tnttim Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 She can't control her own feelings, she needs someone to tell her how to feel. She has a sickness called co-dependency, she can't think, talk or feel without some outside influence. In your case, the OM made her feel good. When that stops she'll find someone else, and so on. If she doesn't want to change, then she never will. The first step in change is admitting fault. You can't skip that step, it won't work. She is giving you the chance to change yourself on your own terms, do it. If you change now it will help any future relationships, even if it is with your W. It seems like you caught some of her sickness and you are now dependent on her. Your an adult, you should only depend on one person, go to the mirror and say hi to him. Link to post Share on other sites
FreeNow Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 (edited) I don't think it's co-dependency. Co-dependents tend to hold on to those they love like grim death. (i.e. Don't tend to just cut off people about which they care.) I believe what is troubling her is much worse. ETA: The rest of you post is spot on, IMHO. (Other personality issues require another person for mirroring and projection of emotions too.) Many left spouses appear co-dependent so he perhaps is exhibiting a tinge of it... I know I was for a few years and thought it was 'unconditional love'. Your last sentence was priceless Tim! OP: Run Forrest. Run. When you get out there in the dating world I would suggest that you not discuss your profession until you know the person a bit. This will help cut down on the gold diggers and women looking for a sugar daddy. Of course, if you end up looking for a quick encounter one way it can be handled is... Her: "What do you do for a living?" You: "I'm a doctor." <you look around unimpressed> Her: "Really?! What kind?" You: "I specialize in the back and spine. But I don't want to talk about work, let's change the subject." <Refuse to discuss it any further. Answer with something unrelated if she asks again.> (They always ask a medical question at that point... don't answer.) Have fun! Edited January 20, 2010 by FreeNow ETA Link to post Share on other sites
tnttim Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 Freenow, once I realized I can only change myself, I never looked back again. I learn from past, I don't live in the past. I love my new life. Link to post Share on other sites
FreeNow Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 Wisdom. Link to post Share on other sites
Author mikeymad Posted January 20, 2010 Author Share Posted January 20, 2010 So does that mean that just because I want this to work that I am codependant? Maybe a little bit, but that's part of marriage. and what is ETA? Link to post Share on other sites
reboot Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 Maybe everyone should back off a bit. He's obviously not ready to give up. He has that right. Link to post Share on other sites
Author mikeymad Posted January 20, 2010 Author Share Posted January 20, 2010 (edited) i agree that i'm not ready, but it always helps to see the side that sometimes I don't want to see. I'm learning things that will help me take her down off of her pedestal, which will either make it easier to see eye to eye, stand up for myself, or just move on. I may exhibit some codependant signals myself. I don't like to be by myself, and it's nice to have someone there to talk to, do things with etc. I guess I just want her to love me the way she used to, and I dismissed some of her behavior in order to maintain the relationship...I didn't want to lose her or what we had. Edited January 20, 2010 by mikeymad Link to post Share on other sites
FreeNow Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 ETA? Edited to add Ultimately it will be up to you what you want to do. Many of us are simply trying to give you a hint about what is down that road. I didn't listen either so no stones cast by me. Link to post Share on other sites
Author mikeymad Posted January 21, 2010 Author Share Posted January 21, 2010 Reading all of this makes me wonder if I didn't play a bigger role in this than I anticipated. I don't want to wallow in being the victim, but looking at it from her perspective, I did definetely do things wrong. I was controlling, I did do things against her wishes (going to washington for 6 months), and in general i was more worried about getting what I wanted across in an arguement, and not thinking what she thought was relevant. I was just waiting for a lapse (and sometimes not even that long) to say what I wanted. Hell, I knew what buttons to push so I guess you could even call me somewhat manipulative. Maybe others' advice spurned me to be angry, to be spiteful, to blame her and not look at myself. Maybe she was justified in leaving in that she was just trying to save herself. I guess I can't be one to judge. I mean who actually has a relationship with no issues? Probably my best bet is to fix myself so I can approach her, or someone else and not mess that up. Its strange how I've seemingly gotten in tune with who I am. I guess I always knew I had issues, I just repressed them time after time. Although I still feel lost, there is something that gives me hope that I can change this, and maybe have another chance. Link to post Share on other sites
hopesndreams Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Be careful not to heap all the blame on yourself, it's unhealthy. Think of all the good attributes you have and the nice things you have done. I'm sure they far outweigh the bad. Link to post Share on other sites
Author mikeymad Posted January 21, 2010 Author Share Posted January 21, 2010 I'm trying not to, but accepting blame for me and actually OWNING it, and not just saying it to say it is a big change for me. That's probably where the smoke and mirrors of saying I'd change but wouldn't came from, I never really OWNED it. Link to post Share on other sites
tnttim Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 I have a lot of opposition on the blame game. IMO, if you are gonna dwell on it, why not think of the things you did wrong so you can change them. Change is a necessity, it's never just one person's fault. You have to see what you did, it's usually a character triat by now, and change it. This will help your future relationships, even if it's with your W. My separation was the best and worst thing that has ever happened to me, even worse than losing my mom, and best friend. I did some real soul searching and found out I wasn't as great as I thought I was. I focused first on becoming the best father I could be. I also went out with my friends to get my mind off of my problems for a little while. During the separation I seemed to lose 2 things, sex drive and anger. I forced myself to be angry at her to knock her off the pedistal. I would think of all the bad things she did during the relationship and I would tell myself "do you really want a woman that does that to you." over and over again. It seemed to make dealing with her sh*t a lot easier when I was in this state, rather than the I want you so bad state. Link to post Share on other sites
floridapad Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Mike, It's good to own your sh*t. Right now I'm sure your in a lot of pain and sulking quite a bit. It seems like your using that pain in a good way by looking at yourself. Some people choose to sulk and dwell on the loss and some feel the loss but try to understand themselves better and their part in the relationship in order to grow. It seeems like your doing the latter. Don't forget though it is a two way street. She has her sh*t to overcome and you have yours. You may not feel that she has her sh*t to overcome right now because your focused on yours, but as you heal and grow it will become much clearer to you the role SHE played in the demise. Link to post Share on other sites
WTFO Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 ....... I would think of all the bad things she did during the relationship and I would tell myself "do you really want a woman that does that to you." over and over again. It seemed to make dealing with her sh*t a lot easier when I was in this state, rather than the I want you so bad state. Exactly. This is how I deal with this situation as well. I do miss the old wife,the 1st 4 yrs of marriage)but after 9 months of Separation you see things in a different light now. So much stress,drama and lies I can do with out! My father once told me would I rather have comfort(new gf)or Friction(stbx). Link to post Share on other sites
tnttim Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Exactly. This is how I deal with this situation as well. I do miss the old wife,the 1st 4 yrs of marriage)but after 9 months of Separation you see things in a different light now. So much stress,drama and lies I can do with out! My father once told me would I rather have comfort(new gf)or Friction(stbx). Unfortunately for you the GF will soon cause friction too, it's a given in any relationship when the love wears away. What the h*ll does STBX stand for anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
Author mikeymad Posted January 21, 2010 Author Share Posted January 21, 2010 stbx(w)= soon to be ex wife And trying to tear down the other person, is that meant to help us build our self worth, like we were the wronged ones? Or to help insulate against the pain we are feeling, just substituting it with other feelings like anger, until they subside and we are numb? Link to post Share on other sites
tnttim Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 stbx(w)= soon to be ex wife And trying to tear down the other person, is that meant to help us build our self worth, like we were the wronged ones? Or to help insulate against the pain we are feeling, just substituting it with other feelings like anger, until they subside and we are numb? No to knock some reality into yourself. You say it to yourself, not her. It will help you cope, at least it did for me. She wasn't the prize my feelings made her out to be. Then I was able to look at her objectively. Link to post Share on other sites
floridapad Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Mike, "Tearing down" your spouse (as you call it) is most definately not about building self worth and if you look at it as such you will not have grown (It sounds like you get that). IMHO, it's about holding them accountable for their part in the demise, not tearing them down. Owning your sh*t is a great thing but once you have found yourself out and changed it, realize she is the other part of the equation. It doesn't sound like you are afraid to own your sh*t which is great, but it does sound like you are not ready to look at her part in the demise (which there is) and allow whatever feelings that need to come out from that. Anger is typically that feeling and it is quite healthy to feel it in this situation, as long as it's done in a healthy way. When your ready. Link to post Share on other sites
curiou Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I don't think it's co-dependency. Co-dependents tend to hold on to those they love like grim death. (i.e. Don't tend to just cut off people about which they care.) I believe what is troubling her is much worse. ETA: The rest of you post is spot on, IMHO. (Other personality issues require another person for mirroring and projection of emotions too.) Many left spouses appear co-dependent so he perhaps is exhibiting a tinge of it... I know I was for a few years and thought it was 'unconditional love'. Your last sentence was priceless Tim! OP: Run Forrest. Run. When you get out there in the dating world I would suggest that you not discuss your profession until you know the person a bit. This will help cut down on the gold diggers and women looking for a sugar daddy. Of course, if you end up looking for a quick encounter one way it can be handled is... Her: "What do you do for a living?" You: "I'm a doctor." <you look around unimpressed> Her: "Really?! What kind?" You: "I specialize in the back and spine. But I don't want to talk about work, let's change the subject." <Refuse to discuss it any further. Answer with something unrelated if she asks again.> (They always ask a medical question at that point... don't answer.) Have fun! ROTFLMAO! That scenario above brings back so many fond memories . . . Mikeymad, Some other poster asked people to consider backing off because it was obvious you weren't ready to let go. I do agree it seems you're trying to "argue" every point we make. Ultimately it's up to you what you want to do with the advice here. Be an informed consumer. I strongly advise you not to give up your chiropractic practice. I don't know how chiropractors are doing in this economy, but if it's paying your bills, keep building your practice! Don't sacrifice such a large part of your persona for a woman who doesn't want to be with you. It's like her asking you to cut off your arm to be with her. What if you broke up with a girl and moved away to college in a different state, and she let you know she was quitting her job and moving to be with you? Make you uneasy? It's similar to what you'd be doing for her. Own your mistakes, like floridapad said. Work on yourself. Realize you have some part of this breakup, and some onus is on her as well. don't give up what makes you YOU--that's not particularly attractive to anyone, let alone a woman who already thinks she doesn't want to be with you. Link to post Share on other sites
Author mikeymad Posted January 22, 2010 Author Share Posted January 22, 2010 The office is a separate issue, but yet not. I am burnt out after working 7 days a week for almost a year straight and not having anything to show for it. I know it put a huge strain on the marriage. That's the thing, it's not paying the bills, but that's a separate issue altogether. I know I can get another position where I don't have to pull myself in so many directions, and can focus more on myself and getting ME back. Link to post Share on other sites
tnttim Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 This is a Gunny quote "work to live, don't live to work" Link to post Share on other sites
Author mikeymad Posted January 25, 2010 Author Share Posted January 25, 2010 that's why I feel the need to just try and start over. I think I just made some bad career choices at inopportune times, and it magnified any problems already there. the W still won't speak to me at this point, except for the fact she yelled at me for taking our wedding flatware with me when i left, which was the gift from her parents. she's pretty emotionally distant right now, and aside from having our mail held and staying with her parents (she's still "uncomfortable" seeing me or being at the house by herself) she says that she doesn't "know me" anymore. Yes, secondarily it might show her that I am reshifting my focus, but more importantly, it will give me some of my life back. It has been all career for me, losing quality time and letting friends and family kind of fade away. I don't really feel like myself anymore, which could be a reason we drifted apart. Link to post Share on other sites
tnttim Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Do whatever makes you happy. Your W will come around whether your are D or not. You just do what is good for you, f*ck her. I bet she doesn't mind the money and security you offered. Link to post Share on other sites
Author mikeymad Posted January 25, 2010 Author Share Posted January 25, 2010 That's part of the problem, since the office was so new, I was (and am) still in "get this thing off the ground" mode, and since we started having major problems right from the getgo of office open, it hasn't gotten off the ground, so it hasn't been making money, putting a strain on us financially. I am not even making enough to support myself, and her modest salary was really stretched thin. Link to post Share on other sites
tnttim Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 If she's checked out of the M then it's a no brainer, get that business going. Make a success out of yourself, women love successful men. The monies not bad either. Link to post Share on other sites
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