Author shadowplay Posted September 17, 2010 Author Posted September 17, 2010 Well, I'm taking a break from online dating for awhile, maybe for good --haven't decided. Worrying about guys is just causing me too much grief, and distracting from my larger priorities (graduating this semester, my thesis project). Sometimes I think I use guys as a distraction. But I am, I guess, quite lonely deep down. A lot of the time I won't even admit it to myself, because it seems like an unfixable problem. I don't have much faith in men or love at this point. I've lost count of the number of times I've given guys the benefit of the doubt and then been disillusioned. It's not good for my soul. I think the hardest thing for me about getting rejected or ignored by guys is feeling like my good qualities are going totally unappreciated. When a guy makes up his mind that he's indifferent to me for whatever reason, it's like nothing I say in conversation or share about myself resonates, or even registers with him. He doesn't even seem interested in having a good time just talking to me. If I say something funny, doesn't matter. If I say something smart, doesn't matter. If we have common interests, doesn't matter. I'm taking an advanced drawing class this semester, and on the second day the professor very effusively complimented me on something I drew that I had thought wasn't good enough. I like her a lot and she's a really good artist, so her opinion meant something to me. I was pleasantly surprised; it was refreshing to just have someone appreciate me rather than want or not want something from me.
dispatch3d Posted September 17, 2010 Posted September 17, 2010 Why not try an FWB scenario and see how that works? She seems way too (needlessly) attached. Shadow the world does not revolve around you. Now, you may have been under the impression for the last several years - prehaps you entire life from the way you talk - that it does actually revolve around you. I'm sure at this point you had thought the sun orbits your feet, the blackhole in the middle of the milkiway (spelling?) also orbits you, etc. However it does not. So thinking he doesn't want to go out in public with you because you are too ugly? Uhhh wtf? No, not the case. He wouldn't sleep with you if you were too ugly. Why even think this? I think you took a ton of strides forward in this date, and you just need to cleanup the ending of it. You realized at the start that you shouldn't be too into him, that you were going to EVALUATE him and not the other way around. Now after the date you are all hurt because you feel rejected. But are you actually rejected? Not really, he still would have slept with you that night if you so chose, and he would have slept with you on multiple other occasions if you wanted to. However, there are MULTIPLE reasons this guy is awful relationship material. Which is the main reason you should just be waiting for sex if you actually want to date someone. They are spewed all over this thread and will continue to be so since the guy is a two bit hack.
EasyHeart Posted September 17, 2010 Posted September 17, 2010 I agree with what others have said. To me, this was a glorified booty call. He likes you enough to have sex with you, so long as he doesn't have to put in any effort. And he doesn't because you were basically hounding him to please have sex with you. As to the suggestion of being FWBs, what the heck do you think this is? It's not 'dating' and it's sure as hell not a relationship. In fact, it's not even FWBs because you're not friends. All you are to this guy is an easy lay. I don't read all your threads, but I've read several of them, and it's very obvious that you are not in any kind of position to have a healthy relationship. You've mentioned your insecurities, and you clearly have very low self-esteem. The best thing you could do for yourself, IMO, is to take a year (or two or three) off from dating and work on yourself. All you are doing is repeating the same patterns and following the same scripts over and over again. How long is it going to take before you get tired of being a doormat and decide you want to have a healthy relationship with an emotionally healthy man? You attract and are attracted to guys like this because you don't think you deserve better. Until you honestly believe that you deserve a good man, you are not going to find one. And if you accidentally do run across a really great guy who loves you with all his heart, you will end up finding ways to sabotage that relationship.
welikeincrowds Posted September 17, 2010 Posted September 17, 2010 Like you think he's afraid of going out in public with me because he thinks I'm too ugly? Why am I never good enough? Unbelievable. This behavior is absolutely inexcusable. That you even summon an iota of a kernel of this train of thought -- not to mention formulating a sentence, typing it, and then, posting it -- shows that you don't deserve the dating advice these wonderful people are giving you, because you are wasting their time. And yours. This guy is just one of many *******s from the internet. Get a thicker skin or close your OKCupid account.
Untouchable_Fire Posted September 17, 2010 Posted September 17, 2010 Did I really act crazy on this date? I thought I was OK. To be really honest with you Shadow... the craziest thing you did was to let him treat you so poorly. Something must have happened before to have taken away most of his interest, or at least desire to put in effort. You on the other hand put in some effort, which is normally great, but in the face of his complete lack thereof it seems desperate. I don't know what you look like, but the other posters say that you are not ugly and they are typically correct.
amymarieca Posted September 17, 2010 Posted September 17, 2010 I've been on more online dates than I can count. It is very rare to find a guy who is actually looking for dating. 99% that I went on a date with were just trying to get in my pants. This guy is no exception to that rule. Sorry you had to go through that, but just make sure you go out with a guy who will take you on a real date next time!
kiss_andmakeup Posted September 17, 2010 Posted September 17, 2010 (edited) Ugh. I completely agree with USMC's first post. He made absolutely zero effort to do ANYTHING with you...he wouldn't even go to a freakin' video store. You texted him to confirm the date, you suggested things to do, you made the trip out to his place. And when you get there he can't even greet you at the door or offer you a drink. He is either completely disinterested or completely socially retarded. Either way, I doubt it has much to do with you at all. Personally, after all the ridiculous phone-text-tag that you engaged in between 6:00 and the time you actually met up (10:00?!), I wouldv'e said, "look, forget it. I have better things to do than waste my time," and gone NC with my pride intact. He sounds like a loser; don't let him discourage you from dating. Edited September 17, 2010 by kiss_andmakeup
a_woman Posted September 18, 2010 Posted September 18, 2010 woman meets man. Woman and man initially attracted. Woman and man realise there is nothing more in it. They lose interest. The End
gypsy_nicky Posted September 18, 2010 Posted September 18, 2010 as I replied to the OP's previous thread of feeling used, your still being used and your being played big time. The guy knows that he holds most of the say on how your relationship pans out. I bet if the guy was a little more aggressive he would've gotten into your pants again. The problem with the OP (state it again) is that she absolutely has no clue on what personal worth is/social value is when it comes to meeting men. Your putting out for a guy you barely know. All I can say is, its frustrating to watch this happen and wait for the other LS'ers to come and rescue her (which they will again). Then she will try to rationalize the guys behavior as positive and hers negative. Then the cycle begins again. THIS GUY IS USING YOU FOR SEX. He does like you, but only enough to get him off. or in another scenario it's more than likely that he's not interested and feels guilty of turning you down straightforward and so hopes that you will go away by making his actions towards you really passive. Still the point to remember is he's still getting off while this is happening.
SadandConfusedWA Posted September 18, 2010 Posted September 18, 2010 Here are my thoughts Shadow: This guy was after something casual from the start. He wanted sex and even though he is naturally shy, that was on his mind. Not connecting or forming a relationship. On date 1, he thought he would have to put in some effort into getting/maintaining sexual relationship. Fast forward to the end of date 2. It is not so much that you slept with him but the way you were over-emotional afterward. The fact that some people here were telling you that you have hurt this guy by leaving in the middle of the night and such didn't help and has prompted you to send him an e-mail to tell him how much you liked him. This is when he thought "Great, she really likes me and I can now get sex with putting in NO effort whatsoever!"... The guy is a DOUCHE. He was after something casual, but was willing to lead you on to think that something more is possible. This is NOT cool but is something that happens often online. Politician guy was the same and treated me like s#it. I had to meet 17 guys to find one that seems possibly decent now (although who knows what will happen later). You are gorgeous, witty, brilliant and talented. More so than majority of other girls. The problem is, you don't believe in yourself. The way YOU see yourself is the way others will see YOU. Most people lack insight to go beyond the way you externally present yourself. That is why you will see people that are externally overly confident in their abilities with absolutely no substance behind it, doing a lot better. It's sad but you have to wrok with the world. No point in despairing over it. Always remember, if a guy is a complete jerkoff to you this means that he is not a good person and WILL be jerkoff to other girls too.
Author shadowplay Posted September 18, 2010 Author Posted September 18, 2010 as I replied to the OP's previous thread of feeling used, your still being used and your being played big time. The guy knows that he holds most of the say on how your relationship pans out. I bet if the guy was a little more aggressive he would've gotten into your pants again. The problem with the OP (state it again) is that she absolutely has no clue on what personal worth is/social value is when it comes to meeting men. Your putting out for a guy you barely know. All I can say is, its frustrating to watch this happen and wait for the other LS'ers to come and rescue her (which they will again). Then she will try to rationalize the guys behavior as positive and hers negative. Then the cycle begins again. THIS GUY IS USING YOU FOR SEX. He does like you, but only enough to get him off. or in another scenario it's more than likely that he's not interested and feels guilty of turning you down straightforward and so hopes that you will go away by making his actions towards you really passive. Still the point to remember is he's still getting off while this is happening. so you're saying, he wanted to see me again out of guilt, because he couldn't just turn me down? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
Star Gazer Posted September 18, 2010 Posted September 18, 2010 Here are my thoughts Shadow: This guy was after something casual from the start. He wanted sex and even though he is naturally shy, that was on his mind. This is when he thought "Great, she really likes me and I can now get sex with putting in NO effort whatsoever!"... The guy is a DOUCHE. He was after something casual, but was willing to lead you on to think that something more is possible. Are you a mind reader? You have NO evidence that this guy was just out for sex from the start, anymore than I have evidence that he was relationship oriented but Shadow ruined it by sleeping with him too soon. The only person who knows what the dude was thinking before the first and second date is the dude. That said, I'll submit that even Shadow noticed a DRASTIC drop in his communication and interest level after the first date. So if he was really just trying to warm her up for sex, he'd have put in MORE effort after that first date to make sure she remained interested. But he did the exact opposite. He behaviorally gave her a "meh." and in response, she asked him if he had a condom. The only evidence we have of anything is that this guy just isn't interested and hasn't treated Shadow very well (but she let him!!). Stop blaming the guy for the way this didn't work out. Your coddling isn't helping her AT ALL. But I totally agree 10000% that the way Shadow sees herself is the way men will too. Something's gotta change there...
Stockalone Posted September 18, 2010 Posted September 18, 2010 (edited) Well, I'm taking a break from online dating for awhile, maybe for good --haven't decided. Worrying about guys is just causing me too much grief, and distracting from my larger priorities (graduating this semester, my thesis project). Sometimes I think I use guys as a distraction. But I am, I guess, quite lonely deep down. A lot of the time I won't even admit it to myself, because it seems like an unfixable problem. I don't have much faith in men or love at this point. I've lost count of the number of times I've given guys the benefit of the doubt and then been disillusioned. It's not good for my soul. Giving people the benefit of the doubt is a good thing. But it has to be done within reason. You mustn't excuse or ignore bad behaviour or view a man's bad behaviour as a reflection on who you are as a person or what you are worth. I believe it bothered you that this guy spend a lot of time talking to you online before you met and after you met, he made virtually no effort at all. That immediately caused you to doubt your physical attractiveness, when it should have made you wonder what the hell his problem was. You simply need to walk away when you aren't treated right. No excuses, no rationalizing his behaviour. If a man doesn't respect your boundaries, walk away and not look back. I can see why his behaviour would irritate you, though. But your attractiveness (outside or inside) is still there, no matter what he thinks. You decide your own worth, other people merely get to decide if they agree with you. Granted, if that happens not only once or twice, but becomes a pattern, it is difficult to not be influenced by it. Still, your biggest mistake IMO was to sell yourself short. There really is no reason for that. You have issues, but you are not a lost cause unless you yourself give up hope. Obviously, I am not exactly an inspiring example. Instead, maybe think of it as a friendly warning from the Ghost of Christmas Lost Hope Yet to Come. And even a lost cause can feel self-worth, regardless of outside opinion. For most of us following your threads, I think it's sad, and sometimes frustrating, to see you do that to yourself, having so little faith in yourself that a single dick (no pun intended) can cause you to doubt yourself in such ways. Especially when you do it with wide open eyes and against your (and our) better judgment. That's probably the reason why so many people on LS reply to your threads. They don't like seeing you like this and want to help you. It's also something you need to take responsibility for, that you are doing things you know you shouldn't. If you are a victim, you are a willing one. That you can, and should, change. You once talked about expecting more from intelligent men, that they should be less shallow and care more about substance. And then you start talking about this guy, how hot he is and how well endowed and even though he can't be bothered to show a modicum of respect, you are concerned about what he thinks of you and you do all of those things to accomodate him. And wondering if he doesn't want to be seen with you in public because he might think you are too ugly? WTF?!?! I literally banged my head against my desk repeatedly in sheer desperation when I read that. Seriously, what are you thinking when you do that? It does seem that if a hot guy likes you, you believe it means you are hot, worthy and desirable. Unless you get that external confirmation, you don't believe it yourself. By the same token, if a guy who you don't find hot (like the two cooks) hits on you, you feel that because a creepy/ugly/whatever man hits on you, you must be ugly, unwhorthy and undesirable, too. At least that is the impression I get. And that is giving strangers far too much power over your life. Those kind of thoughts aren't even healthy when we are talking about people we have known for a long time, people who actually know us and whose opinion should carry some weight. I think the hardest thing for me about getting rejected or ignored by guys is feeling like my good qualities are going totally unappreciated. When a guy makes up his mind that he's indifferent to me for whatever reason, it's like nothing I say in conversation or share about myself resonates, or even registers with him. He doesn't even seem interested in having a good time just talking to me. If I say something funny, doesn't matter. If I say something smart, doesn't matter. If we have common interests, doesn't matter. It probably doesn't matter enough. But, that's what makes the difference between being friends with someone and having/wanting a sexual relationship with someone. Also, if brains and our heart were all that mattered, I might as well be bi or even gay . In that regard, I am grateful that those aren't all that matters. Besides, you are not immune from shallowness, nobody is. Once you accept that and admit it to yourself, it'll be easier to face rejection. Edited September 18, 2010 by Stockalone
2sunny Posted September 18, 2010 Posted September 18, 2010 you required him to make no effort to see you - and spend time with you. IF it were me - and i git to his place after him being totally disrespectful and discounting you as much as he did - i would have told him that he's a dork! you stayed. it would have played out better if you'd just headed home after the games - not even stay for the movie. then you stayed... you are rewarding his bad behavior - he hasn't made ANY effort! only see him again IF he comes begging. and i mean begging with a glorious date lined up for you... making HUGE efforts to treat you the way he should. then, if he does, do not sleep with him again (sex or no sex) he needs to earn that privilege... make the men make the effort for you. you are making it easy for him to treat you like $hit... then you reward him... no more!
Author shadowplay Posted September 18, 2010 Author Posted September 18, 2010 Here are my thoughts Shadow: This guy was after something casual from the start. He wanted sex and even though he is naturally shy, that was on his mind. Not connecting or forming a relationship. On date 1, he thought he would have to put in some effort into getting/maintaining sexual relationship. Fast forward to the end of date 2. It is not so much that you slept with him but the way you were over-emotional afterward. The fact that some people here were telling you that you have hurt this guy by leaving in the middle of the night and such didn't help and has prompted you to send him an e-mail to tell him how much you liked him. I basically agree. I can't decide if his intentions were merely sexual from the start, but I do think that at some point before we even went up to his place on the second date he had decided he was just going to use me for sex if he could. People in the other thread had me convinced that it was actually my mixed signals that turned him off. Now I'm back to my gut. Saying I felt used was probably a poor word choice, since it's true that I was a willing participant and volunteer in the sex. Yet I think I picked up something unsavory in his behavior, and that's why I felt used. In a way he did use me when we had sex, because if we're right he was only interested in sex and knew I was probably interested in more. If there was anything I did that affected his behavior to me I agree that it was my messaging after our second date. I also believe the fact that I had sex with him so fast didn't help, but not really the way thatI had sex with him. Both made him respect me less and also, as you said, gave him the idea that he could screw me again with zero effort. This is when he thought "Great, she really likes me and I can now get sex with putting in NO effort whatsoever!"... The guy is a DOUCHE. He was after something casual, but was willing to lead you on to think that something more is possible. This is NOT cool but is something that happens often online. This is going to sound crazy...but at some point during the night, I got this creepy feeling that he was just screwing with me in an almost sinister way. I mean he was really pushing the limits of basic decency with his behavior, almost as if he were playing some game on me to see what could get away with, and often I couldn't think of any real motive...even sex, since he was so passive. Unfortunately, I second guessed myself because I didn't trust my instincts after last time. I wanted to keep an open mind and try to have fun. I also got some bad advice from my friend. He thought there were no red flags in our text exchange, and encouraged me to stop being so negative. You are gorgeous, witty, brilliant and talented. Aw, thanks! So are you!! I really mean that. Most people lack insight to go beyond the way you externally present yourself. That is why you will see people that are externally overly confident in their abilities with absolutely no substance behind it, doing a lot better. It's sad but you have to wrok with the world. No point in despairing over it. I know; this is what my mother always tells me. I'm really trying to improve.
SadandConfusedWA Posted September 18, 2010 Posted September 18, 2010 Are you a mind reader? You have NO evidence that this guy was just out for sex from the start, anymore than I have evidence that he was relationship oriented but Shadow ruined it by sleeping with him too soon. The only person who knows what the dude was thinking before the first and second date is the dude. That said, I'll submit that even Shadow noticed a DRASTIC drop in his communication and interest level after the first date. So if he was really just trying to warm her up for sex, he'd have put in MORE effort after that first date to make sure she remained interested. But he did the exact opposite. He behaviorally gave her a "meh." and in response, she asked him if he had a condom. The only evidence we have of anything is that this guy just isn't interested and hasn't treated Shadow very well (but she let him!!). Stop blaming the guy for the way this didn't work out. Your coddling isn't helping her AT ALL. But I totally agree 10000% that the way Shadow sees herself is the way men will too. Something's gotta change there... None of us are mind readers. That is why said this is what *think* happened. I actually didn't notice a drop of interest after the first date. Shadow was being overly negative about that. But if you look at actual facts, he still IM-ed her and texted her. He took her to the movies (still a date). He wanted to take her out eat (but Shadow felt too nervous too eat so she made an excuse). The noticeable drop of interest only came AFTER the second date.
VeveCakes Posted September 18, 2010 Posted September 18, 2010 Any date that starts in a guys apartment at 10:30pm with no plans to leave is no "date". Should have called it off before it started, at least now you can finally rest assured this guy is not worth our time.
yah Posted September 18, 2010 Posted September 18, 2010 Are you serious? You allow yourself to be rejected that many times by one guy? Wow. TBH, I don't think he was interested in having a date. Whether it was you or with anyone, who knows? He showed no interest at all. None. You pushed (forced?) yourself on him to see you.
Author shadowplay Posted September 18, 2010 Author Posted September 18, 2010 Are you serious? You allow yourself to be rejected that many times by one guy? Wow. TBH, I don't think he was interested in having a date. Whether it was you or with anyone, who knows? He showed no interest at all. None. You pushed (forced?) yourself on him to see you. Please...I didn't force him to do anything with me. If he wasn't interested, he could have not sent me that message saying he had a nice time last time and would like to see me again.
Author shadowplay Posted September 18, 2010 Author Posted September 18, 2010 Any date that starts in a guys apartment at 10:30pm with no plans to leave is no "date". Should have called it off before it started, at least now you can finally rest assured this guy is not worth our time. True, but I didn't know the day of whether he viewed it as a date or not. I got some feedback on LS (not from everybody, just a few posters) to go ahead with it and not jump to conclusions about whether he just wanted to use me for sex. A few people also told me that I was being obsessively negative when I second-guessed going on the "date" the day before. I'm not blaming them. None of us are mind-readers, and I think their advice was quite reasonable given the info they had at the time. Unfortunately, because of this advice I decided to stop acting on my instincts altogether and just go, observe and try to have a good time. When his bull**** started with the texting, I started hemming and hawing about whether to go but I didn't trust my judgment. You're right: I should have just not gone at that point.
Untouchable_Fire Posted September 18, 2010 Posted September 18, 2010 Stop blaming the guy for the way this didn't work out. Your coddling isn't helping her AT ALL. I think you are correct in this. I believe he was interested, but something turned him off. I actually didn't notice a drop of interest after the first date. Shadow was being overly negative about that. But if you look at actual facts, he still IM-ed her and texted her. He took her to the movies (still a date). He wanted to take her out eat (but Shadow felt too nervous too eat so she made an excuse). The noticeable drop of interest only came AFTER the second date. Um... I'm kind of confused about how this all played out. Can you post a timeline or something? My initial feeling was that this guy was turned off by the thick aura of desperation and awkwardness.
johan Posted September 18, 2010 Posted September 18, 2010 Hey, Shadow. I don't have a lot to add. Just wanted to say "hey".
Author shadowplay Posted September 18, 2010 Author Posted September 18, 2010 Hey, Shadow. I don't have a lot to add. Just wanted to say "hey". Yo. ----
johan Posted September 18, 2010 Posted September 18, 2010 HEY, dammit! What the hell? Why don't you say "hey" back? It's common courtesy, for God's sake. What, are you too good for me?
2sunny Posted September 18, 2010 Posted September 18, 2010 HEY, dammit! What the hell? Why don't you say "hey" back? It's common courtesy, for God's sake. What, are you too good for me? :lmao::lmao::lmao: i'll say hi to you Johan! HI! there, feel better now?
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