Why are Aspies so horrible with dating?

[Els]

First, I support the idea of adopting children who need a good home and family - no question there...

 

But you admit that AS is "less severe than that" but then in order to support your point, you go right back to arguing on the basis of a "severe genetic disorder..." This whole line of discussion was ignited by this comment:

 

I suggested Huntington's to see if kdark's response would vary depending on the severity and heritability of illness. It proved that he is evidently just caught up in the idea that people should never be faulted for exercising their right to have children no matter what the circumstances, based on his reply. Thus his stand on AS is due to that mindset, and not because he questions the heritability of AS or the rationale of forgoing children for a non-fatal disorder, or any such thing. It is always good to know one's opponent so as to know where to direct the focus of debate.

 

And did you not respond to the Huntington's part of my question as well? Thus my response to you was based on your response to me. The AS part was a separate entity altogether, unrelated to my response to you, in an effort to bring the thread back to its topic.

[Amy35]

I've posted a few times on LS...I lurk a lot....

 

But never have I read such *** as I have in this thread.

 

My son is with AS, Dyspraxia and is on the Autistic Spectrum. If you have any "non-judgemental" questions you want to ask me, feel free.

 

If you are of the like who prefer to be ignorant on such matters....then save your breath.

 

My son is nearly 18, and in all that time we have both had to deal with pedantic, plebonian ignorami.

 

When reading such shocking lines such as "it's a genetic thing" or "AS people are incapable of love"...well then my judgements and perceptions of ignorami are confirmed. If you think AS people are incapable of love...how about looking in your own mirror and learning not to be so god damn needy.

 

Who fancies bringing it on? Because seriously, of all the subjects anyone could have picked to ignite me in this way....it would be this very topic.

[Els]

Most people with half a brain don't think people with AS are incapable of love, Amy. What many of us are saying is that they find difficulties expressing it in ways deemed acceptable by the majority of the human population. This would pose a significant challenge in developing interpersonal relationships, especially of the intimate type.

[Amy35]

Most people with half a brain don't think people with AS are incapable of love, Amy. What many of us are saying is that they find difficulties expressing it in ways deemed acceptable by the majority of the human population. This would pose a significant challenge in developing interpersonal relationships, especially of the intimate type.

 

Does the same apply to people with DS? CP? Or Stephen Hawkins, who in fact his wife married him knowing he could possibly die from his condition and has gone on to reproduce?

 

I felt compelled to type....truly I shook my head at the posts on this thread.

 

My son has had girlfriends.....and has quite possibly one of the biggest social circles known to man. Everyone who knows my son understands and is fully accepting of who he is. Anyone who doesn't....we regard that it's their loss.

 

Just irked me. The whole tone of the thread was just

[Ross PK]

I agree, and I apologize if I participated in that by biting on the "what if you would die by age 30" analogy...

 

 

 

Aside from the arrogance of the "do you not care...no I don't think you do" statement here, when did we start equating Huntingtons with Aspergers?

 

Who's equated Huntingtons with Aspergers? I know I haven't.

 

I said the do not care line because kdark was being unnecessarily offensive towards bac, telling him he sounds screwed up and assuming he advocates steralization of people with genetic disorders. Just because bac doesn't think it's a good idea for people to have a kid if they know that the kid will most likely have a disability which will make his life miserable.

 

I only took the moral high ground with her because she was doing it to bac.

[Jessica1987]

I (unwittingly) dated a guy with AS three times (I think it was a year ago or so).

 

On the first date, I thought he was shy and nervous.

 

On the second, I thought he was trying to be cool, but was still shy and awkward.

 

But, on the third (and final) date, it was dramatically obvious I had given him too much credit, as his AS was on full display. To say that someone with AS misses social cues is an understatement. This guy, despite having an MBA, holding a high level job, being very bright, articulate, etc., was afflicted with AS, which meant he had no ability to empathize, and pretty much only considered himself.

 

Honestly, I don't see how anyone COULD have a relationship with someone with AS, because they don't connect on a normal emotional level. AS is a form of autism, so though I do believe people with AS feel love and pain like normal functioning adults, when it comes to the daily interactions of relating to others on the most basic of levels, they miss the boat entirely.

 

Though I know it isn't their intent or goal, their responses and actions come off as intensely selfish, self-serving, and lacking in consideration for another.

 

So, to wonder why someone with AS can't date well, there's your answer from someone who, unknowingly, attempted it, and quickly aborted it in frustration.

 

I think someone with AS would do well to date someone who doesn't like a lot of intimacy, and who is terribly easy-going, and independent.

 

My sister's husband has AS but has the ability to emphasize. He's very loving. She was a popular girl in college and she had a lot of options. Jilly Bean -- you take someone with a severe form of AS and generalize from one man and three dates and you do not understand how different people with AS can be from each other. My sister needs a lot of intimacy and they are -- in intimate couple. You are the last person who should be giving advice about AS.

[Jessica1987]

Most people with half a brain don't think people with AS are incapable of love, Amy. What many of us are saying is that they find difficulties expressing it in ways deemed acceptable by the majority of the human population. This would pose a significant challenge in developing interpersonal relationships, especially of the intimate type.

 

Only some people with more severe AS have this issue. The generalizing does no one any good.

[Trimmer]

I suggested Huntington's to see if kdark's response would vary depending on the severity and heritability of illness. It proved that he is evidently just caught up in the idea that people should never be faulted for exercising their right to have children no matter what the circumstances, based on his reply. Thus his stand on AS is due to that mindset, and not because he questions the heritability of AS or the rationale of forgoing children for a non-fatal disorder, or any such thing. It is always good to know one's opponent so as to know where to direct the focus of debate.

 

And did you not respond to the Huntington's part of my question as well? Thus my response to you was based on your response to me. The AS part was a separate entity altogether, unrelated to my response to you, in an effort to bring the thread back to its topic.

All fair points. I'm comfortable leaving it with the general comment on which I think we agree, which is that parents with a given disorder/condition should be thoughtful about the likelihood of passing that condition on to offspring, and the effects it may have on an offspring's life.

 

I've posted a few times on LS...I lurk a lot....

 

But never have I read such *** as I have in this thread.

 

My son is with AS, Dyspraxia and is on the Autistic Spectrum. If you have any "non-judgemental" questions you want to ask me, feel free.

 

If you are of the like who prefer to be ignorant on such matters....then save your breath.

 

My son is nearly 18, and in all that time we have both had to deal with pedantic, plebonian ignorami.

 

When reading such shocking lines such as "it's a genetic thing" or "AS people are incapable of love"...well then my judgements and perceptions of ignorami are confirmed. If you think AS people are incapable of love...how about looking in your own mirror and learning not to be so god damn needy.

 

Who fancies bringing it on? Because seriously, of all the subjects anyone could have picked to ignite me in this way....it would be this very topic.

Well, Amy, good to know you don't have any difficulty expressing anger...

 

I'm really interested in how people in general make and nurture social, interpersonal connections. As it seems to me that AS generally puts a big obstacle in the path of how most of us typically create and foster those connections, (i.e. by complicating verbal and non-verbal interactions) I would be interested in hearing how you have made and fostered those emotional connections with your son throughout his life, whether you have observed differences in how you have done that with him vs. with others (do you have other children?), and your observations on how his peers, with whom he has successfully connected, may have adjusted their interactions with him, relative to their interactions with others.

 

And please correct me if any of my assumptions are incorrect, but go easy - I may be ignorant, but it's not out of malice.

[Trimmer]

Who's equated Huntingtons with Aspergers? I know I haven't.

...the extrerme suffering ... Whether it be Huntingtons or Aspergers?

....................

[Ross PK]

....................

 

How is that saying Huntingtons is exactly the same thing as Aspergers?

[Jessica1987]

Does the same apply to people with DS? CP? Or Stephen Hawkins, who in fact his wife married him knowing he could possibly die from his condition and has gone on to reproduce?

 

I felt compelled to type....truly I shook my head at the posts on this thread.

 

My son has had girlfriends.....and has quite possibly one of the biggest social circles known to man. Everyone who knows my son understands and is fully accepting of who he is. Anyone who doesn't....we regard that it's their loss.

 

Just irked me. The whole tone of the thread was just

 

Your son seems like quite a catch. It sure is their loss to those who won't accept your son.

[Trimmer]

How is that saying Huntingtons is exactly the same thing as Aspergers?

Interesting. While you are correct that my syntax is arguably inaccurate in the literal sense, you missed the underlying point of my comment, which is that you were equating the "extreme suffering" of Huntingtons with that of Aspergers. Perhaps I should not have said "equating the two" but rather "equating the 'extreme suffering' of the two..."

 

I don't want to get into a syntax pissing match - my point was that you were commenting about the "extreme suffering" endured by people with conditions, and you lumped Huntingtons and Aspergers together, and that's what I was questioning. Sorry if I didn't make it clear enough.

[Ross PK]

Interesting. While you are correct that my syntax is arguably inaccurate in the literal sense, you missed the underlying point of my comment, which is that you were equating the "extreme suffering" of Huntingtons with that of Aspergers. Perhaps I should not have said "equating the two" but rather "equating the 'extreme suffering' of the two..."

 

I don't want to get into a syntax pissing match - my point was that you were commenting about the "extreme suffering" endured by people with conditions, and you lumped Huntingtons and Aspergers together, and that's what I was questioning. Sorry if I didn't make it clear enough.

 

I was just talking about someone suffering really badly, whatever disability or disease they have. I didn't mean to make it come across as though I thought the level of suffering from Huntingtons and Aspergers Syndrome was exactly the same.

[ADF]

One of the key symptoms of Asberger's is an inability to process social cues. People with the syndrome often come across as eccentric, selfish or rude because of this.

 

The sister of one Asperger's sufferer talked about the time she went with her brother to a job interiew. He had always wanted to work in an office, and imagined it would be something like the offices of Ewing Oil on the T show "Dallas."

 

But as soon as he entered the office, the Aspie brother said--out loud in front of eeryone--that he didn't want the job because there were black peopled working there. He said his sister should find him a job in an office where only white people worked.

 

Try to imagine a person like that findind a BF or GF.

[Jessica1987]

One of the key symptoms of Asberger's is an inability to process social cues. People with the syndrome often come across as eccentric, selfish or rude because of this.

 

The sister of one Asperger's sufferer talked about the time she went with her brother to a job interiew. He had always wanted to work in an office, and imagined it would be something like the offices of Ewing Oil on the T show "Dallas."

 

But as soon as he entered the office, the Aspie brother said--out loud in front of eeryone--that he didn't want the job because there were black peopled working there. He said his sister should find him a job in an office where only white people worked.

 

Try to imagine a person like that findind a BF or GF.

 

Most who have AS have a harder time recognizing social cues but not an impossible time. They may not regognize when a woman is interested in them and my sister had to make the first move with her now husband. Your example is atypical and there's much more than AS going on there. I can't even stomach what I'm reading here. ADF -- why not blame the high property taxes on Long Island on AS too.

[Toki]

ADF makes it seem like everyone with AS is the same, they aren't drones, they're people who are as different in personality and mannerism as anyone else. It's like saying everyone with cancer is the same person... It's ridiculous, because there's so many different types of cancer with differing severity.

[Green]

Interesting. What evidence did you collect and analyze that led you to this conclusion?

 

Well I came to this conclusion because of the fact that people like to retrospectively diagnose people with AS like Einstein. From what I know it has no physical characteristics, and it is not necesarily something that needs to be "cured."

 

Those are the reasons I think it is a pointless made up termonology.

 

I've posted a few times on LS...I lurk a lot....

 

But never have I read such *** as I have in this thread.

 

My son is with AS, Dyspraxia and is on the Autistic Spectrum. If you have any "non-judgemental" questions you want to ask me, feel free.

 

If you are of the like who prefer to be ignorant on such matters....then save your breath.

 

My son is nearly 18, and in all that time we have both had to deal with pedantic, plebonian ignorami.

 

When reading such shocking lines such as "it's a genetic thing" or "AS people are incapable of love"...well then my judgements and perceptions of ignorami are confirmed. If you think AS people are incapable of love...how about looking in your own mirror and learning not to be so god damn needy.

 

Who fancies bringing it on? Because seriously, of all the subjects anyone could have picked to ignite me in this way....it would be this very topic.

 

You sound like a very angry person. What good has it done to have your son diagnosed with AS? In my opinion labeling some one like this does more harm. It's like calling some one a nerd, sure some one can be proud of being called a nerd but for the most part it is just pointless and mean.

 

One of the key symptoms of Asberger's is an inability to process social cues. People with the syndrome often come across as eccentric, selfish or rude because of this.

 

The sister of one Asperger's sufferer talked about the time she went with her brother to a job interiew. He had always wanted to work in an office, and imagined it would be something like the offices of Ewing Oil on the T show "Dallas."

 

But as soon as he entered the office, the Aspie brother said--out loud in front of eeryone--that he didn't want the job because there were black peopled working there. He said his sister should find him a job in an office where only white people worked.

 

Try to imagine a person like that findind a BF or GF.

 

Being horible at dating and to a lesser level at making friends would all be symptoms you would use to clasify some one as AS. So to address the topic of this thread "Why are Aspies so horrible with dating" if some one was really good at dating then by that act alone they would not have AS.

 

Most who have AS have a harder time recognizing social cues but not an impossible time. They may not regognize when a woman is interested in them and my sister had to make the first move with her now husband. Your example is atypical and there's much more than AS going on there. I can't even stomach what I'm reading here. ADF -- why not blame the high property taxes on Long Island on AS too.

 

AS is like IBS it means a lot of things and aplies differently to different people. I really don't believe with just labeling some one with AS.

[Trimmer]

Well I came to this conclusion because of the fact that people like to retrospectively diagnose people with AS like Einstein. From what I know it has no physical characteristics, and it is not necesarily something that needs to be "cured."

 

Those are the reasons I think it is a pointless made up termonology.

You disagree with it because "people" throw it around incorrectly? Isn't that kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater?

 

And I guess shouldn't be diagnosed with depression or dyslexia, then, since they don't have physical characteristics.

 

Being horible at dating and to a lesser level at making friends would all be symptoms you would use to clasify some one as AS. So to address the topic of this thread "Why are Aspies so horrible with dating" if some one was really good at dating then by that act alone they would not have AS.

Your logical flaws are astounding. Not that I'm labeling you or anything...

 

I guess what I'm saying is that I hear that you have a problem with armchair diagnosticians throwing around the Aspergers "label" when they don't know what they're talking about. I agree, and I have the same issue with armchair psychologists who claim that AS is nothing but a new label for nerds and geeks. Neither of them are qualified to make such proclamations.

Edited May 16, 2010 by Trimmer

[Green]

You disagree with it because "people" throw it around incorrectly? Isn't that kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater?

 

And I guess shouldn't be diagnosed with depression or dyslexia, then, since they don't have physical characteristics.

 

I also have a lot of problems with depression and dyslexia... but that is getting a little off topic.

 

 

Your logical flaws are astounding. Not that I'm labeling you or anything...

 

I guess what I'm saying is that I hear that you have a problem with armchair diagnosticians throwing around the Aspergers "label" when they don't know what they're talking about. I agree, and I have the same issue with armchair psychologists who claim that AS is nothing but a new label for nerds and geeks. Neither of them are qualified to make such proclamations.

 

It doesn't take much to astound you then.

 

But then you go on to agree with everything you think I was saying. I do take it one step farther and say that comming up with this new term AS to label something that has already been labeled with mean names such as Nerd, Dork, Geek... It is pointless.

[Trimmer]

I also have a lot of problems with depression and dyslexia... but that is getting a little off topic.

 

 

 

 

It doesn't take much to astound you then.

 

But then you go on to agree with everything you think I was saying. I do take it one step farther and say that comming up with this new term AS to label something that has already been labeled with mean names such as Nerd, Dork, Geek... It is pointless.

No, I don't agree with EVERYTHING you were saying - I'm agreeing that I don't think armchair psychologists posting on message boards are qualified to diagnose AS, and in that I think you and I agree. You seem to extend that to say ".. and therefore, such a label should not exist and should not be applied to anyone."

 

Where we disagree - correct me if I'm wrong - is that I think it is true that people have brains wired differently, and I think that some people fall far outside the "normal" range of brain function. Dyslexia is an example of that. It may well frustrate you that there is no physical manifestation to point to - that the only manifestation is observed behaviorally - but in a properly administered test, you can show that some folks are far off the "norm" in their difficulty in processing visual language (lexical) elements, and translating those into language perception. I have no problem recognizing that this is an obstacle for these people to overcome, that often impedes - in some ways - their development in our society as it is currently built. Whether we bitch and moan about the value of "tacking a label on it" is irrelevant - my son needs some extra, targeted help beyond what most kids need, and I'm glad that I recognized that, instead of him getting stamped with the more damaging labels "stupid" or "slow."

 

As far as AS goes, it is possible - not for you and me here at our keyboards though, I will agree - to test someone to see if they perceive and respond to verbal and non-verbal cues pretty much the way most everyone else does, or whether they fall a little or a lot off of that "norm." Again, bitch if you will about slapping a label or a "syndrome" on it, but setting that aside, I'm trying to understand (in earnest, now...) are you denying that such people even exist, or that there are varying degrees to which some people's brain wiring might impede their perception of social cues, verbal and non-verbal subtleties, etc? Or are you just objecting to drawing a threshold - the "labeling" problem - and saying "these have Syndrome X, and these don't..." ?

[Green]

No, I don't agree with EVERYTHING you were saying - I'm agreeing that I don't think armchair psychologists posting on message boards are qualified to diagnose AS, and in that I think you and I agree. You seem to extend that to say ".. and therefore, such a label should not exist and should not be applied to anyone."

 

You didn't explain what you disagreed with as you do now. All you did was insult me and then go on to state things we agree on is what I was trying to communicate. I realized that you didn't agree on everything.

 

Where we disagree - correct me if I'm wrong - is that I think it is true that people have brains wired differently, and I think that some people fall far outside the "normal" range of brain function. Dyslexia is an example of that. It may well frustrate you that there is no physical manifestation to point to - that the only manifestation is observed behaviorally - but in a properly administered test, you can show that some folks are far off the "norm" in their difficulty in processing visual language (lexical) elements, and translating those into language perception. I have no problem recognizing that this is an obstacle for these people to overcome, that often impedes - in some ways - their development in our society as it is currently built. Whether we bitch and moan about the value of "tacking a label on it" is irrelevant - my son needs some extra, targeted help beyond what most kids need, and I'm glad that I recognized that, instead of him getting stamped with the more damaging labels "stupid" or "slow."

 

None of this "frustrates" me as you put it. Although I understand now that this subject is personal for you and your son.

 

As far as AS goes, it is possible - not for you and me here at our keyboards though, I will agree - to test someone to see if they perceive and respond to verbal and non-verbal cues pretty much the way most everyone else does, or whether they fall a little or a lot off of that "norm." Again, bitch if you will about slapping a label or a "syndrome" on it, but setting that aside, I'm trying to understand (in earnest, now...) are you denying that such people even exist, or that there are varying degrees to which some people's brain wiring might impede their perception of social cues, verbal and non-verbal subtleties, etc? Or are you just objecting to drawing a threshold - the "labeling" problem - and saying "these have Syndrome X, and these don't..." ?

 

Are you that threatned by my opinion that you call me a bitch? Am I not entitled to my opinion, is it as crazy to you as if I was arguing the world is flat.

 

The simple answer to the OPs question "Why are Aspies so horrible with dating?" is that is exactly the type of person who will be classified as an aspie... They spot people with social issues and tell them they have AS

[Jilly Bean]

My sister's husband has AS but has the ability to emphasize. He's very loving. She was a popular girl in college and she had a lot of options. Jilly Bean -- you take someone with a severe form of AS and generalize from one man and three dates and you do not understand how different people with AS can be from each other. My sister needs a lot of intimacy and they are -- in intimate couple. You are the last person who should be giving advice about AS.

 

Oh, I wouldn't say he had a severe case of it at all, though I realize the degrees come on a spectrum, like most things. He could be charming and engaging, and was very bright and had a great career. Still, totally lacking in the ability to read social cues and understand emotions. Not even with just me - even with other people we would encounter. It was the oddest thing to witness how far off the mark he could be at times.

 

He was much like that character on Boston Legal, who was a great attorney, but had his oddities and emotional issues.

 

The OP asked why people with AS have trouble dating, and I illustrated a example of what they are like to date, as someone who has dated one.

 

Personally, I wouldn't date someone who was autistic (and I really wish he had told me on our FIRST date), but I'm sure many are more tolerant, or less demanding in relationships.

[Trimmer]

You didn't explain what you disagreed with as you do now. All you did was insult me...

Actually, I explained the other side of what we don't agree on here...

I have the same issue with armchair psychologists who claim that AS is nothing but a new label for nerds and geeks.

Sorry if you took that as an insult. I realize this may have become personal to you, too... But it's being personal doesn't preclude either of us from having opinions, and I'm trying to understand yours.

 

None of this "frustrates" me as you put it. Although I understand now that this subject is personal for you and your son.

Gee, I hope you're not saying that makes my opinion any less worthy? But I may be having trouble reading your cues...

 

Are you that threatned by my opinion that you call me a bitch? Am I not entitled to my opinion, is it as crazy to you as if I was arguing the world is flat.

Actually, please re-read. I used "Bitch" as a verb, and never (in this thread, anyway) as a noun. I said you were bitching. And whether it comes through or not, I'm actually interested in exploring your opinion more, which is why I'm asking you about it in more detail. You are of course entitled not to reply, but no, I don't have any sense of being threatened by it.

 

The simple answer to the OPs question "Why are Aspies so horrible with dating?" is that is exactly the type of person who will be classified as an aspie... They spot people with social issues and tell them they have AS

So with all this bitching you and I are both doing at each other (see what I did there?) I'm still interested in your opinion, and I'm trying honestly to understand it. Do you think that people with "AS" don't exist, and everyone else just looks at people with normal "social issues" and put that label on them? That it's not possible that some people have brain and perceptual organization that is a real (if non-physically manifested) obstacle to their perception of some the subtleties of human interaction?

 

Do you believe that there is a spectrum of autistic disorders?

Edited May 17, 2010 by Trimmer

[ADF]

Most who have AS have a harder time recognizing social cues but not an impossible time. They may not regognize when a woman is interested in them and my sister had to make the first move with her now husband. Your example is atypical and there's much more than AS going on there. I can't even stomach what I'm reading here. ADF -- why not blame the high property taxes on Long Island on AS too.

 

What? Property taxes? I'm sorry, but I don't know where this contempt is coming from. Maybe you know much more about Aspergers than I do. But please, when you come accross someone like me who may not be that knowledgable, try to educate me. Stop spewing hate.

[stepka]

Does the same apply to people with DS? CP? Or Stephen Hawkins, who in fact his wife married him knowing he could possibly die from his condition and has gone on to reproduce?

 

I felt compelled to type....truly I shook my head at the posts on this thread.

 

My son has had girlfriends.....and has quite possibly one of the biggest social circles known to man. Everyone who knows my son understands and is fully accepting of who he is. Anyone who doesn't....we regard that it's their loss.

 

Just irked me. The whole tone of the thread was just

Your thread has actually offended me more than the others. We're having a discussion here, and few are claiming to be experts, but you're painting us all with the same brush. I can think of several posts where people know someone and are not insulting, and those where they're just trying to understand. Some have been far off the mark, but it's just wrong to say that the whole thread is

 

While no two people with AS are the same, it's safe to say that all of them have problems reading social signals. AS is not the only disorder that causes people to have problems reading social signals, but all people with AS have that problem. It's not an insult--it's an observation, so please try to not be so insulting to those of us who are trying to understand. The best thing moms can do to help their kids with this disorder is to teach them to say, "Do you mean. . . ?" or "You're joking right, or do you mean that?" It would save a lot of misunderstanding.