InceptorsRule Posted September 8, 2010 Posted September 8, 2010 Marriage has been worth it for me but I might be the exception not the rule. Also I always wanted to have children and having and raising our children has been the main focus of our marriage and probably will continue to be so for the next ten or twelve years and by then we'll be horribly old. If you don't want to have children then I can't really see a whole lot of point in bothering with marriage.
AverageJoe Posted September 8, 2010 Posted September 8, 2010 You dont have to be married to have children.
quankanne Posted September 8, 2010 Posted September 8, 2010 never EVER in my young life did I want to get married, much less expect to. And I'm glad to say that nearly 20 years later, I'm happy that it worked out the way it did, falling in love and marrying the guy, because my life would have been that much poorer had it not been for that leap of faith. As much as I tend to grip, I love being married to him.
that girl Posted September 8, 2010 Posted September 8, 2010 There are pros and cons to even the best marriages, but all of these guys focusing on money are really missing the big picture. Your spouse has the legal right to take you off life support. Your spouse has the right to make medical decision for you. If you love them, they can break you heart. That pales in comparission to the financial risks. It is only worth it if you really want to build a life with someone. I don't have a problem with pre-nups, but you actually have to have something to pre-nup. You cannot prenup the future, you can only protect what you already have. The easiest solution to any financial fears is to intentionally seek out women with equivelent earning power who do not plan on becoming stay at home moms. It is a myth that men are routinely screwed over in divorce. Alimony is rare, child support is for the child, and joint division of assets is 50/50. Women are more likely to be financially hurt by divorce because they are more likely to take time out of work for child rearing and they are more likely to have primary custody (child support does not cover 50% of a child's expenses in most cases). And I can say with first hand experience that I've fallen prey to this...during my last serious relationship, we had already started talking about marriage by the 6 month point...it seemed to "make sense" and we thought we were getting along so well...looking back, holy **** did I dodge a bullet... I do think people can rush into things, but I'm not so sure the length of time dating is that important. Some people are better at picking the right person than others. Average Joe's charming example is right on the money, but I don't think he gets why. A person who always agrees with you and is desperate to make you happy is unlikely to stay that way. The better bet is someone who isn't desperate for your approval but is someone you would hang out with even if the sex wasn't awesome (and it should be awesome). The happiest couples I know are skewed towards the got engaged around the year mark. Not that all the happy couples I know got engaged this quickly, but I've been very surprised by how many quickish engagements led to happy marriages.
AverageJoe Posted September 8, 2010 Posted September 8, 2010 I don't have a problem with pre-nups, but you actually have to have something to pre-nup. You cannot prenup the future, you can only protect what you already have. You certainly can. And if any poor sap of a man thinks to himself "I dont have anything anyway" tells me they think that is the best they are ever going to be or achieve. No one, can predict the future. The easiest solution to any financial fears is to intentionally seek out women with equivelent earning power who do not plan on becoming stay at home moms. Agreed. It is a myth that men are routinely screwed over in divorce. Alimony is rare, child support is for the child, and joint division of assets is 50/50. Women are more likely to be financially hurt by divorce No, it isnt a myth. Its a statistical fact. Guess what, the last I checked if you live in California and the marriage is over the ten year mark you pay alimony for life after a divorce. Unless she gets married again. What women would give that up? Not many. And that is just California, many laws are modeled after that. Its true they are financially hurt after the divorce. Why do you think some want to take every opportunity they can to suck that wallet dry? By they way, name one male friend of yours that gets alimony. Its rare.
Star Gazer Posted September 8, 2010 Posted September 8, 2010 It is only worth it if you really want to build a life with someone. That's how I look at it. I absolutely want to get married, someday. I think of marriage as a life partnership. While I've thought I was damn close to marriage in two of my past relationships, I have yet to find myself in a relationship where I could look at him and know without a shadow of a doubt in my mind and my heart that this is the man I want to build a life with, and partner with forever. But I know I will, someday...
bobdole Posted September 8, 2010 Posted September 8, 2010 Alimony is rare Wrong wrong wrongity wrong!
meerkat stew Posted September 8, 2010 Posted September 8, 2010 Set out to get married within five years in my late 30s early 40s as just another goal in life, and for other wrong reasons. After having my eyes opened as to certain realities, doubt I'd ever do it. Still seeking a life partner though.
Sabali Posted September 8, 2010 Posted September 8, 2010 (edited) Besides the bachelor life just being awesome, I ran across the 100 reasons below which have many more convincing reasons (beware of the typos). Also, a copy and paste job so other crap is in there. There is a little something in the list for everyone. If I change my mind, it will likely be just having a live-in partner that isn't obsessed with tieing the know. 1.You get the whole couch to yourself. 2.There's half as much housework, cooking, and cleaning to do. 3.You can watch whatever TV channel you like, without arguments. 4.You can get home from work at whatever time you like. 5.You get to eat the whole ?meal for two? by yourself. 6.There are fewer important birthdays (spouse, kids, spouse?s parents, etc) and no anniversaries to accidentally forget. 7.Without a spouse you have can still have a decent social life in your 30s. 8.You don't keep catching every sniffle, cold and flu bug that your spouse brings home. 9.You don?t have to live halfway between your workplace and your spouse?s workplace. 10.Once you?re married most of your friends will also be married, and coincidentally (like you, if you marry) they will mostly be staying home with their own spouse?s instead of hanging out with you. 11.You can lie in bed in the morning for as long as you like. 12.Nobody sees what you look like first thing in the morning. 13.No soap operas (of sports shows, depending on male vs. female perhaps) 14.You can throw your dirty socks on the floor where they belong. 15.There?s no pressure to make the bed in the morning 16.You don?t have to worry about what the bathroom smells like when you walk out of it. 17.You know where the bar of soap has been 18.You don?t have to put out Christmas lights if you don?t want to 19.When you?re single the lawn looks a lot better when the grass is longer 20.No one snores 21.Folding clothes??.No thank you 22.There?s no fight for remote control ownership. 23.Smelly socks and skiddy underwear are not that big of an issue when you?re only washing your own. 24.On your way out you know that you?re shoes are right where you took them off yesterday. 25.We can stay in the shower as long as we want and don?t have to worry about conserving hot water for a spouse (or kids). 26.You can do laundry ? or not. 27.You don't have to shave if you don?t want to. 28.You don?t have to share your razor with anyone 29.You don't have to buy Valentines/birthday/Mother's day cards. 30.You won?t have anyone saying 'you're not going to wear that, are you?' 31.If your married and no fashion sense your spouse thinks you?re a moron. If you?re single and have no fashion sense people think you are eccentric. 32.Burning the food is not a big deal. 33.You?re not as accountable to anyone - if I want to do something, I just do it! 34.If you mess up your finances you have no one to blame but yourself. 35.You ALWAYS know EXACTLY how much is in your checking account. 36.You get the whole bed to yourself. 37.You can watch a late show on the bedroom TV and no one complains. 38.There are no unexplainable moods to contend with. 39.You have much more freedom to choose. 40.If there?s dribble on your pillow you know where it came from. 41.You never have to say where you've been or what you've been doing. 42.There?s no curfew. 43.You never have to hide anything in your shopping cart under other stuff. 44.You can spend all you want or all you have ? it doesn?t matter. 45.You never have to worry about saying what you think, or having to pretend you?re thinking something that you?re not. 46.You can be rude if that?s in you?re nature. 47.You can eat what YOU want. 48.You can join a gym because you want to, not because your spouse is embarrassed by the way you look. 49.If you get fired from work you?re not considered a loser ? just unemployed. 50.You can have friends over who behave outrageously whenever you want. 51.You don't have to worry about what sort of food to buy and you can eat whatever you want, whenever you choose. 52.You can surf the internet till you?re eyes fall out if you want to. 53.You can listen to your favorite tunes in the house or in the car and no one fiddles with the station or complains about your taste in music. 54.You can spend all night on the phone without having to justify it. 55.You can go to bed when you please ? or not. 56.You can read all night if you want to. 57.No one criticizes the condition of your car or expects you to wash it. 58.There's plenty of space in the closet. 59.You don't have to pretend that you?re interested in what happened to your spouse at work today. 60.When you?re single there is a LOT less drama in your life! 61.You can make a mess ? and leave it that way. 62.You can drink wine out of a bottle or milk right out of the jug whenever you like. 63.You don't have to write cards on anyone?s behalf for birthdays or Christmas. 64.You don?t have to excuse your behavior to a spouse. 65.You can pass gas at will. 66.When you?re single your opinion is always the best opinion. 67.You never have disagreements with what a spouse when you?re single. 68.When you?re single you can enjoy great performances of gay musicians and actors without getting that ?eye-rolling? thing from your spouse. 69.You don't have to listen to your spouse pant every time their favorite actor or musician comes on the television. 70.When you?re single you can flush ? or not. 71.You can put the lid up or put the lid down ? it?s up to you. Whatever you did last is exactly how it will be when you return next time ? just the way you like it. 72.Dragon breath in the morning is no big deal when you?re single. 73.If you?re single you can eat right out of the refrigerator and no one cares. 74.You don?t have to share ANYTHING with ANYONE. 75.No in-laws (this one speaks for itself) 76.Las Vegas is back on the list of vacation considerations. 77.Grow your nails, cut your nails ? it doesn?t matter. 78.Pajamas or not ? doesn?t matter. 79.Sweatpants and baggy shirt ? no one cares. 80.The best parking spot is ALWAYS yours for the taking. 81.Cooking your own meals never ceases to be an adventure, and never starts becoming punishment. 82.You can actually tell the bartender, "If anyone calls asking for me tell them I'm HERE baby!" 83.When you?re single you can paint the town instead of the house. 84.When you get home after work, you don't have to start work again. 85.You can tell people you?re single and not have to lie about it. 86.You?ll never have to trade your interest in miniskirts for minivans. 87.You?ll save about $400,000 in grocery bills alone over the next 20 years if you stay single. 88.College? You didn?t pay for yours so why would you volunteer to pay for someone else?s? 89.When you?re single you get to keep ALL the money. 90.When you?re single you get to hold the actual credit card and not just the bill. 91.If you are so inclined you can see a different face when you wake up in the morning, every day of the week! 92.When you?re single going to a strip club doesn't have to be a covert mission. 93.You can come home drunk and not have to pretend you?re sober. 94.You can use your own name at hotels. 95.When you?re single you can tell the person criticizing your driving to ?get out!? 96.When asked for their opinion, a single person can say "Yeah?you ARE fat!". 97.When you?re single you can lick the spoon and keep on stirring like nothing happened. 98.When you?re single you never miss all the things you used to be able to do before you got married. 99.Married people with gray hair are thought of as old and tired, but single people with gray hair are considered wise and distinguished. 100.Finally, when you?re single you can enjoy the silence any time you want Edited September 8, 2010 by Sabali
Dazzel Posted September 8, 2010 Posted September 8, 2010 I myself am pretty pessimistic over marriage. I want to do it, but I don't trust it to work. Over half of marriages end in divorce these days. I always wonder if it's because people jump into it too fast. Yet, I see some people who've been together forever separating. My aunt and uncle are going to divorce likely, and they've been together forever. Over 20 years, likely. I'm also a pretty selfish person. My boyfriend and I have the same hobby. If we get married, I would have a hard time sharing my part of the collection we have with him. I want what is mine right now to remain mine if we get a divorce. I'm very materialistic. I wish it would stay mine. Heck, maybe I should keep it with my parents so he can't have it. That's terrible. I seriously don't want to get married beause I don't want to share or lose my stuff. Maybe that tells me about how much I love my current bf....that's bad. I also don't want to have kids. People see marriage as a ticket to just start having them.
Art_Critic Posted September 8, 2010 Posted September 8, 2010 (edited) 1.You get the whole couch to yourself. I have the couch by myself most nights.. it goes around half the room and she liked the leather chair over the couch 2.There's half as much housework, cooking, and cleaning to do. Being married my cooking was cut in half as she cooks most nights, she also does most of the housework.. not that I don't clean the bathrooms and such but it was also cut in half when I got married 3.You can watch whatever TV channel you like, without arguments. I do that married as well.. with a satellite dish you can watch any channel on any TV in any room and or any laptop 4.You can get home from work at whatever time you like. I do that married as well but do try and be home each night to tuck my son in bed.. even if I have to go back to work after 5.You get to eat the whole ?meal for two? by yourself. Who says you can't do that married ? 6.There are fewer important birthdays (spouse, kids, spouse?s parents, etc) and no anniversaries to accidentally forget. single I had to remember my own families special days.. married.. she does the remembering 7.Without a spouse you have can still have a decent social life in your 30s. I just went to lunch with an old friend the other day and had a cookout with about 12 people over the holiday 8.You don't keep catching every sniffle, cold and flu bug that your spouse brings home. okay.. this one is true 9.You don?t have to live halfway between your workplace and your spouse?s workplace. My wife is a stay at home Mom 10.Once you?re married most of your friends will also be married, and coincidentally (like you, if you marry) they will mostly be staying home with their own spouse?s instead of hanging out with you. True.. but it doesn't matter 11.You can lie in bed in the morning for as long as you like. You can do this married too.. what ylou can't do is do it with kids in the house 12.Nobody sees what you look like first thing in the morning. I look great in the morning single or married 13.No soap operas (of sports shows, depending on male vs. female perhaps) There aren't any being played here either.. We both hate soap operas 14.You can throw your dirty socks on the floor where they belong. I never did that when I was single or when married 15.There?s no pressure to make the bed in the morning I don't make the bed in the morning now.. First out in the morning 16.You don?t have to worry about what the bathroom smells like when you walk out of it. If I have to take that bad of a dump I just use a bathroom down the hall instead of near the room we are in.. no biggie 17.You know where the bar of soap has been She uses different Soap 18.You don?t have to put out Christmas lights if you don?t want to I put out lights and a tree each year my whole life.. single or married 19.When you?re single the lawn looks a lot better when the grass is longer Not in my neighborhood.. HOA's make sure of that 20.No one snores I snore.. but she doesn't have any trouble sleeping 21.Folding clothes??.No thank you I always have hung and folded my own clothes.. single or married 22.There?s no fight for remote control ownership. Okay.. 23.Smelly socks and skiddy underwear are not that big of an issue when you?re only washing your own. I do my own laundry and she does hers and the little one's 24.On your way out you know that you?re shoes are right where you took them off yesterday. I put my shoes under the coffee table at night and they are always there in the morning 25.We can stay in the shower as long as we want and don?t have to worry about conserving hot water for a spouse (or kids). I do that married too 26.You can do laundry ? or not. I do the laundry on my own schedule married too I know they were only jokes.. .. Just adding my 2 cents to the stereotyping out there.. Marriage is great.. No need for a Pre-nup if you know your state laws and live in a good state.. I think most guys that make the claims about pre-nups wouldn't follow thru with it if it meant the other person being hurt and walking away from the relationship I asked for a Pre-nup once when in my early 20's and was politely told where to put it.. I learned a valuable lesson from that and later on in life after a marriage and divorce ( to a different girl ) I learned that pre-nups aren't necessary if you have things structured properly and understand what marital property really is and also understand that you can't pre-nup yourself out of unfair division of assets and leave the other person with nothing.. Pre-nups aren't for eff'ing the other side in a divorce ..especially if the marriage turned out to be a long term marriage The worst misogynist on LS is married.. so marriage can't be all that bad.. Now he needed a pre-nup to make himself feel comfortable but regardless he still feels in the institution of marriage. Edited September 8, 2010 by Art_Critic
Mad Max Posted September 8, 2010 Posted September 8, 2010 Marriage is great.. No need for a Pre-nup if you know your state laws and live in a good state.. I think most guys that make the claims about pre-nups wouldn't follow thru with it if it meant the other person being hurt and walking away from the relationship I asked for a Pre-nup once when in my early 20's and was politely told where to put it.. I learned a valuable lesson from that and later on in life after a marriage and divorce ( to a different girl ) I learned that pre-nups aren't necessary if you have things structured properly and understand what marital property really is and also understand that you can't pre-nup yourself out of unfair division of assets and leave the other person with nothing.. Pre-nups aren't for eff'ing the other side in a divorce ..especially if the marriage turned out to be a long term marriage Statistics show that women file the great majority of divorces and the laws favor them so much it's sickening. Sorry, but any man that doesn't set up a pre-nup deserves whatever he gets. Sorry if the women here are offended, but too bad. No man with half a brain is going to risk losing so much. No pre-nup = no marriage. I'm a man and I have way more to lose than the woman. The only exception would be if the woman has money.
Star Gazer Posted September 8, 2010 Posted September 8, 2010 Sorry, but any man that doesn't set up a pre-nup deserves whatever he gets. Sorry if the women here are offended, but too bad. No man with half a brain is going to risk losing so much. No pre-nup = no marriage. I'm a man and I have way more to lose than the woman. The only exception would be if the woman has money. Which is more often than not nowadays...
Mad Max Posted September 8, 2010 Posted September 8, 2010 Which is more often than not nowadays... Not more than men, no. Men still make more than women.
Art_Critic Posted September 8, 2010 Posted September 8, 2010 Statistics show that women file the great majority of divorces and the laws favor them so much it's sickening. Sorry, but any man that doesn't set up a pre-nup deserves whatever he gets. Sorry if the women here are offended, but too bad. No man with half a brain is going to risk losing so much. No pre-nup = no marriage. I'm a man and I have way more to lose than the woman. The only exception would be if the woman has money. I filed my divorce when it was time and I needed to get out. I also didn't have a prenup and didn't have any trouble.. other than paying a large attorney bill.. In my state a premarital asset isn't divided in the event of a divorce and only assets gained while married are considered marital.. Even property owned stayed mine.. but I did have to compensate for the half of the equity that the payments that were made while married because they were paid with marital money.. No biggie Now she did own her own fairly large business and maybe that helped some but it still didn't matter as I had the laws on my side. The marriage I'm in now is the same.. no pre-nup and be damned if I would ask for one.. She is the mother of my child and as history has shown my business's and property are already protected by the laws in place in this state Good luck with your self proclaimed no prenup=no marriage.. What if your assets were tiny in comparison to hers.. still want that prenup ?
Mad Max Posted September 8, 2010 Posted September 8, 2010 I filed my divorce when it was time and I needed to get out. I also didn't have a prenup and didn't have any trouble.. other than paying a large attorney bill.. In my state a premarital asset isn't divided in the event of a divorce and only assets gained while married are considered marital.. Even property owned stayed mine.. but I did have to compensate for the half of the equity that the payments that were made while married because they were paid with marital money.. No biggie Now she did own her own fairly large business and maybe that helped some but it still didn't matter as I had the laws on my side. The marriage I'm in now is the same.. no pre-nup and be damned if I would ask for one.. She is the mother of my child and as history has shown my business's and property are already protected by the laws in place in this state Good luck with your self proclaimed no prenup=no marriage.. What if your assets were tiny in comparison to hers.. still want that prenup ? Yes, I still want the prenup. I am a man and have more to lose. I can lose whatever I do have, plus the courts favor women, especially when it comes to child custody. I am not risking losing most of what I have(however much that may be) because I am a man. And living in a no fault state doesn't help.
Star Gazer Posted September 8, 2010 Posted September 8, 2010 Not more than men, no. Men still make more than women. Perhaps on average, but not so of 90% of my friends or women in my age group. My friends' husbands didn't want a pre-nup, wouldn't have helped them in the end. And until I took my very new job, which included a pay cut and a glass ceiling in terms of maxing out salary-wise, I'd have been hard pressed to find a guy who would have earned more than me.
that girl Posted September 8, 2010 Posted September 8, 2010 Guess what, the last I checked if you live in California and the marriage is over the ten year mark you pay alimony for life after a divorce. That isn't true. It depends on a whole host of issues like how employable the lower earning spouse is and the ages of both parties. http://hhttp://www.kinseylaw.com/clientserv2/famlawservices/spousal/spousalsupport.html Statistics show that women file the great majority of divorces It is true that women file the majority of divorces, but the reason isn't because women are evil shrews. Most research shows men are slightly more likely to cheat. There was a really interesting study from the marriage project at U Washington that went and interviewed hundred of divorced couples. The most common situation was that the wife had spent years expressing her unhappiness about the division of labor in the home (housework/child care) and how they related as a couple. The man however was happy with how things were or was unwilling to make any changes. But eventually the woman decided enough was enough and filed for divorce. At that point, the man became very interested in changing, suggested therapy etc. but it was too late. After the years of frustration, the woman couldn't stay with him. In interviews they usually said that if their husband had been willing to change when the issues first came up they probably wouldn't have filed for divorce. Obviously it is terrible to be in that situation, but it also suggests that people (male or female) can actively prevent divorce by taking their spouse's complaints seriously. the laws favor them so much it's sickening Divorce actually makes men richer. http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/jan/25/divorce-women-research A lot of men complain about completely fair, alimony-free divorces which gives the idea that men are widely screwed by divorce when they're not. As art_critic pointed out you can't pre-nup yourself out of unfair division of assets and leave the other person with nothing..
that girl Posted September 8, 2010 Posted September 8, 2010 In my state a premarital asset isn't divided in the event of a divorce and only assets gained while married are considered marital.. I'm pretty sure that is true of every state.
Mad Max Posted September 8, 2010 Posted September 8, 2010 Perhaps on average, but not so of 90% of my friends or women in my age group. My friends' husbands didn't want a pre-nup, wouldn't have helped them in the end. And until I took my very new job, which included a pay cut and a glass ceiling in terms of maxing out salary-wise, I'd have been hard pressed to find a guy who would have earned more than me. While that may be the case with you and your friends, it doesn't even make a dent in the national average. You have to do what makes you happy, even if it means taking a pay cut. But, we men have to look at this from a logical perspective. Logically, any man who doesn't get a prenup is out of his mind. Sad, but it's reality.
Mad Max Posted September 8, 2010 Posted September 8, 2010 It is true that women file the majority of divorces, but the reason isn't because women are evil shrews. Most research shows men are slightly more likely to cheat. Research is flawed at times. Cheating at the very least is equal, and if there is a difference, women are slightly more likely. The reason is men are more likely to get caught. Research doesn't show that. Divorce actually makes men richer. http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/jan/25/divorce-women-research A lot of men complain about completely fair, alimony-free divorces which gives the idea that men are widely screwed by divorce when they're not. FYI, the article is based in England.
that girl Posted September 8, 2010 Posted September 8, 2010 Logically, any man who doesn't get a prenup is out of his mind. Sad, but it's reality. For lots of men a pre-nup makes no sense because they don't have significant assets. I only know of one pre-nup in my circle (though there are likely more). The woman outearned the man and had significant family money. So she prenuped hr pre-marital investments and her two homes. Totally reasonable and already more or less protected by state law. Where pre-nups get meaningless is assets you haven't earned yet. But even if you get someone to sign something that says they won't ask for any money in the event of a divorce, good luck enforcing it. If a judge thinks it is unfair they can throw it out. And again, we're tlking about a potential spouse. Someone who can take you off life support. In some cases it is totally logical to have a pre-nup to protect specific assets. But you can't decide child custody or say your spouse should leave with nothing in a pre-nup.
meerkat stew Posted September 8, 2010 Posted September 8, 2010 and only assets gained while married are considered marital.. This is a big illusion in many states. Using an individual account for marital expenses one single time can bring it into the "marital estate." Any improvement or repair done on pre-marital property can bring it into the estate. Relying on the letter of the law in one's state is a mistake also, it's much more about the judge and how unscrupulous the lawyers are than the the express wording of the statutes. Anyone contemplating marriage who has significant, individual assets entering the marriage should protect those assets via express agreement prior to marriage. Not doing so is foolhardy. As far as divorce benefitting women more generally, it depends, but if she left any kind of decent paying career to stay home and raise the kids, watch out, and this is very often how things play out. Moreoever, anyone who says "child support" is just for the kids is deluded. It should properly be called "child and ex support" the way it is handled by many judges. If nothing else is taken from the above, do know that whether one will be screwed in divorce court is more a matter of the individual judge than anything else, and you have no control over that factor.
Art_Critic Posted September 8, 2010 Posted September 8, 2010 plus the courts favor women, especially when it comes to child custody. You do know that child custody and child support cannot be prenup'd ?
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