My Mother is very ill..mentally

[shadowplay]

Lb, I also completely sympathize with you. As previously mentioned, my cousin lived through something similar and to this day, is still messed up badly.

 

I'm sorry to hear that your parents are getting divorced, although I don't blame your father, either, for not being able to handle her mental illness, an illness that makes him "the enemy". No one should be forced to live in a life of emotional abuse.

 

I also don't point the finger at your mother. She's mentally ill. The only problem is that she's the only person who can fix herself, by accepting that she's got a problem and agreeing to ongoing treatment. Without her active participation, no one can help her. Having a mental illness doesn't equate to a free pass to emotionally abuse others.

 

A lot of mentally ill people refuse help, especially when there's a paranoid element to their illness and they think others are out to get them. It's unfortunate, but I don't think you can really blame them for their inability to help themselves. Family members often don't understand this.

 

My ex's mother was bipolar and had this rebellious streak when it came to dealing with doctors. She would turn on family members who called the hospital when she went crazy. Most of her family disowned her because she would refuse help or willingly go off her medication.

[carhill]

Hi LB,

Was your mother taking Adderall for depression? That's a pretty potent drug, primarily a stimulant.

 

During that time, was she monitored for physical side effects, like marked blood pressure increase? I ask because it's possible that such an effect caused blood flow changes in the brain, even tissue damage, causing changes in mental function and personality.

 

My mom's disease is believed to have begun from the effects of untreated hypertension and diabetes, exacerbated by a bleeding stroke which caused a blood mass on her brain. There were indicators of both vascular dementia and Lewy body disease.

 

Given your mother's symptoms, she'll likely have to be committed for an involuntary analysis and treatment. I've seen cases (and had caregivers on my forum talk about them) where the family abandons the patient and they end up living on the streets, becoming the homeless people we often see. It's really heart-wrenching.

 

Given the environment you work in (drug abuse counseling IIRC), you should be able to network and find a practitioner or team who can handle her case. I used the neuropsychometric team from UCSF who analyzed my mom over a 3 month period and formed the basis for treatment and care which we eventually enacted. The key was knowledge and understanding, along with support. I've been dealing with this for nearly the entirety of my marriage.

 

What do you want to do next? She's your mother. Everyone's situation is different and unique. There are no real guidelines.

[Lauriebell82]

Hi LB,

Was your mother taking Adderall for depression? That's a pretty potent drug, primarily a stimulant.

 

During that time, was she monitored for physical side effects, like marked blood pressure increase? I ask because it's possible that such an effect caused blood flow changes in the brain, even tissue damage, causing changes in mental function and personality.

 

Yeah, she was on it for depression. My grandfather passed away and she got laid off from the airlines around the same time and she began to get depressed from that.

 

I don't know if she was monitored for physical effects, I don't think so. We think it did something to her though, and that could have been a possibility.

 

She would never go to the hospital and my dad doesn't want to force her. if she did check in voluntarily she could easily just check herself out again. The other thing about it is that she can "fake it" meaning she can go in a store with a smile on her face and then leave with a scowl. Like we bought my wedding dress the other day and she was normal the entire time we were in there. The minute we stepped out on the sidewalk she started crying and asking me why my dad was doing this to her. I jumped in my car real quick and drove away (after thanking her for the dress of course). It's just weird.

[carhill]

FWIW, LB, my stbx responded to my mother's disease much like you getting into your car; she avoided dealing with it and got angry at my mom and me. I understand the desire to avoid this type of an uncomfortable situation, I really do.

 

The 'flipping' is pretty normal IME; I experienced some of it myself when being sleep deprived while a caregiver. We call it 'caregiver dementia'. I'd appear sane one minute, relying on my social skills to keep up appearances, and then be completely irrational minutes later. The doctors said, for people with certain dementing diseases, that the social skills, memories formed at the earliest part of life, are often the last to go. It was like that for my mom. She confined the 'crazy' behavior to family and her caregiver until the disease progressed to the point where she could no longer 'cover it up' and began to exhibit the delusions and hallucinations with others. That was the point where I had to place her.

 

Given that you're young and getting married, IMO, this is a critical time for you. I strongly suggest that you seek support and guidance from people experienced with this kind of situation not only to help your mother, but to help you maintain your perspective and mental health. You've likely been experiencing effects in yourself for awhile now, but are ignoring them. They'll bite you, trust me.

 

My best advice at this juncture is to remember that each day is a new day. Take this one day at a time and try to do just one positive thing each day, even if small. I still do this today, nearly seven years after I began care. It's a life-saver. Best wishes

[Ody]

Given your mother's symptoms, she'll likely have to be committed for an involuntary analysis and treatment.

 

[...]

 

What do you want to do next? She's your mother. Everyone's situation is different and unique. There are no real guidelines.

 

Hi LB,

 

Carhill's advice has been excellent.

 

I had to institutionalize my mother involuntarily a few years back, and I wanted to second most of what he said and also add a bit about my own experience.

 

First off, committing your mother would be extremely difficult. Not only the act itself, but the weeks or even the months may go by with no improvement. I got so discouraged during this time and almost took my mother out of treatment, but that would have been a terrible mistake. A lot of what they often do is try different medication regimens one after another until they find one that is effective for the patient. Each one may take a week or more to evaluate. They typically start with the less potent regimens, so there may seem to be no improvement, or even deterioration, for quite a while. In my mother's case, she wound up there for months until they tried one of the most potent medications, clozapine. So if you find yourself in this situation, try to be patient, although it's so hard...

 

The other thing is to not blame yourself, or feel guilty, and also not to blame your mother. Some of the most difficult things about mental illness are how it often gets shrugged off and marginalized by people as the patient's fault and how caregivers feel trapped and panicked.

 

Some logistics about the involuntary part... I don't know what the law is in PA, but in NY a 3 day involuntary stay can be had on the recommendation of the doctor at the institution, but anything beyond that requires either patient consent, or court order (unless you happen to be a legal guardian of the patient). Sometimes the best approach if the patient won't go first on his/her own volition, is to start as an involuntary admission, and try to convince the patient during those three days to switch to voluntary. Court orders are hard to come by.

 

Also you may run into health coverage difficulties. I did, and my mother wound up on Medicaid. However, last year the addendum to the mental health parity act passed congress, so if her insurance tries to deny adequate coverage, they are probably in the wrong and you have more options.

 

I was in a very similar situation in terms of my mother, my age, my relationship status, etc just a few years ago. I hope any of this helps. Good luck.

[threebyfate]

You're getting some pretty solid advice, Lb. But there are different laws for different jurisdictions. Where I live, unless the mentally ill individual is a physical danger to self (suicidal) or other individuals, you cannot force any kind of treatment.

 

I strongly urge you to not shoulder any guilt, whether it's guilt for not being able to do more or guilt from wanting to distance yourself. Too often, individuals who don't understand what it's like being treated as the "enemy" from someone who you care deeply for, shovel blame onto you, insisting you martyr yourself, for the sake of the mentally ill individual.

 

If you look at carhill's scenario, he's a helluva' man to shoulder the burden of his mother's mental illness. But his marriage ended up to be the victim of his caring. A mentally ill individual can and will suck your entire life out of you.

 

Unless you're dedicated to being her primary caregiver, keeping an emotional distance from her accusations of which you will probably become the primary focus, now that your father has opted out, think long and hard about what you're possibly getting yourself into.

 

I say this out of concern for what you're possibly taking on. Your emotional health matters equally to your mother's. It's too easy for people to say that you're now responsible when the responsibility lies with your mother, for willingly wanting treatment.

[northstar1]

You're getting some pretty solid advice, Lb. But there are different laws for different jurisdictions. Where I live, unless the mentally ill individual is a physical danger to self (suicidal) or other individuals, you cannot force any kind of treatment.

 

I strongly urge you to not shoulder any guilt, whether it's guilt for not being able to do more or guilt from wanting to distance yourself. Too often, individuals who don't understand what it's like being treated as the "enemy" from someone who you care deeply for, shovel blame onto you, insisting you martyr yourself, for the sake of the mentally ill individual.

 

If you look at carhill's scenario, he's a helluva' man to shoulder the burden of his mother's mental illness. But his marriage ended up to be the victim of his caring. A mentally ill individual can and will suck your entire life out of you.

 

Unless you're dedicated to being her primary caregiver, keeping an emotional distance from her accusations of which you will probably become the primary focus, now that your father has opted out, think long and hard about what you're possibly getting yourself into.

 

I say this out of concern for what you're possibly taking on. Your emotional health matters equally to your mother's. It's too easy for people to say that you're now responsible when the responsibility lies with your mother, for willingly wanting treatment.

 

Well said TBF

[threebyfate]

Well said TBF

Thanks northstar. I just recall my limited exposure to my aunt, when she was off her rocker, and the stories told to me by my cousin. He went through hell, a hell that wasn't necessary but due to the laws and that he was a child, unable to emotionally protect himself.

 

Also, I recall what it was like after D-day with the ex. The blame game and heaping of guilt, to emotionally manipulate, when responsibility lay within himself to get help, for his disorder. The things I had to do, to get him to get help. It was horrendous and that's nothing, compared to what my cousin went through.

 

That Lb is also still in her mid-twenties, is asking A LOT, for her to shoulder the entire burden of this kind of emotional abuse. And this is emotional abuse of the worst kind. She can shoulder what she's capable of but it's her choice. NO ONE should be hammering her about her responsibility to family and I stand by that immovably.

[Ody]

She can shoulder what she's capable of but it's her choice. NO ONE should be hammering her about her responsibility to family and I stand by that immovably.

 

That's great advice. And probably necesary, people will likely do that, it's sad.

 

Also, people might start making judgements about your choice in a different way, LB - they might question that you are doing the right thing, or tell you to do things differently (whether you go with an institution or not). And I don't mean people trying to be helpful or offer suggestions, I mean people will feel they have the answers (which they don't) and the right to demean your choice. I remember an uncle who told me my mother just "needed a vacation". Well, he wasn't so nice or eloquent as that actually... Try not to let such things get to you, if they happen, and of course I hope they don't. Good luck.

[threebyfate]

That's great advice. And probably necesary, people will likely do that, it's sad.

 

Also, people might start making judgements about your choice in a different way, LB - they might question that you are doing the right thing, or tell you to do things differently (whether you go with an institution or not). And I don't mean people trying to be helpful or offer suggestions, I mean people will feel they have the answers (which they don't) and the right to demean your choice. I remember an uncle who told me my mother just "needed a vacation". Well, he wasn't so nice or eloquent as that actually... Try not to let such things get to you, if they happen, and of course I hope they don't. Good luck.

Thanks. I also found your advice solid.

 

Yup and if you consider the bolded portion, this is more about the person forcing the advice down your throat, rather than an attempt to help. It's about being right, rather than what's best for the individual. Only the individual can know what methodology works best for them and also, how much responsibility and abuse, they can handle.

 

Taking on an emotionally abusive, mentally ill person is very different than making a career decision, moving on from relationships or even taking on the responsibility of a physically ill individual.

[Ody]

about the person forcing the advice down your throat, rather than an attempt to help

 

Yes, and it gets extra charged in these situations because everything is so emotionally loaded, and because misperceptions about mental illness are so rampant.

[Lauriebell82]

Thanks everyone. In the state of PA the only way you can committ someone involuntarily is like TBF said: if they are a danger to themselves or others. My mom is not. She's not suicidal or homicidal, therefore we cannot force her to go. She will not go of her own volition and like I said before even if she did she could just check herself out again since she is there voluntarily.

 

My dad says that he wants her to go back to South Carolina and he will not divorce her. He mostly doesn't want to split the assests. (my dad makes a very good living) He keeps saying that he doesn't want to desert her but he feels he has to.

 

I will probably not be her caregiver, she actually doesn't need one as she can function perfectly normal (get dressed in the morning, go shopping, pay bills, ect.) We are hoping (my dad and sister) that she goes down to South Carolina and does not stay here for Thanksgiving. She will torture us all and ruin our holiday. She has done it before. Ugh. (Before everyone cusses me out for that comment, I know she is sick, but STILL it's hard to have her behave like that for the holidays)

Edited November 22, 2009 by Lauriebell82

[TwinkletOes26]

Again lb I dont blame you for feeling the way you do. If someone is sick and they wont do ANYTHING to make themselves better then you cant help but feel a little resentlful. My mom has is depressed bc shes got diabetes and highblood pressure yet she continues to eat high fat foods and not exercise. Even when the drs tell her to so I get fed up with her. It doesnt make you a bad person..it makes you human.

 

Dont allow judgemental people on here or anywhere bring you down. They have no clue what its like to walk in your shoes so they are just talking out the side of their necks AS USUAL. So dont you dare feel bad ~huggles~

[carhill]

She's not suicidal or homicidal, therefore we cannot force her to go. She will not go of her own volition and like I said before even if she did she could just check herself out again since she is there voluntarily.

 

I had to lie and create an elaborate plan of lies to facilitate what I knew to be the right thing. Toughest time of my life. That was the time of my life when I realized that my stbx would not stand with me. I hope you never have to go through that. All I'll tell you is, when dealing with the mentally ill, you must leave your logic at the door. It has no place inside that dynamic. Sorry

[Lucky_One]

Does she become magically "well" in South Carolina? I am not sure why it is cool to pass off a person who is so mentally ill to others.

 

I am still broiling internally over your dad's decision not to divorce because he doesn't want to divide any marital assets. I guess he thinks it would be fine to divorce her if he could keep most of the money and kick a mentally ill woman out on to make a living and survive all she can, huh?

[Lucky_One]

http://www.mhasp.org/services/programs.html

 

Here are some mental health resources for SE Pennsylvania; I am not sure what part of the state you are in, but here is a start.

 

I am not denying that this situation with your mother causes you a lot of stress and pain, LB; what bothers me is the seeming lack of understanding of what mental illness is and how it can be treated, when you are in the mental health field (I think). I am not seeing a lot of action - serious, concerted, bulldog like action - for your own parent, from either her child or her spouse.

[Lauriebell82]

Does she become magically "well" in South Carolina? I am not sure why it is cool to pass off a person who is so mentally ill to others.

 

She does do better when she is down at the beach. It's something about being here that makes her even worse.

 

I am still broiling internally over your dad's decision not to divorce because he doesn't want to divide any marital assets. I guess he thinks it would be fine to divorce her if he could keep most of the money and kick a mentally ill woman out on to make a living and survive all she can, huh?

 

Oh that's such B.S. Do you have ANY idea what she does to my dad? No you don't. I GUARANTEE that if your spouse pulled the kind of stuff on you, you would divorce them in a freaking heartbeat. I don't appreciate the judgements.

[Lauriebell82]

http://www.mhasp.org/services/programs.html

 

Here are some mental health resources for SE Pennsylvania; I am not sure what part of the state you are in, but here is a start.

 

I am not denying that this situation with your mother causes you a lot of stress and pain, LB; what bothers me is the seeming lack of understanding of what mental illness is and how it can be treated, when you are in the mental health field (I think). I am not seeing a lot of action - serious, concerted, bulldog like action - for your own parent, from either her child or her spouse.

 

Why do people keep saying this? That I should be more understanding because I'm in the mental health field. It is SOOOOOOO different when it's a family member. We have TRIED treatment over and over again and nothing has worked. My dad said today that my mom refuses to leave and she is going to stay here and ruin everyone's thanksgiving. He said they had a horrible night last night and my mom went absolutely crazy.

 

He actually told me that if she pulled something like that again tonight then he is going to call the cops to take her to the hospital. She is beginning to get violent (hitting/pushing my dad) so that's grounds to put her in the hospital.

 

How's that for action????

[threebyfate]

He actually told me that if she pulled something like that again tonight then he is going to call the cops to take her to the hospital. She is beginning to get violent (hitting/pushing my dad) so that's grounds to put her in the hospital.

 

How's that for action????

This is a good idea, in that your father will be creating a profile for her, so legal authorities have to start taking this seriously. When someone moves from emotional to physical abuse, who knows how much further they're willing to go. If your family have any firearms in the house, plse lock them up. A delusional person, if the delusion is strong enough, won't necessarily stop at anything, to remove the person who they feel is the "enemy".

[carhill]

I'm sensing a familiar pattern here. One suggestion: whenever possible, engage your community services. For us, that was the paramedics and sheriff. They deal with this stuff all the time and actually encouraged us to use their services, as it would establish a pattern of behavior and condition should any legal action need to be taken. Their mandate was to protect privacy and freedom but to also ensure safety. Everything has a process.

 

One of the most difficult lessons I had to learn (and made plenty of mistakes) was how to react without emotion; to disconnect the emotion from the visible response. Otherwise, agree and re-direct, an imperative in most cases, will not work.

 

Remember, one day at a time. There are good days too. Hug your fiance.

[Lucky_One]

She does do better when she is down at the beach. It's something about being here that makes her even worse.

 

 

 

Oh that's such B.S. Do you have ANY idea what she does to my dad? No you don't. I GUARANTEE that if your spouse pulled the kind of stuff on you, you would divorce them in a freaking heartbeat. I don't appreciate the judgements.

 

I would HOPE that I would do everything possible to help my spouse - and I mean everything. Not divorcing because of not wanting to divide marital assets because he makes a good living has NOTHING to do with your mother and everything to do with your dad.

[threebyfate]

I would HOPE that I would do everything possible to help my spouse - and I mean everything. Not divorcing because of not wanting to divide marital assets because he makes a good living has NOTHING to do with your mother and everything to do with your dad.

Have you ever had an emotionally abusive and/or delusional person in your family, one who treats you like the enemy, accusing you of horrendous things?

[Lauriebell82]

Have you ever had an emotionally abusive and/or delusional person in your family, one who treats you like the enemy, accusing you of horrendous things?

 

Judging by her comments I would guess she hasn't.

 

The fact that my dad has stuck around for this long after what my mom has put him through shows how much he loves and cares about her!

[carhill]

I remember a kind old gentleman at my mom's ALF who came by every day to feed his wife lunch. She no longer recognized him and often knocked the food off the fork or spoon or out of his hand when she struck out, but still he was there every day (at least every day I was there). I remember thinking how lucky she was to have such a devoted spouse. He used to talk to myself and my stbx when we'd visit. Turns out he knew my mom from when they were young, as the ALF was in the town she was born in. Small world.

 

That was one, albeit loving and positive, family dynamic. The world is full of infinite variations. I find it really hard to judge, but hope the OP and her family can find a path which works for them. Don't be afraid to ask for help. You're not alone

[Lucky_One]

I have not, in my immediate family. I do a lot of work with pharmocokinetics and pharmacology, though, and have seen a lot of Phase I-IV trials for psychotic meds.

 

It is just hard to imagine how I would turn my back on my mother, especially if I was in the field of expertise where she is sick. I would move heaven and earth to do anything to help her. Driving away from her is not helping her. If I thought that this was a drug reaction (and it very well may be), then I would certainly be in her primary care physician's face, in the face of whoever was the prescribing physician as it appears that she may not have been properly historied, in the face of every psychiatrist that she has seen, in the face of the ones that she has not been seen by, at a medical university, anywhere that I could think of in order for her to get the highest level of care - even if I had to (as Carhill suggested) lie about her behavior in order to get her into a treatment program without her consent.

 

Adderall (I assume that is what adoral is?) isn't indicated for depression; it can be used as an off-label directive, but is given after previous SSRI or tricyclic ADs have failed. If anything, it carries a clear warning on its label that it shouldn't be given to people who are psychotic, as it exacerbates psychoses such as thought disorders and behavior disturbances. It should never be given to patients with a family history of bipolar, as it can induce manic episodes.

 

Mentally ill patients are very often frightened people, unable to control their own moods and emotions. If they feel that they have nowhere else to turn and that even the people that they always believed would be there to love, support and help them (even if they are unable or unwilling to help themselves), then where do we suggest they go?

 

Honestly, if Laurie was a parent posting about her child being mentally ill with a variety of symptoms, would posters be so willing to suggest that she just write her child off and drive away?