I'm attracted to the wrong type of guy :/

[Eddie Edirol]

Basically, unable to create emotional intimacy. They lack empathy. Don't want to talk through problem or feelings. Things are black and white, using logic instead of listening.

 

Example: my last boyfriend told me when I was sad: "I don't get sad because it's not productive!"

 

have you tried talking to them about your problems their way, through logic instead of feelings? Did you let them try to solve the problem instead of venting to them?

[Mrlonelyone]

I am an ENTP.

 

As for men who are Odd idea men who lack empathy. I am almost such a person myself. Like Nexus one said you have to let them know what you want. Because even though an ENTP is supposed to be able to intuitively see past peoples BS to what they really feel... that does not make one psychic.

 

Don't expect your man to be a psychic.

[Alma Mobley]

I am an ENTP.

 

As for men who are Odd idea men who lack empathy. I am almost such a person myself. Like Nexus one said you have to let them know what you want. Because even though an ENTP is supposed to be able to intuitively see past peoples BS to what they really feel... that does not make one psychic.

 

Don't expect your man to be a psychic.

 

I love Nexus One but I will never advocate that a man or woman get involved with someone who lacks empathy. Nexus seems to be coming from a different place and a different point of view, which is great and often helpful, but I think he is wrong in this regard. If a person seems to lack empathy in general, I always advocate to cut that one loose.

 

I also despise this "Well, a man thinks..." because it is not even close to universally true and is mostly a harmful stereotype as well.

[Mrlonelyone]

That's the thing Alma. I don't lack empathy...but I am allot like the men she describes in terms of being thinking and kind of unconventional.

 

The thing is such a man needs to be told that a woman wants empathy. Assuming they are typically male identified part of a mans gender role is to be kinda ... stoic. They have it in their heads, drilled in since they were little, that boys don't cry.

 

Now I for one am bigendered and cry if the spirit moves me to. So I am empathetic.

 

The thing is the average guy is socialized not to show that side of himself lest he be called a sissy. There are plenty of women who hold that point of view.

[Alma Mobley]

MrLonely, what good is it serving to say that men in general lack empathy? That they are stoic? That this is the way it is? That they cannot cry?

 

Harmful stereotypes, no?

 

BTW, I am not interested in what the "average" man thinks in the same way I am not interested in what the "average woman" thinks or even what the "average American" thinks.

 

I am interested in what my partner thinks and of course then the empathy... the rest? That is politics.

[pandagirl]

Leads with logic. Not sensitive to others.

Can be fun but manipulative. Not sensitive to others.

Energetic, charming and fun. Won't necessarily stick around if the next best thing comes along. Can be both sensitive and insensitive to others.

That or INFJ would have been my guesses.

 

Have you ever seen this?

 

Yup, all those brief descriptions describe the guys I've dated, respectively. Now, these men I dated were not bad guys, but it's like when things got tough, they couldn't deal with it.

 

Or maybe I'm needy?

 

At any rate, in terms of your problem, I'd say that emotional intimacy is kind of tricky. When you say these guys "can't" --- do you have any real idea that they can't, or they just haven't with you. I mean, I'm definitely capable of emotional intimacy, but I definitely haven't been able to engage in it with every guy I've dated. And it takes me a long time to figure out if I can sometimes.

 

I don't think these men are soul-less. Not at all. They had feelings. But, take for instance my last ex, who was in love with me, wanted a future with me, yet whenever I wanted to talk about something important, he'd just get frustrated and shutdown. He'd "communicate" with me, but it never went beyond a few sentences back and forth, before he was ready to close the case and move on.

 

A sidenote: the only REAL emotion I ever saw him show was when he was angry or frustration. He could get REALLY angry.

 

I find that men who love animals and/or kids generally have a good deal of empathy and emotional potential. (Which is not to say those that don't will not, but those are just some easy signs.) You can also see based on how many good friends they have and how their relationships are with their family. However, for many men, emotional intimacy within a relationship takes trust and time to build. Men fear getting hurt in relationships almost more deeply than women, I've found----particularly the good ones.

 

I need to be more careful of this. My last ex had a tenuous relationship with his father, and barely talked to his mother. He also seemed to have a lot of friends, but none of them close. I think *most* human being want emotional intimacy, however he didn't seem to need or necessarily crave emotional intimacy beyond a certain level.

[Mrlonelyone]

You want to know why men in this culture can be so stoic and lacking empathy? The culture is the reason.

 

Your men will have had many women discount their manhood if they were crying or showing emotions beyond anger. Trust me I know how our culture takes displays of emotions by male bodied people and denigrates those who do.

[zengirl]

I don't think these men are soul-less. Not at all. They had feelings. But, take for instance my last ex, who was in love with me, wanted a future with me, yet whenever I wanted to talk about something important, he'd just get frustrated and shutdown. He'd "communicate" with me, but it never went beyond a few sentences back and forth, before he was ready to close the case and move on.

 

A sidenote: the only REAL emotion I ever saw him show was when he was angry or frustration. He could get REALLY angry.

 

Okay, well, that's a different ball of wax for me than "Lacks empathy." That's more like "Has trouble channelling his emotions in a positive way." Well, that's a problem many men have, because of the poor socialization and views towards male emotions. I would say it takes two to create that dynamic, but I understand that maybe it is one more than the other.

 

Would you describe yourself as someone who needs A LOT of emotional communication (more than usual)?

 

It all depends. I couldn't personally be with a person whose anger was stronger than their joy. To me, happiness is a potent emotion as well, and I cannot be with men who cannot feel it fully. But I don't need a lot of emotional communication. I tend towards using physical affection to express love and devotion, which seems to be common among men as well, so I wonder if the issue is you are dating men who are generally angry/frustrated or if it is just that they are not expressing loving, mushy type feelings? There are definitely guys out there who are sentimental. I've met them, and they ain't for me. But I don't think it's quite correct to confuse a lack of sentimentality for a lack of caring or empathy.

 

I need to be more careful of this. My last ex had a tenuous relationship with his father, and barely talked to his mother. He also seemed to have a lot of friends, but none of them close. I think *most* human being want emotional intimacy, however he didn't seem to need or necessarily crave emotional intimacy beyond a certain level.

 

It sounds as though he did have trouble connecting with people and forming bonds. A lot of times women are attracted to those men because it's attractive to think you'd be the "closest" person or one of the "chosen few" to get close. I think healthy people have boundaries, so they don't let people in right away, but they also maintain close relationships with people (friends, family, etc) that last a long time, so if someone had no support system in that way, I'd watch out.

[Alma Mobley]

You want to know why men in this culture can be so stoic and lacking empathy? The culture is the reason.

 

Your men will have had many women discount their manhood if they were crying or showing emotions beyond anger. Trust me I know how our culture takes displays of emotions by male bodied people and denigrates those who do.

 

I disagree.

 

Women should dump any man who shows lack of empathy or treats her like she is less than human, period.

[Mrlonelyone]

I agree with that.. Men should be freeer to show emotions than they feel that they are. Look back at the thread about men crying and what women think of men who do to see what I mean.

 

____

I just took OKC's MB personality type test It says I'm a INTP "Looser". "You value knowledge above all else" The ENTP is a "Prick" Everyone loves to hate you because you love to argue". I prefer what one website said about the ENTP "Visionary" LOL.

 

That's me folks take it or leave it.

[Alma Mobley]

Maybe I just simply can't relate to that. I dumped any man who showed a lack of handling emotions.

 

Naturally, I got together with a man who wrote poetry, songs, and music and talked about art with me. He didn't give a sht about what anyone thought about it either.

[pandagirl]

Would you describe yourself as someone who needs A LOT of emotional communication (more than usual)?

 

I would say I am an emotional person, but with the right people surrounding me -- romantic or platonic -- I don't need a lot of emotional communication, because I already feel secure.

 

I tend towards using physical affection to express love and devotion, which seems to be common among men as well, so I wonder if the issue is you are dating men who are generally angry/frustrated or if it is just that they are not expressing loving, mushy type feelings? There are definitely guys out there who are sentimental. I've met them, and they ain't for me. But I don't think it's quite correct to confuse a lack of sentimentality for a lack of caring or empathy.

 

No, I'm not a mushy, sentimental person. I like thoughtful people though, but I would rather have it played out in actions -- doing something nice for me. I *know* my ex really loved me, and because he constantly told me, I assumed, incorrectly, that his love came with certain conditions -- but they didn't. We had different views of it.

 

I have cultivated friendships for over 20 years. I'm a really good friend and listener. I'm patient. These are my general ideas of a loving relationship. However, because he did not have these same experiences as me, his view of relationship were just more... simple and base. I'm not saying that is wrong, but knowing about his parents relationship (they are divorced) and his upbringing, he did not develop meaningful relationship from a young age. He learned to keep his distance.

 

It sounds as though he did have trouble connecting with people and forming bonds. A lot of times women are attracted to those men because it's attractive to think you'd be the "closest" person or one of the "chosen few" to get close. I think healthy people have boundaries, so they don't let people in right away, but they also maintain close relationships with people (friends, family, etc) that last a long time, so if someone had no support system in that way, I'd watch out.

 

My ex had no support system really. It was probably by choice. He was very independent, was always that way as a child. Although, when we started dating, I immediately became the closet person to him, despite only having known him a short amount of time.

 

A good example is, when he moved away, I asked him if he wanted to have a going away party. He said he didn't, and in fact, he didn't even notify any of his friend the he even WAS moving!

Edited March 28, 2011 by pandagirl

[zengirl]

No, I'm not a mushy, sentimental person. I like thoughtful people though, but I would rather have it played out in actions -- doing something nice for me. I *know* my ex really loved me, and because he constantly told me, I assumed, incorrectly, that his love came with certain conditions -- but they didn't. We had different views of it.

 

I have cultivated friendships for over 20 years. I'm a really good friend and listener. I'm patient. These are my general ideas of a loving relationship. However, because he did not have these same experiences as me, his view of relationship were just more... simple and base. I'm not saying that is wrong, but knowing about his parents relationship (they are divorced) and his upbringing, he did not develop meaningful relationship from a young age. He learned to keep his distance.

 

What was his view of a relationship?

 

The idea of "the unemotional male" is just such a broad one. I'm trying to get a good view of the type of man you mean. At first, I thought it was perhaps a cruel man (lacking in empathy = cruel) and then just a quiet sort. Now, I really don't know.

 

If you continually pick men who don't connect to others, I'd say it's some sort of emotional unavailability (romantically) in YOU that drives you to them or some need to "fix" them, but that's not based on specifics of your situation really, just the rather cliche, most likely reasons that occurs.

 

My ex had no support system really. It was probably by choice. He was very independent, was always that way as a child. Although, when we started dating, I immediately became the closet person to him, despite only having known him a short amount of time.

 

I think that --- closest person in a short amount of time --- though appealing to many, is actually a warning sign.

[pandagirl]

What was his view of a relationship?

 

The idea of "the unemotional male" is just such a broad one. I'm trying to get a good view of the type of man you mean. At first, I thought it was perhaps a cruel man (lacking in empathy = cruel) and then just a quiet sort. Now, I really don't know.

 

If you continually pick men who don't connect to others, I'd say it's some sort of emotional unavailability (romantically) in YOU that drives you to them or some need to "fix" them, but that's not based on specifics of your situation really, just the rather cliche, most likely reasons that occurs.

 

No, not cruel! It is more that I pick men who don't connect to others, which, yes, means perhaps I am emotional unavailable. I don't think I pick "fixers." These men from the onset seem to have it all together. Or maybe not. Maybe there is something in my subconscious that picks these men intentionally.

 

I am just so attracted to these men, because they have these great, big, powerful personalities, that I overlook the red flags. I'm so stimulated intellectually and enamored, that maybe I just choose ignore other things. It's almost like dating a great, egotistical artist.

 

I think that --- closest person in a short amount of time --- though appealing to many, is actually a warning sign.

 

He became intensely attached to me very quickly. It was a red flag for me, and I kept my distance at first, but after a few months, I did eventually succumb to everything he was saying and doing.

[SxB]

I am always drawn to the wrong type of guy and I'm starting to feel defective for it. No, I don't like jerks or players. I do like genuinely nice men, but in addition to that, the issue is that I am highly attracted to very strong personalities--guys that are somewhat weird, or quirky, eccentric, a little strange, etc. Men with dominating personalities who are often very cerebral with great minds and ideas.

 

These type of men tend to inspire me and stimulate me both emotionally and intellectually, which is how I always get suckered in. However, it never works out because... Well, they are indeed strange creatures, and though

they are quite brilliant, they end up lacking in the emotional department, probably because they are too self-centered!

 

Can I undo this? Why do I put such an emphasis on this criteria?

 

Emotional compatibility is based off how well you understand each other, not whether or not you both like sky diving, not whether or not you both agree on every single opinion, view, belief, etcetera.

 

Weird and eccentric are horrible things to try and connect with some one on, especially given your needs to require a man to come off as more warming in your perception, and do you want to know why? Weird and eccentric are things we don't understand, because then otherwise if we do understand something then it's no longer weird nor eccentric to us.

 

So try to locate and identify other things you are compatible with men on, things that actually make sense to you, and that you do understand. So in closing, if you don't want understanding then don't expect to have much of a connection with anyone, especially not the close and warm one you seek.

 

Edit, to add, the only other way you can still carry on with men of this behavior is if you find a way to cope with not understanding them in certain ways.

Edited March 28, 2011 by SxB

[Kamille]

Oh! For some reason I thought you were an IFNJ like me, Panda.

 

When it comes to picking men though, I feel like I have gone down your same path. Ex and exex were two men who were extremely strong-willed and who deeply believed they were in touch with a more rational understanding of the world than the rest of us.

 

I struggle to explain why I was drawn to them though. They both chased me, and, to be honest, I think it was their confidence that charmed me. I was struggling with dating-related anxieties and I would only allow myself to fall for men who seemed to have the strenght of their convictions, as both these men did. They were strong, they were confident, they were convincing.

 

Current bf is very different, and that probably has a lot to do with the fact that I worked hard on not needing so much security from the guys I was dating early on. I wasn't looking for the same strenght of character, because I didn't need it anymore.

 

Don't know if my reflection will help, but I thought I would share.

[Cee]

My best friend and boyfriend are INTJs. They are both highly intelligent, decent, giving, and loyal people. They operate on the intellect, but that doesn't mean they don't have feelings. Although I almost never see them express a feeling unless it's incredulity at the stupidity they see around them. They don't say, "I feel," but they express emotion through laughter, annoyance, love, hate.

 

I judge them on how they treat me, which is amazing.

 

These two are total softies in the matter of the heart. I've seen my best friend fall head over heels, although his girlfriends struggle with his consistently logical viewpoint.

 

I confess that communicating with my boyfriend can be hard on the feeling level, but we joke about it. And he's willing to listen and has self-understanding, which is good. I'm a feeling type which has it's own drawbacks. Feeling types tend to think their feelings are facts. They aren't - they are passing moods that are no more/less valid than thoughts and opinions.

 

Another trick I've learned is to express feelings in a gentle way. I can talk about my feelings with detachment without getting over the top emotional in the moment. I also like to discuss my feelings after I have some time to let them settle.

[zengirl]

I am just so attracted to these men, because they have these great, big, powerful personalities, that I overlook the red flags. I'm so stimulated intellectually and enamored, that maybe I just choose ignore other things. It's almost like dating a great, egotistical artist.

 

Interesting. I know some men who are VERY feeling who have powerful personalities as well, so I don't think that denotes a lack of feeling in general (as though they always go together). I do think that men who "chase" more are less likely to be emotionally connected. Chasing someone isn't showing you want to connect to them; it's showing you want to win them. This is not to say that all men who are assertive and give attention are "chasing" though. The best way to find a man who can communicate his emotions (if we're not talking about sentimentality, which is just a personality trait, but simply healthy, emotional communication and processing) is to discuss relationships in the beginning. It's so tempting to look for compatibility in the "fun" ways, but the best relationships I've had have had some discussion of expectations in a relationship --- what people are looking for, what they want to feel, etc --- early on. If he can connect emotionally during those conversations, even to his own hopes and fears, then you've found a connected man. And one who knows what he wants and what he feels and who he is.

 

He became intensely attached to me very quickly. It was a red flag for me, and I kept my distance at first, but after a few months, I did eventually succumb to everything he was saying and doing.

 

Yeah, initial intensity has never been a good sign for me.

[pandagirl]

Oh! For some reason I thought you were an IFNJ like me, Panda.

 

I always test as an INFP, however my P barely outweighs my J, so I'm more equal on that end.

 

 

When it comes to picking men though, I feel like I have gone down your same path. Ex and exex were two men who were extremely strong-willed and who deeply believed they were in touch with a more rational understanding of the world than the rest of us.

 

I struggle to explain why I was drawn to them though. They both chased me, and, to be honest, I think it was their confidence that charmed me. I was struggling with dating-related anxieties and I would only allow myself to fall for men who seemed to have the strenght of their convictions, as both these men did. They were strong, they were confident, they were convincing.

 

Maybe this is part of it. These men did chase me, especially my most recent ex, who was so infatuated with me from the get go, proclaiming his love for me early on and thought I was everything he ever wanted. Confident and very convincing.

 

What changes did you make in yourself to lead you into your more healthier present relationship?

[threebyfate]

Yup, all those brief descriptions describe the guys I've dated, respectively. Now, these men I dated were not bad guys, but it's like when things got tough, they couldn't deal with it.

 

Or maybe I'm needy?

Instead of viewing differences in a good or bad way, why not accept them as differences?

 

Based on your MBTI type, you lead using an emotion/value based decision maker. The men you're attracted to, use either introverted or extroverted objective/subjective thinking decision makers.

 

Why would you feel they need to be as strong as you in your strength? Do you believe yourself to be as strong as they are, within their realms of expertise?

 

Another way to view this is, if you need more emotional input or strength, consider the types suggested in the link I gave you earlier, which are ENFJ or ESFJ. Both these types also lead with emotion/value based decision makers.

[welikeincrowds]

Ooh, type me next!

 

I really question the usefulness of MBTI for anything but career placement, and even then.

 

That is, I do think it can be helpful as a touchstone for mitigating differences in worldviews, which is a nice way for people to learn about and be more accepting of others. I have trouble with the implication of using it to find a "match," though.

[threebyfate]

http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes1.htm

 

Type yourself and then post it here. This is less about externally observed behaviour than preferential internal brain processes. When selecting responses, don't respond in how you would prefer yourself to be, rather how you honestly are on a relatively consistent basis.

[Kamille]

 

 

What changes did you make in yourself to lead you into your more healthier present relationship?

 

Tough question. I remember that by the time I met bf, I was a very happy single. I had made the usual promise to myself that I would only let someone in my life if they enriched it. But there was something else: I had also decided that I wasn't going to rush into the next relationship. And that was the tough part for me, the part where I had to fight my own fears and insecurities.

 

My last two relationships had been with men who had come on strong and who had professed their love to me within 3 weeks of getting together. While one of those relationships lasted close to 3 years, we struggled with many issues. With hindsight, I have come to think our biggest issue was that we put too much pressure on ourselves too soon. We never really had time to establish a proper communication style, and a middle ground for us. Turns out, communication styles are hard to negotiate once you're already moved in together.

 

Granted, things wouldn't have worked at all with ex and exex had I decided I wanted to take things slow with them. They also needed someone who was going to be committed to them 100% in a matter of weeks. My dysfunctions matched their dysfunctions.

 

So before I met bf, I was determined not to rush things. I was determined to stand firm on my boundaries. I was determined to make sure I knew we could communicate well before I gave my heart away.

 

It's probably pure luck that that's when I met bf. Bf is amazing at communication. He's easy to talk to, he always remains calm, he prioritizes good communication over whatever issue we might have, he never holds anything against me, etc.

 

But, at the same time, had I not reflected on my own need for instant commitment, I might have dumped boyfriend (and I nearly did). He was super busy at work, and that triggered anxieties for me. He could go days without getting in touch when he was in a crunch time. And at first, of course, he wouldn't give a girl he was just dating fair warning that he had a deadline coming up. To me, it felt like he would suddenly disappear, and I would start to question his interest.

 

The thing is, however, that his work made it impossible to rush things. Since I had decided myself I didn't want to rush, I had to find other things to do. I focused on staying balanced, not getting too anxious, having my own life. So in a weird strange way, in this case, his work habits helped me overcome some of my dysfunctions.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Ooh, type me next!

 

I really question the usefulness of MBTI for anything but career placement, and even then.

 

That is, I do think it can be helpful as a touchstone for mitigating differences in worldviews, which is a nice way for people to learn about and be more accepting of others. I have trouble with the implication of using it to find a "match," though.

 

You are INTP or INFP (actually I am only really sure about I and N)

[Mme. Chaucer]

I am always drawn to the wrong type of guy and I'm starting to feel defective for it. No, I don't like jerks or players. I do like genuinely nice men, but in addition to that, the issue is that I am highly attracted to very strong personalities--guys that are somewhat weird, or quirky, eccentric, a little strange, etc. Men with dominating personalities who are often very cerebral with great minds and ideas.

 

These type of men tend to inspire me and stimulate me both emotionally and intellectually, which is how I always get suckered in. However, it never works out because... Well, they are indeed strange creatures, and though

they are quite brilliant, they end up lacking in the emotional department, probably because they are too self-centered!

 

Can I undo this? Why do I put such an emphasis on this criteria?

 

I'm not into the whole MB thing ... but here's what I think about your situation.

 

I believe you are using faulty logic in your OP.

 

The type of men that you like DO NOT necessarily have to be "lacking in the emotional department." Certainly, some of them are, but the qualities that you stated you like and being emotionally available do not need to be mutually exclusive.

 

I propose that, for some reason, you actually are picking emotionally unavailable guys.

 

Caveat: Some women seem to expect a level of "emotional availability" that is not realistic for most men, or for most people in general. I am not saying that I think you are one of them.

 

So, you might want to consider that you may be seeking emotionally unavailable men, for some reason. Self-protection? Maybe what you're used to from your family of origin?

 

By the way, I just tested myself for fun - turns out I am INFP today.