Author Poconobob Posted August 30, 2004 Author Share Posted August 30, 2004 Originally posted by Sheba Bob You seem like a good guy who has had some bad times. I hope things work out for you in the fashion you would like. I suspect you have now passed through the "denial" and "anger" stages and moved towards acceptance.... There is no need for you to passively accept what life is handing you. Your commitment to your marriage is admirable. Many women and men hope to but never find a partner as dedicated as you have been. If your marriage fails, it will be a sad thing, but don't abandon your ideals - you might find another woman comes into your life who holds places a high value on those same ideals. Read my thread about my partner's apparent "crush"... I am one of those people, like you, totally committed to a relationship with someone less committed. Sheba Hmmm, a crush, I don't understand how a crush can be "there" if someone truly wants to be married. Perhaps I just touched on the premise, IF someone wants to be married. I believe my wife is to a great degree over the entire marriage of years of ups and downs as most are if not all and wants to see if the grass is greener. Kinda like a mid life crisis where you ask "is this all there is, is this all there will be to life"..... especially since we were married early in life, she "feels" a need not met by me. Sure I can change myself to be better but lets face it, if someone wants to see if the grass is greener, then and only then will they see it is not greener......then again perhaps she'll see it is better on her own. Our entire marriage has been with child, not as a couple. There are things we both have been through together that have been impossible, i.e., loss if a child, gone broke after she got ill and multitudes of challenges, however, with her, she is headstrong to see what she is all about, discover Cathy again, whatever that is. Then of course perhaps she did cheat and it was with a younger man and she sees me as the ole' man and that there was a reason she cheated and that deep deep down inside she blames me for pushing her to that point and then since then she feels less for me as a husband. People as I see it pull when pushed, push when pulled... and I pushed, I toughened, and now accept tomorrow. Sure I'll ask her out to dinner as friends so often do but I understand that for me, I MUST move on.... I look at it all as this; A--I've always been faithful B--I have always provided and been there for everything she needed me for C--I'm under appreciated for my good points D--I'm honest E--I NEVER have not come home, have not touched another lady ....... and am IMO good looking....healthy....hard set on values, and shXt, if she cannot see that, screw it. Today, I'd gotten a very pretty lady who just graduated college flurt with me and guess what, this time I asked her out. The heck with holding onto someone who doesn't appreciate me. I only want to be friends with this girl....but who knows. She is sweet, very sweet...a college grad BUT 16 years younger than me. She said sure when I asked; and yes, I did explain I have a 17 year old and that I'm on the outs with my wife and getting divorced/separated. I explained I'm nice enough to allow her to live under the same roof. She was a bit bewildered that I'd allow that and said I was a good man for being honest as she said many aren't and that she thought I was cute but thought I was like only 30 or 33 but I'm 39....lol, good for the baby face, huh. So I'm coping NOT to replace my loss but I've kinda for lack of a better word mourned the loss of a marriage which I did not fail..... My wife calls it a failed marriage but I corrected her and said NO, it is a quit marriage, not a failure on my part as I want to work it out and "you" don't. Bla bla bla, I know but I thought I'd tell ya that I am strong enough to be able to live with my "family", have my wife as a relative, not a wife...and to move on with friendships. I'm DEFINITELY not after this girl named Stephanie for you know what....I simply was attracted to her personality. My wife is better looking, this girl Stephanie is a tad bit on the heavy side by 10-20 pounds but is otherwise very, very pretty, and mostly I can say if anything I'd like to just be friends. The last thing I want is a replacement.......heck with that. I just want to have a good time with someone, maybe go dancing, dinner......and no sex. That is the absolute last thing I want, I first have to be friends for a few months. bob Link to post Share on other sites
Author Poconobob Posted August 30, 2004 Author Share Posted August 30, 2004 Originally posted by jmargel Bob, I still think you are holding onto a false hope. You are still very attached to your wife, and when July rolls around and she leaves, it's going to be that much harder. Why are you letting her stay when she still tells you she wants to leave eventually? Remember, don't look into things that she says. Take them at face value. You taking her out to dinner, etc.. is just showing her your acceptance of everything. Why put your life on hold until July? She is still calling all the shots, if you realize it or not. I mean, how much anger can one person have over another to keep doing this? It's been months now. It's your life so I won't tell you what to do with it, but you need to start focusing on yourself. And as long as she's not willing to goto counseling and work this out and she is still there, then the focus is still on her and the relationship. Jeff....honest honest honest I'm not attached not nearly as much as I was. Would I like to work things out.... well ..... at this point I don't honestly know if I would like to, she has hurt me, she continues to be hot/cold/hot/cold and when nice, "asks" nice things, does nice things....but in the end seems to continue the "I'm over it" mentality so how else can I say it other than bluntly. I feel that she is here to save money, enough so she can move out with some cash, so she can then be more independent. Sure I took her out to dinner, she still is my "friend"....I don't wanna be enemies, certainly not..... I discuss the future with her, I discuss all there is to be beyond next Summer. However, the wifey poo now says she isn't willing to help our son with college that she'll be poor. Waaaaaa, I don't buy it, I feel or think that she should be paying for it, it isn't my fault she is going back to school.....after all, her son should be the priority, NOT herself. I think it is selfish, cruel, and down right wrong. What will I do? Only time will tell.....but I will say this, if we divorce in spring, I damn well will ensure she is responsible for his college tuition along with me. And should she not be forced to help, heck....I'll just have to pay for his school and be poor myself. Her anger, read my last post.....that'll tell you where I'm at as far as milestones in my plight to become self independent, have my own life. If she wants to be a marter, go ahead, if she wants to be friends, fine....if she wants to leave, PLEASE go ahead. I tried, we all know that, I tried too much....and she has not lifted a finger to point the finger back at herself as part of the problem and chooses not to look for solutions. "It's your life so I won't tell you what to do with it, but you need to start focusing on yourself. And as long as she's not willing to goto counseling and work this out and she is still there, then the focus is still on her and the relationship." No no.....do tell. This "situation" is good for me as I get rent from her, lol.....sorry couldn't resist the joke. But truly, look at it at face friggen value, she has not done any of the things you've recommended, I've done all the things you, my doctor, my psychologist, my friends, my parents have all said. I've tried very hard, I've stooped to the level of being the bastar d and I've stooped to being the root of the problem letting it all fall on me and you know what......LOOK where she took it, she took advantage. What PEEVES me is she said she'd move out.....I know it is the darn comfort zone, not having to face the reality of her dismantling our live together and she sees being able to go to school and vent all her frustration and try to forget "us" in the mean time. For me, I see this as a cop out....nothing but a cop out, easy way for her to leave ..... She doesn't have the b-a----------------------lls to leave. Our son wants mom here... if only until he graduates. I'm OVER putting effort into this, I'm over it all. I even look at her on the couch over the weekend and saw someone who is a relative stranger, someone who has a constant frown.....and for all purposes someone already detached. So why don't I detach, huh? Meanwhile, I'm seeing she is looking at places to live in Tampa and St Pete where "we" used to live and where I'm moving if I choose to in spring. God this is like a novel...or soap opera.... I gain strength weekly from knowing I've done all I can do and that I'm the better person in this.......nuff said. bob Link to post Share on other sites
pedwin Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Bob, I have been trying to catch up on all I have missed. I am worrited about you! You have met this girl who flirted with you and you were flattered!! Lord knows you deserve happiness, affection, sex, etc. If anyone deserves it you do. But please be careful. I am wondering if your wife is not waiting for you to do exactly what you are doing. Then she could take you to court for adultry!!! She would have all kinds of proof and you would be destroyed. Please be careful!! If you find that you cannot hold on any longer then ask her to move out. If you move out she can get you for desertion. You are such a nice person I would hate to see you get railroaded. Take care Pewin Link to post Share on other sites
jmargel Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Bob, Be very careful with this other woman. Like Pedwin said, you two aren't even legally seperated. She can go back on you for adultry, saying it's all your fault. The divorce can get very ugly. Besides you don't have anything in common with a 23 year old. She is just looking for a sugar daddy. You have enough problems to deal with, so I'm telling ya, stay away from her! Those kinda girls know what to say and when to say it. Trust me, I've had my share who would try that with me. They know what they are doing. If you 'truly' want to move on, tell your wife you want a seperation and that it's best that she moves out. If she doesn't like her job, she can move back to ohio and live with her mom. Then find someone in your own age group who's had possibliy a similar situation. This 23 year old is very immature and she is only looking for sex. You really need to pull yourself together right now. When my ex left, I was starved emotionally, but the chicks I ran into, all they wanted was sex. Personally, if I was single (and I'm 30) I wouldn't date anyone younger than 5 years from me. Girls her age still have alot to experience in life, and this 'friends' thing, basically means you dating her and paying her way, while she gives you sex in return. Link to post Share on other sites
pedwin Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Bob I hope you listen to jmargel. He is right on!! These young girls don't want to work. They want a big strong daddy to take care of them. Make your wife move out!!!! If she wants to seperate then you be the one to choose when!!! If my H came home and said I'm going to leave you, but I'm going to live here until I get all my eggs in one basket. I WOULD THROW HIM OUT ON HIS BUTT!!!! If he wanted to leave me I sure as hell wouldn't make it easy for him to dump me. Please be careful!!! Don't let her turn this around on you. It could cost you everything, even your children. Pedwin Link to post Share on other sites
VivianLee Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Bob, It's getting hard for me to give you advice. You run so hot or so cold. I know this situation has to be confusing as can be but you need to get some clarity and stop jumping in one side of the fence only to jump back over to the other. The one thing I can relate to is about your son. I have a 17 yr old daughter and I would love for her to never come from a broken home. It's been possible that twice her Daddy and I could have split up. The deep down only true reason we have worked things out was because we loved each other. Yes, kids come first BUT staying together because of the kids should NEVER be the reason. Not cheating, not being an alcoholic, drug addict, criminal, being good providers and loving the child is what parent's should consider but if the marriage is unhappy, that is between you and your wife, of course your son will be affected but that's not his or your fault. In fact it doesn't need to be about fault, it's about the fact that sometimes even love doesn't work out for various reasons BUT your son will survive. He's not in this marriage, you are. He's not the one that will have to live in a sexless, loveless, room-mate only, hopeless, being used for a place to live marriage but you will. It will do him no good to see you lose pieces of you every day and to see his Mama live off of you. What kind of example do you think you will be setting for him living like you are?? He will be okay. His Mama can live in the same city and have him visit. Going out with anyone right now would be the most ridiculous move you could make. Any lawyer, doctor and Indian Chief would tell you that. No matter how old they are, not till you are legally separated, it’s not just a moral thing, it’s to keep your hide from getting taken to the cleaners!! Take care and get things settled once and for all…. Link to post Share on other sites
TMCM Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Originally posted by VivianLee Going out with anyone right now would be the most ridiculous move you could make. Any lawyer, doctor and Indian Chief would tell you that. No matter how old they are, not till you are legally separated, it’s not just a moral thing, it’s to keep your hide from getting taken to the cleaners!! I agree with you that it is definitely NOT a good idea for Bob to get involved with anybody else during this time not only because a rebound relationship while still married to another person is plain wrong [it IS an affair] but also because it impedes the healing process that is needed before a person is ready for another committed relationship. While legally he could be taken to the cleaners in a handful of remaining fault divorce States, the reality is that infidelity no longer plays a part in the distribution of marital assets. Besides today married women who make more money than their unfaithful H's have learned that unless they have a pre-nup agreement they also will be taken to the cleaners, just ask Joan Lunden former morning host of ABC's Good Morning America. But still it is much better for Bob to err on the side of caution rather than put himself in a predicament where an affair of his own will only bring him legal grief. Link to post Share on other sites
jmargel Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Bob, The letters you wrote to her seemed to have an impact on her. My only suggestion would be to write another letter, and towards the end stating you can't live like this. That you need resolution in your life one way or another. That either she wants to work on things, or to let it go. And if she chooses the latter, for her to move asap. The way things are going you'll never make it until July. You'll go nuts before then. We can all see you are attracted to that 23 year old, not for her looks, but for the companionship you've been longing for so much from your wife. It's time to make the ultamatium.. And it's ok to tell her she needs to move on if she doesn't want to be with you. Link to post Share on other sites
VivianLee Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Originally posted by TMCM I agree with you that it is definitely NOT a good idea for Bob to get involved with anybody else during this time not only because a rebound relationship while still married to another person is plain wrong [it IS an affair] but also because it impedes the healing process that is needed before a person is ready for another committed relationship. While legally he could be taken to the cleaners in a handful of remaining fault divorce States, the reality is that infidelity no longer plays a part in the distribution of marital assets. Besides today married women who make more money than their unfaithful H's have learned that unless they have a pre-nup agreement they also will be taken to the cleaners, just ask Joan Lunden former morning host of ABC's Good Morning America. But still it is much better for Bob to err on the side of caution rather than put himself in a predicament where an affair of his own will only bring him legal grief. Thanks for the legal update but I don't really see how this will help Bob in the long run, if you have followed this thread and read my post, that was just a small percentage of what I discussed with Bob. Plus if you have this knowledge then perhaps find out what the laws in PA are concerning this....that would help Bob more than correcting me.... Link to post Share on other sites
Sheba Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 If you can stand yet more unsolicited legal advice, Bob, my suggestion is that you stay put with your son and ask that your wife make the choice: is she in the marriage or out? In, to me, would mean a whole-hearted effort by her on all fronts, including sexually - although it would be wise, I suspect, to "court" her and move slowly towards resumption of a physical relationship after some period of time. Immediately, though, she should be participating as a full family member, in meals, outings and meaningful discussion. If she will agree with this and show some effort towards fulfilling the bargain, you can work on welcoming her back into the fold and reviving your commitment. Out, should mean out of the marriage, with a plan for HER to move out of the house. Give her some time to organize this, to be fair and do not be stingy about sharing the furnishings, but do not allow yourself to be displaced from the home or your son's life. If you live in one of those so-called "fault divorce" states, find out now. In Canada, adultery is a ground for a divorce rarely relied upon, because it is far easier to prove a one-year separation. Other than as a basis to grant a divorce judgment, adultery is hardly given a moment's thought by the Courts unless it is conducted in the presence of the children. Finally, if sitting on the fence, the position you appear to have taken up, is causing you no pain, then go ahead and sit there. It is your marriage at stake. Just do everything you can to shelter from your son the bad feelings flowing between his parents. Cause him as little harm as possible. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Poconobob Posted September 2, 2004 Author Share Posted September 2, 2004 I simply cannot answer all so I'll take each one into account in my rational decisions, that I promise. First an update, yesterday she called me into her bedroom and asked me if I'd seen a lawyer as she has just done that. She said it is expensive, there is no such thing as legal separation, and Pa is a no fault state, and that it will cost thousands "each". I said wait a minute, this is YOU who wants a divorce so I'm not getting an atty.....as a matter of fact, you get your atty, and once I'm satisfied it is all fair, then and only then will it go on. I said if it becomes bitter, it won't be because of me. I said we only need to split everything even....sell the house, and move on. She suggested we do this soon as this is VERY HARD.....then started cry, cry, cry crap again. I said if it is so hard, DON'T.....and her reply was.....WHAT, AND LIVE LIKE THIS FOREVER. I said no, then just dropped it. She is so darn stubborn, kinda an idiot if you ask me. I'm so so sick of being told "you need this, you need to do that".....I shut that sheeeet down, I not only did that but further expounded on how I'm no longer weak(er) minded and if she doesn't wanna work it out, so be it. Our house here is kinda the white elephant.....I have to put it on the market, I just have zero help from her....and I told her to sell it if she wants. Oh by the way, she STILL has not cooked a meal for our son in months.....nothing...not one thing. Grrrrrrrrrr-- and is kinda nasty to him still and she gets sarcasm right back..... My son and I have a great relationship, we talk about everything, he knows "the deal" with mom, he told me he understands the whole thing and I surmise at 17, he should pick up on the heart of the problem. IMO, the woman doesn't want to go on, she wants to be freed of family, life as a family, etc.....and be single. As for my "date".... I don't see why a guy/girl differ when all you are doing is going out to dinner or something. Honestly, I swear, she isn't out for sex, she doesn't need a sugar daddy, this person has a 4 year degree from PSU, has plenty of money, makes a good living. She and I just hit it off personality wise.....it was refreshing to have someone who is intelligent and articulate, and smart. I cannot tell you how badly I need friendship....and darn it guys I mean it, I'm not out to get in her pants, I KNOW for a fact based on how picky she is that she isn't out for sex either. How do I know this? Well, I spoke with her Uncle whom she lives with, he is going to also buy a vehicle from me.....he was telling me how she is....see I was telling him that I got her this tire cover for the Jeep Liberty she bought, I got it for her and snuck it in the "deal" without her knowing it. ... Anyway, I told him she wanted one but couldn't afford it since she put down so much cash and I wanted her to have it. He said "she needs to find a rich man".......and then I said ... well I'm sorta successful. He said WELL, the way it works in our family is that you have to pass the family approval before any dates. She doesn't like many guys because not many are intelligent. On he went on how picky she is....and also what a brain she is with an extremely high IQ....and all this stuff. See, had I guessed before getting her credit application, I would have placed her in her late, late 20's because she definitely doesn't act as a kid. There would be no way I'd stand a person the way you guys said of a 23 year old. By the way, I did the math wrong, next month, she'll be 25.....and by the way, I'm 39 going on 20, lol..... I don't look, act, speak, or anything like some old(er) man after a chicky. The bars are full of that crap.... For the first time in over a year, I actually become happy inside. There is no price for that, I DON'T have the happy in love type feeling, just the mere fact I'm still good enough to be sought after by someone who is flat out great looking flattered me. I figure the proof would be in the pudding if I had a casual dinner with her and then told her ALL....it is only fair, maybe not details but all in so far as my marriage, etc. Oh and lastly, I had an open discussion with my soon to be X wife....it was about seeing other's.....She said she wants me to move on with my life. I don't care for my wife's attitude.... The way she said it was so degrading as if to say IF you could find someone, go for it....really silly if you ask me. So in the end, here is the deal, I'm still going to "possibly" go out and have a good HONEST time.....If I smell a rat, I'm out. Meanwhile, just understand that my life has always been filled with friends that were female.....I had male friends but I also had female friends, NEVER once cheated, kissed, nothing. I set boundries... Sometimes my wife would get jealous because they were pretty or something but she KNEW every single time I was to go to lunch with someone of the opposite sex as a friend, and the lunch or sometimes early dinner was talking about mutual friends, and normal stuff. I sure hope this isn't taken out of context. I still feel as though I'm "selling" you on the idea of hooking up with a nice girl.... She ISN'T a hoe.....not after dough, now if you wanted to put into context truly, look at my wife, why do ya think she wants to stay here until July, EVEN if divorced??? I'll tell ya, because it is for MONEY, so she saves all she can, I am not stupid. Oh and once again I do charge her rent and all the bills are half and the only thorn in my side is that she owes for food, it seems I get stuck with gasoline bill on her vehicle, any maintenance on the house as in a filter that is 40 bucks, or groceries. THAT crap is soon to end too, there is no free ride.... I hope I've not offended, I hope you guys can understand, and lastly I'll give it thought, deep thought and tell you before I "date" someone, deal? I believe honesty is always the best asset a man can have; it takes a man to also give a woman he has been married to for 18 years time to get herself situated if we're to divorce, it is fair. I still care for her, always will.....and besides her rent check clears bob Link to post Share on other sites
jmargel Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Anyway, I told him she wanted one but couldn't afford it since she put down so much cash and I wanted her to have it. He said "she needs to find a rich man".......and then I said ... well I'm sorta successful. He said WELL, the way it works in our family is that you have to pass the family approval before any dates. She doesn't like many guys because not many are intelligent. On he went on how picky she is....and also what a brain she is with an extremely high IQ....and all this stuff. Hellllllllllllloooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.. Red flag!! She has little money now because she put so much down on this jeep, so you gave her a gift already by giving her the tire cover. Not only that, remember what her uncle said? She needs to find a rich man? And you response was?? Ugh.. Bob, I have given good advice before, correct? Listen to me. If you want to be friends with her fine, but going out to dinner with her is a date. You can try to rationalize it all you want, but that is what it is. I feel part of you is doing this because you are emotionally starved, but part of it is vindication. And really, it's not so much she is a female, it's because of her age. So what she graduated from PSU? 10,000 people graduate from it every year. You are getting yourself into a mess by doing this. Now your wife will have a real reason to hate you. You words to your wife, the letter you wrote will become meaningless. We can all understand you are angry, but you will be going back to your old ways if you do this. How many more people on here have to tell you not to do it, before you listen? Neither of you can live like the way you are. You should also call your Dr. in Florida. He will give you advice about this. My only suggestion right now is to ask your wife if she wants to move with her mom, or what is her next step. Right now you probably feel alone, and to tell you the truth it's going to get worse before getting better. But in the end, things will work out. Link to post Share on other sites
VivianLee Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 First of all, ditto to EVERYTHING jmargel said!! Read it a few times... Before I become harsh, I want to say that I totally understand that your ego and self-esteem have taken a bruising from the time you had the wreck to the point that your wife won't even sleep in the same room with you. That is a killer!! Now this quote from you... See, had I guessed before getting her credit application, I would have placed her in her late, late 20's because she definitely doesn't act as a kid. There would be no way I'd stand a person the way you guys said of a 23 year old. By the way, I did the math wrong, next month, she'll be 25.....and by the way, I'm 39 going on 20, lol..... I don't look, act, speak, or anything like some old(er) man after a chicky. My first thought was, maybe Bob's 30-something yr old wife doesn't like being married to a guy that won't grow up past 20... My second thought was, although I don't doubt Bob is attractive and intelligent...he sounds like an almost middle-aged man that is basing too much on this 25 yr old's attention....that's not a cool scenario and of course I know you'll disagree but that's just how it sounds and may be how it looks when you are out with her... You sound like you have given up on your marriage nor have hopes of working things out. First things, first....as jmargel said, get her out of the house. It's your choice to go out with this chick and I do understand why you would (I'm sorry, I don't buy that anything below the waist WON'T come to mind though..) want to BUT if you are still inclined to work this out with your wife, you are being a hypocrite towards her. You know good and well you'd hit the roof if you found out she was going to dinner with a 25 or even a 35 yr old male!! Get things in order then you'll have plenty of dates and perhaps true love again! Think very carefully with your brain and get her out of the house and get a divorce so you won't have this chick or another on this forum writing "My MM won't kick his wife out but loves me!"..... Take care! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Poconobob Posted September 3, 2004 Author Share Posted September 3, 2004 OMG, and over and over, I got a 20 minute lecture on the stupidity of dating ANYONE. He said I should go buy a baby bottle and suck on it while I'm at it get some diapers and put them on because all I'm doing is trying to be an infant.....on and on and on he went about my asking the same posed question about going out with a twenties "chick". Oh, before I forget I didn't buy her a tire cover, it was something I worked into the deal and didn't tell her until afterward. Anyway, after ALL considerations, I've dropped my fantacy of just going out except in my mind waaaaaaay back, VIVIAN you got it right, security of manlyhood being in my 30's about to hit 40 and a good looking 20 something comes along and ego driven male testosterone took over my psycological side or should I say rational side. I picture a little devil up next to my head on one side saying go for it, all will be okay, on the other side, the angel saying NOOOOOOOOO....well, the angel carries a club and bonked me on the head. You guys said get her out of the house......HOW?..... My doc said put the house on the market and GET THE F OUT OF THERE.....so what if she wants to be there until July, SO let her deal with that. Sell the house, move back to Florida where I have a "support" system and let the mind games end. If she wants to see what it is like alone, so be it. If she wants divorce, so be it.......in other words stop trying and start packing is exactly what he said. Seeing you pack and putting the house on the market might push her to realize all this isn't fantacy, it is reality and soon she'll be on her own and he said before several times it scared her and she didn't do anything, NOW let it happen again and see. I gotta run....running almost late! bob Link to post Share on other sites
VivianLee Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Wow Bob!! After your doctor, I guess I wasn't so harsh after all!! For the sake of regret....ask her one more time if she wants the marriage to work out (as in working it out, going to counseling, moving back into your bed and not leaving or getting a divorce in July) if not.....she needs to get out!! How to get her out of the house.... Get a lawyer (it's about self-preservation) Tell her you want her to move out. Sell it out from under her (it's in your name isn't it??). Be cordial while she is still there but not buddy-buddy. Whatever you may be paying for her, stop. Give her a reasonable time limit (30 days). She's going to cry, it's going to stir something inside....stay strong....women can use crying as a way to soften a man....just remember, she's crying because she isn't getting her way..... My advice to you is if the house sells right away, don't move to Florida right away for two reasons. 1.) You should never make a big move or step under emotional circumstances. 2.) Let your son finish his senior year at his high school and be near his Mom (not in the same house) while he's still in school. Link to post Share on other sites
hotgurl Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Bob, I have been reading your post. You need need need to get your wife out of the house. even if you want to get back together nothing good can come of the situation your in. Be firm give her 30 days Stop paying for her. See a lawyer. Tell her you can't live like this anymore. it is not fair to you or your sons and ask her to leave. I don't know the legal repurcussion but have a document drwn up that see has 30 days to leave has topay 1/2 the expenses and now you are seperated. By the way I wouldn't take it on your wife's word that there is no legal seperation in pa. Link to post Share on other sites
pedwin Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 Hi Bob it's Pedwin, Something just came to mind as I was reading your posts. Could it possibly be that your wife has no intentions of leaving and she is just jerking your chain? I think that maybe she is doing this for attention. I think she is paying you back for any and everything she feels you did to her in the past. I have been guilty of saying I was leaving and not meaning it.( I HAD EVERY DAMN RIGHT TO THREATEN IT). I did it to get a rise out of him and to possibly make him beg me to stay. If a woman doesn't want to be married anymore, she can't get out of the house fast enough. I think she likes the way you are treating her now and she also likes the fact that she's got you dancing for her. This could possibly be one enormous ego trip. stay safe, Pedwin Link to post Share on other sites
Author Poconobob Posted September 5, 2004 Author Share Posted September 5, 2004 I'll take each answer one at a time...first, thanks for the input. Vivian, the house is in both names, otherwise the dilemma wouldn't be as profound!! I just wish I didn't have this white elephant as she calls it. I'm in no way saying I want her to stay but our son wants it this way until he graduates....I've grown used to living separate; heck, last night I went out w/friends and got home at 4 a.m......arggg, no not what u might think, actually I went out with the builder of our home, his wife, another couple and me, all by myself and danced but that was it...I was the designated driver by choice and took 'em out to bkfst after clubbin'....(not that there is much to do up here in the boonies, lol)...oh, and by the way, LITERALLY this was the first time I set foot in a "club" since BEFORE I was married eons ago. Nothing has changed except the music...and girls are LOTS more forward as in asking to dance, etc. I swear on my life I was a good boy... As for 30 days, I don't have the "power" to kick her out, she must leave on her own accord OR I leave which I"m not. Lawyer, nope, why--because I told her if she wants this, it is all on her, and I mean ALL. Say for example she does something irrational, then I'll be a dick; until then, I'm secure. Secure as in she can't sell this house without me, she is on each bill I'm on, and I collect a check from her twice a month for bills. The only thing I can say is I've asked about "regret", her reply to my saying if it is so hard, don't leave or give up is this; WHAT, and live like this for the rest of my life...this isn't working, can't you see that, bla bla bla....same story, different day, then she cries. As for moving, that is why I have not put the house on the market yet....I "want" my son to have a home life of sorts, I want this one thing not to be disturbed, i.e., where he lives. As for moving to Florida, there would be little reason for me to stay once he graduates, this isn't a life here unless something like a HUGE change in my job as in management "soon".....etc. All I can say is that HOME as they say is where the heart is, my heart is down in florida. By the way, speaking of here vs. there, remember the girl, she sent me a referral, her aunt and uncle whom she lives with, isn't that nice....she is sooooo sweet but I know, I know.. I must just move on.... hotgurl---hi, as for booting, I can't obviously, I don't pay anything "for" her and we split everything. I seem to end up paying when we go out for dinner, etc. By the way, she still asks me out to dinner...weirdo huh. "Could it possibly be that your wife has no intentions of leaving and she is just jerking your chain? I think that maybe she is doing this for attention. I think she is paying you back for any and everything she feels you did to her in the past. I have been guilty of saying I was leaving and not meaning it.( I HAD EVERY DAMN RIGHT TO THREATEN IT). I did it to get a rise out of him and to possibly make him beg me to stay. If a woman doesn't want to be married anymore, she can't get out of the house fast enough. I think she likes the way you are treating her now and she also likes the fact that she's got you dancing for her. This could possibly be one enormous ego trip. " Hmm, at first I thought that, you kind of hit on something my doctor and I talked about the other day. I asked him what the deal was, said look at how she is being and he said that the fact is, she said she is DONE, sure she may be confused, scared, etc but look at it from the reality aspect....she moves inch by inch away not back, nothing in his eyes has shown a desire to stay other than for financial reasons. I know he isn't a marriage expert but I do take his advice on most things. She told me she sought a lawyer's advice, how can that be messing around or playing with my head? She is studying HARD for enterance in school, she by the way this week(lol) is gonna go to Alabama....ALL her time is spent forgetting me, I'm telling you, she is trying HARD to rid herself of me. bob Link to post Share on other sites
Author Poconobob Posted September 6, 2004 Author Share Posted September 6, 2004 Hope everyone had a great labor day....I worked, nuff said, anyway, I have been thinking about giving this marriage thing another shot while still leveraging my options as in going out, having fun in a safe way, etc. Foremost, the first thinking I did was about myself, what exactly don't I like about myself compared to when I was in the greatest graces of marriage, then it hit me, I'm not in the same shape. Sure I'm built but not lean, cut, and toned. I have been reading on Muscle and Fitness some tips and have decided tomorrow to join a "real" gym, get back into body scupting like I had done....I also decided to go back to the ole' cologne "she" loved when we met. U C....she has gotten back into shape, I have not nearly gotten as far into shape. Today, we had a casual day at work and a couple people said man I didn't know you had such big guns (bicepts)etc...and I wore a tight shirt which showed my figure closer than an ole' dress shirt does. I felt good but not great....and I figure if people can't tell I'm in kinda good shape wearing dress attire, I need to work on my physique more. Soooo by my birthday Nov 11th, I'm out to lose 25 pounds or more yet gain mass and definition. So with my "new" goal, first off, am I being dumb for thinking that okay, she has seen me change my attitude, personality, actions, yet still, I smoke cigars which is a NASTY habit she hates, and she always used to comment how (and this is embarrassing) how "yummy" I looked and she would go ummm ummm ummm.....and obviously now I'm not getting that. Even when she was pissed.... bob Link to post Share on other sites
TMCM Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Bob getting yourself back in shape is a great idea. Not only would you be improving your health but you would be improving your looks as well. This latter one will probably have the most impact on her [if she is receptive] because it will show her that you have a great outlook on the future and it just might start her wondering why you are doing this in the first place [i.e. another woman]. Of course it doesn't matter what she thinks because it is irrelevant to your plans for the future which may or may not include her. Keep up the good work Bob. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Poconobob Posted September 7, 2004 Author Share Posted September 7, 2004 Oddly enough, she has been nice to me, especially since I've been staying positive and not fighting. I wanted to tell you all that lately for the past few days especially I've become VERY sad at bed time, I miss having her in my bed, not for any other reason, just that I feel so alone. Today, she said that I smell sick since she moved out of the bed??? WHAT the "f" does that mean? I said, well, guess I am sick....then she said that I seem like I want to say something but I buttoned up and didn't for the simple fact that it was only last week that she saw a lawyer and I don't see the benefit of saying "I wish you'd move back in"... Jeff, you were/are right, except I can't push her out. I promise NO MORE thinking of dating, ESPECIALLY while married. A book I'd read said "date other's".... I am just so lonely inside, no not for sex but for simple things like holding hands. As a couple, we used to walk in the mall holding hands, we'd lay on the couch holding hands or my arm around her or I'd simply be rubbing her neck.....i.e., lots of touching almost too much. I guess my idea of dating deep deep deep inside is to try to forget, try to go beyond stagnation .... Truth is, I still hold in my heart a deep love.....WHY, WHY, WHY won't she bend? Is she as my doctor says "confused" yet thinks she wants divorce? What exactly can I do to remind her of the good times to force feed the feelings I know she has for me. She cried the other night, and as a matter of fact, she cries everytime she mentions splitting up then says it is so hard. I'm sick, yep...I'm sick. I try each day to show I'm happy, to show I'm okay but inside, I'm not, as a matter of fact I'm NEVER going to not be sick. It isn't that I won't be able to find happiness but I certainly won't find or hold the love I have for you. You won't believe me when I say 5 out of 7 nights I cry myself to sleep or I lay there just looking over at your side knowing you aren't there, hurting beyond your comprehension, hugging the dog and holding the cat for security. This if you want to call it sick, sure it is, I'm slowly dying of a broken heart. I now know what is like for the elderly who lose a loved one and only wish to pass....problem is, I still see you and it is like a live video in my mind's eye of the past when we were together. I gave it LOTS of thought, I gave it reasonable thinking, I spoke at length with Dr. Boutin, he said he wishes he could speak to you about running away from your family life....he said there is a reason hypothetically that you have not left, whether you want to admit it or not, it isn't just about the house or bills as if someone wants to leave, they just UP and leave. But he also YELLED at me over and over and over to see it from your perspective.....I see you plan, I see you push your own future dreams without a family, and I truly envy how you can be so strong. It all seems so surreal...just knowing July will come, and we'll never see each other again hurts.....but that will have to be how it is if I'm to move on, I'll have to never see or hear for you again in order for me to live. For all the years we had been married, I sought to protect you, not hurt you... I was under enormous stress, I have no excuses, I tell you no lies, just the god's honest truth about how I feel and felt. I was your protector, your best friend, you and I did everything together, and I mean everything....whether that was good or bad, I think it became a co-dependancy of late in which you had to be in charge of everything. I kind of checked out of life for a year; heck, ever since moving, just being here in this house and having to be alone with the dogs and losing them one by one, compounded with your working long hours... well, it just deepened it all. When you said it is hard and I said well then don't......and you said something on the order of "and live like this"....well, no I don't mean living like this, I just want the slimmest of chances of earning your trust, trying "us" if even for a few months, days, weeks, hours.... There is some reason it is so hard for both of us, there is a reason we both cry, there is also a reason not to try and honestly, the months after the blow out cannot be construed as either of us trying, it was more like "war of the roses".... All my life, I searched for ways to make you happy when it all along it is simple things which I took for granted which make women happy. Things like just laying in bed and hugging, holding hands, back rubs, etc....which don't lead to sex which are important. Doing things like a gift of flowers like I used to do....like buying US a set of tickets to the Bahamas, like taking walks which have happy talks, dreaming, planning for retirement.....NOT being after the biggest tv, smallest computer chip, having the largest house, ALL THAT I see as being stupid. Though I look like the same person, I'm not....and neither are you. Cathleen, I love you, not in a possessive way either, not to wonder where you are, what you are doing, no no...love as in a person(me) who dies a little each day, cries a little each night, and NEVER stops wondering, what if......what if......trouble is, I can't do anything about the person I was. I can only try each day as I have been taught to do something each day positive, not negative.....and believe me, I am stuck on constantly having the slimmest of hope you'd see the difference, allow me to be the man of your dreams, including respect, honesty, giving space, appreciating what I have, inspecting daily what I expect of myself, allowing YOU the freedom of career choices and continuing as I have to promote a motivation for you to succeed as I always have done. I've always tried to push you to do your best... I just wish I could go with you, wherever you want to go, together would be far easier, and better for the family. Bryan could go to school, you could school, I would do my part.... I don't care where it is so long as we are together. And no, not like "this"....slowly see if there is any spark left. I have not ever been so candid, it is hard for me to do this, I'd come to give up, I'd come to accept it all YET, Cathleen, PLEASE believe me when I say that I just can't get over you, you do so many little cute things, you don't even realize it..... Love, bob Link to post Share on other sites
pedwin Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Bob, I still have a feeling she is not planning on moving!!!! I went to a lawyer and brought the papers home just to show him I was serious. I really didn't want to leave I just wanted him to ask me to stay. I wanted to know that I meant something to him. If he had ignored me and said nothing I would have left, but I was hoping with all my heart it would turn out like I wanted it to. THANK GOD IT DID! We are now in therapy and giving it our best shot. Dr. Phil said one time on his show that if you get a divorce you should be able to say I DID EVERYTHING I COULD AND I GAVE IT EVERYTHING I HAD. I am so sorry you are in so much pain. Maybe i'm wrong but I don't think so!!!! I think she has pushed this so far she can't turn it around because of her pride!! You would probably have to ask more than once in order for her to save face but I believe in the end she would say yes!!! I am thinking about you, Pedwin Link to post Share on other sites
VivianLee Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Bob, I'm sitting here after reading your post/letter and just crying my eyes out!! I'm sitting here crying my eyes out for a guy named Bob in PA that is heartbroken!!! I hope to goodness you plan having her read what you wrote. That is the most purest and naked view into the heart of someone deeply in love yet their heart is breaking. I can't recommend any more advice other than let her read what you just wrote.......I don't see how she couldn't be moved..... Link to post Share on other sites
hotgurl Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 oh Bob. that letter just broke my heart. You are really putting it all out there. If she is still adimant(sp?) about leaving after reading that then one of you should get out of the house soon. It is not healthy to live like youa re. It can't be good for your son either especially how she has been treating him. That is so unfair. While I agree it would be te best to let your son finish his senior year there it be more benefical to him and you to do it in a seperate house than you wife. Unless she is willing to get consuling and really work on the marraige just leave. I know there are finacil reasons but you can work that out. You are just in the middle of the situation and can't see the way out. Is she still treating your son badly? Link to post Share on other sites
Sheba Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Bob It is a sad thing to bear witness to, and sadder still I know, for you who is living with this pain. I hope that you have family and friends to support you as you go through this experience. Bob, my wish for you is for this all to end, immediately, one way or the other. I can believe those who say she may be just "trying out a strategy" ...my partner's ex-wife told him regularly to leave -so he did! Then, she wanted him back. I think she always wanted him, and all that pushing to leave was merely a test of his commitment. Of course, from his point of view, he was rejected, repeatedly and needed to "save himself" from the abuse to his ego. On the other hand, when I told my own husband I was leaving, I meant it. I did leave, and I left for good. I waited until about 6 weeks before I actually moved to tell him - not wanting to torture him or myself for two long, but still to get the chance to agree on certain things. I was not cruel when I told I was going, because, really - how much more unkind could I be? It was over with fairly quickly, without dramatic and painful scenes. Bob, I hope you can move on with your life soon. Link to post Share on other sites
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