Author Floridaman Posted August 6, 2011 Author Share Posted August 6, 2011 Have ratched it up to almost once a week for the past couple of months.... on a certain weeknight, we have seemed to ML, which is okay. maybe less, maybe more, dunno. It's hard to remember. But I want more. But it's been about 3 weeks since I don't know when. Am hungry, dogwamit!! Am getting tired (and sore) from all this MB'ing... With all I'm going through, still am having more sex than when I was single. 2X through all my 20s and maybe 3X in HS.... So maybe can look at it from that view.... Link to post Share on other sites
Lovelybird Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Floridaman Is there a good reason you don't go to counseling yet? It seems you don't really want change at all? On one hand, you are grieving you cannot get enough sex and affection, but on the another hand it seems you are enjoying the chasing and being neglected and abused. A counselor may see clearly your relationship dynamics and help you, if your wife has intimacy issues, and help her. One thing I was wondering...your wife says she loves you. But where are the actions that show the love? Talk is cheap. Some women are indeed passive not agressive. But they show their love by being acceptive and responsive. Are you sure you are not living in your own dreams? not reality? Link to post Share on other sites
Dust Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 Floridaman Is there a good reason you don't go to counseling yet? It seems you don't really want change at all? On one hand, you are grieving you cannot get enough sex and affection, but on the another hand it seems you are enjoying the chasing and being neglected and abused. A counselor may see clearly your relationship dynamics and help you, if your wife has intimacy issues, and help her. One thing I was wondering...your wife says she loves you. But where are the actions that show the love? Talk is cheap. Some women are indeed passive not agressive. But they show their love by being acceptive and responsive. Are you sure you are not living in your own dreams? not reality? A wife needs to have sex with her husband. It’s his job to make that clear. It’s also his job to leave her when all hope is lost. Link to post Share on other sites
Lovelybird Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 A wife needs to have sex with her husband. It’s his job to make that clear. It’s also his job to leave her when all hope is lost. From Floridaman's posts, I can see his wife had challenged him to grow in patience and love. Maybe it is time Floridaman challenge her to grow some. I think you can be challenging and still be loving Otherwise, his wife sounds like sitting on a throne and Floridaman is worshipping her. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Floridaman Posted August 14, 2011 Author Share Posted August 14, 2011 A wife needs to have sex with her husband. It’s his job to make that clear. It’s also his job to leave her when all hope is lost. Agree with the first parts, but not necessarily the last part. From Floridaman's posts, I can see his wife had challenged him to grow in patience and love. Maybe it is time Floridaman challenge her to grow some. I think you can be challenging and still be loving Otherwise, his wife sounds like sitting on a throne and Floridaman is worshipping her. These are all good points and I appreciate all of you who've posted here. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Floridaman Posted August 14, 2011 Author Share Posted August 14, 2011 Floridaman Is there a good reason you don't go to counseling yet? It seems you don't really want change at all? On one hand, you are grieving you cannot get enough sex and affection, but on the another hand it seems you are enjoying the chasing and being neglected and abused. No, am not "enjoying" this at all... Do enjoy it when I get LM but not this chase. A counselor may see clearly your relationship dynamics and help you, if your wife has intimacy issues, and help her. That is a good point and one others have made. Do plan to suggest that. Just haven't made the suggestion yet. One thing I was wondering...your wife says she loves you. But where are the actions that show the love? Talk is cheap. Some women are indeed passive not agressive. But they show their love by being acceptive and responsive. Are you sure you are not living in your own dreams? not reality? Your talk vs. actions points are relevant. What do you mean by the last part, the part about reality vs. dreams? Link to post Share on other sites
Lovelybird Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 (edited) You said she constantly tell you that she loves you, and it seems you believe it. Do you feel the love? Do you see her action speaks such love? Does she acknowledge and understand your frustration about lack of physical love? Why did she allow you fight this all by yourself? Even she experiences pain during sex, that can be solved. If it is your technique, she can communicate it to you. What I see from here is her lack of motivation to change at all for you. I might be totally wrong because I don't know your whole story, the sooner you go to counseling, the better chances you may get. It seems like you don't know where truly the root issues are. How can you win when you don't even know what you are fighting? did your wife have a very difficult childhood? Edited August 14, 2011 by Lovelybird Link to post Share on other sites
Author Floridaman Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 Lovelybird, Sorry I didn't respond to your questions sooner. Hopefully, this post will keep this thread from locking up or timing-out. did your wife have a very difficult childhood? No. Have asked her if she was abused in the past, thinking that may have affected her attitudes toward sex. She was raised in a traditional Catholic family, one where the parents didn't express love in front of their children. From what I read, that can influence a person's later views on sex and affection (not sayin' anything derogatory about Catholics). You said she constantly tell you that she loves you, and it seems you believe it. Do you feel the love? Do you see her action speaks such love? Would say affirmative. Does she acknowledge and understand your frustration about lack of physical love? No. Why did she allow you fight this all by yourself? Even she experiences pain during sex, that can be solved. If it is your technique, she can communicate it to you. What I see from here is her lack of motivation to change at all for you. I might be totally wrong because I don't know your whole story, the sooner you go to counseling, the better chances you may get. Those are good points and some things I hadn't considered earlier. It seems like you don't know where truly the root issues are. How can you win when you don't even know what you are fighting? Believe me, I have been considering counseling. We recently attended a marriage seminar and the subject of sex came up. Of course, the words went over her head. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Floridaman Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 Posted this in another thread but want to post here as not everyone has read that thread. An update: Sex is painful to her. Learned about lubes so bought some, which we use. However, sex remains painful and it doesn't seem like she enjoys it. Take one time last month. I entered and was trying to prolong things (used to be "5 min. man'). As she seemed like she wasn't enjoying it, asked if I should accelerate things. Tried, but couldn't get my release. Made me withdraw and I almost released on her tummy, a sexy act that I wanted to do, as I could at least get some kind of satisfaction that way. Releasing on her tummy, thought it could bring some memories as was something I did in some "everything... but" with a couple of virgin or less-experienced ladies in my late 20s.... Have lately taken to rubbing myself up against her vaginal area, to bring some new sensations before entering and return some feelings I had with women I did sex-play with when single.... However, she'd have none of it and acted like my semen was "icky..." and was afraid of the "mess." So clearly, I need to get her to a marriage therapist with sexual therapy skills. Sorry if this is TMI.... but trying to present a view of what's going on. Link to post Share on other sites
Bittersweetie Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Floridaman, I apologize in advance if you've already covered this, as I haven't gone back and read all of your threads regarding this issue, but there was something in your post that reminded me of someone. An update: Sex is painful to her. Learned about lubes so bought some, which we use. However, sex remains painful and it doesn't seem like she enjoys it. A couple of years ago, I attended a set of sessions of group therapy for sexual issues. We were all women, and the group was moderated by a licensed sex therapist, a woman who has written best-selling books about sexual health and intimacy. Your situation reminds me of one of the women in our group. She no longer enjoyed sex with her husband, and it was painful. She tried to slowly work into things, her husband tried to arouse her, but no matter what they did, the act of penetration was painful. Because of that, she stopped even wanting to try to have sex...to her sex meant pain. There was nothing physically wrong with her, she had her regular exams and everything was fine. She was very frustrated and ready to give up on sex altogether. Our therapist pointed out that there is a condition that a few women have that makes sex painful. From my understanding, when penetration happens, the muscles constrict so much it makes things hurt. They don't know a cause, but the therapist said there is treatment and exercises that can be done to relax muscles beforehand. It's a slow, step by step process but it can be treated. I'm sorry, but I don't remember the name of the condition, and I don't have any more details because the woman and therapist took the discussion offline. Obviously I'm no doctor or anything, but I thought I'd might bring this up, as I never knew there was a condition like that until my group. Maybe it is something for your wife and you to look into. B Link to post Share on other sites
frozensprouts Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 i have heard of that. it is thought by some to be related to nerve damage ( resulting in the nerves that sense pain always being "on"), some feel it's psychological, some feel it's a combination. some therapies i have heard that may work are: a- the perscription drug Lyrica. It is ( frm my understanding) a synthetic neurotransmitter that regulates the conduction of nerve impulses. It is used in the treatment of things like, fibromyalgia, shingles, chronic pain syndrome, etc. One word of caution- my daughter too this medication for several years for chronic pain syndrome ( off label, as it was not officially approved for use in children under 12). It did have some side effects in her ( drowsiness, she found it hard to concentrate, her appetite was greatly lowered, etc.- mind you, she was taking a pretty high dose). Maybe this medication would help your wife? I don't know. b- botox can be injected into the mescles in the area to help relax them- this is for women who have issues with the muscles in that area on a daily basis throughout the day, and from what i understand it works quite well c- therapy/counseling may help a lot whatever the cause, this condition is not a voluntary one. she can't control it, and it's not her ( or your) fault. Link to post Share on other sites
StoneCold Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 (edited) Our therapist pointed out that there is a condition that a few women have that makes sex painful. From my understanding, when penetration happens, the muscles constrict so much it makes things hurt. They don't know a cause, but the therapist said there is treatment and exercises that can be done to relax muscles beforehand. It's a slow, step by step process but it can be treated. I'm sorry, but I don't remember the name of the condition, and I don't have any more details because the woman and therapist took the discussion offline. You know.... I've heard of sex being painful many times. You know from which demographic? the married ones....never ever heard this with the single girls. Now I'm not saying its impossible but thats just my experience. However, bet you dollars to donuts that any married woman that experiences pain during sex with her husband...that goes out and ends up with a new guy that they are just so smitten with that both lips are salavating (foreplay not even necessary lmao)....she'll be up and down his rod like as if his jizz contains the secret to eternal life.....pain? magically gone. IMHO.... they just arent into you...apparently to the point of a physical manifestation. You could do special excercises to help but all thats doing is just buying you time Edited October 26, 2011 by StoneCold Link to post Share on other sites
Author Floridaman Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 (edited) bet you dollars to donuts that any married woman that experiences pain during sex with her husband...that goes out and ends up with a new guy that they are just so smitten with that both lips are salavating (foreplay not even necessary lmao)....she'll be up and down his rod like as if his jizz contains the secret to eternal life.....pain? magically gone. IMHO.... they just arent into you...apparently to the point of a physical manifestation. You could do special excercises to help but all thats doing is just buying you time Thanks for the input, but no, she's not seeing anyone else. Could "resolve" some of these questions and issues if there were someone else involved... As a man, might almost prefer that rather than how it is now, knowing that she doesn't really want me sexually, which just kills me... Edited October 26, 2011 by Floridaman Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 As a man, might almost prefer that rather than how it is now, knowing that she doesn't really want me sexually, which just kills me... It is obvious how much it is hurting you. But it is true. She just doesn't really want you sexually. You didn't have much experience getting into this relationship. If you had, you might have seen "signs" much earlier on, and made a more informed choice about marrying her. From what you've posted, her sexual interest and comfort has always been on the "low" end (sex once a week at the beginning of a relationship is low, refusing to try things like oral is uncommon, etc). At some point, you have to accept the situation for what it is, and decide what you want to do about it. If you stay with her, miserably, you can not put your misery entirely on her. If you want to end your misery, you may have to leave. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 I haven't read all the posts either, so my apologies if I'm way off-course. But you mentioned NO intimacy whatsoever... and the reason for that was that vaginal intercourse hurts?? Does not really compute. Is it her or you that is opposed to cuddling, manual, oral, anal, mutual masturbation, frottage, etc while seeing a doctor to solve the hurting issue? Edit: Oops, just read xxoo's post. In that case, I really don't think solving the physical vaginal pain will solve anything. Link to post Share on other sites
StoneCold Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Thanks for the input, but no, she's not seeing anyone else. Could "resolve" some of these questions and issues if there were someone else involved... As a man, might almost prefer that rather than how it is now, knowing that she doesn't really want me sexually, which just kills me... I'm not implying that shes seeing someone else.....it was just an example to question the argument that it is simply "the pain"... my point is it seems like shes just not into you...sorry Link to post Share on other sites
Author Floridaman Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 (edited) You didn't have much experience getting into this relationship. If you had, you might have seen "signs" much earlier on, and made a more informed choice about marrying her. You think that could have affected things or made things better had I not been so "inexperienced" and lived like a semi-virgin during my 20s? TBH, thought that was the thing to do, was living a moral life, was stronger in my faith and thought I was doing everything right by not pressing women, caring for their feelings, etc. Thought some (many?) women would respect and maybe appreciate that. In case I hadn't posted it in this thread, I had sex 3X in HS, same girl but a condom scare made me rethink things and stopped. Then 2 sep. X in mid-20s.... plus some "everything....but" in my late 20s I detailed earlier. From what you've posted, her sexual interest and comfort has always been on the "low" end (sex once a week at the beginning of a relationship is low, refusing to try things like oral is uncommon, etc). We started 4 mos. into our relationship. It was an LDR. We lived a couple hours drive away from each other. It had been 4 years since I had last had sex, those two casual incidents @25-26 posted about elsewhere on LS... If I could re-live my 20s, would certainly have done things a lot differently, like not being so shy in my early 20s, that's for sure. Edited October 26, 2011 by Floridaman Link to post Share on other sites
StoneCold Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 TBH, thought that was the thing to do, was living a moral life, was stronger in my faith and thought I was doing everything right by not pressing women, caring for their feelings, etc. Thought some (many?) women would respect and maybe appreciate that. . I know I'm going to get flamed for this but.... I know what you mean about the above. I bought into that "garbage" way back too. the "moral" life..the "do the right thing" life...the "pussified 'man'" life, and you know where it got me? nowhere....the short end of the stick...the long line up...second string; call it what you like. It did nothing for me except make me feel like a goof. They said: "oh you are better than them".....I didnt think so. I thought I was worse because I ripped myself off....to rip someone off is one thing but to do it to yourself is unforgivable "oh you are up there and they are down there" .....didnt feel this way either Thank god I came to my senses sooner than later..... Look out for yourself Floridaman...because nobody will do it for you Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Considering all the posts we see on LS about how single women who were happily giving it to their guy before marriage and now isn't at all interested after marriage, I doubt engaging in a lot of premarital sex is going to give anyone a good idea of what things will be like after several years of marriage. I think it is far better to make sure beforehand that the person you marry has a good attitude towards sex, does not have hangups or inhibitions that are going to interfere with a normal sex life, and most importantly, has an attitude of giving to and pleasing her husband in other ways in addition to sex, so sex becomes a part of wanting to please her husband, and that goal of pleasing her husband is very important to her. That is an attitute that can come out before marriage, through open discussions with your partner. As we've seen on this board, willingness to engage in premarital sex is not any indicator of the frequency of sex after marriage. It's an attitude and desire of wanting to please your husband in general that is the better indicator of how frequent your sex life will be after marriage. Maybe FMs wife had some hangups about sex that is still encroaching on her general attitude about it. But she certainly does not have the attitude of wanting to please her husband if she is denying this need despite his desperate requests. I just can't imagine a wife who loves her husband and is being so rejecting. That is not Biblical. I would suggest that Floridaman go to MC with the wife, preferably to someone who specializes in sex therapy, who will work on those issues with both of you. Something needs to be done. Premarital sex, as we've seen on this board, is no indication of sexual frequency after marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 You think that could have affected things or made things better had I not been so "inexperienced" and lived like a semi-virgin during my 20s? TBH, thought that was the thing to do, was living a moral life, was stronger in my faith and thought I was doing everything right by not pressing women, caring for their feelings, etc. Thought some (many?) women would respect and maybe appreciate that. I think that, if you'd been more experienced, you would have seen much more clearly that your wife (gf at the time) had a lot of hang ups about sex. I'm not religious. I don't believe sex between adults in a loving, caring relationship is immoral. I don't understand the dynamic of pressuring an adult dating partner into sex (in an exclusive relationship). When I fell in love with my husband, it was very obvious that I wanted sex. No need to pressure at all I do believe that the culture of "premarital sex is bad" and "women should resist pressure for sex" can make things much more difficult than it needs to be--for both men and women. Link to post Share on other sites
StoneCold Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Considering all the posts we see on LS about how single women who were happily giving it to their guy before marriage and now isn't at all interested after marriage, I doubt engaging in a lot of premarital sex is going to give anyone a good idea of what things will be like after several years of marriage. I think it is far better to make sure beforehand that the person you marry has a good attitude towards sex, does not have hangups or inhibitions that are going to interfere with a normal sex life, and most importantly, has an attitude of giving to and pleasing her husband in other ways in addition to sex, so sex becomes a part of wanting to please her husband, and that goal of pleasing her husband is very important to her. That is an attitute that can come out before marriage, through open discussions with your partner. As we've seen on this board, willingness to engage in premarital sex is not any indicator of the frequency of sex after marriage. It's an attitude and desire of wanting to please your husband in general that is the better indicator of how frequent your sex life will be after marriage. Maybe FMs wife had some hangups about sex that is still encroaching on her general attitude about it. But she certainly does not have the attitude of wanting to please her husband if she is denying this need despite his desperate requests. I just can't imagine a wife who loves her husband and is being so rejecting. That is not Biblical. I would suggest that Floridaman go to MC with the wife, preferably to someone who specializes in sex therapy, who will work on those issues with both of you. Something needs to be done. Premarital sex, as we've seen on this board, is no indication of sexual frequency after marriage. OK so you are big on communicating about sex...thats clear...and that sex before marriage is not a gauge of sex while married....makes sense.....but what else are you saying? ..... That premarital sex is not good? or that you shouldnt have it? For some reason thats the impression I get. Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 OK so you are big on communicating about sex...thats clear...and that sex before marriage is not a gauge of sex while married....makes sense.....but what else are you saying? ..... That premarital sex is not good? or that you shouldnt have it? For some reason thats the impression I get. People have to decide for themselves, based on their own moral compass and their own religious beliefs, what their limitations should be regarding premarital sex. I'm just saying that to say engaging in premarital sex is going to prevent this situation where a married guy is not getting any or seldom getting any, or is going to give him an indication of how sex will be after years of marriage, is not right. Engaging in premarital sex will not indicate how often he will be getting it after marriage. What is more likely to determine how often a MM will have sex is the woman's attitude about pleasing a man in general. If she is a warm, giving, caring person who values and gives importance to serving/pleasing a man, she is more likely to engage in sex frequently during marriage. That attitude is more of an indicator of how frequent the sex will be after marriage. And that is something you find out through frank discussions and observations before marriage, not through engaging in premarital sex. As we've seen, there are plenty of women out there that turn off the switch after marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Floridaman Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 I know I'm going to get flamed for this but.... I know what you mean about the above. I bought into that "garbage" way back too. the "moral" life..the "do the right thing" life...the "pussified 'man'" life, and you know where it got me? nowhere....the short end of the stick...the long line up...second string; call it what you like. It did nothing for me except make me feel like a goof. They said: "oh you are better than them".....I didnt think so. I thought I was worse because I ripped myself off....to rip someone off is one thing but to do it to yourself is unforgivable "oh you are up there and they are down there" .....didnt feel this way either Thank god I came to my senses sooner than later..... See your points here, but I dunno. Perhaps I should have been more forward, and in my late 20s, did change and approached women. Remember laying on the couch next to a woman I was dating in my mid-20s and wanting to "explore..." just caressing her chest... but felt so "scared," like it wouldn't be proper and how she might react. That's what I wanted to do with the woman I married (in my early 30s)... Merely asked if I could unbutton her shirt... Honestly, had no intention of going all the way until she asked if I wanted her sexually.... We didn't ML that weekend but would later when it felt more natural... Had sex @17-18, which I think scared me away from women for a couple of years. Though I take responsibility for my actions toward her, it wasn't even my idea to have sex with her and was happy just to hug and kiss her on dates, until she told me I never "tried anything..." Well, I had a car and one thing led to another... Yes, I wanted satisfaction but wanted to go about it the right way, in a relationship, as I'd messed-up before and knew what I as a man was capable of doing... So think I was afraid of myself and the reprecussions of getting too sexual. This may be TMI, and may make me look "old fashioned" or something, but thought it might shed some life on my experience before I met my future wife in my early 30s... Link to post Share on other sites
StoneCold Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 See your points here, but I dunno. Perhaps I should have been more forward, and in my late 20s, did change and approached women. Remember laying on the couch next to a woman I was dating in my mid-20s and wanting to "explore..." just caressing her chest... but felt so "scared," like it wouldn't be proper and how she might react. That's what I wanted to do with the woman I married (in my early 30s)... Merely asked if I could unbutton her shirt... Honestly, had no intention of going all the way until she asked if I wanted her sexually.... We didn't ML that weekend but would later when it felt more natural... Had sex @17-18, which I think scared me away from women for a couple of years. Though I take responsibility for my actions toward her, it wasn't even my idea to have sex with her and was happy just to hug and kiss her on dates, until she told me I never "tried anything..." Well, I had a car and one thing led to another... Yes, I wanted satisfaction but wanted to go about it the right way, in a relationship, as I'd messed-up before and knew what I as a man was capable of doing... So think I was afraid of myself and the reprecussions of getting too sexual. This may be TMI, and may make me look "old fashioned" or something, but thought it might shed some life on my experience before I met my future wife in my early 30s... Well..... I'm not going to say you should change or that you are "wrong". But your past apprehensive antics didnt seem to work out too well for you and you did say that if you were in your 20's again you'd do things differently.....and your life isnt over.....you do seem to be kind of "apologetic" about sex....why? hell if I know Figure it out Link to post Share on other sites
frozensprouts Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 is it at all possible that your wife had a negative experience when she was younger that is colouring her atitudes today? Happened to me, and it gave me a totally skewed idea about men and sex. please note: that if this something that happened to her, talking about it may be really hard for her, but it may do her some good to "let it out" Link to post Share on other sites
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