When is a cheater no longer a cheater?

[OWoman]

:laugh: I know. Really. By the time the married jerk leaves for the other woman the wife has normally had enough and happily says omg you can have him, he is all yours now.

 

Interesting idea. This thread suggests otherwise. And it's pretty similar to the way my H's xW responded to his leaving, too - I've seen the email exchanges, the letters, the text messages.

[donnamaybe]

Interesting idea. This thread suggests otherwise. And it's pretty similar to the way my H's xW responded to his leaving, too - I've seen the email exchanges, the letters, the text messages.

That's why she said "normally."

[jthorne]

That's why she said "normally."

Indeed! That poster is early in the discovery phase. By the time it's over, she may be begging the OW to take him.

 

There's another poster who was in a similar situation in the begining, but just updated that she is divorcing and has discovered it's the best thing she could have done.

[greengoddess]

Interesting idea. This thread suggests otherwise. And it's pretty similar to the way my H's xW responded to his leaving, too - I've seen the email exchanges, the letters, the text messages.

 

That wasn't very nice posting that link. Especially knowing how you feel about your husbands exwife and how often you demean her on here. That person is really in pain and you are taking pleasure in using her situation to prove a point.

 

I certainly did not say always. Your point was not proven but you have managed to say a lot about who you are and what kind of compassion for people you may have.

[greengoddess]

Indeed! That poster is early in the discovery phase. By the time it's over, she may be begging the OW to take him.

 

There's another poster who was in a similar situation in the begining, but just updated that she is divorcing and has discovered it's the best thing she could have done.

 

 

Very true!! It's nice to see a happy update like that.

[donnamaybe]

Your point was not proven but you have managed to say a lot about who you are and what kind of compassion for people you may have.

That was the first thought that struck me when I read that post.

[Snowflower]

Interesting idea. This thread suggests otherwise. And it's pretty similar to the way my H's xW responded to his leaving, too - I've seen the email exchanges, the letters, the text messages.

 

I'm really surprised that the thread indicated above is used as a perfect example of a classic bitter, manipulative BW.

 

That poster is in great pain and seems rather fragile. She is way too early in the process to have any so-called "bitterness."

 

It's interesting to me that a desperate BW who is (at this point) trying to keep her marriage and life together is considered wrong somehow. I think she needs to drop-kick her cheating husband to the curb but she isn't ready to do that.

 

There have been a few threads/posters here in my years on LS which have really troubled me, as in they might do harm to themselves. That particular thread has me concerned. A little compassion...

[Silly_Girl]

In reality, it has no place in this thread if you think about it. Bored much? I mean shoot there are people that in less than a few weeks post on the net more than 3/4 of what I have in 4yrs. That must be cheating their employer of some valuable work time, no?

 

Or are the ones who aren't banned?!

 

cheating must be contagious and comes in different forms, or something...

 

I think gg pretty much said that already Mimo, and ended up apologising

 

To think about it, I need to get this notch on my belt. I have never cheated (romantically) that is. I'm going to try it once I am in a solid relationship, I want to meet "amazing" too, but I am too busy. No, for real.

 

I honestly wouldn't recommend it. I'm sad for you that you feel that way.

[OWoman]

I'm really surprised that the thread indicated above is used as a perfect example of a classic bitter, manipulative BW.

 

That wasn't what I claimed. I took issue with this claim:

 

:laugh: I know. Really. By the time the married jerk leaves for the other woman the wife has normally had enough and happily says omg you can have him, he is all yours now.

 

which did not resonate with my experience at all, or what I've seen on these boards recently, as I posted:

 

Interesting idea. This thread suggests otherwise. And it's pretty similar to the way my H's xW responded to his leaving, too - I've seen the email exchanges, the letters, the text messages.

 

nowhere did I claim that that BS was bitter. I don't think she is - at least, not yet; whether or not she becomes bitter down the line is unknowable at this stage.

 

I also don't support the claim that the BS is "always called bitter". Certainly my H never referred to his xW in those terms, and none of the MMs I've been involved with spoke of their Ws thus (if they mentioned them at all, which most did not).

[OWoman]

Your point was not proven

 

on the contrary. Two examples vs none. I'd say that's pretty conclusive, in the absence of any other evidence.

[donnamaybe]

none.

Spark, for one, and that's just off the top of my head. I know there are others. I'm just not obsessed enough to seek them out.

[bentnotbroken]

That wasn't what I claimed. I took issue with this claim:

 

 

 

which did not resonate with my experience at all, or what I've seen on these boards recently, as I posted:

 

 

 

nowhere did I claim that that BS was bitter. I don't think she is - at least, not yet; whether or not she becomes bitter down the line is unknowable at this stage.

 

I also don't support the claim that the BS is "always called bitter". Certainly my H never referred to his xW in those terms, and none of the MMs I've been involved with spoke of their Ws thus (if they mentioned them at all, which most did not).

 

 

Then you wouldn't know one way or the other where those men are concerned.

[donnamaybe]

Okay. I AM obsessed enough to start a thread asking about it.

[Snowflower]

That wasn't what I claimed. I took issue with this claim:

 

 

 

which did not resonate with my experience at all, or what I've seen on these boards recently, as I posted:

 

 

 

nowhere did I claim that that BS was bitter. I don't think she is - at least, not yet; whether or not she becomes bitter down the line is unknowable at this stage.

 

I also don't support the claim that the BS is "always called bitter". Certainly my H never referred to his xW in those terms, and none of the MMs I've been involved with spoke of their Ws thus (if they mentioned them at all, which most did not).

 

OWoman, I mixed up the threads/posts and now realize you didn't say anything about bitterness at all. I apologize. That's what I get for reading these threads on my little phone screen and my eyes get crossed. :o

[Silly_Girl]

Okay. I AM obsessed enough to start a thread asking about it.

 

My bf's wife said 'if that's what will make you happy'...

 

And that changed to 'mum is not going to cope well with this, she'll probably fall ill and if she dies it will be your fault'

 

And then... 'you can't leave me at this age, it's the worst age to be left, I have nothing and no one. Why would you abandon me?'

 

And then... 'you'll never cope, you can't function on your own, you don't know how to look after yourself, I only came back to you because I knew you couldn't have a decent life without me'.

 

And... 'NOW you leave, now I can't have children... how selfish...'

 

And so much more. I suspect that a LOT of betrayed spouses tell their other half to eff off. And I also think a hell of a lot of other things get said, Donna, and you are oversimplifying.

[donnamaybe]

Okay. I AM obsessed enough to start a thread asking about it.

And the number is rapidly rising....

[Mme. Chaucer]

OWoman, I mixed up the threads/posts and now realize you didn't say anything about bitterness at all. I apologize. That's what I get for reading these threads on my little phone screen and my eyes get crossed. :o

 

Still, I found the use of that person's thread to make OWoman's point to be a bad move, especially with the comparison to her husband's ex wife, who is frequently trashed on these boards. I hope that devastated woman doesn't get over here while she's in the midst of her pain.

[silktricks]

:laugh: I know. Really. By the time the married jerk leaves for the other woman the wife has normally had enough and happily says omg you can have him, he is all yours now. Bs's are always called bitter but honestly I don't see it. I think the mm always has to paint the wife as the "bitter" one to make himself feel better about leaving.

 

Since this post created a lot of discussion, I'm going to put in my 2 cents as well...

 

I think many times the BS does say - go and be with the one you love... but, I don't think it's for the reason stated. I don't think it's because she's "had enough". I think many BW who say this actually say it out of love for their husband. They want him to have what he wants, and it seems obvious to them that what their husbands want is no longer themselves. And of course, the other end is that they in that blink of an eye of discovery realize that they do not want to spend one more SECOND in his presence!! :rolleyes:I also think that usually if a BS does say this, then she says it right out of the gate - on D-Day. Not after she's "had enough" of the angst post D-Day. Whether or not this is the "normal" response, I don't know.

 

I do agree that if an mm is painting his wife as bitter, or cold, or unloving or whatever, that it is often (not always, but often) to make himself feel better - whether it be about leaving or simply having the affair in the 1st place.

 

JMO

[seren]

In answer to the question When is a cheater no longer a cheater? I would say that whilest the A was ongoing the MP is cheating, so is a cheater. After D Day and if there is NC, then they are no longer a cheater but someone who cheated. Personally, I don't hold it over his head like the Sword of Damocles, it is a part of our relationship history, but a very small part given the rest. Granted the after effects have repercussions, but if I cannot change what was, why obsess over it, that's my take anyway.

 

I am always taken aback at the use of the word bitter to describe when someone has been hurt by the person they loved and trusted. Yes there will be resentment which I know is often used instead of the word bitter, but the connotations here are often that the BS shouldn't have any feelings either way.

[fooled once]

Well, if this board is any indication, the WH's of reconciled M's are no longer cheaters, they were just "sick" and "came to their senses".

 

Wow. I think many women on here who have recovered their marriage would disagree with you. I find your comments hurtful to those that have worked so hard to rebuild a marriage.

 

I think it's been touched on here, but what about the possibility that cheating once actually makes some people LESS likely to cheat in the future? At this moment I can safely say this is the case for me.

 

I never thought I'd cheat because it was 'wrong' and would 'hurt' other people. But it's hard to imagine this when they're still happy (not knowing what's really happening behind their backs) and you're having a great time with someone else.

 

However, once you see the actual devastation that the discovery of an affair can cause - and you see someone (either the person you still loved, or someone you once loved) fall apart, become mistrusting to everyone watch their self-esteem disappear, I think it's that visible image that would now stop me cheating on my OH. Not what I know is 'right' or 'wrong' but the consequences I've actually seen for myself.

 

If I hadn't cheated and seen the effect it can have, the thought of cheating would not have the same impact on me it does now.

 

Tash, thank you for sharing this. That is a different perspective and I appreciate reading your opinion. For some people, I think this is spot on. Many times you hear people say - with regards to many events in their life - that it took a pretty significant hurt to open a person's eyes.

 

I'm really surprised that the thread indicated above is used as a perfect example of a classic bitter, manipulative BW.

 

That poster is in great pain and seems rather fragile. She is way too early in the process to have any so-called "bitterness."

 

It's interesting to me that a desperate BW who is (at this point) trying to keep her marriage and life together is considered wrong somehow. I think she needs to drop-kick her cheating husband to the curb but she isn't ready to do that.

 

There have been a few threads/posters here in my years on LS which have really troubled me, as in they might do harm to themselves. That particular thread has me concerned. A little compassion...

 

I was very sad reading that post. I think her post is just so sad and I feel hurt for her. A 20 year marriage is almost a rarity these days. And to find out that her H was cheating I can image how her world was rocked. She has grown up with this man, she has invested so much of HER in this man and I don't think any person gets to come and say "what a bitter woman. why doesn't she just let go?" I am NOT saying anyone did say that, but many times that is what is so stereotypical of AP's to think/say. I guess I will never understand how someone gets to decide someone elses life and hurt, as in how much they should hurt, how they should have done xyz to keep their spouse happy, how they mistreated their spouse and got what they deserved, etc. No one deserves to be betrayed. NO ONE.

 

Still, I found the use of that person's thread to make OWoman's point to be a bad move, especially with the comparison to her husband's ex wife, who is frequently trashed on these boards. I hope that devastated woman doesn't get over here while she's in the midst of her pain.

 

me too

 

I do agree that if an mm is painting his wife as bitter, or cold, or unloving or whatever, that it is often (not always, but often) to make himself feel better - whether it be about leaving or simply having the affair in the 1st place.

 

JMO

 

I agree silk. To me, it shows the character of the person who is saying such mean and hurtful things about their spouse. And again, if they were so unhappy, why not divorce? Why cheat? I also get frustrated when you see the AP post over and over about how mean the wife was and how she got what she deserved and she was an idiot for not knowing he was cheating. What AP's fail to realize is that they only have 1 side of the story of the marriage. I guarantee you that the cheaters aren't vocalizing what poop heads they were to their spouse, how cruel they were, how disrespecting they were. No, they make themselves out to be such victims. As if they had NO OTHER CHOICE but to cheat. That is ridiculous and pitiful IMHO. AP's have no true knowledge of the marriage and what happened as they were NOT there, period.

[White Flower]

That was a little random (the bolded part). Has anyone on this thread claimed that they are?

 

One thing we don't have to argue: everyone who cheats IS a cheater.

 

So...if you overate at a party does that make an an 'overeater'? An overeater for life? Not necessarily.

[whichwayisup]

So...if you overate at a party does that make an an 'overeater'? An overeater for life? Not necessarily.

 

I need to get my eyes checked as I thought you said anteater!

 

Actually it could be (not anteater but overeater) if the person has obesity problems, even if thinner and lost weight. Some people turn to food like others turn to drinks and drugs.

[wheelwright]

In answer to the question When is a cheater no longer a cheater? I would say that whilest the A was ongoing the MP is cheating, so is a cheater. After D Day and if there is NC, then they are no longer a cheater but someone who cheated. Personally, I don't hold it over his head like the Sword of Damocles, it is a part of our relationship history, but a very small part given the rest. Granted the after effects have repercussions, but if I cannot change what was, why obsess over it, that's my take anyway.

 

I am always taken aback at the use of the word bitter to describe when someone has been hurt by the person they loved and trusted. Yes there will be resentment which I know is often used instead of the word bitter, but the connotations here are often that the BS shouldn't have any feelings either way.

 

Could have picked any quote recently. Have you taken a decent person and reasonable in the face of adversity pill? Have you a prescription for LS?

[seren]

Could have picked any quote recently. Have you taken a decent person and reasonable in the face of adversity pill? Have you a prescription for LS?

 

Ha ha! Wheelwright. I am of the mind that s*** happens, you (general you) either deal with it and move along, adjusting and readjusting as necessary. It (the happening) does not define all that was or can be, it is a huge hurdle to overcome, but there is nothing that cannot be dealt with. if I were to always view my H as a cheater, how on earth could I hope to reconcile? It was what it was, we are still us, my view of him changed, but he is still inherently my H and the man that I love. If I can forgive him and if we can learn from what happened and come out of it, battered, but in some ways stronger, then we can survive. Were I to make him drag the cheater label behind him for ever, he would become bogged down with it all, we would foccus all that has been and can be good about our marriage and define it by an A, rather than what it is.

 

I love my H, he me, he had an A, it ended, we worked to reconcile it, we have (or at least it is an ongoing process), probably always will be which means we pay attention, we are attentive. That's it really. It's like saying, when is an OW/OM an OW/OM, when is a BS a BS, labels all, actions speak louder than words, I have respect for anyone who having realised their error takes the time and effort to fix it. Tis a learning curve.

 

I see absolutely no point in berrating, baiting or not trying to understand, especially here on LS. However, there seems to be an awful lot of digging and bear baiting lately. I find it pointless some comments snipey and frankly, as an XBS, some of which certainly don't define my mindset. I think you are working on your M, you have feelings for what was, but are trying to move forward and you know WW, sometimes it's all we can do, one foot in front of the other and plod on.

[frenchiefun]

I think some cheaters remain cheaters forever. It depends on the reasons for cheating in the first place - the ones who do it because they have self esteem issues and find the attention of someone outside of the marriage makes them feel attractive, are likely to keep cheating until they address those underlying issues.

 

Others, who maybe feel unappreciated/taken for granted/lonely etc in a marriage, do it for different reasons. And then some people are just players and shouldn't have gotten married in the first place.