Managed Exit

[Owl]

Lily, I read what you had to say and at first I just didn't like it.

 

But then I went back and thought about it again.

 

I would agree...if someone is capable of being so focused on themselves, on their own wants that they're capable of staging an exit affair and orchestrating the divorce in their own best interests without consulting their spouse in the mix...that spouse is almost certainly better off with a quick divorce that's not drawn out any longer at all than it needs to be.

 

They're better off having that person immediately removed from their life rather than trying to fight to save the marriage or their finances.

 

Thanks for leading me down that train of thought...from that viewpoint, I can pretty much agree with your post.

[LilyBart]

I don't think that anyone is intimating that communication will change the way the spouse who chose to end the marriage feels... what they are saying is that communication between the two divorcing spouses will make the divorce less painful for both parties involved and allow them both to walk away with the heads held high, and not slink away like a weasel from a hen house once they've eaten all the eggs.

 

Here's what I don't understand and this may be an 'agree to disagree' thing. How is it LESS PAINFUL to tell the BS "I'm leaving you because I found someone else I want to be with more than you"? That's just cruel. Don't you think?

 

Isn't it better to just let the BS think the M fell apart on it's own? Two people who weren't quite compatible, who tried but didn't make it (or so the story would go) should be able to "hold their heads up high" and get on with their lives.

 

If an "other woman/other man" really loves their partner, then would they not also want this, as it will provide the best outcome for the one they say they love, and not leave them with a feeling of guilt over having gone about it the wrong way?

 

No, it DOES NOT provide the best outcome! What, to stir up drama? To ensure that the start of 'the new life' that the A/P's are supposed to have is based on the xBS flipping a lid and dragging out the D just to be spiteful?

 

The only way this scenerio wouldn't work (the managed exit) is if both A/Ps aren't in agreement with each other. For example, the MW wants to keep things quiet but the OM wants 'everyone' including the stbxH to 'know the truth' or if the MM wants to spill the beans to his stbxW in order to alleviate his "guilt" but the OW wants things to remain under the radar.

 

Like all relationships, if both parties aren't in agreement with each other, it'll cause problems.

 

What is it that other women like you are so afraid of? why are you so set against the betrayed spouse having an equal say in how the divorce proceeds... after all, isn't what is in the long term best interests of your affair partner what's important... that he/she be able to walk away from the marriage not feeling bad about how it ended and that they went about it in an honorable way?

 

Who says other women are afraid? I just don't see a need to purposely create bad feelings with the stbxW - by rubbing it into her face that her H decided he'd rather be with someone else instead of her.

 

And the D will proceed as it proceeds. Knowing about the OW isn't going to change anything for the better, except maybe making the stbxW bitter and unreasonable and stalling D proceedings. Who needs that?!

 

As far as walking away from the M 'not feeling bad' - see above. BOTH APs have to be in agreement with each other regarding "how to handle the managed exit". And you forget - if BOTH feel it should be hush-hush how can either 'feel bad' about it?

[donnamaybe]

This thread isn't about whether to tell of your AP at D time. It's whether to clue the BS in on the fact that a divorce is even HAPPENING.

 

Some folks think it's okay for one person to sock away a bunch of money, all the while knowing what's coming up, and then blindside the BS and leave them floundering.

[Owl]

So Lilybart...are you saying that you'd rather be the recipient of this "managed exit strategy than to be 'hurt' by being told the truth and given some participation in the choice to end your marriage?

 

You'd rather be lied to and have your spouse plan out their divorce in advance without your knowledge or participation than to be told the truth and given the opportunity to prepare for the end of your marriage in advance?

[Got it]

I guess I am not understanding the difference between an exit affair / managed exit.

 

I planned on leaving, I was working on the details, I met now dMM, I left the marriage, assets were divided fairly and evening and basically each walked out with what we brought in. No child support, no alimony, splitting of debt, etc.

 

Not sure what that is then. I managed it in some ways but never "stuck it to him" not at all. We had a very amicable divorce and are still amicable now.

[Mme. Chaucer]

This seems to be another in the long tradition of threads here that strive to provide labels and glorification of the destruction of the former spouse. Also, of strutting, boasting and crowing evidently eternally about having "bested" the wife and "won" the husband from her.

 

At what point would this be likely to end? I mean, you have the man - the ex wife is but a distant memory, hated and despised by her entire former family while you bask in their love and acceptance. Is this not enough for you? Why don't you just let go of all that now? Why is it still so important that everybody on the Internets knows how you WON, and she LOST? I cannot understand it.

 

I get that this OP believes that her husband's ex wife was a piece of garbage and not worthy of any kind of respect, fairness, or basic decent treatment. Personally, I cannot go there. That is a woman whom your husband, OW, chose to marry. That is the mother of his children. If she is indeed the personification of evil, which maybe she is - still, why do you spend so much time on that? Why is it any of your affair (haha) at all?

 

And why are you invested in sharing how he crapped all over her and their union in getting out of the marriage?

[Garrgoil]

Here's what I don't understand and this may be an 'agree to disagree' thing. How is it LESS PAINFUL to tell the BS "I'm leaving you because I found someone else I want to be with more than you"? That's just cruel. Don't you think?

 

If the cheating spouse was actually worried about minimizing pain to the betrayed spouse, they wouldn't have cheated in the first place. Your statement is just the rationalization cheaters use to justify continuing to lie to their betrayed spouses to cover up the cheaters' wrong doing. The lie doesn't even lessen the pain because if the betrayed spouse doesn't know the real reason for the divorce they will tend to take the blame for the marital failure unnecessarily. Besides, why do you think that nothing in life should be painful? If a cheater is that concerned about not causing pain, then don't cheat in the first place.

 

 

Isn't it better to just let the BS think the M fell apart on it's own?

 

Better for the cheater, because by lying, the cheater doesn't have to take responsibility for the failure of the marriage.

 

Two people who weren't quite compatible, who tried but didn't make it (or so the story would go) should be able to "hold their heads up high" and get on with their lives.

 

Why? The marriage failed. The betrayed spouse didn't want that outcome; the cheater did want that outcome. One person tried, the other person cheated. The cheater knows the real reason the marriage failed; the betrayed spouse doesn't. The cheater is only too happy to let the betrayed spouse take the blame.

 

 

 

No, it DOES NOT provide the best outcome! What, to stir up drama? To ensure that the start of 'the new life' that the A/P's are supposed to have is based on the xBS flipping a lid and dragging out the D just to be spiteful?

 

It's O.K. with you for the cheating spouse to cheat; to lie; and to destroy the marriage. But, it's not O.K. with you for the innocent victim to feel spite about that? Nice priorities you got there.

 

 

 

The only way this scenerio wouldn't work (the managed exit) is if both A/Ps aren't in agreement with each other. For example, the MW wants to keep things quiet but the OM wants 'everyone' including the stbxH to 'know the truth' or if the MM wants to spill the beans to his stbxW in order to alleviate his "guilt" but the OW wants things to remain under the radar.

 

Yes it's difficult to know how to maneuver when one is a liar among other liars, all struggling for maximum personal advantage. Tough. Don't cheat & lie in the first place and you won't have these kinds of problems.

 

Like all relationships, if both parties aren't in agreement with each other, it'll cause problems.

 

Esp. when the disagreement is that one spouse wants to be able to lie & cheat, and the other disagrees with that.

 

 

 

Who says other women are afraid? I just don't see a need to purposely create bad feelings with the stbxW - by rubbing it into her face that her H decided he'd rather be with someone else instead of her.

 

Then don't cheat in the first place--there'll be nothing to rub in anyone's face.

 

 

 

 

And the D will proceed as it proceeds. Knowing about the OW isn't going to change anything for the better, except maybe making the stbxW bitter and unreasonable and stalling D proceedings. Who needs that?!

 

You're right. The way to solve this problem is for the cheating husband not to cheat in the first place. Then there won't be an OW to cause bitterness in the betrayed spouse.

 

As far as walking away from the M 'not feeling bad' - see above. BOTH APs have to be in agreement with each other regarding "how to handle the managed exit". And you forget - if BOTH feel it should be hush-hush how can either 'feel bad' about it?

 

The problem with an "agreement" between two lying cheats (the Affair Partners) is that by definition their promises are worthless, even to each other. Cheaters are defined by the vows they don't keep, not the promises that they do keep.

[donnamaybe]

And why are you invested in sharing how he crapped all over her and their union in getting out of the marriage?

Perhaps to prove what a prize it is that was won?

[thissecretgirl]

One man's trash is another man's treasure.

 

I keep seeing this phrase used here and I dont really get it. If its in respect to MM who cheat and they are the 'trash' why keep them anyway? I know many BS want to work it out with their WS...surely they wouldnt if that person is just trash?

[bentnotbroken]

I keep seeing this phrase used here and I dont really get it. If its in respect to MM who cheat and they are the 'trash' why keep them anyway? I know many BS want to work it out with their WS...surely they wouldnt if that person is just trash?

 

And some of the trash gets put out where it belongs.

[donnamaybe]

I keep seeing this phrase used here and I dont really get it. If its in respect to MM who cheat and they are the 'trash' why keep them anyway? I know many BS want to work it out with their WS...surely they wouldnt if that person is just trash?

Is Dr Lecter a BS who kept the spouse after he/she cheated?

[thissecretgirl]

And some of the trash gets put out where it belongs.

 

Which one would assume would be fine then when someone else sees it as a treasure.

 

 

Is Dr Lecter a BS who kept the spouse after he/she cheated?

 

I have absolutely no idea. I asked about the phrase because Ive seen it used.

[NoIDidn't]

I just read this thread ... the situation described in the original post sounded more like a calculated, vicious "sticking it to" the wife than a "managed exit." Hiding assets - "note on the mantle" - I'm disgusted.

 

I firmly believe that if a husband or a wife is certain that he or she needs to leave a marriage, "managed" is the only correct way to do it. That means making it as equitable and as okay as possible, with maximum communication regardless of the discomfort or upheaval that entails. It's most likely to be a devastating situation. Why go to extra trouble to twist a knife?

 

I agree. The OP was definitely about screwing the BS over and not about actually just divorcing.

 

I believe people should divorce just like they married. No one wakes up and finds out they are being served a Marriage License. They should discuss it and make plans - whether one wants the divorce or not. Stealing from a spouse is against the law and truly disgusting.

 

If someone did such a "managed exit" in business, they would deservedly become known as a sleazy business person with whom no one should ever want to do business with. They lie to their partners and steal from the firm. They share business secrets that others can benefit from.

 

Wanting the exit might be a surprise, but the exit itself should not be full of subterfuge.

[OWoman]

I just read this thread ... the situation described in the original post sounded more like a calculated, vicious "sticking it to" the wife than a "managed exit." Hiding assets - "note on the mantle" - I'm disgusted.

 

 

 

I agree. The OP was definitely about screwing the BS over and not about actually just divorcing.

 

I was intrigued by these accusations, so went back and reread my OP, since I definitely didn't recall posting anything about "hiding assets" or "screwing the BS over". And - as I expected - I hadn't:

 

Mention was made on another thread about a MM planning a "managed exit" and another poster pooh-poohed that idea. IME, the "managed exit" is the BS's worst nightmare - depriving them of what little control they may feel they have after a DDay, or - if there is no DDay - reducing at least some of their history to "lies" or fakery.

 

My H left his xW through a "managed exit", and several other MMs that I've known who have left their BWs for their OWs (and stayed with the OWs - not an "exit A" ) have done the same - including my father. I've always argued that MMs don't leave (sustainably) until they're ready to leave, and the "managed exit" seems to me to be the epitome of that. All their ducks in a row, then... Goodbye. In some cases, they say nothing to the BS before they leave - the proverbial note on the mantlepiece scenario - and in others, they advise the BS they will be leaving, and when, and then do so.

 

I'd be interested to hear whether anyone has had different experiences of a "managed exit" - a WS who left through a "managed exit" but didn't sustain it and returned, say... or an AP who "returned to sender" the WS who had left, no longer interested given the time elapsed... or whatever. From whichever role in the episode.

 

So I'm really not sure which OP either of those posters were reading or responding to, but it clearly wasn't mine.

 

I cited two examples of MMs that I know personally (and very closely) who left through "managed exits" - my H and my father - and neither of those involve "hiding assets" or "screwing the BS" and I resent the insinuation that they did, or that I endorsed that.

 

This thread was intended as a general discussion of whether "managed exits" lead to sustainable exits, given that they allow the WS to get their ducks in a row before leaving, and instead it's been turned into a mudslinging brawl featuring all manner of OFF-TOPIC personal attacks and venomous insinuations that

 

• "managed exits" necessarily mean cheating the BS out of marital assets
  
• my H cheated his xW out of any marital assets
  
• I in any way condone cheating ANY spouse - whether BS or WS - out of assets during a D
  
• that OWs as a group endorse "screwing the BS" during a D
  
• that this thread was intended as some kind of personal trouncing of my H's xW
  

 

and any number of other groundless accusations based on nothing more than the respective poster's own personal projections. Enough, already!

 

I believe people should divorce just like they married. No one wakes up and finds out they are being served a Marriage License. They should discuss it and make plans - whether one wants the divorce or not. Stealing from a spouse is against the law and truly disgusting.

 

Again, I ask, where did you see this endorsed? Certainly not by me. My H has never stolen from his xW. His D settlement was beyond generous - and far more than that recommended by either his OR her solicitor. She got all she was due - and then some. And, while he qualified for ongoing child support *and* spousal support payments from her, he chose not to take those. Stealing? Evidence, please!

 

If someone did such a "managed exit" in business' date=' they would deservedly become known as a sleazy business person with whom no one should ever want to do business with. They lie to their partners and steal from the firm. They share business secrets that others can benefit from.[/quote']

 

"Managed exits" of the kind I described are very common in business. No stealing involved. No "sleaze" involved. But a lot of homework done in advance in terms of options, alternatives, next steps - and a lot of thinking and making sure that that is what one wants to do before one communicates that to one's partner/s. In fact, I'd be very surprised if anyone DIDN'T do that - jumping ship without doing the groundwork sounds like very bad business sense to me!

 

Wanting the exit might be a surprise' date=' but the exit itself should not be full of subterfuge.[/quote']

 

Whoever said it had to be?