My Mother is very ill..mentally

[Lauriebell82]

LB, are any of your grandparents still alive?

 

My stbx has a client, an 82 year old lady, who comes to my mom's facility every day (she really does, and knows my mom probably better than me) to feed her daughter, who is in her late 50's and has EOAD (early onset Alzheimer's), a particularly potent and insidious form of the disease. It's really sad, watching a mother take care of her helpless daughter, spending the last years of both their lives in such a situation. I wish, sometimes, I had her strength of will. Now, obviously, the nursing staff does a really good job, evidenced by how healthy my mom is at 88, but this lady just will not be deterred and spends hours each day with her daughter. It's another example of each patient and each family being different. I know I could never be that dedicated. It's just not in me. I accept that.

 

I'll leave you with this. At this holiday, if it were not for the kindness of my best friend and his wife, it would be me, the cat and my mom (should I wish to visit her). That's it. Take a look around at your family, including your fiance. Ask yourself what is important in your life. Do what you feel is healthy for you. Best wishes and happy Thanksgiving

 

No, none of my grandparents are alive. I do have my fiance and he helps through it. Thanks for your support.

[threebyfate]

I feel sorry for LBs mum. Someone needs to fight her corner, and nobody is, on here, or IRL from what I can see.

I'm not going to get into another e-penis pissing match with you where it gets personal. What I'm interested in, is the continued emotional well-being of LB.

 

On the otherhand, if LB has chosen to take responsibility for her mother, without the guilt trips of "bad girl", then this is her choice.

 

What I'm disinterested in, is continuing with this drama triangle, which appears to happen in every one of LBs threads. Perhaps one day, her threads will be geared towards less drama, more actual help. But only LB can control that aspect.

[Lauriebell82]

I'm not going to get into another e-penis pissing match with you where it gets personal. What I'm interested in, is the continued emotional well-being of LB.

 

On the otherhand, if LB has chosen to take responsibility for her mother, without the guilt trips of "bad girl", then this is her choice.

 

What I'm disinterested in, is continuing with this drama triangle, which appears to happen in every one of LBs threads. Perhaps one day, her threads will be geared towards less drama, more actual help. But only LB can control that aspect.

 

Yeah, I don't know why people decide to fight with each other in my threads. I don't know if that's my doing or not. I tend to not even argue (well a little) with anyone, everyone else posting ends up arguing with each other.

[threebyfate]

Yeah, I don't know why people decide to fight with each other in my threads. I don't know if that's my doing or not. I tend to not even argue (well a little) with anyone, everyone else posting ends up arguing with each other.

It's got to do with the personality types who are drawn to you, which tend to be the strong ones. Some want to help but not with your best interests in mind, some want to help with your best interests in mind and finally, others are more interested in winning. It's up to you to separate the wheat from the chaffe. And it's also up to everyone to understand their own behaviours and motives.

 

I'm out of this thread since there's a storm brewing in here again. Good luck with your mother. Just remember that your emotional health matters equally to your mother's. Your father and sister should also know this too. There's no shame in admitting when things get too tough, to take a breather from your mother. No one is any good to anyone, if they're at the point where they can't maintain emotional distance to an abusive, mentally ill individual. Self-sacrifice isn't a positive trait, no matter how you look at it, since it's destructive. Giving as much as you can within reason, is a positive and balanced trait.

[Lauriebell82]

I'm out of this thread since there's a storm brewing in here again. Good luck with your mother. Just remember that your emotional health matters equally to your mother's. Your father and sister should also know this too. There's no shame in admitting when things get too tough, to take a breather from your mother. No one is any good to anyone, if they're at the point where they can't maintain emotional distance to an abusive, mentally ill individual. Self-sacrifice isn't a positive trait, no matter how you look at it, since it's destructive. Giving as much as you can within reason, is a positive and balanced trait.

 

Well, I don't want you to leave, you've been helpful. Nobody is going to brew up ANYTHING in this thread. I know the people who are not trying to help vs. the people who are. I'll take care of it.

 

Anyway, I think what people who haven't had any experience with this can't understand how horrible and painful the abuse and manipulation is (my mother is VERY manipulative). I am a mental health professional and I acknowledge that the behavior is caused by a disease HOWEVER it's hard to keep that in mind when the manipulative and abusive behavior comes in.

[threebyfate]

Well, I don't want you to leave, you've been helpful. Nobody is going to brew up ANYTHING in this thread. I know the people who are not trying to help vs. the people who are. I'll take care of it.

 

Anyway, I think what people who haven't had any experience with this can't understand how horrible and painful the abuse and manipulation is (my mother is VERY manipulative). I am a mental health professional and I acknowledge that the behavior is caused by a disease HOWEVER it's hard to keep that in mind when the manipulative and abusive behavior comes in.

Okay, I'll take your word for it, that a drama triangle will not happen, since it's just a waste of negative energy.

 

If you choose to continue your exposure to her, you're going to have to work on how to process her abuse. Taking it, means enabling it. She has to understand that her actions aren't sane. But fighting it, will only cause more negative interaction, which isn't beneficial to either one of you. What has to happen is that in some way, you have to convince her that she's not sane, that she needs this care in order to be sane. When someone's paranoid and delusional, trickery WILL backfire, in that once she finds this out, her abuse will escalate.

[shadowplay]

I have not, in my immediate family. I do a lot of work with pharmocokinetics and pharmacology, though, and have seen a lot of Phase I-IV trials for psychotic meds.

 

It is just hard to imagine how I would turn my back on my mother, especially if I was in the field of expertise where she is sick. I would move heaven and earth to do anything to help her. Driving away from her is not helping her. If I thought that this was a drug reaction (and it very well may be), then I would certainly be in her primary care physician's face, in the face of whoever was the prescribing physician as it appears that she may not have been properly historied, in the face of every psychiatrist that she has seen, in the face of the ones that she has not been seen by, at a medical university, anywhere that I could think of in order for her to get the highest level of care - even if I had to (as Carhill suggested) lie about her behavior in order to get her into a treatment program without her consent.

 

Adderall (I assume that is what adoral is?) isn't indicated for depression; it can be used as an off-label directive, but is given after previous SSRI or tricyclic ADs have failed. If anything, it carries a clear warning on its label that it shouldn't be given to people who are psychotic, as it exacerbates psychoses such as thought disorders and behavior disturbances. It should never be given to patients with a family history of bipolar, as it can induce manic episodes.

 

Mentally ill patients are very often frightened people, unable to control their own moods and emotions. If they feel that they have nowhere else to turn and that even the people that they always believed would be there to love, support and help them (even if they are unable or unwilling to help themselves), then where do we suggest they go?

 

Honestly, if Laurie was a parent posting about her child being mentally ill with a variety of symptoms, would posters be so willing to suggest that she just write her child off and drive away?

 

Laurie isn't a parent; she's a child. She has no responsibility to be in a caretaker position for a parent who will emotionally scar her.

 

My ex was always caretaker for his bipolar mother and it left him with a huge amount of emotional damage.

 

Eventually he found that the best strategy was to distance himself, particularly when his mother went manic...and frankly I don't blame him.

[shadowplay]

Let me share a couple of little anecdotes from what my cousin suffered, throughout his childhood.

1. He woke up one morning, when he was a teenager, to his mother walloping him upside the head, screaming at him for poisoning her coffee.
   
2. He lived day in and day out with her accusations of one thing or another. He listened to her accusing his father of infidelity with women who he looked at, on the street.
   
3. She would walk around the home, raving about voices telling her things, sick and delusional things.
   

Just a few things to grow up with. It's no wonder that as soon as he was old enough, he turned to alcohol to numb the pain.

 

The legal system did squat for my uncle and cousin. They tried and tried and tried, until finally, she became suicidal. Then, they were able to force her into treatment. Even then, it took years to get the right pharmaceuticals to help. And of course, in the intervening years, she would refuse to take her meds and the cycle would start all over again.

 

Until you've lived with this pain, the pain I see in my cousin's eyes everytime I see him, you CANNOT know what it's like. I've seen her in some of her off times. It's frightening as hell.

 

But someone like you will intone the need for martyrdom for those who've already been victimized. That to me is emotionally abusive.

 

A few anecdotes about my ex's mother who has bipolar.

 

His first memory is of being three years old and being home alone with a terrible flu, trying desperately to reach a bottle of medication on the table from his crib. His mother left him alone because she was manic.

 

She pulled the fire alarm at his school when he was 11 (to "check the system") and the police arrested her. For weeks after his classmates tried to humiliate him about the incident.

 

Every few months he would come home from school and the house would be trashed because his mother had pulled everything off the shelves and onto the floor (including his possessions) in an attempt to "clean."

 

During her paranoid streaks she would accuse his father of cheating on her and kick him out of the house because her name was on the lease.

 

Eventually she lost custody of her son and the parents were headed for divorce...but his dad passively took her back (he's a typical codependent).

 

The whole thing is really tragic. I don't blame anyone from distancing themselves from a parent like that.

[shadowplay]

I know mental illness can be scary and painful, but perhaps what your mum needs is some love and compassion to encourage her to get better instead of anger, resentment and isolation.

 

I don't think any amount of love will help get somebody with a serious psychosis better. The only thing that will work is the right diagnosis and treatment plan.

[tinktronik]

I would love to put you into a room with someone like Lb's mother or my aunt, for about a week. I suspect your attitude would change in about 4 hours but 4 hours isn't enough. You need a week so that she can terrorize you emotionally, until you either decide to kill her or go insane yourself. Keep in mind that this is someone you don't even have an emotional investment in.

 

I absolutely agree with this statement. Being subjected to a mentally ill person with no treatment is torturous and it devastates you emotionally. LB, you have to do what it takes to keep YOU healthy. Any Dr. or mental health specialist would tell you the same, you have to do what's best for you.

[Lucky_One]

Ok. So what do you all suggest happen?

 

LB distance herself? Her H divorce her, and take the majority of the marital assets?

 

And then WHO will help this woman? Where will she turn then?

 

Is it best that she try to care for herself? Apparently she will not seek treatment on her own. How about living on the streets with the rest of the unwanted mentally ill?

[threebyfate]

Ok. So what do you all suggest happen?

 

LB distance herself? Her H divorce her, and take the majority of the marital assets?

 

And then WHO will help this woman? Where will she turn then?

 

Is it best that she try to care for herself? Apparently she will not seek treatment on her own. How about living on the streets with the rest of the unwanted mentally ill?

If Lb gives you her name and number, will you volunteer to help her?

 

Or do you feel that it's reasonable to hold someone else to a bar you're not willing to live by?

[Lucky_One]

Way to dodge a question.

[threebyfate]

Way to dodge a question.

No, there's no avoidance from me. My questions are very straight forward. Answer them.

[northstar1]

As someone who has been the sole caregiver for a terminally ill parent, I can tell you it is unbelievably stressful and draining and takes over your life, robbing you of any semblance of happiness, and this was a parent who had all of their faculties.

 

 

Add in a parent who is this mentally unstable, erratic and verbally abusive and it's certainly not fair to ask anyone to put up with this for an extended period of time.

 

This woman needs help that LB can not give (mentally, emotionally, or professionally). To suggest that she is not compassionate would be a grave mistake, if you have not been in her shoes and dealt with a family member this troubled.

[shadowplay]

As someone who has been the sole caregiver for a terminally ill parent, I can tell you it is unbelievably stressful and draining and takes over your life, robbing you of any semblance of happiness, and this was a parent who had all of their faculties.

 

 

Add in a parent who is this mentally unstable, erratic and verbally abusive and it's certainly not fair to ask anyone to put up with this for an extended period of time.

 

This woman needs help that LB can not give (mentally, emotionally, or professionally). To suggest that she is not compassionate would be a grave mistake, if you have not been in her shoes and dealt with a family member this troubled.

 

The sad truth is I believe there are some people who are beyond help (because are extremely ill and they won't help themselves) and the best approach is sometimes accept that they won't change and create some distance.

 

LB's mother may never get better. It doesn't make sense for her to drain herself emotionally on the off-chance that her mother will change.

Edited November 23, 2009 by shadowplay

[threebyfate]

Lb is in an impossible place right now. She loves her mother but has now been emotionally abused for six years. She acknowledges that her mother isn't sane but this doesn't stop the pain, anger, and confusion, since her mother emotionally manipulates, while moving in and out of sane periods. Lb is a victim of emotional abuse, trapped in guilt, shame, love, desire to help and be there for her mother and yet, also, hurting badly and wanting to self-protect by distancing herself.

 

So, rather than use guilt as a bludgeon, perhaps more helpful suggestions would be more productive. The last thing she needs is more crap put onto her shoulders. This is about being trapped between a rock and hard place. I wouldn't blame her in the least, if she just threw up her hands and said, eff it, no more.

 

Also, her mother isn't the helpless street person, who has no resources. She's able to function, in that she can continue to feed herself, grocery shop for herself, pay her bills, all those things that everyone does daily. Since the family have two properties, she's not going to be left destitute, with the divorce. I suspect that there might be a combination of ultimatum and despair, within her father. It might be part of his last ditch effort to get her to start taking responsibility for her own mental health, which by law, is something only she can control.

[carhill]

I'd like to interject that, as of yet, there is no confirmed or prospective diagnosis here. Many mental diseases are reversible and/or treatable. One step at a time

[threebyfate]

I'd like to interject that, as of yet, there is no confirmed or prospective diagnosis here. Many mental diseases are reversible and/or treatable. One step at a time

Actually, she has been diagnosed. Whether the diagnosis is correct or not, who knows. That she's seen 10 different mental health practitioners, whereby some have refused to treat her, says much, don't you think?

[carhill]

<extraneous response redacted>

 

OP, enjoy your Thanksgiving and, if your mother is at home with you, do your level best to enjoy that reality. Life is short.

[sb129]

I don't think any amount of love will help get somebody with a serious psychosis better. The only thing that will work is the right diagnosis and treatment plan.

 

I don't think that "love heals all" either, far from it.

 

I do think that treatment is probably more likely to work if a person has love, support and encouragement from their family.

 

Otherwise what motivation has the person got to get better?

 

Ok. So what do you all suggest happen?

 

LB distance herself? Her H divorce her, and take the majority of the marital assets?

 

And then WHO will help this woman? Where will she turn then?

 

Is it best that she try to care for herself? Apparently she will not seek treatment on her own. How about living on the streets with the rest of the unwanted mentally ill?

 

Agreed Lucky One.

 

I can't help but feel (with all respect to you LB) that the situation is being negatively coloured and possibly embellished by the experiences of other posters.

 

I have been on LS for several years and this is the first time I have heard LB mention it- not trying to discredit you LB at all, but don't let the drama and/or severe "experiences" of others exacerbate your own unique situation.

 

You yourself acknowledge that often your threads can get out of hand, and they can often go off on extreme tangents where extreme examples and advice ends up being doled out.

 

Don't let this

[Lucky_One]

Lb is in an impossible place right now.

 

An impossible place right now? Then why, on God's green earth, would she choose to enter a field that is apparently "impossible"? Isn't that what working with the mentally ill entails? Trying treatment after treatment if necessary, but not giving up? And surely, if this lady is functional, and was highly functioning enough to live on her own, then she isn't even close to the point of being written off?

 

So, rather than use guilt as a bludgeon, perhaps more helpful suggestions would be more productive.

 

That is PRECISELY what I asked you for above. I asked you what, in your practiced opinion, you would suggest be done for this lady, besides everyone leaving her alone to her own devices?

 

I have said that I have no first-hand knowledge; I have given her a list of resources for her state and suggested that she start there. Saying that "around 10" mental health practitioners have seen her isn't exactly precise, nor is it a statement of treatment. I would strongly suggest, as Carhill has said, that a firm diagnosis be given. it doesn't sound as though there has been a diagnosis beyond "anxiety and depression", which is what she was prescribed Adderall for 6 years ago. I would also suggest bringing in her primary care physician and asking for an emergency hearing with a judge to have her involuntarily committed under a 302, saying that she attempted serious bodily harm upon another and that she is acting in a manner that precludes being able to care for herself without assistance.

[tinktronik]

An impossible place right now? Then why, on God's green earth, would she choose to enter a field that is apparently "impossible"? Isn't that what working with the mentally ill entails? Trying treatment after treatment if necessary, but not giving up? And surely, if this lady is functional, and was highly functioning enough to live on her own, then she isn't even close to the point of being written off?

 

 

 

That is PRECISELY what I asked you for above. I asked you what, in your practiced opinion, you would suggest be done for this lady, besides everyone leaving her alone to her own devices?

I have said that I have no first-hand knowledge; I have given her a list of resources for her state and suggested that she start there. Saying that "around 10" mental health practitioners have seen her isn't exactly precise, nor is it a statement of treatment. I would strongly suggest, as Carhill has said, that a firm diagnosis be given. it doesn't sound as though there has been a diagnosis beyond "anxiety and depression", which is what she was prescribed Adderall for 6 years ago. I would also suggest bringing in her primary care physician and asking for an emergency hearing with a judge to have her involuntarily committed under a 302, saying that she attempted serious bodily harm upon another and that she is acting in a manner that precludes being able to care for herself without assistance.

 

You offer all of the resources to the individual and if they will accept help you engage it. If they will not accept help and cannot be forced legally into treatment, you disengage if it is unhealthy or do whatever is needed to protect yourself.

[Ody]

That is PRECISELY what I asked you for above. I asked you what, in your practiced opinion, you would suggest be done for this lady, besides everyone leaving her alone to her own devices?

 

I have said that I have no first-hand knowledge; I have given her a list of resources for her state and suggested that she start there.

 

TBF was the first to point out to OP that she should not feel guilty about the judgements of others, which is a hugely important and concrete point. She was also among the first to point out that laws vary by jurisdiction.

 

As someone with a ton of first hand knowledge, and who also in this thread provided state specific as well as national policy advice, I can't quite understand why you are denigrating her feedback to OP.

 

Both of you had pretty good suggestions, not sure the bickering will help the OP.

[TwinkletOes26]

Just because someone is in the mental health field doesnt mean that they are equipped to handle a close personal family member. Theres a very good reason why you are told not to treat family member.

 

Further more it doesnt sound like LB's mom cant take care of herself as far as day to day activities are concerned.LB probably is very well aware of her mothers mental illness but if her mother refuses to get help then theres not much more she can do. Lb said she wasnt "abandoning" her mother she was simply taking a break.

 

Lb is no ones parent therefore she is under no obligation to make GROWN people see about their own mental help.

 

Im seeing a lot of "if i were you" this and that when the simple fact of the matter is none of us are laurie bell everyone has their own amount they are willing to take. So to judge LB for her actions is unwise and VERY judgemental.

 

Disclaimer my opinon not trying to start a fight.