Why are Aspies so horrible with dating?

[Toki]

Actually, there is some proof it's genetic but not caused by any one gene. It's more likely a corruption in the chromosomes, and can affect a child even if neither parent has a history of it. There are some indications that if autism does run in the family it's more likely to carry on to a child, but the reasons for it are not understood.

[kdark]

Sterilization is out of the question.

 

However, I don't think he suggested that they be FORBIDDEN to have children. Merely that they themselves should consider very carefully the impact of their disorder on their children, especially if their partner has the same disorder, thus increasing the chance.

 

This is a very grey area that may be right or wrong. What do you think about two people with Huntington's disease who have children? It is a genetic disorder as well. I honestly believe they should, of their own accord, recognize that by having a child they are essentially almost certainly sentencing that child to an extremely short lifespan, and thus should make the decision on their own behalf to not reproduce.

 

Just because someone can't live a "normal" life as you and I know it, doesn't mean they shouldn't have a shot at it. If two people with Huntington's Disease have come to terms with their illness and feel that they want to have a child, why would that be a problem? If they are happy with their life as a person with Huntington's Disease, what's to say the child they have wouldn't turn out the same way?

[Els]

Just because someone can't live a "normal" life as you and I know it, doesn't mean they shouldn't have a shot at it. If two people with Huntington's Disease have come to terms with their illness and feel that they want to have a child, why would that be a problem? If they are happy with their life as a person with Huntington's Disease, what's to say the child they have wouldn't turn out the same way?

 

How would you feel if you knew you would certainly die at 30 because of a genetic defect that your parents knew about but still wanted to have a child to satisfy their own biological clock and emotional cravings, knowing that this child would suffer the same fate as they? Would you not feel angry at your parents? I know I would.

 

How about if they had HIV, then?

[spookie]

i actually dated somone with aspergers. he was cute, smart, and nice, and at first, his social awkardness didnt bother me.

 

but as things proggressed, i started feeling like i was just dealing with a special need child who tagged along with me everywhere, demanding to know all the ingredients in any meal we'd be eating even tho he had didnt have any allergies. he was incapable of taking initiative, and was often completely paralyzed in social settings, making me feel like i didnt have a man next to me i could count on to protect, but a child who needed protection. and, true to description, he didnt read social cues, so he was often saying hurtful things a normal guy just wouldnt tell his gf, like he thought all my friends were really hot.

[Sanman]

Well, there is certainly a lot of conflicting information here. As for the original question. AS is, as a few have previously mentioned, characterized by an inability/difficulty to interpret social cues, act in a socially appropriate manner, etc. Often, they have what might be considered odd interests as well. Additionally, they have a tendency to be honest (much as young children are). As that relates to dating, they would have difficulty realizing that someone likes them, difficulty with social conversations, and are likely to put their foot in their mouth even as a relatively well-adjusted adult. Due to the their difficulty in social situations many with AS tend to shy away others and lead rather solitary lives. The bottom line is that the males (as it is disproportionatey male) that are afflicted lack "charm" and the ability to play the dating game. It takes a special person to have the patience to be in a relationship with someone with AS. Most want the easy spark or to be swept off their feet, few are willing to work at it from the beginning. If you want to see an adult version of AS at work in dating/social situations, check out Dr. Sheldon Cooper on Big Bang Theory.

[kdark]

How would you feel if you knew you would certainly die at 30 because of a genetic defect that your parents knew about but still wanted to have a child to satisfy their own biological clock and emotional cravings, knowing that this child would suffer the same fate as they? Would you not feel angry at your parents? I know I would.

 

How about if they had HIV, then?

 

I'd rather be alive for 30 years than never have been born at all.

 

Like I said before. It's not a normal life, but at least it's a life.

 

And just because they have a kid, doesn't mean it's going to get the disease.

[Trimmer]

Actually, there is some proof it's genetic but not caused by any one gene. It's more likely a corruption in the chromosomes, and can affect a child even if neither parent has a history of it. There are some indications that if autism does run in the family it's more likely to carry on to a child, but the reasons for it are not understood.

 

How would you feel if you knew you would certainly die at 30 because of a genetic defect that your parents knew about but still wanted to have a child to satisfy their own biological clock and emotional cravings, knowing that this child would suffer the same fate as they? Would you not feel angry at your parents? I know I would.

I don't konow - it's a questionable analogy. Of course you would be angry, but I think you're angry that your parents gave you the disorder, and your choice, if given, would be "I'd rather not have the disorder." But wait, that's not the choice you are given - the choice is, either live with this, or never have existed at all. Now, as a 20-year old with that choice, which would you choose?

 

You see death at 30 as "suffering a fate" because you focus on the lost opportunity that others have, and I certainly understand that. Death almost always means loss.

 

On the other side, though, can you not look at a life of 30 years as a precious opportunity all in itself?

[bac]

Do you have any idea how screwed up you sound when you say this?

 

I work with a person who has Asperger's, and to say that he shouldn't reproduce because of his disorder is ridiculous.

 

I'd rather their be more people in the world like him than people advocating the sterilization of those with genetic disorders.

 

What do you know about living with serious mental disorder?

Do you know that up to 50% of those people have suicidal attempts because their life is unbearable?

Do you know how it feels to suffer daily during all your life without any break for fun or peace of mind?

If you do not experience all those things in your own shoes, how do you know that some other people want to experience that?

[Toki]

Any time you have a child, you're playing with fire... even if neither parent has a mental disorder.

 

I've gone through all those things you've listed; and yet somehow, I find it miraculous that I don't blame my problems on my bipolar, I take responsibility for my actions. I'm not saying if I can do it, most can do it, but many do become responsible, fully functioning, adults that deserve to be as happy as anyone else. Life is unfair, that's just the way it is, and you don't necessarily need to having anything wrong with you genetically in order to be a worthless POS. My own experiences with people have proven to me that everybody suffers in some way or another.

[kdark]

What do you know about living with serious mental disorder?

Do you know that up to 50% of those people have suicidal attempts because their life is unbearable?

Do you know how it feels to suffer daily during all your life without any break for fun or peace of mind?

If you do not experience all those things in your own shoes, how do you know that some other people want to experience that?

 

You're right, I don't have a serious mental disorder. But I know lots of people personally and here on these forums who have overcome their disorder and learned to cope with it.

 

You said up to 50% attempt suicide because their life is unbearable. Well, that means that the other 50% haven't attempted suicide because their life isn't unbearable. To say that no one with a mental illness should reproduce is saying that they are basically sub-human, and not worthy of living life to it's fullest, which to some is having kids.

 

If some people come to their own conclusion that what they are going through is too unbearable and they don't want to have kids because they may give that to them, that's fine. But don't take away from the people who have adjusted with their illness, and want to become parents.

 

My best friends mother is mentally handicapped. She was taken advantage of because of her handicap, raped, and he was the product. He is a perfectly normal, healthy, soon to be college graduate, and he picks his mom up everyday from work at her steady job. To say that he shouldn't exist because of her illness makes my blood boil.

[Jessica1987]

It is a genetic disorder, so the people should not have children unless they want their children to suffer terribly for the rest of their life. If you read the information about the disorder, you will understand why they have troubles to build a relationship with proper emotional connection.

 

My older sister -- smart, runs a successful business, was a star athlete, is beautiful, married a man with aspergers, has four happy children with him, and I can go on. Shame on you -- bac.

[Trimmer]

What do you know about living with serious mental disorder?

Do you know that up to 50% of those people have suicidal attempts because their life is unbearable?

 

Up to 50 % of those people? C'mon - you may have an appropriate source that puts this statistical-sounding statement into context, but please provide it to give us that context.

[Toki]

Not too mention suicide is the 3rd most common cause of death for teenagers, and 11th for adults.

 

http://www.familyfirstaid.org/suicide.html

 

Either bac is full of it, or the amount of people with mental disorders has reached the point where we should all be in panic mode, and nobody should have children.

[Trimmer]

Not too mention suicide is the 3rd most common cause of death for teenagers, and 11th for adults.

 

http://www.familyfirstaid.org/suicide.html

 

Either bac is full of it, or the amount of people with mental disorders has reached the point where we should all be in panic mode, and nobody should have children.

Well, in fairness, I'm still waiting to hear his source. It could be that 50% of some specific population with characteristic "A" has attempted suicide; that doesn't imply that 50% of the general population has characteristic "A".

 

Either way, I think statistics thrown out as facts (with weak qualifiers like "up to 50%") need to be challenged.

[bac]

Sorry, it was just my personal opinion about the potential risks for next generations. And, I agree with everyone that I was wrong doing the generalizations. I can understand that there are people who were born from mentally ill parents and they are happy and healthy to be here.

I personally do not know everything about anything and I did not happen to see that positive side of the issure. My opinion was based on my personal experience which mostly includes seeing mentally ill people in a depressing life situation.

I did not mean that my personal opinion should be taken by others as judgmental. I am sure that every person has right to make their own choices for themselves and their children.

And, the truth is that my husband of choice for making kids would be a healthy, good-looking and financially stable man. Of course, life is complicated, and healthy/wealthy parents do not always have healthy/happy kids, but there is some common sense in genetic counseling and financially stable parents who do not use illegal drugs.

 

I understand that people are different and other women/men have different criteria about how to take care for their children. I am sure that those criteria of other people are great, valuable and important and they will make their kids happy and successful.

[bac]

It is a genetic disorder, so the people should not have children unless they want their children to suffer terribly for the rest of their life. If you read the information about the disorder, you will understand why they have troubles to build a relationship with proper emotional connection.

 

Sorry, I was mistaken that Asperger d. was genetic. From what I know the cause of it unknown. I have mistaken it with a similar disorder.

[Toki]

As one of my professors put it so eloquently "genetics are reasonably irresponsible advisors. Considering you have around thirty-thousand of them, everyone has dissenters, which can be blamed for everything from heart attacks to murder to gambling addiction. There's so many biochemical factors involved with the human genome you have to make the best of the hand you have been dealt."

Edited May 16, 2010 by Toki

[Els]

I don't konow - it's a questionable analogy. Of course you would be angry, but I think you're angry that your parents gave you the disorder, and your choice, if given, would be "I'd rather not have the disorder." But wait, that's not the choice you are given - the choice is, either live with this, or never have existed at all. Now, as a 20-year old with that choice, which would you choose?

 

I'm sorry, but I find this a questionable choice as well. If never having existed is necessarily a bad thing, then shouldn't our duty to humanity, be to procreate as much as possible? Shouldn't we have a kid each year from the time we're 13 to the time we hit menopause? Otherwise aren't we 'depriving our children of existence'? Should a couple with HIV living in a shack in a third world country with barely enough to stay alive each day have lots of children? I'm sure if you asked the kids, they would still prefer dying at 10 to untreated malaria or starvation, compared to 'never having existed'. But they would only say that because they are HERE in the first place.

 

You see death at 30 as "suffering a fate" because you focus on the lost opportunity that others have, and I certainly understand that. Death almost always means loss.

 

On the other side, though, can you not look at a life of 30 years as a precious opportunity all in itself?

 

Personally, if I had to live the sort of life knowing that I would necessarily die by a certain early age and there was NOTHING I could do about it... I would prefer to not have been born, yes.

 

Admittedly AS is less severe than that, and if managed well with therapy should not lead to fatality. But yes, if I had a severe genetic disorder, I would really think twice about procreating. If I really wanted a kid, I would adopt one of the millions of unwanted children.

[Ross PK]

Just because someone can't live a "normal" life as you and I know it, doesn't mean they shouldn't have a shot at it. If two people with Huntington's Disease have come to terms with their illness and feel that they want to have a child, why would that be a problem? If they are happy with their life as a person with Huntington's Disease, what's to say the child they have wouldn't turn out the same way?

 

Do you not care about the extrerme suffering the child will have to go through? Whether it be Huntingtons or Aspergers?

 

No, I don't think you do.

[Ross PK]

I'm sorry, but I find this a questionable choice as well. If never having existed is necessarily a bad thing, then shouldn't our duty to humanity, be to procreate as much as possible? Shouldn't we have a kid each year from the time we're 13 to the time we hit menopause? Otherwise aren't we 'depriving our children of existence'? Should a couple with HIV living in a shack in a third world country with barely enough to stay alive each day have lots of children? I'm sure if you asked the kids, they would still prefer dying at 10 to untreated malaria or starvation, compared to 'never having existed'. But they would only say that because they are HERE in the first place.

 

 

 

Personally, if I had to live the sort of life knowing that I would necessarily die by a certain early age and there was NOTHING I could do about it... I would prefer to not have been born, yes.

 

Admittedly AS is less severe than that, and if managed well with therapy should not lead to fatality. But yes, if I had a severe genetic disorder, I would really think twice about procreating. If I really wanted a kid, I would adopt one of the millions of unwanted children.

 

Well said Elswyth, well said.

[Jessica1987]

Admittedly AS is less severe than that, and if managed well with therapy should not lead to fatality. But yes, if I had a severe genetic disorder, I would really think twice about procreating. If I really wanted a kid, I would adopt one of the millions of unwanted children.

 

People are exaggerating AS. My sister married a man with AS. He does not read social cues as well as most other men, but he has so many good things about him that my sister calls him a perfect husband and has for 14 years. You people have the nerve to compare it to serious genetic disorders. No wonder people with AS have trouble getting dates and lots of friends. People judge every part of them because the misread a social cue. I know several other men with AS and none of them would even compare to someone with a severe genetic disorder.

Edited May 16, 2010 by Jessica1987

[stepka]

I read a great book recently: In the Mind's Eye. The author stated that while it may be possible to eliminate disorders such as autism, bipolar, and schizophrenia from the population, it would not be desirable, b/c we would also eliminate genius and vision. That is not to say that everyone who has one of these disorders is a genius, but you would remove the markers for it. The truth is, we need everyone--everyone has something to contribute, and as long as they feel that they can, there will be less suicide. It's when they get pushed off to the side as if their work is worthless that they become miserable.

 

I would go so far as to say that all happiness hinges on social interaction. People who don't know much about asperger's and autism think that they don't need people--of course they do. We all need other people--it's what makes us human. When they are constantly rebuffed b/c of their inability to read social signals they get shy and retreat, which creates more unhappiness for them. I also think that the reason that depression is at near epidemic levels is b/c so many of our social systems have broken down, starting at the family level.

[Trimmer]

People are exaggerating AS....

I agree, and I apologize if I participated in that by biting on the "what if you would die by age 30" analogy...

 

 

Do you not care about the extrerme suffering the child will have to go through? Whether it be Huntingtons or Aspergers?

 

No, I don't think you do.

Aside from the arrogance of the "do you not care...no I don't think you do" statement here, when did we start equating Huntingtons with Aspergers?

 

Personally, if I had to live the sort of life knowing that I would necessarily die by a certain early age and there was NOTHING I could do about it... I would prefer to not have been born, yes.

 

Admittedly AS is less severe than that, and if managed well with therapy should not lead to fatality. But yes, if I had a severe genetic disorder, I would really think twice about procreating. If I really wanted a kid, I would adopt one of the millions of unwanted children.

First, I support the idea of adopting children who need a good home and family - no question there...

 

But you admit that AS is "less severe than that" but then in order to support your point, you go right back to arguing on the basis of a "severe genetic disorder..." This whole line of discussion was ignited by this comment:

 

It is a genetic disorder, so the people should not have children unless they want their children to suffer terribly for the rest of their life.

Whether it is a genetic disorder, and whether it is genetically transmitted are two different things, and the characterization of "suffering terribly" in this statement (which was in the context of AS only) is certaily overblown.

 

Just before this went off into discussions of Huntingtons, dying by age 30, and disorders that cause "terrible suffering" (none of which are associated with AS), you pointed out, quite reasonably I think, that anyone with a significant disorder should consider the potential impact on their offspring, and I can agree with that, especially when such consideration incorporates realistic and accurate information about inheritability, the true nature of the given condition, etc.

Edited May 16, 2010 by Trimmer

[Jilly Bean]

I (unwittingly) dated a guy with AS three times (I think it was a year ago or so).

 

On the first date, I thought he was shy and nervous.

 

On the second, I thought he was trying to be cool, but was still shy and awkward.

 

But, on the third (and final) date, it was dramatically obvious I had given him too much credit, as his AS was on full display. To say that someone with AS misses social cues is an understatement. This guy, despite having an MBA, holding a high level job, being very bright, articulate, etc., was afflicted with AS, which meant he had no ability to empathize, and pretty much only considered himself.

 

Honestly, I don't see how anyone COULD have a relationship with someone with AS, because they don't connect on a normal emotional level. AS is a form of autism, so though I do believe people with AS feel love and pain like normal functioning adults, when it comes to the daily interactions of relating to others on the most basic of levels, they miss the boat entirely.

 

Though I know it isn't their intent or goal, their responses and actions come off as intensely selfish, self-serving, and lacking in consideration for another.

 

So, to wonder why someone with AS can't date well, there's your answer from someone who, unknowingly, attempted it, and quickly aborted it in frustration.

 

I think someone with AS would do well to date someone who doesn't like a lot of intimacy, and who is terribly easy-going, and independent.

[Green]

I (unwittingly) dated a guy with AS three times (I think it was a year ago or so).

 

On the first date, I thought he was shy and nervous.

 

On the second, I thought he was trying to be cool, but was still shy and awkward.

 

But, on the third (and final) date, it was dramatically obvious I had given him too much credit, as his AS was on full display. To say that someone with AS misses social cues is an understatement. This guy, despite having an MBA, holding a high level job, being very bright, articulate, etc., was afflicted with AS, which meant he had no ability to empathize, and pretty much only considered himself.

 

Honestly, I don't see how anyone COULD have a relationship with someone with AS, because they don't connect on a normal emotional level. AS is a form of autism, so though I do believe people with AS feel love and pain like normal functioning adults, when it comes to the daily interactions of relating to others on the most basic of levels, they miss the boat entirely.

 

Though I know it isn't their intent or goal, their responses and actions come off as intensely selfish, self-serving, and lacking in consideration for another.

 

So, to wonder why someone with AS can't date well, there's your answer from someone who, unknowingly, attempted it, and quickly aborted it in frustration.

 

I think someone with AS would do well to date someone who doesn't like a lot of intimacy, and who is terribly easy-going, and independent.

 

Did he or some one else tell you he had AS or did he just volunteer the info. Because I feel like people saying they have AS is such a crush. I really don't believe in labeling people as such.