My Mother is very ill..mentally

[threebyfate]

I have not, in my immediate family. I do a lot of work with pharmocokinetics and pharmacology, though, and have seen a lot of Phase I-IV trials for psychotic meds.

 

It is just hard to imagine how I would turn my back on my mother, especially if I was in the field of expertise where she is sick. I would move heaven and earth to do anything to help her. Driving away from her is not helping her. If I thought that this was a drug reaction (and it very well may be), then I would certainly be in her primary care physician's face, in the face of whoever was the prescribing physician as it appears that she may not have been properly historied, in the face of every psychiatrist that she has seen, in the face of the ones that she has not been seen by, at a medical university, anywhere that I could think of in order for her to get the highest level of care - even if I had to (as Carhill suggested) lie about her behavior in order to get her into a treatment program without her consent.

 

Adderall (I assume that is what adoral is?) isn't indicated for depression; it can be used as an off-label directive, but is given after previous SSRI or tricyclic ADs have failed. If anything, it carries a clear warning on its label that it shouldn't be given to people who are psychotic, as it exacerbates psychoses such as thought disorders and behavior disturbances. It should never be given to patients with a family history of bipolar, as it can induce manic episodes.

 

Mentally ill patients are very often frightened people, unable to control their own moods and emotions. If they feel that they have nowhere else to turn and that even the people that they always believed would be there to love, support and help them (even if they are unable or unwilling to help themselves), then where do we suggest they go?

 

Honestly, if Laurie was a parent posting about her child being mentally ill with a variety of symptoms, would posters be so willing to suggest that she just write her child off and drive away?

Working with pharmaceuticals is very different than having a close family member accuse you of all manners on horrendous things, emotionally and now physically abusing you. Until you've had some exposure to this kind of emotional abuse, it's moot what your career experience is, when related to hammering someone on martyring their lives, to take more emotionally abusive punishment.

 

It's why mental health practitioners don't treat their own families. They're too emotionally involved, to handle this in a way that's not detrimental to either themselves or their patients.

[Lucky_One]

It's why mental health practitioners don't treat their own families. They're too emotionally involved, to handle this in a way that's not detrimental to either themselves or their patients.

 

I wouldn't dream of suggesting that she treat her own mother.

 

Regardless, turning my back on a parent or a child is not something I would find in my heart to do, especially at the level of stuff that LB has talked about here. She has listed very little actual "treatment", and as I said, I would be like a bulldog on insisting on treatment, whether or not my parent or child agreed.

[Lauriebell82]

I wouldn't dream of suggesting that she treat her own mother.

 

Regardless, turning my back on a parent or a child is not something I would find in my heart to do, especially at the level of stuff that LB has talked about here. She has listed very little actual "treatment", and as I said, I would be like a bulldog on insisting on treatment, whether or not my parent or child agreed.

 

Well, no I actually said that my dad had taken my mom to like 10 different psychiatrists! They have tried all kinds of medications and therapy regimins. She went to outpatient psychiatric treatment, group therapy, ect. The only thing we haven't done is inpatient treatment and she is really close to that now!

 

I am not cutting her out of my life completely, but I do plan to distance myself. She is hurting me too much and I just can't deal with it, nor can my dad.

 

TBF is right though, it's a little different when you have an immediate family member who is ill. It becomes more personal and the abuse is more personal. I could never even repeat some of the horrible things she has said to me, my sister, and my father. We aren't pushing HER away she is pushing all of us away with her aweful behavior. I realize she is sick but it's just so hard sometimes to deal with.

[carhill]

As Laurie's father is in the primary role as responsible party, spouse, and caregiver, I hope he finds the help he needs to continue in those roles. It doesn't have to mean active care if he's not up to that, but he should find some mechanism to ensure his wife's care, IMO. I hope they find a way.

[threebyfate]

I wouldn't dream of suggesting that she treat her own mother.

 

Regardless, turning my back on a parent or a child is not something I would find in my heart to do, especially at the level of stuff that LB has talked about here. She has listed very little actual "treatment", and as I said, I would be like a bulldog on insisting on treatment, whether or not my parent or child agreed.

Let me share a couple of little anecdotes from what my cousin suffered, throughout his childhood.

1. He woke up one morning, when he was a teenager, to his mother walloping him upside the head, screaming at him for poisoning her coffee.
   
2. He lived day in and day out with her accusations of one thing or another. He listened to her accusing his father of infidelity with women who he looked at, on the street.
   
3. She would walk around the home, raving about voices telling her things, sick and delusional things.
   

Just a few things to grow up with. It's no wonder that as soon as he was old enough, he turned to alcohol to numb the pain.

 

The legal system did squat for my uncle and cousin. They tried and tried and tried, until finally, she became suicidal. Then, they were able to force her into treatment. Even then, it took years to get the right pharmaceuticals to help. And of course, in the intervening years, she would refuse to take her meds and the cycle would start all over again.

 

Until you've lived with this pain, the pain I see in my cousin's eyes everytime I see him, you CANNOT know what it's like. I've seen her in some of her off times. It's frightening as hell.

 

But someone like you will intone the need for martyrdom for those who've already been victimized. That to me is emotionally abusive.

[TwinkletOes26]

I think the reason why a lot of people on here arent faulting LB is bc her mother is a grown woman who can do day to day activities she isnt incapable of feeding or dressing herself. A parent is responsible for a mentally ill child because they decided to have them and that child is their responsibility. Not so much the other way around(sorry if it sounds harsh but its true). When you have children you have an OBLIGATION to stick with them because you decided to have them.

 

Judging by what lb has said (correct me if i am wrong lb ) her mother heaps verabal abuse on lb I dont think anyone here said to turn her back on her mom rather take a break and just contact her from a distance. Lb says her mother is verbally abusive which makes the holidays hard. Why spend your holiday being miserable. I dont blame Lb one little bit.

 

Also theres a difference in working with a mentally handicapped person and dealing with them as a family member. Theres a reason why you are not suppose to treat someone in your family as a counselor. Lb's mother refuses to get treatment why should Lb continue subject herself to her mothers treatment since she refuses to get help?

 

DISCLAIMER : This is just my opinon not aiming any comments towards anyone I simply want to help LB is all .

[Lauriebell82]

Let me share a couple of little anecdotes from what my cousin suffered, throughout his childhood.

1. He woke up one morning, when he was a teenager, to his mother walloping him upside the head, screaming at him for poisoning her coffee.
   
2. He lived day in and day out with her accusations of one thing or another. He listened to her accusing his father of infidelity with women who he looked at, on the street.
   
3. She would walk around the home, raving about voices telling her things, sick and delusional things.
   

Just a few things to grow up with. It's no wonder that as soon as he was old enough, he turned to alcohol to numb the pain.

 

The legal system did squat for my uncle and cousin. They tried and tried and tried, until finally, she became suicidal. Then, they were able to force her into treatment. Even then, it took years to get the right pharmaceuticals to help. And of course, in the intervening years, she would refuse to take her meds and the cycle would start all over again.

 

Until you've lived with this pain, the pain I see in my cousin's eyes everytime I see him, you CANNOT know what it's like. I've seen her in some of her off times. It's frightening as hell.

 

But someone like you will intone the need for martyrdom for those who've already been victimized. That to me is emotionally abusive.

 

Wow, that sounds so much like my mom! (minus the "hearing voices" stuff). She does talk about how she doesn't understand certain "language" and thinks that we are communicating to each other in words she can't comprehend.

 

It's really horrible to have your mom act like that. She gets much worse when she drinks also, I have seen her drunk and paranoid and it's really scary. My dad told me she jumped on the hood of his car drunk one time because she didn't want him to leave.

[threebyfate]

Wow, that sounds so much like my mom! (minus the "hearing voices" stuff). She does talk about how she doesn't understand certain "language" and thinks that we are communicating to each other in words she can't comprehend.

 

It's really horrible to have your mom act like that. She gets much worse when she drinks also, I have seen her drunk and paranoid and it's really scary. My dad told me she jumped on the hood of his car drunk one time because she didn't want him to leave.

That's why I wonder if she's been misdiagnosed. Regardless, I hope that she gets physically abusive so she can be forced into treatment.

 

I greatly feel for your family and can't believe that people who haven't experienced this kind of horrific behaviour, can believe that others who have, should continue to take it on the chin. It ain't no party. This is rip your heart out bleeding stuff, not just a little bit of bipolar behaviour.

[carhill]

It's really horrible to have your mom act like that. She gets much worse when she drinks also, I have seen her drunk and paranoid and it's really scary.

 

Yes, alcohol tends to eliminate the few remaining social 'filters' as well as is generally contra-indicated with most psychoactive medications.

 

Psychosis (and that is what this sounds like) is no picnic. Any stories I could tell would be superfluous but there were some times I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy. For me, the hardest part was, as it appears to be for you and your father, finding competent help. I fired a lot of doctors before finding the proper mix of professionals to handle things. Fortunately, my mother had provided me with the proper legal tools before she became ill and that helped immensely, and continues to. Something to consider with your dad, if not already handled. You never know.

[sb129]

Right now I am holding a little person who I devote my mind body and soul to pretty much 24-7 at the moment, even though I get very little back. (she puked on me just now though, perhaps that counts?)

 

I would be devastated if one day she turned her back on me if I needed love or support.

 

Parents will rarely desert their children even if they are sick or badly behaved.

 

My parents have driven me up the wall and around the bend at times, and alcohol played a part at one time. Now one of them is dead.

 

I know mental illness can be scary and painful, but perhaps what your mum needs is some love and compassion to encourage her to get better instead of anger, resentment and isolation.

[threebyfate]

I know mental illness can be scary and painful, but perhaps what your mum needs is some love and compassion to encourage her to get better instead of anger, resentment and isolation.

I would love to put you into a room with someone like Lb's mother or my aunt, for about a week. I suspect your attitude would change in about 4 hours but 4 hours isn't enough. You need a week so that she can terrorize you emotionally, until you either decide to kill her or go insane yourself. Keep in mind that this is someone you don't even have an emotional investment in.

[TwinkletOes26]

I would love to put you into a room with someone like Lb's mother or my aunt, for about a week. I suspect your attitude would change in about 4 hours but 4 hours isn't enough. You need a week so that she can terrorize you emotionally, until you either decide to kill her or go insane yourself. Keep in mind that this is someone you don't even have an emotional investment in.

 

exactly tbf dealing with mental illness in a family member is extremely hard and painful

[Lauriebell82]

Parents will rarely desert their children even if they are sick or badly behaved.

 

My parents have driven me up the wall and around the bend at times, and alcohol played a part at one time. Now one of them is dead.

 

I know mental illness can be scary and painful, but perhaps what your mum needs is some love and compassion to encourage her to get better instead of anger, resentment and isolation.

 

It's beyond scary and painful. Really, I get what you are saying but until you have experienced first hand that kind of horrible behavior-especially someone who gave birth to you-it is hard to imagine not wanting to be loving and compassionate anymore.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love my mom very much but sometimes she just makes me want to ring her neck.

[threebyfate]

exactly tbf dealing with mental illness in a family member is extremely hard and painful

My uncle gave my aunt decades of love and compassion. The byproduct of all this love and compassion was that my cousin is about as emotionally dysfunctional as you can get. I suppose for some, this is worth the price...

[carhill]

A saying we use on our forum, and one I find quite appropriate, is 'when you've seen one dementia patient, you've seen one dementia patient'. The inference is that they are all different, as are the family dynamics surrounding the patient. They can range from the truly horrifying, as related by TBF about her aunt, to patients who are merely unable to care for themselves but pose no threat nor abuse anyone, and everything in between.

 

The clear imperative is to offer a range of support and care options so the family and patient can secure the best possible care and support for their circumstances. The really competent professionals were the ones who gave me information and options, along with the clear directive to make choices with their support and professional clout/credentials to secure what we needed. This is what I'm sensing is not yet in the OP's arsenal, and having such would/will IMO change their dynamic markedly.

 

I've often reflected upon if I knew at the beginning what I know now, how much differently things would've gone, including my marriage, but we know what we know when we know it. And so it goes....

 

We're now beginning the transition to liquid meds (went to insulin this weekend) in preparation for end stage 7 and hospice. There's always something to do.

[sb129]

I would love to put you into a room with someone like Lb's mother or my aunt, for about a week. I suspect your attitude would change in about 4 hours but 4 hours isn't enough. You need a week so that she can terrorize you emotionally, until you either decide to kill her or go insane yourself. .

 

Jeez there is no need to be so melodramatic.

Most non-mentally ill people would suffer badly if they were locked in a room with ANYONE for a week.

 

I love it how you have a "family member" or "friend" to fit every profile.

 

Keep in mind that this is someone you don't even have an emotional investment in

I doubt very much that LBs mothers mental illness has been accurately or fairly represented on here because LB has an emotional investment in her.

 

We haven't been given a diagnosis of any description, except that she is able to function from day to day.

That leaves a rather wide range of "mental illnesses" open to fill in the blanks.

Maybe her mental state of mind is a result of her marriage breakdown, maybe she is crying out for attention or help with her behaviour, who knows?

 

What neither you NOR LB know "firsthand" is what its like to be a mother, and my perspective has changed on many things since I became one.

 

I feel sorry for LBs mum. Someone needs to fight her corner, and nobody is, on here, or IRL from what I can see.

Edited November 23, 2009 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[TwinkletOes26]

I will say this once more time : No one on here or irl should be judging lb or her situation. No one knows what its like to walk in lbs shoes point blank.

 

A mother is obligated to take care of her mentally ill child bc she made the decision to have that child. You dont choose who your mum is you just get stuck with who ever.

 

What exactly do people expect lb to do I wonder you can not MAKE and ADULT WOMAN get help if she doesnt want to. Im sure if lb nagged her that would only result in more verbal abuse.

 

Lb going dress shopping with her mother was probably an attempt to reach out. If this was Lb's dad instead of LB would the response be the same?I dont blame you LB take a break put some distance between you two for your own sanity.

[carhill]

If this was Lb's dad instead of LB would the response be the same?

 

For myself, yes. I would likely identify better with him, as a man, and be able to talk about his issues, concerns and fears more seamlessly.

 

you can not MAKE and ADULT WOMAN get help if she doesnt want to.

 

Generally true. This is a really common issue. People come up with all kinds of creative ways of dealing with it. Some are legal; some are psychological. Generally, all are borne of love. After all, generally, the easiest path is one of ignoral. There's a type of care called 'respite care', which is kind of like planned ignoral, and allows the caregiver to refocus on their life, their needs, and their priorities. It's an important tool in the care toolbox.

 

Whatever may afflict LB's mom, I hope that effort continues to find a treatment and bring her some peace. If tomorrow or Thanksgiving week is a respite from that effort, good

 

BTW, LB, if your mom has been ill for a number of years, do you note the severity increasing during the winter months? I found, if possible, journaling is a good way of both dealing with the realities, as well as providing good anecdotal information for the doctors.....

[sb129]

Well, anyway, LB, I wish you all the best and I hope things get resolved before your wedding so that its a happy occasion for everyone. I don't have much time to follow things on LS much anymore, but I will def be popping back in Sep 2010 to see your wedding pics.

 

Carhill has given you some very sound advice.

Edited November 23, 2009 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Lauriebell82]

I doubt very much that LBs mothers mental illness has been accurately or fairly represented on here because LB has an emotional investment in her.

 

Well, yeah it has, I've told you everything that my mom has done (actually I LEFT a lot of stuff out) but it's all true.

 

We haven't been given a diagnosis of any description, except that she is able to function from day to day.

That leaves a rather wide range of "mental illnesses" open to fill in the blanks.

Maybe her mental state of mind is a result of her marriage breakdown, maybe she is crying out for attention or help with her behaviour, who knows?

 

She has severe depression and anxiety (she is diagnosed with these), I think I mentioned that a few pages back. She has paranoia and psychotic features as well, which is why it's so hard to treat. It's funny but her mental state is WHY her marriage is actually breaking down. When my mom is "normal" and asks like her old self my parents have a ball together, they are happy and enjoy each other's company. When she acts psychotic all heck breaks lose!

[Lauriebell82]

Well, anyway, LB, I wish you all the best and I hope things get resolved before your wedding so that its a happy occasion for everyone. I don't have much time to follow things on LS much anymore, but I will def be popping back in Sep 2010 to see your wedding pics.

 

Thanks, I hope so too!!!

[Star Gazer]

I GUARANTEE that if your spouse pulled the kind of stuff on you, you would divorce them in a freaking heartbeat.

 

Then why ISN'T your dad divorcing her? To keep money? Despite how "horrible" she is to him, he refuses to divorce her because she'd get half of the assets - which she certainly deserves after at least 25 years of marriage and NEEDS in order to avoid becoming a homeless person. But if he wouldn't lose half the assets, he'd divorce her in a hertbeat, leaving her, presumably a person who needed serious help, helpless? And you really think she's the sole cause of the breakdown of their marriage? I'm really concerned that you don't see how wrong that is.

[Star Gazer]

A saying we use on our forum, and one I find quite appropriate, is 'when you've seen one dementia patient, you've seen one dementia patient'. The inference is that they are all different, as are the family dynamics surrounding the patient.

 

Exactly right, Carhill. Just because someone has a mentally ill parent or aunt or friend does NOT mean they can translate that experience into LB's experience. You'll always be comparing apples and oranges.

 

The one thing we can all agree on, I think, is that LB's mom needs help and support, not abandonment. And I'm assuming that because LB took her mother with her to buy her wedding dress that she doesn't intend on abandoning her mom...at least, I hope so.

 

LB, I don't know if you've said this already, but how is your sister handling your mom's illness?

 

 

Good luck, LB!

[carhill]

LB, are any of your grandparents still alive?

 

My stbx has a client, an 82 year old lady, who comes to my mom's facility every day (she really does, and knows my mom probably better than me) to feed her daughter, who is in her late 50's and has EOAD (early onset Alzheimer's), a particularly potent and insidious form of the disease. It's really sad, watching a mother take care of her helpless daughter, spending the last years of both their lives in such a situation. I wish, sometimes, I had her strength of will. Now, obviously, the nursing staff does a really good job, evidenced by how healthy my mom is at 88, but this lady just will not be deterred and spends hours each day with her daughter. It's another example of each patient and each family being different. I know I could never be that dedicated. It's just not in me. I accept that.

 

I'll leave you with this. At this holiday, if it were not for the kindness of my best friend and his wife, it would be me, the cat and my mom (should I wish to visit her). That's it. Take a look around at your family, including your fiance. Ask yourself what is important in your life. Do what you feel is healthy for you. Best wishes and happy Thanksgiving

[Lauriebell82]

Then why ISN'T your dad divorcing her? To keep money? Despite how "horrible" she is to him, he refuses to divorce her because she'd get half of the assets - which she certainly deserves after at least 25 years of marriage and NEEDS in order to avoid becoming a homeless person. But if he wouldn't lose half the assets, he'd divorce her in a hertbeat, leaving her, presumably a person who needed serious help, helpless? And you really think she's the sole cause of the breakdown of their marriage? I'm really concerned that you don't see how wrong that is.

 

I try not to get involved in their marital problems, therefore I have no clue.

 

And I'm assuming that because LB took her mother with her to buy her wedding dress that she doesn't intend on abandoning her mom...at least, I hope so.

 

LB, I don't know if you've said this already, but how is your sister handling your mom's illness?

 

I don't plan on completely abandoning her as I have said before. My sister is devasted like I am, she has seen so much more then I have, as she has had to live in my parent's house on college breaks. Neither of us are doing well with it.