we can then look at MC

[Owl]

Confused, I've got to tell you that I don't believe that your "plan" high odds of success.

 

Anytime that you're giving the WS "space"...it normally does nothing to resolve the affair or conflict in her head/heart.

 

I speak from experience.

 

But...I wish you the best of luck. I hope to hear that this plan works out for you.

[c0nfuzd]

what choice do I really have? I no longer have proof that she is still engaged in the A...simply that she still has feelings for him; I am hoping the phone password will clear this up but I don't have it yet....the emotional abuse is the sticking point for her; can she get past it? if yes, then we can work on our M....being home does not help as she feels more pressure from me simply being around, but I choose to stay home in case she tries to pull a fast one on me come divorce trial

[Owl]

If you've got some relative confidence that she's no longer engaged in the affair...marriage counseling seems like a good bet.

 

It helped my wife and I tremendously. And we started it right about the point you're at now...her EA was over/ending, but she was still clinging to her feelings for OM.

 

Having a safe place to discuss things...and an impartial 3rd party who can help you work through things when they get heated...can help out a lot.

[Chi townD]

^^^^^^^totally agree!!!^^^^^^^^^

[c0nfuzd]

I feel a little more confident that she is done with him, but I am not completely convinced until I have access to her phone; so I will work on that over the next few days......right now I see that she is looking at other jobs just like she said she would last night.....so maybe it is sinking in that the A is just wrong, no matter which way she looks at it

I will pitch the MC next week; give her a few days of quietness since it seems every night for past 2 weeks we've been going at it (about her A)

[2long]

I also agree that marriage counseling is in order at this time.

 

You're not going 2 get her 2 agree 2 separate the issues around the affair from other issues in your marriage. She has 2 come 2 the realization herself that the affair and hanging on2 the OM in any way is not good for HER before she can truly recognize and stop doing the things she's doing 2 YOU.

 

So, by all means find a counselor.

 

But also quit talking about your relationship. She can't communicate rationally with you and you can't separate your emotional reaction 2 her behavior from what you know is right.

 

Forget about making a big deal out of when or if she decides 2 sleep in your bed with you. She does it or doesn't - again based on her own decisions.

 

Take care of yourself, because you can't take care of your marriage if you're a basket case. It's like this metaphor I used after d-day. We had a major house fire a month after 911, and then I discovered her affair 3 months later. Once, when my W tried 2 feed me crumbs but stay in contact with RM while she decided whether she wanted 2 work on our marriage, I said "So, if the house were on fire, you'd advocate rebuilding it before putting the fire out?" Pissed her off. But it was what she was proposing. And it's what you're wife is proposing.

 

-ol' 2long

[ShatteredReality]

Hey there Confused, so all last week I spent the majority of my time busting through my work and leaving early to visit my sister and new niece at the hospital. In addition my parents are in town and, of course, I have a family who has been amazingly understanding given the level of neglect and frozen food/take out they've had forced upon them! So...looks like you've had quite a bit happen - I skimmed over most of it cause it is like a billion pages of what's been going on. I mostly read what you wrote and a jot here or there others said - so forgive if I step on toes or re-advise you like anyone else.

 

I will tell you this - When I had my A and my H came on here for advice - Owl helped him greatly. He had a balanced view to advise H on how to work through his emotions and head toward the goal at hand - he didn't just tell him to toss in the towel unless it was what he wanted. Since it wasn't, he advised him in the other direction.

 

Steadfast has a wealth of great advice as well. He, too, is balanced - but in a different way. His experience was far different from Owl and therefore so is his approach. But it's all very logical. And reasonable.

 

I have a great deal of respect for both of them in this area of expertise.

 

I guess there's something I believe you need to keep in mind right now - in your M you are the only one CAPABLE of true logic right now.

 

Who is your favorite family member or friend?? Besides your W. And excluding your kids. Think about it - choose someone who you feel is very important to you...then imagine they jog off to Europe leaving you nothing more than a note saying "Hey, thanks for the fun times, ciao". Wouldn't you be hurt? What if you had talked about going together...and they left without warning and without you? You REALLY care for them and this is their response?? Ciao???? Bailing - and you're too close to the situation to see why they left or how even. OM just did that to your W. She doesn't know up from down, left from right....she can't find her own brain in the muck she's caused up there. She caused it...but she can't even see that! If she can't even see what she's done to herself, how can she possibly see anything you have done for her? Nor can she honestly see what she's done to you. Not yet. She's still lost in a land where OM was a caring, loving person. Even if she tells you she believes differently now, it's likely not true.

 

Let me be clear...I lied about my feelings for OM to my H for nearly a year after the fact. I lied for many reasons - I couldn't face myself for feeling how I felt about him, I couldn't bear the thought of H knowing how black my soul truly had gotten at that time. The further I was from it, the worse I felt over having been so easily swindled. Now, more than three years out, I can easily see how he played me. But even with that it sometimes hurts if I allow myself to think about how it all played out. Truth be told...I allowed myself to fall for him...hard. If I hadn't been married he would have just joined the ranks of any ex relationship story any other girl could tell, but because of the sheer devastation that relationship caused - all of it was amplified. I loved him - I can admit that now - But I hated myself, I hated what we were doing, I hated everything surrounding that love and so it wasn't a love I can look back on and have fond memories of - it's a vile, filthy, distasteful time of my life. I spent those few months being the very worst part of myself that I could be. I was not "worthy" of forgiveness, redemption, or mercy. But, honestly, who is worthy of any of those things at the time they're given them? It's not until after the fact that they can prove they appreciated the opportunities given or took them for granted.

 

So I guess my point is this - decide what you want. Then work towards that goal. Figure out what the worst possible outcome is and decide if you can live with that outcome. Hope for the best but know you might wind up with the worst. You contributed to the demise of the M as it was - she took a butchers knife to whatever was left...so any M you have now is going to have to be built new. There is a mourning period for what was - and she will have a roller coaster ride ahead of her while she detaches from OM and figures herself out again. She will not even begin to know how she truly feels about you for at least a month. You need to decide if you can live with that or not. It took me a good two or three months to figure out how I felt...to decide that I was going to stop living with one foot out the door of my marriage. On a scale of 1-10 I was a 4 in my commitment to making it work...what is your wife?? The therapist said if I was anything above a 0 we had a chance - she didn't tell me until after I said 4 though...on the heels of my H saying 6....so honestly I was probably at a 3 but didn't feel like I could cut his number in half without making him cry. Again.

 

My H didn't give me much "space" either. I wanted it...begged for it...threatened to take off and just take the space I felt I needed...I did stay away for awhile, but that was all before I decided to stay in the M and give it a shot. Once I agreed to at least try to reconcile, I came home and stayed there. I resented the lack of privacy, having to report in when I got to the grocery store, when I left, when I got to work, when I took my breaks, when I left work for home - etc. I felt like a 5 year old. But in some ways I kinda was. I handed over the passwords for my e-mail and Facebook accounts...my phone was always left out where he could access it if he chose to...and sometimes he did. I never knew when he was going to look at it. To my knowledge he used the online billing to enter in names to match numbers so he could see who I was calling and texting. He didn't use a logger that I am aware of, but it wouldn't have done him any good. You see, my affair happened twice - I broke it off, confessed, then a month later I couldn't live with the hell and ran back into his pressuring and open arms. He never stopped pursuing me until my H came to my work, took him aside, and told threatened him. Something like what you did to OM. My H never did contact OMW though, he didn't think it would really do any good so he left well enough alone. Actually, I heard an unwanted update from an old coworker about OM a couple months ago. He left his W for his long time best friend (who was a woman) and they were planning to get married sometime this month. His wife wound up in a mental institution over the ordeal, his oldest child dropped out of college to take care of her, his younger child's grades have been on a steady decline in highschool, and most folks at work have lost all respect for him. Oh, and girlfriend? She won't let him even speak with other women. Gotta give her credit for knowing what she's getting herself into...and gotta say oh well - it's her bed, let her lie in it. I always had thought she was a little "too" caring about him...but oh well right? Just glad it's not me.

 

You have my sympathies...no matter which way you cut this you have a long and arduous road ahead of you. Your wife won't even begin to become herself again until she's over him...and I think that can take a different amount of time per each person. The marriagebuilders site has a lot of good articles on it...Affair proofing your marriage is a good book, so is For His Eyes Only and For Her Eyes Only....H went hogwild on his research on the topic, bought books and read articles. The only forum he participated on was this one.

 

But, as I said before, don't make any rash decisions. Sit down and make plans, and contingency plans...but don't make any solid decisions that you will later look back on with regret. Think it all through...make lists of pros and cons and then the next day look at the list again and see if you have anything to add or take away from it...

 

Oh, and also - one thing that helped me keep a connection with my H is that we remained sexually involved. Now, when he wasn't sure if he was staying with me or going we did not - but once he decided to reconcile we did.

 

And, I know it has to have been said...go to marriage counselling. At least a few sessions...to be in a setting with an unbiased third party who can give you guidelines on communication. We have code words now, and "looks" and various different methods of communication - and when we remember to use them, they're very effective.

[turnera]

Your Plan A will make up for your past drug use. If she allows it. But that's all you can ever do anyway, right?

 

Fix yourself cos it's the right thing to do. If she comes along, fine. If not, you're still making a better life for yourself.

[robf1971]

she still loves OM even though she knows it was wrong

 

Confuzd, IMO she's gotta go, pack her stuff up. If she's told you this that she still loves him. Tell her you will move her in with OM let her have what she wants so badly.

 

If she REALLY wanted back with you she would be walking over broken glass to do it and would hand over immediately. She's not even showing any remorse.

 

Regardless of what she does, fix yourself!!

[c0nfuzd]

for the first time last night, I felt that it's really over between the 2....at least for now; apparently the reason she is looking for another job now is because her boss/OM told her that one of them has to go from the company; whomever finds alternative employment first

 

it's clear she's peed off for me breaking up A; she antagonized me last night and goaded me into arguing with her about how I don't allow her into our bed; so full of crap she is; now she even tells the kids that it's me that won't let her sleep upstairs; told her again she is always welcome despite what she did; feels like we are going in circles with these arguments and I am simply fed up; so I told myself this is the last time I talk about our relationship with her; the next time will be when and if we go to MC; I followed thru this morning by not discussing it when she started crying for no reason (sure she was trying to start something again) and just walked away from her

 

I've also decided to leave OMW alone; no more trying to reach out to her; what's the point? if W wants to be with OM, let her....I am done running after W....if she wants to make this M work, she knows what to do; and if she wants D, she can start the process by going to her lawyer

 

SR, I believe it is how my wife honestly feels at this point; your story hits every nail on the head; what a mess W is in; thanks for giving me the opportunity to read into her mind; I am pretty sure it's accurate as she exhibits all the symptoms you've mentioned

[c0nfuzd]

is there a point in informing her friends about A? I am pretty sure she has not told them based on the emails I've read; she paints herself as the only victim in all this

[stillafool]

No point at this time in telling the friends about the affair.

 

The reason she is looking for another job is it is highly painful for her seeing the OM at work. I'm sure the affair is over as well because OM has come to his senses. As I told you he is not willing to lose everything, anything, because of your wife. She has been slammed in the face by his actual feelings for her and now she has come to the reality that he was just using her for extra sex and an ego boost. He knows his wife is on "high alert" and he is not going to let her down. You see he really loves his wife and unlike your wife is willing to do the work to keep his marriage and job in tact. The other reason she is actually looking for another job is because OM wants her out of there and I will bet you he barely glances at your wife anymore. She is suffering because she just can't believe it.

 

As far as your past drug use and emotional abuse this also can be addressed at MC. You've stopped all of this now haven't you? What you did is not an excuse for her cheating. That is the ultimate sin in marriage. Oh, and by all means do what Owl says - full disclosure. She owes you that at this point.

Edited February 1, 2012 by stillafool

[Steadfast]

is there a point in informing her friends about A? I am pretty sure she has not told them based on the emails I've read; she paints herself as the only victim in all this

 

Why not take out an ad in the NY Times and save yourself some time?

 

Before you act on anything, ask yourself what the motivation is. Do you think her friends will talk sense into her? IMO, that's a rarity. Will they pressure her or threaten to end the friendship if she doesn't repair her marriage? One more time: exposing and manipulating the situation might stir things up, but it isn't going to change her feelings.

 

Despite her very obvious shortcomings, your wife has a God-given freewill. Unless she chooses to love you and only you and embraces that with all of her heart, you have nothing. Ask yourself what the quality of life will be even if your manipulation is successful? What is the basis of your relationship then? She's spinning, and you're greasing it up to go faster.

 

Why don't you let her choose, and give yourself the opportunity to do the same?

 

If it's worth having, it's worth being patient to get it.

[turnera]

If (1) you find proof she is still cheating with OM and (2) if you still want to save your marriage, you expose to her parents and siblings and her one best friend. If 1 and 2 don't exist, you don't expose.

[Chi townD]

okay, you need to start to do the 180 in your marriage. The 180 is a way to start to help you heal from this relationship. A way to protect yourself. It also lets your WW see the changes that you are making within yourself. It shows her that you are capable of moving on without her. It also shows' her that the OM threw her under the bus and you are moving forward and she going to lose you unless SHE does something.

 

 

So here's the list:

1. Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
   
2. No frequent phone calls.
   
3. Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
   
4. Don't follow her/him around the house.
   
5. Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
   
6. Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.
   
7. Don't ask for reassurances.
   
8. Don't buy or give gifts.
   
9. Don't schedule dates together.
   
10. Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.
    
11. Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
    
12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
    
13. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
    
14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
    
15. If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
    
16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!
    
17. Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
    
18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
    
19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
    
20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
    
21. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
    
22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
    
23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
    
24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
    
25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
    
26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
    
27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
    
28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
    
29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!
    
30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
    
31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"
    
32. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
    
33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW."
    

Give it a shot. What do you have to lose?

[2sunny]

So - you were "checked out" of this M for years... And ignoring her while on drugs - and now that you found out someone else is paying attention to her needs while you ignored her - you just expect her to step right back in?

 

What are YOU doing to regain some level of trust and consistent behavior?

 

What work are you doing for YOU to be a better man?

 

I'd like to know...

[2sunny]

is there a point in informing her friends about A? I am pretty sure she has not told them based on the emails I've read; she paints herself as the only victim in all this

 

Of course she does. That victim role provides her with the denial that she did anything wrong.

 

There's so much work to do IF you intend to repair this M (which it looks like that's your intention).

 

You can't MAKE her! Yet you would sleep with her IF she wanted to... Hmmm. That wouldn't fix anything! The only thing it would show is that she still holds all the power to manipulate and control YOU by spreading her legs. Also rewards her bad behavior... She gets the idea that everything is ok now after her cheating.

 

You have work to do - handing her that much power is completely out of balance! Even thinking she has earned ANY right to sleeping with you is betraying yourself! Tell her hell no! Tell your kids the truth! "I'm not sleeping with Mombecause her choice has been to share her body with her boss for a long time!"

 

That's the truth! She did it - say what's real! Then she may realize that she dd this to herself. Her choices - her actions - she needs to own what she did before any healing can even be considered!

[c0nfuzd]

So - you were "checked out" of this M for years... And ignoring her while on drugs - and now that you found out someone else is paying attention to her needs while you ignored her - you just expect her to step right back in?

 

What are YOU doing to regain some level of trust and consistent behavior?

 

What work are you doing for YOU to be a better man?

 

I'd like to know...

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t297412/