When is a cheater no longer a cheater?

[neveragain1]

But, since you said this is about principles, then just what principles are we talking? Whether or not someone can change? I believe wholeheartedly that they can.

 

the principle of that being part of their character, as SG said, "THEN".

 

so if a guy that has sex with girls that haven't even hit puberty, or say a girl even 8 years old, when he is 21, it could be said that when he is 41 that was part of his character then.

 

if you can say that a 41 year old man has a new outlook on life apart from his character of child molestation when he was 21, THEN you can say a cheater can have a different character now as opposed to "then".

[neveragain1]

And would I care if a 41 year old who had sex at 21 with a child but had been rehabilitated moved in next door to me, no I wouldn't.

 

 

then all I can say to that is

 

because if you think a person like that loses the desire to do children, you would believe just about anything.

[Star_Bright]

And would I care if a 41 year old who had sex at 21 with a child but had been rehabilitated moved in next door to me, no I wouldn't.

 

WOW.

 

I hope you don't have children if this rehabilitated sex offender really does move in next door to you.

 

Studies have shown that there is no such thing as rehabilitating pedaphiliacs. It's something in their brains that make them need to do this heinous thing.

 

And if even if studies didn't show that, I don't see how anyone could be comfortable with that.

 

To me an affair and a pedophiliac are two totally different things and I don't even know why we're comparing them. ???? Wow.

[findingnemo]

I'm not sure I agree, but not based on my experiences, necessarily, but those who have experienced infidelity in their marriage and subsequently built something stronger.... They may know that their husband once cheated, but I hope they don't consistently VIEW their life partner as a cheater.

 

If it is believed that most MPs stay in their Ms regardless of the proclamations of love they give APs, and that APs should not believe what they are told, how can a BS ever believe that MP will never cheat again? Unless the reasons MP cheated in the first place were legitimate (a paradox to me, I fail to imagine one), how can the BS trust that he/she will not cheat in the next 20 years? From all the posts, it seems to me that MPs in As have issues ranging from avoidance, fear of confrontation, selfishness, you name any negative behaviour that seeks self gratification and ignores the happiness of one's own family. This behaviour doesn't just go away. It has a basis and will always make the cheating spouse more likely to cheat in the future.

 

I think that once a cheater, always at least a potential cheater.

[fooled once]

if he drinks socially and doesn't abuse it, then he was never an alcoholic to begin with.

 

a true alcoholic will stay drunk if they don't stay away from alcohol completely. Since your uncle can drink occasionally, then he never had the problem of alcoholism.

 

Huh? Isn't it common knowledge that someone who has a beer on weekends isn't an alcoholic?

 

True alcoholics don't "stay drunk". I was married to an alcoholic - a functioning alcoholic. He works, he manages his life. My grandfather died an alcoholic, but he held a job for over 50 years. He wasn't drunk at work.

 

I find it fascinating. If you behaved a certain way you retain that label for EVER.

 

So someone who was very promiscuous in their youth but grows up, settles down, and learns the error of their ways remains a Slut. But a 'non-practicing' slut!!

 

Well don't people here use labels all the time? I mean, OWoman continues to embrace being an Other Woman, and she (and others) created all kinds of labels for others here - COW, rOW, fOW, BBS, etc.

 

I think it is about behaviors.

 

FYI - for the record, I am a mom and a wife - both titles that I love I am sensitive, honest, loyal and hardworking - those are characters of mine, or behaviors if you will.

[Silly_Girl]

If it is believed that most MPs stay in their Ms regardless of the proclamations of love they give APs, and that APs should not believe what they are told, how can a BS ever believe that MP will never cheat again? Unless the reasons MP cheated in the first place were legitimate (a paradox to me, I fail to imagine one), how can the BS trust that he/she will not cheat in the next 20 years? From all the posts, it seems to me that MPs in As have issues ranging from avoidance, fear of confrontation, selfishness, you name any negative behaviour that seeks self gratification and ignores the happiness of one's own family. This behaviour doesn't just go away. It has a basis and will always make the cheating spouse more likely to cheat in the future.

 

I think that once a cheater, always at least a potential cheater.

 

Is it your belief, then, that no couple should ever attempt reconciliation after infidelity?

[ladydesigner]

Cheaters never have a new outlook on life. Sure some will never cheat again but that same selfish state of mind will always be there and they'll forever think about their affair ####-buddy and how gooey it was.

 

I'm sorry but that selfish state of mind no longer thinks the A was gooey at all, maybe in an ick sort of way now.

 

I WAS a cheater, and fell prey to my overwhelming anger upon D-Day of my H's A's and had a revenge affair. I was never a cheater before this and I don't ever want to cheat again. What category would that put me into? Reformed cheater:laugh:

 

I can say I am no longer a cheater and will not cheat again.

[silktricks]

if you can say that a 41 year old man has a new outlook on life apart from his character of child molestation when he was 21, THEN you can say a cheater can have a different character now as opposed to "then".

That's pretty much the definition of "rehabilitated", but is anyway completely off the mark of what I was talking about. You want to make a point so have skewed the discussion to a vile subject. The point, though, was "can someone change?" I say they can, both for good and for bad.

 

It appears this does not sit well with you.

[MorningCoffee]

It seems to me the OP question boils down to whether someone who has been part of an A can grow and change, or not.

 

More, it seems to me it is an "eye of the beholder" kind of thing. That is, perhaps one who firmly believes "once a cheater always a cheater" feels compelled to discount the potential for personal growth from the experience that can alter how a person chooses to behave. And one who disputes that claim feels more hopeful of the potential for growth and change?

 

Reminds me of the old saw:

 

"Good judgment derives from experience.

Experience comes from bad judgment."

[SidLyon]

WOW.

 

I hope you don't have children if this rehabilitated sex offender really does move in next door to you.

 

Studies have shown that there is no such thing as rehabilitating pedaphiliacs. It's something in their brains that make them need to do this heinous thing.

 

And if even if studies didn't show that, I don't see how anyone could be comfortable with that.

 

To me an affair and a pedophiliac are two totally different things and I don't even know why we're comparing them. ???? Wow.

 

I think this discussion has gone off-track. But I'll give my 2c worth anyway. As I understand it rehabilitating someone who is attracted to pre-pubescent children is about as (un)successful as rehabilitating someone who is gay. Many gays woudl be offended at such a notion.

 

On the other hand the law doesn't distinguish much between sex with a pre-pubescent kid and, for example, a 15 year old girl who is essentially a woman in the physical sense. There's nothing unnatural about a 19 year old male attracted to a 15 year old girl.

 

But they are all lumped in together under the broad label "sex offender". So if a sex offender moved in next door to me I'd find myself in the difficult position of trying to find out exactly what it was s/he had done, because as a parent I'd be more concerned about some things than others.

 

However this thread is about cheaters. I know I was the original source for this thread but labeling someone a cheater is not something I do IRL except for serials. Anyone else is someone who cheated, who given the "right" circumstances might do it again. Those who haven't cheated may also do it in the "right" circumstances.

 

My H likes to think of himself as reformed. It's good for me that he sees himself as this way. I hope if he feels tempted again that we discuss it next time. If I were an OW who had "fought for and won" the MM from his wife I think I'd feel the same way.

[WTFBBQ]

....Not a Christmas cracker riddle, but a question based on SidLyon's comment that those who begin a new permanent relationship out of an affair are equally at risk of being the victim of cheating as those who have been cheated on and elect to reconcile. She said 'we're both married to cheaters'.

 

Just curious as to whether a cheater can ever be an ex-cheater in the way an alcoholic may become an ex-alcoholic or whether the consensus of the board is simply the old leopard/spots issue and even if someone has been faithful and true for 30, 40 or 50 years, if they once cheated they shall be spoken of as a cheater for the rest of their life.

Are you afraid the cheater you're with is going to screw around on you too?

SMH

[Spark1111]

If it is believed that most MPs stay in their Ms regardless of the proclamations of love they give APs, and that APs should not believe what they are told, how can a BS ever believe that MP will never cheat again? Unless the reasons MP cheated in the first place were legitimate (a paradox to me, I fail to imagine one), how can the BS trust that he/she will not cheat in the next 20 years? From all the posts, it seems to me that MPs in As have issues ranging from avoidance, fear of confrontation, selfishness, you name any negative behaviour that seeks self gratification and ignores the happiness of one's own family. This behaviour doesn't just go away. It has a basis and will always make the cheating spouse more likely to cheat in the future.

 

I think that once a cheater, always at least a potential cheater.

 

Yes, I believe this is true. The potential will always exist.

[Spark1111]

It seems to me the OP question boils down to whether someone who has been part of an A can grow and change, or not.

 

More, it seems to me it is an "eye of the beholder" kind of thing. That is, perhaps one who firmly believes "once a cheater always a cheater" feels compelled to discount the potential for personal growth from the experience that can alter how a person chooses to behave. And one who disputes that claim feels more hopeful of the potential for growth and change?

 

Reminds me of the old saw:

 

"Good judgment derives from experience.

Experience comes from bad judgment."

 

Good post MC!

 

I think reform is always possible. I believe, hell, I've witnessed the ability of people to change and grow if they want to.

 

But since I also believe we always have choice and free will, as a fBS, I will always wonder HOW permission is given to choose infidelity; what set of character traits and situational temptations existed to allow permission.

 

And, if those same exact character traits and situational availability existed ever again in the future, would the same choices be made?

 

So we can reform (stop) destructive behaviors because we have faced dire consequences as a direct result of them.

 

But unless the reformed fill-in-the-blank gets to the "WHY", the real "WHY" of self-destructive behaviors, would there, should there, be any guarantee of future behavior?

 

I think not. So I remain, and should remain, cautiously optimistic.

[summerdowling87]

I myself cheated on my BF came clean about it years ago and felt bad bout it so. I never did it again and, will brake it off with him if I feel the need or can't control my emotions which lead me to cheat in the first place.

 

But I also think that it only matter to you and, you SO if you will allways be viewed as a cheater or not as for. Ex-alcoholic not sure my father is one he stopped drinking ten years ago but. I still see him as one becuse of his actions as in cheaters in all in the actions in the aftermath.

[Silly_Girl]

Are you afraid the cheater you're with is going to screw around on you too?

SMH

 

No. Or rather, I trust him as much as I would ever trust someone I was in a relationship with.

[blissfullyoblivious]

The cheating with OM/W stops when MM/MW no longer has the desire to cultivate and maintain secret "friends".

 

However, the cheater may then choose to indulge occasionally with ONS or prostitutes as they require less maintenace.

[bentnotbroken]

The cheating with OM/W stops when MM/MW no longer has the desire to cultivate and maintain secret "friends".

 

However, the cheater may then choose to indulge occasionally with ONS or prostitutes as they require less maintenace.

 

 

Ahh, that still makes them cheaters. Maintenance has little to do with the act of betrayal.

[blissfullyoblivious]

Ahh, that still makes them cheaters. Maintenance has little to do with the act of betrayal.

 

You didn't read my post closely.

I differentiated between the different types of cheating.

 

I never said that I believed a cheater would ever stop. I believe that once someone starts down that path the tendency to do so again is latent.

[bentnotbroken]

You didn't read my post closely.

I differentiated between the different types of cheating.

 

I never said that I believed a cheater would ever stop. I believe that once someone starts down that path the tendency to do so again is latent.

 

 

I read it closely...then I posted what I felt I needed to.

[neveragain1]

That's pretty much the definition of "rehabilitated", but is anyway completely off the mark of what I was talking about. You want to make a point so have skewed the discussion to a vile subject.

 

vile subject or not, if the principle of people "changing" can apply to a cheater, then it can apply to a child molestor no? and anyone in this thread saying that they'd have no problem with a child molestor moving in next door to them, changed or not, are lying their asses off because the principle can apply to cheaters.

 

 

The point, though, was "can someone change?" I say they can, both for good and for bad.

 

It appears this does not sit well with you.

 

doesn't sit one way or the other.

 

but change or not, I'm not going to take a chance on someone that has cheated in the past. past behavior is a good indicator most of the time of future behavior, or at the very least a look into what someone is more than capable of. No thanks.

[ladydesigner]

Sorry to T/J but I am really confused about why a cheater is being compared to a child molester.

 

For one, in an affair there are 2 willing participants a WS and an AP.

 

In a situation such as molestation there is only one willing participant (sick) and that is the molester.

 

Why are these 2 being compared?

 

I do not believe that once a cheater always a cheater, serial cheater...hmmm maybe, but a child molester or even an abuser, it is almost ALWAYS unlikely for them to change. It would take a hell of a lot of therapy for the rest of their lives.

[Snowflower]

Sorry to T/J but I am really confused about why a cheater is being compared to a child molester.

 

For one, in an affair there are 2 willing participants a WS and an AP.

 

In a situation such as molestation there is only one willing participant (sick) and that is the molester.

 

Why are these 2 being compared?

 

I do not believe that once a cheater always a cheater, serial cheater...hmmm maybe, but a child molester or even an abuser, it is almost ALWAYS unlikely for them to change. It would take a hell of a lot of therapy for the rest of their lives.

 

LD, some probably compare the BS to the victimized child and that is why there is the comparison being a child molester and a cheater.

 

IMO, it is ludicrous to even compare the two and trivializes the horror of child molestation.

[ladydesigner]

LD, some probably compare the BS to the victimized child and that is why there is the comparison being a child molester and a cheater.

 

IMO, it is ludicrous to even compare the two and trivializes the horror of child molestation.

 

Thanks Snowflower! It just struck a chord with me, as a child abuse survivor, I can't possibly compare the two:sick:

[NoIDidn't]

I'm not sure why cheating was compared to being an alcoholic or sex offenders. And its not just that its subjective. They have nothing to do with each other other than being choices. An alcoholic does it to themselves, the sex offender and cheater are harming others in secret but still one often lacks consent in the other. Just relating these takes the topic off-topic so I digress.

 

I find this topic to come up with OPs that are now in "proper" relationships with their former AP. Its a constant worry for them. Its similar to the "Why demonize the married person" thread title (one I admit I once started myself) in wondering why people will forever related that person with the cheating and the usually poor behavior that accompanied it.

 

Just like the former BS has to accept that their marriage has forever changed with the new knowledge of who their partner really is (should they stay married), the former OP needs to accept that their SO is a person that has the potential to cheat on them too.

 

Relapses are possible and somewhat common until they figure out why they are doing it.

 

But, yes, the cheater label will stay with that person for life. They will never forget it themselves. They will tell the story to friends and family when its appropriate - whether they help a friend that's cheating or try to warn a friend from doing so. They will tell that story as it is now part of who they are.

 

Its evidenced by people even in this thread. They might not be cheating at the moment, but they remember the time when they did. And its a sobering reminder of what they are capable of. It doesn't mean that future partners should be consumed with worrying about it. But it does mean that they shouldn't be in denial about the possibility of it happening.

[pureinheart]

....Not a Christmas cracker riddle, but a question based on SidLyon's comment that those who begin a new permanent relationship out of an affair are equally at risk of being the victim of cheating as those who have been cheated on and elect to reconcile. She said 'we're both married to cheaters'.

 

Just curious as to whether a cheater can ever be an ex-cheater in the way an alcoholic may become an ex-alcoholic or whether the consensus of the board is simply the old leopard/spots issue and even if someone has been faithful and true for 30, 40 or 50 years, if they once cheated they shall be spoken of as a cheater for the rest of their life.

 

Hi SG!

 

Personally I think we are all capable of becoming addicted to anything, becoming a "cheater", and much, much more. With that I would say live the best you can with what you have...live the best you can and do the best you can and don't trip, nor put all of your faith in man. "Man" will let you down everytime, and if we allow fear that he/she will cheat, use drugs or drink (insert fear), we will subconsciously fulfill that "fear". I think fear will keep us from our destiny and happiness.

 

Speaking specifically to the EMA's: those that ended up with AP and those that reconciled, I think the chances of re-visiting the past is unlikely IF the core issues were dealt with, the root issues.

 

Whatever is meant to be will be, we cannot change that, but we can change how we react.