flash582 Posted May 2, 2009 Posted May 2, 2009 I am sorry you were burnt by a woman with not one ounce integrity and self-respect but please do not project your issues onto me. Enjoy the revenge mission you are on, is all I can say to you. Revenge mission? WTH did you get that? If I choose to go to a Strip Club then it must obviously be Revenge? Wow ..... That's all I can say .... Wow. I'll back out of the discourse now ..... and good luck to you MissConduct. I hope you find what it is that you seek. And I thank god every single day for my 2nd wife ..... you've just re-awakened those feelings and I thank you for that. Otherwise ... I could have ended up with a second mate like you.
c-riouz Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 I find it interesting that not one single man went into annieo's points from page 7. It's as if men don't want to hear or even think about the darker side of the porn and strip club industry, because it would eat at their conscience and make them feel guilty to be a CONSUMER of the SUFFERING of most of the women in those industries. Which are exactly the issues I have with strip clubs. The answer most guys give that the "girls mean nothing, they are just a pair of tits and ass, they are sluts and whores" wouldn't comfort me one bit in a relationship and I find this attitude rather repulsive, because it makes those men seem to be suffering from a raging madonna/whore complex. That he feels entitled to put women into categories like good girl - bad girl, yet he is so above them that he feels the right to use those girls for his own pleasure. It speaks of selfishness and a tendency to dehumanize people, and I wouldn't want anything to do with that kind of person anyway. No, so a guy not going to strip clubs per se is not enough, it's also about the reason WHY he doesn't go. The only acceptable answer as an empathetic, evolved, human being would be, "I don't want to support such an industry". But apparently, that's not even on many men's minds, as the lack of response to annieo's posting showed. Brave new world. And come to think of it, this will be my last posting on this site as well. I certainly don't want to support a website/ forum that apparently has no problem with advertisements of (probably underage) mail-order-bride-services and cheating agencies.
Woggle Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 I don't degrade strippers at all. In fact I respect them. Where else can a person earn that much money that fast and do it legally? Strippers are hustlers and they don't harm anybody. A man knows exactly what he is getting at a strip club and he isn't having his money taken by force through the family court system so in many ways strippers are much more honorable than your average wife.
Jersey Shortie Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 So not only do I not see the connection between porn/strippers as having anything to do with interchangeable-ness, interchangeable-ness by itself isn't even bad. It simply means you have the capability to move on in case something bad happens to the relationship; i.e. if love is lost, you can find it again, with someone else. Ohh okay, so if a man is viewing porn while dating you, he is just practicing on the possibility of the relationship ending and seeking out new vagina. Well, then please continue using those things and the real woman in your life that was cares for you. That's how real men should treat women after all I guess. Also, there is a big difference between fiction and reality. If I see wolverine jumping around beating on bad guys, I'm not going to put on a costume and go out and fight crime. Not, but you may ask your girlfriend to wear those thigh highs that you just saw in the porno or try a new position. A lot of men seem to want to make a point of porn being fiction when it suites them, then want it to become reality, again, when it suites them. You might realize it's not reality but it doesn't mean you don't want it to be or that you don't encourage your girlfriend to be more like it at some point. The majority of men do. Porn is fiction. Strippers are fiction. They are simply entertainment. If guys want to be entertained, go to a sport game, ask your girlfriend/wife to do something with you. I find it interesting that not one single man went into annieo's points from page 7. It's as if men don't want to hear or even think about the darker side of the porn and strip club industry, because it would eat at their conscience and make them feel guilty to be a CONSUMER of the SUFFERING of most of the women in those industries. Which are exactly the issues I have with strip clubs. The answer most guys give that the "girls mean nothing, they are just a pair of tits and ass, they are sluts and whores" wouldn't comfort me one bit in a relationship and I find this attitude rather repulsive, because it makes those men seem to be suffering from a raging madonna/whore complex. That he feels entitled to put women into categories like good girl - bad girl, yet he is so above them that he feels the right to use those girls for his own pleasure. It speaks of selfishness and a tendency to dehumanize people, and I wouldn't want anything to do with that kind of person anyway. No, so a guy not going to strip clubs per se is not enough, it's also about the reason WHY he doesn't go. The only acceptable answer as an empathetic, evolved, human being would be, "I don't want to support such an industry". But apparently, that's not even on many men's minds, as the lack of response to annieo's posting showed. Brave new world. And come to think of it, this will be my last posting on this site as well. I certainly don't want to support a website/ forum that apparently has no problem with advertisements of (probably underage) mail-order-bride-services and cheating agencies. C-riouz, I couldn't agree more. Why do men think it's any compliment to them, to their own women in their life that they put the girls in the porn or strippers down but think they are so much better then these women for using them? I doubt there will be one man to confront you on it. It's like their desire to jerk off is greater then any respect a woman could possibly deserve. They might throw back "well the girl choose to be in the movie"..ANd she did but what does that have to do with YOU as an individual man with women in his life thinking he deserves to treat women like that? I read a book once that said porn was a way for men to feel like men without requiring them to actually be men. Because it's easier to take from a woman, then give something of their selves to a woman. That comment hit me hard because it's true. That's exactly what porn is. It does make men feel like men but it doesn't require that the man actually be a man. The sad thing is we say all too ofte" oh he is just being a man", if he looks at porn. But you know what? HE isn't being a man. He is being a passive shell of himself. And he is using women to achieve that. It makes you wonder if men even have any real respect for the women in their lives or if they only have respect for them by default of association with *him*. Sure seems like men think women in general deserve to be used and belittled, as long as it's not "his" woman. That says to me that the only reason he thinks the woman in his life deserves respect is by default of her association with *him*. WHatever happened to men that wanted to stand up and protect women? I see alot of passive men and not enough men willing to really be men. When you have a billion dollar industry that billions of men buy into that doesn't require them to actually be real men, it hurts the foundation of men and women.
IceWind Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 My girlfriend is very understanding of mens "needs" and as I long as I'm not "flirting" with other woman or our sex life suffers, she doesn't mind me looking at eye candy. Hell, she's even willing to take me to my first strip joint and has even taken a tour of a brothel with a "working woman" and thought it was cool! Hell, even she appreciates the fine beauty of a nice rack and ass. We enoy watching "naughty" stuff together and making fun of it.
Jersey Shortie Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Well you're a lucky man. You and your needs are what is important in the relationship. Often, it is women that are more willing to make their partner happy then the opposite. It seems. Since so many women do make consessions on porn and strip clubs and try to be the "cool girlfriend" while their men take full advantage of it with little concern to what a woman could need. Because at the end of the day, it's really about what the man wants and has very little to do with what a woman might want or respecting her and treating her right of fair.
You'reasian Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 I read a book once that said porn was a way for men to feel like men without requiring them to actually be men. Because it's easier to take from a woman, then give something of their selves to a woman. That comment hit me hard because it's true. That's exactly what porn is. It does make men feel like men but it doesn't require that the man actually be a man. The sad thing is we say all too ofte" oh he is just being a man", if he looks at porn. But you know what? HE isn't being a man. He is being a passive shell of himself. And he is using women to achieve that. . Which book? Who is the author? I'd bet the message would be different if Hugh Heffner or Howard Stern were the authors - for the sake of this argument, I'm going to give credit to Mr. Heffner since he is the afficianado of beautiful women (the Warren Buffet if you will) and give less credit to femminist authors since I know they don't have my best interests. Your repeated attempts to tie masculinity to feminist ways fails. It makes you wonder if men even have any real respect for the women in their lives or if they only have respect for them by default of association with *him*. Sure seems like men think women in general deserve to be used and belittled, as long as it's not "his" woman. That says to me that the only reason he thinks the woman in his life deserves respect is by default of her association with *him*. . The women in my life that have earned my respect can see it. They don't b***h & moan about men. Personality wise they're as different as night and day, bubbly and funny to dorky/enjoyable, sexy - but when it comes down to it, they're tough as nails on the inside (although you could never see it outside ), kind hearted and great to be around. WHatever happened to men that wanted to stand up and protect women? I see alot of passive men and not enough men willing to really be men. . You chose the men in your life (with the exception of your father). You are responsible for that, not men. For someone with your socio-political background I expected less finger pointing and more self-accountability. You also can't have it both ways - you can't demand women be ultimately independent AND men to protect them. I know independent women who can protect themselves - frankly, they're ok. When you have a billion dollar industry that billions of men buy into that doesn't require them to actually be real men, it hurts the foundation of men and women. Feminists always have skewed versions of manhood.
Els Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Well you're a lucky man. You and your needs are what is important in the relationship. Often, it is women that are more willing to make their partner happy then the opposite. It seems. Since so many women do make consessions on porn and strip clubs and try to be the "cool girlfriend" while their men take full advantage of it with little concern to what a woman could need. Because at the end of the day, it's really about what the man wants and has very little to do with what a woman might want or respecting her and treating her right of fair. As a woman, I beg to disagree. I really enjoy watching porn with my man. It's not something I do 'for him', it's something I like. There ARE women like that. Really. Each of us is different from each other, and from you.
IceWind Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Feminists always have skewed versions of manhood. Gee, ya think????
IceWind Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Jersey Shortie, i'm sorry but after reading your posts in this thread, you either have serious self confidence issues, or are just completely inflexible in your thinking and viewpoint of the world. Which is fine, thats you. Just remember that not all of subscribe to your personal newsletter
missdependant Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 I will admit I used to be really insecure about this issue, but have since GROWN up. I've done some self-discovery and feel much more confident and I don't get jealous about trivial crap anymore... like porn. I AM my boyfriend's priority, next for him comes graduating from CSU (this week, how exciting!!!!), then will come raising a kid together starting in October. Porn isn't a priority for him, it's something he enjoys every now and then. I have yet to meet a man who isn't stimulated visually. Just because they watch porn doesn't mean thy're evil, it means they're a MAN. So everyone just chill the fu** out!!!
missdependant Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Jersey Shortie, i'm sorry but after reading your posts in this thread, you either have serious self confidence issues, or are just completely inflexible in your thinking and viewpoint of the world. Which is fine, thats you. Just remember that not all of subscribe to your personal newsletter Yeah.... it is an issue with self-esteem and confidence. Nothing anyon here can help her with.
sally4sara Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 I don't think she is wrong in her views on this subject. It really is disgusting to watch men conveniently forget the women in strip clubs or porn are real people with every right to basic human respect as anyone else. The "interchangeble" attitude is offensive. I do watch porn with my fiance now and then. I am and have been since I was 5, aware of my attraction to women. I find mild enjoyment because of this. But here is the lowdown on that too - how can your lady of choice really be enjoying viewing the porn as much as you do? Can't really watch porn with your face buried in someone's groin. If she is on top of you and you are watching the porn, do you think she doesn't notice this? What do you think that message you're sending is? When I watch porn, and because I am more interested in sex with men than sex with women, I do focus more on the guy. And you better believe I notice if he is bigger, longer, better looking, better built, etc..... If I was having sex with my partner and barely focused on him I'm sure he would notice. We'd end up watching a lot more lez porn I'm sure. When I was younger, I was more concerned with the excitement level of the guy then my own enjoyment. Young girls are seeking approval for their newly bloomed bodies because they are concerned that they look "right". If they are emotionally scarred, they might be willing to do just about anything a guy requests. I rarely see any concern for the furthering of that scarring. Its so nice to see a bunch of guys say "hey thats YOUR problem, YOUR insecurities, don't point your finger at me" even though they're certainly happy to reap the result of that emotional scarring. Or "the only guy you didn't choose was your dad, the rest is your fault" when we all know we learn with varying degrees, from the model our mother or father provided us and use it to choose partners. The cliche of strippers and porn stars having "daddy issues" is an old one. Do you think about it when you watch porn and beat your meat or when you treat some girl in a club like trash and then pay her to give you a lap dance? Nope, not your problem. But to point this out means I have insecurities? No. It just means I take stock of the damage I do to others in this life and try to minimize it to the best of my abilities. I can recognize the possibility of a guy going to a strip club or watching porn and still being able to conduct themselves with some dignity and respect towards women. I can recognize to possibility of a woman truely enjoying being an exibitionist and raw sexuality for the power (and money) it can give them without feeling victimized. But I don't forget that those possibilities are exceedingly rare just to absolve myself of responsibility for my actions. Nor do I expect others to forget it too and tell them they are being controlling and insecure when they don't agree with me.
IceWind Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Oh you can have your opinion and viewpoint and vocalize it all you want, knock yourself out. Just know that not everyone is gonna agree with/like it. And wether you give a rats ass about other peeps opinion on your opinion just continues the stir the brew....
sally4sara Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Oh you can have your opinion and viewpoint and vocalize it all you want, knock yourself out. Just know that not everyone is gonna agree/like it Is that not what I just said? I just said others not agreeing isn't just about insecurities and controlling nature. No one likes having a mirror held up to the ugly side of their motives. That is why Jersey gets ragged on alot.
IceWind Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Is that not what I just said? Ah sorry, I tend to understand "cliff notes" versions of posts better then long drawn out typed thoughts
sally4sara Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Ah sorry, I tend to understand "cliff notes" versions of posts better then long drawn out typed thoughts Maybe....... That is why guys tend to not like to think too much about the implications of their actions? Big problems with small solutions are the favorite among men are they not? As curious pointed out - no one responded to the points made on pg 7 (I think it was page 7 ) Care to guess why?
sally4sara Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 There is no 'harm' in enjoying any aspect of the sex industry but people need to realise, it IS an industry, a buisness and it does use people. The porn industry is a meat market pretty much like the fast food industry. It sucks up people who are poor, in debt, have substance abuse or addiction issues or have suffered difficult lives. Some people gravitate to the sex industry buisness because they enjoy it, want to or choose to, I would say this is about 1% of the industry. Normal, healthy and functional adults, do not want to work in the sex industry. The majority of the people that do are damaged or desperate in some way. Therefore in partaking in this industry, you are contributing to someones suffering. In much the same way as you can buy a happy meal and think nothing of it, you have contributed to an industry that murders and slaughters animals and raises them in an unhygienic, cramped and miserable existance, just to eat something, that no, i'm sorry, you did not need. I think that is comparable to the sex industry. No-one needs to go to a strip club. You want to and you can get away with it, so you do. If you are enjoying the sex industry, then at least accept, that you are contributing to a buisness that sucks in peoples wives, daughters, sisters and mothers for your enjoyment. As I said, there are prostitutes, strippers and escorts who enjoy there job - 1 %. The rest are there because there is little or no other alternative. It is an industry that used people. But that sums up our society; we don't care so long as we are okay. As I said there is no harm enjoying this, so long as you can accept you are playing your part. The irony is men would hate if there mothers, sisters, girlfriends, wives or daughters did this job, but don't mind seeing any other woman do it. This is because you can dehumanise these women. Your mother, wife, sister, daughter have emotional value to you. The women in the industry are not so much women to you as objects, toys, playthings, whores, s***, a whole load of words that makes them inhuman and encourages hate. That's why even women tend to hate other women, because you dehumanise them. They aren't 'real people'. They are 'Star' or 'Honey' or whatever name they are hiding behind. I am open-minded to pornography but even then I have moral reservations because as a woman I think it is important to be aware of the suffering of other women as and when it occurs. Strip clubs though - no. Completely dissrespectful. Call me insecure, call me conversative, call me whatever. I am not for them. I think these were the points made. Very good ones that no men in this discussion responded to. Hmmmm.......
IceWind Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 I think these were the points made. Very good ones that no men in this discussion responded to. Hmmmm....... Last I recall, most woman in this country CHOOSE by their own DECISIONS to wether be part of the sex industry or not. Don't demoralize an entire gender just because you can't deal with the fact that some woman like to make money,fame and fortune by their bodies alone. Your once again ASSUMING, and what do we know about assumptions? Yeah.....
missdependant Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 ^^ Yeah that! Where in the Rockies are you at? CSU/Fort Collins!!! Graduating this week!
sally4sara Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Last I recall, most woman in this country CHOOSE by their own DECISIONS to wether be part of the sex industry or not. Don't demoralize an entire gender just because you can't deal with the fact that some woman like to make money,fame and fortune by their bodies alone. Deal with it. Once again, not wishing to acknowledge the implications behind the stripper dust and male comradery.
sally4sara Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Last I recall, most woman in this country CHOOSE by their own DECISIONS to wether be part of the sex industry or not. Don't demoralize an entire gender just because you can't deal with the fact that some woman like to make money,fame and fortune by their bodies alone. Your once again ASSUMING, and what do we know about assumptions? Yeah..... I spent 2 1/2 years making that money. Don't ASSUME I don't know what I'm talking about.
IceWind Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Hell, if you wanna play the "Generalize and categorize based on no real facts" game, I'll go out on a limb state that woman deserve everything they got because Eve is the one who tempted Adam to take a bite out of the apple! Therefore, all our world problems have stemmed from a single woman! She broke Gods law, she tricked man and she herself has led us into the terrible world that is today, its all womans fault from the every beginning! See how that works?
Recommended Posts