When is a cheater no longer a cheater?

[whichwayisup]

I really agree with this. I said previously in this thread that cheating involves a mindset. Serial cheaters have it in spades as if its a personality trait or something.

 

But, I'm starting to agree with Lizzie on cheating and men (no offense meant, fellas - I know this is a HUGE generalization). I think a serial cheat is born every time that "only time cheating" becomes "first time cheating". KWIM?

 

Okay, I just thought of this and throwing it out there. A thought popped into my head.

 

Men who are very sexual, are they more prone to cheat?

Men with big ego's, are they more prone to cheat?

Or men who are insecure?

 

Let's leave out narcissists, that's a different breed all together.

Edited March 8, 2011 by whichwayisup
typed in pooped instead of popped! lol

[NoIDidn't]

I getcha. Yes. But it's okay for me. I AM perfect :laugh:

 

Just kidding. That one scares me actually. I have seen one poster here (maybe as many as three) who were so cutting and cruel about the MM's wife... They really saw themselves as more than a cut above the 'competition' and so yes, they would probably go in to a future R with MM never considering for one second that any infidelity could occur in THEIR life because they're just such an amazing catch who gives their MM everything he needs....

 

Yes, Silly, you ARE perfect!

 

I can appreciate youthful ignorance and arrogance in the young, but not in people that should have had enough life experiences to temper that perception.

 

I bet your BF adores you as you are different from the partner he had previously. I hope he doesn't waste too much time doing mental and emotional comparisons of you with his exW. Its hard not to do it, but its not healthy for the new R long term.

 

This is a theory I just thought of. What if getting a big head from being adored by our mates influenced their decision to cheat to begin with? Not saying its all our faults if they do cheat, but that its a contributing factor. I can imagine not feeling like I needed to do anything to improve or maintain my R if I started to take our perfect fit for granted.

 

Just some thoughts off the top of my head. And generalizing.

[Silly_Girl]

I bet your BF adores you as you are different from the partner he had previously. I hope he doesn't waste too much time doing mental and emotional comparisons of you with his exW. Its hard not to do it, but its not healthy for the new R long term.

 

He doesn't tend to compare us as individuals. But something he needs to be wary of is wasting headspace lamenting all the wasted years. He says it's as though someone turned on the light on his life. He is himself now and his family are so happy to see him so relaxed and enjoying life. Even I am surprised at just how much he's embraced the changes and spent time thinking and understanding them. I think he should take time to appreciate this improvement to his life, but there's no point regretting getting married (which he does) because it was what he chose for himself at the time.

 

I can't cook as well as her. Otherwise I stand up to comparison damned well, were he to do so.

 

This is a theory I just thought of. What if getting a big head from being adored by our mates influenced their decision to cheat to begin with? Not saying its all our faults if they do cheat, but that its a contributing factor.

 

I bet it's happened. That they are so bolstered by the adoration they feel invincible, in that way. As a contributing factor, of course, not a reason per se.

[OWoman]

This is a theory I just thought of. What if getting a big head from being adored by our mates influenced their decision to cheat to begin with? Not saying its all our faults if they do cheat' date=' but that its a contributing factor. I can imagine not feeling like I needed to do anything to improve or maintain my R [b']if I started to take our perfect fit for granted.[/b]

 

Just some thoughts off the top of my head. And generalizing.

 

I think the bolded bit would be the key. Some people would take the "adoration" as an impetus to bask in their perfection; others would take it as an impetus to be the best person they could possibly for a mate who loves them so much, so as to be worthy of that adoration.

 

For fOWs in a post-A R with their fMM, I imagine more would tend towards the latter, since we've had up-close exposure to exactly how badly a R can go wrong, so we're doubly determined to nurture and cherish our Rs and our mates, while SOs in Rs with no prior exposure to As are probably more likely (than are fAPs) to do the former, IMO.

[jthorne]

Naturally I'd not expect you to be anything BUT sarcastic. You don't want someone to be happy with someone they met whilst one party was married.

I don't feel that my post was sarcastic. It was posted at face value, like most all of my posts are. If you found it sarcastic, then you are projecting.

 

Respectfully, I am not suprised. You started this thread about cheating, but stated you aren't worried about it. Yet you seem to have internalized many of the responses. Again, not being sarcastic, just pointing out an observation.

[NoIDidn't]

For fOWs in a post-A R with their fMM, I imagine more would tend towards the latter, since we've had up-close exposure to exactly how badly a R can go wrong, so we're doubly determined to nurture and cherish our Rs and our mates, while SOs in Rs with no prior exposure to As are probably more likely (than are fAPs) to do the former, IMO.

 

Since many of the OWs here (current and former) have reported past Rs that went very badly, maybe having had those experiences could have helped. But its an erroneous assumption that those in Rs untouched by infidelity are somehow ignorant of how to nurture a R or lack the motivation to do so.

[Silly_Girl]

I don't feel that my post was sarcastic. It was posted at face value, like most all of my posts are. If you found it sarcastic, then you are projecting.

 

Respectfully, I am not suprised. You started this thread about cheating, but stated you aren't worried about it. Yet you seem to have internalized many of the responses. Again, not being sarcastic, just pointing out an observation.

 

I missed this, think it must be a delayed post.

 

You made an incorrect assumption in your post. So I responded.

 

Internalized how, please? I'm intrigued. I believe this R is less susceptible to infidelity than any other I've had, so it'd be good to hear what tells you something to the contrary.

[Brokenlady]

....Not a Christmas cracker riddle, but a question based on SidLyon's comment that those who begin a new permanent relationship out of an affair are equally at risk of being the victim of cheating as those who have been cheated on and elect to reconcile. She said 'we're both married to cheaters'.

 

Just curious as to whether a cheater can ever be an ex-cheater in the way an alcoholic may become an ex-alcoholic or whether the consensus of the board is simply the old leopard/spots issue and even if someone has been faithful and true for 30, 40 or 50 years, if they once cheated they shall be spoken of as a cheater for the rest of their life.

 

I depends on who you ask. If you ask a bitter BS whose WS left her for OW, then he'll always be a rat bastard cheater and the OW too. If you ask that OW, he stopped being a cheater when he started being faithful to her. It's all about perception.

[OWoman]

Since many of the OWs here (current and former) have reported past Rs that went very badly' date=' maybe having had those experiences could have helped. But [b']its an erroneous assumption that those in Rs untouched by infidelity are somehow ignorant of how to nurture a R or lack the motivation to do so[/b].

 

I didn't claim that they were - merely that those with no exposure would be less so than would someone who had direct exposure to the fall-out of things going badly.

 

The same as in any other area of life. Those who've been mugged are typically more cautious when using badly lit subways than those who've had no exposure to street crime, for example. I'm not sure what's so offensive about my point?

[Silly_Girl]

I depends on who you ask. If you ask a bitter BS whose WS left her for OW, then he'll always be a rat bastard cheater and the OW too. If you ask that OW, he stopped being a cheater when he started being faithful to her. It's all about perception.

 

I totally see what you're saying but I thought perhaps it wasn't so straightforward for OW and also wondered about reconciled BS.

[Brokenlady]

I totally see what you're saying but I thought perhaps it wasn't so straightforward for OW and also wondered about reconciled BS.

 

Well, if this board is any indication, the WH's of reconciled M's are no longer cheaters, they were just "sick" and "came to their senses".

[OWoman]

Well, if this board is any indication, the WH's of reconciled M's are no longer cheaters, they were just "sick" and "came to their senses".

 

I don't think that's quite fair! There are some reconciled fBSs who are quite open and honest about the hard work that was required from both of them to face, and resolve, what had gone wrong to lead to the "cheating" and to develop better skills and attitudes to minimise the chances of it happening again. Which, IMO, is the same process a fOW (or fOM) goes through when they get together with their fAP in a post-A R, if it's to be sustainable.

 

I certainly don't think my H was just "sick" and "came to his senses" - it was a process that took years of M to get him to the position he was in where he was vulnerable to an A, and I don't think that can easily be dismissed as "sickness" as if he just caught a cold; nor did the hard work during the years of the A, and his IC, and his family counselling, amount simply to him "coming to his senses". And reading some of the descriptions from some of the recovered fBSs here, I doubt they'd consider their WS to fit the "sick" but "came to his senses" profile either.

[Snowflower]

Well, if this board is any indication, the WH's of reconciled M's are no longer cheaters, they were just "sick" and "came to their senses".

 

Speaking as a fBS who reconciled with her H, I don't think it is quite that simple. It takes an incredible amount of work on both the part of the BS and the WS to recover the marriage.

 

I know it sometimes seems like the WS who leaves the BS for the OW is termed a scumbag and a forever-cheat by the BSs. But it is really no different than the MM who returns to his wife and the mindset is sometimes "yeah, well the BS can have him."

 

I never thought my H was simply "sick" during the time he had his affair. Did he morph into someone I didn't recognize, yes.

 

I don't think that's quite fair! There are some reconciled fBSs who are quite open and honest about the hard work that was required from both of them to face, and resolve, what had gone wrong to lead to the "cheating" and to develop better skills and attitudes to minimise the chances of it happening again. Which, IMO, is the same process a fOW (or fOM) goes through when they get together with their fAP in a post-A R, if it's to be sustainable.

 

I certainly don't think my H was just "sick" and "came to his senses" - it was a process that took years of M to get him to the position he was in where he was vulnerable to an A, and I don't think that can easily be dismissed as "sickness" as if he just caught a cold; nor did the hard work during the years of the A, and his IC, and his family counselling, amount simply to him "coming to his senses". And reading some of the descriptions from some of the recovered fBSs here, I doubt they'd consider their WS to fit the "sick" but "came to his senses" profile either.

 

This is really a good post, OW. You said it much better than I did!

[greengoddess]

So, you've never cheated on anything? Wow, I find that extremely hard to believe...and I suppose you have only told a "little white lie" in your entire life.

 

I guess delusions aren't an issue either:rolleyes:

 

 

I find this answer very telling that you would not believe that someone could actually not cheat on anything.

 

I have actually recently noticed through friends and acquaintances that people who cheat in relationships also seem to cheat in many other aspects in their life. They fudge everything a little. Not all of course, just my recent noticing of people I have come in contact with. They cheat on their taxes, they cheat on unemployment, they take a little extra at work, they expect things to be given not earned etc etc...

 

I think it is a character thing. Either you cheat on "things" or you really don't believe in cheating anything anywhere at all.

[Tashcw]

I think it's been touched on here, but what about the possibility that cheating once actually makes some people LESS likely to cheat in the future? At this moment I can safely say this is the case for me.

 

I never thought I'd cheat because it was 'wrong' and would 'hurt' other people. But it's hard to imagine this when they're still happy (not knowing what's really happening behind their backs) and you're having a great time with someone else.

 

However, once you see the actual devastation that the discovery of an affair can cause - and you see someone (either the person you still loved, or someone you once loved) fall apart, become mistrusting to everyone watch their self-esteem disappear, I think it's that visible image that would now stop me cheating on my OH. Not what I know is 'right' or 'wrong' but the consequences I've actually seen for myself.

 

If I hadn't cheated and seen the effect it can have, the thought of cheating would not have the same impact on me it does now.

[anne1707]

I find this answer very telling that you would not believe that someone could actually not cheat on anything.

 

I have actually recently noticed through friends and acquaintances that people who cheat in relationships also seem to cheat in many other aspects in their life. They fudge everything a little. Not all of course, just my recent noticing of people I have come in contact with. They cheat on their taxes, they cheat on unemployment, they take a little extra at work, they expect things to be given not earned etc etc...

 

I think it is a character thing. Either you cheat on "things" or you really don't believe in cheating anything anywhere at all.

 

And in turn I find the above implication that a WS is probably a crook offensive. Yes I had an affair but I have never done - or would do - any of the other "cheats" you have listed.

[bentnotbroken]

I think it's been touched on here, but what about the possibility that cheating once actually makes some people LESS likely to cheat in the future? At this moment I can safely say this is the case for me.

 

I never thought I'd cheat because it was 'wrong' and would 'hurt' other people. But it's hard to imagine this when they're still happy (not knowing what's really happening behind their backs) and you're having a great time with someone else.

 

However, once you see the actual devastation that the discovery of an affair can cause - and you see someone (either the person you still loved, or someone you once loved) fall apart, become mistrusting to everyone watch their self-esteem disappear, I think it's that visible image that would now stop me cheating on my OH. Not what I know is 'right' or 'wrong' but the consequences I've actually seen for myself.

 

If I hadn't cheated and seen the effect it can have, the thought of cheating would not have the same impact on me it does now.

 

I think your statement might be the case for people. I guess I don't need to see the devastation that some actions cause to not do them. I know if I do illigal drugs, it will have a devasting impact on those around me. That is in addition to just knowing it is wrong. But I do recognize that some people need to walk in the fire to know it is hot.

[Silly_Girl]

I think it's been touched on here, but what about the possibility that cheating once actually makes some people LESS likely to cheat in the future? At this moment I can safely say this is the case for me.

 

I never thought I'd cheat because it was 'wrong' and would 'hurt' other people. But it's hard to imagine this when they're still happy (not knowing what's really happening behind their backs) and you're having a great time with someone else.

 

However, once you see the actual devastation that the discovery of an affair can cause - and you see someone (either the person you still loved, or someone you once loved) fall apart, become mistrusting to everyone watch their self-esteem disappear, I think it's that visible image that would now stop me cheating on my OH. Not what I know is 'right' or 'wrong' but the consequences I've actually seen for myself.

 

If I hadn't cheated and seen the effect it can have, the thought of cheating would not have the same impact on me it does now.

 

This is a good point and I agree. My bf's stance on it is that it was so bloody hard and damned painful to avoid and hide and lie that he never wants to go back there. He's super-open because he wants me to see he's learnt. I am very serious about my boundaries and am zero tolerance about lies or withholding or anything in that vein. He knew if he wanted to be with me he'd have to take the same approach and he's loved it. Loved sharing his life and being so relaxed. Me too. I think we both learnt a lot last year and I really do hope we continue to benefit in this way.

[greengoddess]

And in turn I find the above implication that a WS is probably a crook offensive. Yes I had an affair but I have never done - or would do - any of the other "cheats" you have listed.

 

ahh no sorry. I clearly stated from what I've seen in recent dealings with people. I should say people who cheat elsewhere also seem to cheat in relationships too but not necessaraily the reverse people who cheat in relationships also cheat elsewhere.

 

I'm sorry that I offended you. I just recently ran into some really interesting people at a government office...

[Tashcw]

I think your statement might be the case for people. I guess I don't need to see the devastation that some actions cause to not do them. I know if I do illigal drugs, it will have a devasting impact on those around me. That is in addition to just knowing it is wrong. But I do recognize that some people need to walk in the fire to know it is hot.

 

Absolutely agree - I knew it was wrong before 'impact day' and had issues of guilt etc at the time, but I a part of me still thought that as my relationship was ending anyway (we'd discussed moving out and we were looking for separate places), it wouldn't really 'count'. Knowing and seeing for yourself are very different and that completely now outrules any 'justification' I could come up with.

 

* (Although, as per poster above, if my OH abused me with his fists I'd have no qualms if a prince came along and swept me off my feet!!)

[anne1707]

ahh no sorry. I clearly stated from what I've seen in recent dealings with people. I should say people who cheat elsewhere also seem to cheat in relationships too but not necessaraily the reverse people who cheat in relationships also cheat elsewhere.

 

I'm sorry that I offended you. I just recently ran into some really interesting people at a government office...

 

Apology accepted

 

I think what you are saying here may be more apt in that there could well be a correlation between those who lack boundaries (for want of a better word) in legal matters being less adverse to having an affair when compared to others. However just because someone cheats on a partner, it does not mean that they cheat in other aspects of their life.

[Brokenlady]

I certainly don't think my H was just "sick" and "came to his senses" - it was a process that took years of M to get him to the position he was in where he was vulnerable to an A, and I don't think that can easily be dismissed as "sickness" as if he just caught a cold; nor did the hard work during the years of the A, and his IC, and his family counselling, amount simply to him "coming to his senses". And reading some of the descriptions from some of the recovered fBSs here, I doubt they'd consider their WS to fit the "sick" but "came to his senses" profile either.

 

I'm not implying that the actual process is that simple, but I've read enough of certain BS's posts to lead me to think that an A is sometimes viewed as temporary insanity by the WS. And now that eyre back with the BW, these spouses are gods gift to their partners. It just strikes me as disingenuous.

 

The bs in my situation was similarly minded, sure I put some kind of powerful spell on her H that he cheated and left her. At one point she even tried to force him into counseling for sex addiction, which was ridiculous. He's not a sex addict. But she had to convince herself thAt there was something deeply wrong with him - as opposed to their R. She essentially said that all would be forgiven and forgotten if he came back to "god" and back to her, he would once again be her spouse that walked on water.

[greengoddess]

Apology accepted

 

I think what you are saying here may be more apt in that there could well be a correlation between those who lack boundaries (for want of a better word) in legal matters being less adverse to having an affair when compared to others. However just because someone cheats on a partner, it does not mean that they cheat in other aspects of their life.

 

better put. Yes.

[greengoddess]

And we all know that there is a thin line between "perception" & "expectation" but then there is "reality". There is always a person's knowledge which creates their own "reality" or their "truth".

 

Our mind contemplates to what it has been exposed. So your "bitter BS" nonsense that you are always throwing around here, starting to sounds suspect on your part. Drop the name calling already. Reeks bitterness on your part as well. Just saying... Take it as an advice. Lighten up, odds are other people have had horrible R too.

 

 

:laugh: I know. Really. By the time the married jerk leaves for the other woman the wife has normally had enough and happily says omg you can have him, he is all yours now. Bs's are always called bitter but honestly I don't see it. I think the mm always has to paint the wife as the "bitter" one to make himself feel better about leaving.

[Silly_Girl]

:laugh: I know. Really. By the time the married jerk leaves for the other woman the wife has normally had enough and happily says omg you can have him, he is all yours now.

 

They definitely don't ALWAYS say that. Not in my experience (and that's not just in my bf's situation, but my own and a couple of others).