OWoman Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 This is the crux of the problem when BSs post on the OW/OM Board. Their anger and bitterness cannot help but seep out into their "advice." Funny thing is...most do not recognize this Thing is, James, SOME BS do manage to post with compassion, objectivity and genuine insight. They tend to be the more mature posters, who've worked through the issues in their own M (whether through D or through reconciling) and who've connected with their own core humanity in the process. Others are still in too much pain - and denial of that pain - to see someone else's situation through a lens that doesn't refract through their own broken heart. I am not sure though that we can compare BSs to OW/OMs. A betrayal of infidelity cuts deep to the soul. While the ending of an affair does hurt deeply for an OW or OM, I don't think the hurt is as deep as it is when one's partner breaks his or her marriage vows. I don't agree with this - I think a betrayal is a betrayal. I've seen teenagers sawing at their wrists with blunt blades because of some trivial slight from their "best friend" - from my perspective, at least, it's trivial... but to them, in the thick of it, it's overwhelming. For an OW who's believed the promises of a MM that she loves with a passion stronger than death, the betrayal of being dumped, or being put on hold, or even just dissed in favour of the W / kids / other commitments can feel worse than anything they've ever lived through. We've seen OW post here who're so debilitated by their situations they're unable to get out of bed and carry on with their lives. OTOH, some BS simply shrug and get on with their lives, because they too had checked out of the M long before the betrayal happened (or maybe they'd been elsewise involved theselves? Who knows?) I think situations differ, depending on the circumstances, and it's hard to generalise across categories. Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I can't believe that you're surprised by that? Nope - not surprised, just mentioning it for the sake of completeness. Your story illustrated the point I made in my next post, so thanks for that Link to post Share on other sites
jasminetea Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Nope - not surprised, just mentioning it for the sake of completeness. Your story illustrated the point I made in my next post, so thanks for that That's cool. However, you haven't addressed my reasoning as to why your complaints here about the BS can't be relevant. Link to post Share on other sites
filipinafriends Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I am not suprised Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sagelily Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 All I have to say is that I am honestly happy that I started this thread. It's started some good conversation. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Moralising and telling someone else what to do is not going to move most people, save for a tiny minority whose punishing consciences respond to injections of guilt and shame. Such people are likely to offend again as they never resolve their needs in a healthy fashion. It's interesting how you cast the WS and OM/OM that realize that their conduct is unfair and unproductive to everyone involved as somehow unenlightened. Your ability to use the ends to justify the means could certainly support a vast array of activities... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I agree that "morality" is all relative to an individual and their own life experiences. When I post here, I can only post my opinion based on my own life experiences. If someone disagrees with me, that is their prerogative, but that doesn't make it wrong for me to post here or anywhere else that allows public opinion to be voiced. I don't understand why it bothers people so much when a BW gives a point of view. It's real and sometimes stated with such emotion that it's hard to ignore. Unless you just want to sweep away the reality of what betrayal does to those who are on the other side, I would think it could help see the big picture. Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 That's cool. However, you haven't addressed my reasoning as to why your complaints here about the BS can't be relevant. I missed that bit? Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I don't understand why it bothers people so much when a BW gives a point of view. It's real and sometimes stated with such emotion that it's hard to ignore. Unless you just want to sweep away the reality of what betrayal does to those who are on the other side, I would think it could help see the big picture. I'm confused on this myself. Why does our history as a BS, either current or former, render our input as less valuable? Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I'm confused on this myself. Why does our history as a BS, either current or former, render our input as less valuable? Mr. Lucky It doesn't. But the input in many cases is: 1. Biased 2. Filled with bitterness. And because of that, it appears to be more for the purpose of hurting the OW/OM who is posting rather than for the purpose of helping the OW/OM. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 It doesn't. But the input in many cases is: 1. Biased 2. Filled with bitterness. And because of that, it appears to be more for the purpose of hurting the OW/OM who is posting rather than for the purpose of helping the OW/OM. So, I'm willing to accept that your definition of bitterness and mine are different, but even with that I still don't see why the reality of the pain that is caused by an affair isn't appropriate on this forum. Also, isn't every opinion biased based on any given persons personal experiences? Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 So, I'm willing to accept that your definition of bitterness and mine are different, but even with that I still don't see why the reality of the pain that is caused by an affair isn't appropriate on this forum. First of all, if I had been betrayed, then I think I would be just as bitter. I know I would want to be certain to let every OW or OM how much pain they cause. And I doubt I could say it without a few words being used which show that I think they are...well, scum...for breaking up a marriage. And those are my words as to how I think I would feel. Based on that I don't think I could post. As for being appropriate for this forum, I do think it is good if cheaters see what pain they are causing. I think it is great if the BSs spell out what is happening on the "other side." BUT...in order for that advice to be effective, I think it needs to be said in a way that doesn't make the receiving party feel like a criminal. Also, isn't every opinion biased based on any given persons personal experiences? Yes. And that alone is not enough to be a reason to stop posting. My opinion is biased, too. The key IMO is that advice should be given in a manner which will be helpful to the poster. Some BSs do well at this...others do not. Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 So, I'm willing to accept that your definition of bitterness and mine are different, but even with that I still don't see why the reality of the pain that is caused by an affair isn't appropriate on this forum. HN, I think this gets back to the point made earlier about the WAY that input is given. SHOWING pain is one thing; going into attack mode and calling someone a whore or worse just because her BF is married to someone else does nothing but fan flames of hostility and create "us" vs "them" camps. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 The key IMO is that advice should be given in a manner which will be helpful to the poster. Some BSs do well at this...others do not. Maybe the BS's that come here with fresh wounds aren't here to give advice. Does that mean they shouldn't be here at all? Or, that their display of pain (or bitterness as you call it) isn't a valuable addition to the topic at hand? Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 First of all, if I had been betrayed, then I think I would be just as bitter. I know I would want to be certain to let every OW or OM how much pain they cause. And I doubt I could say it without a few words being used which show that I think they are...well, scum...for breaking up a marriage. And those are my words as to how I think I would feel. Based on that I don't think I could post. As for being appropriate for this forum, I do think it is good if cheaters see what pain they are causing. I think it is great if the BSs spell out what is happening on the "other side." BUT...in order for that advice to be effective, I think it needs to be said in a way that doesn't make the receiving party feel like a criminal. Yes. And that alone is not enough to be a reason to stop posting. My opinion is biased, too. The key IMO is that advice should be given in a manner which will be helpful to the poster. Some BSs do well at this...others do not. Thanks for saying it better than I did, James! Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Maybe the BS's that come here with fresh wounds aren't here to give advice. Does that mean they shouldn't be here at all? Or, that their display of pain (or bitterness as you call it) isn't a valuable addition to the topic at hand? And now I am going to quote OWoman.... HN, I think this gets back to the point made earlier about the WAY that input is given. SHOWING pain is one thing; going into attack mode and calling someone a whore or worse just because her BF is married to someone else does nothing but fan flames of hostility and create "us" vs "them" camps. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 And now I am going to quote OWoman.... So are you saying that the BS"s should temper their emotions so that they don't hurt the feelings of the OW/OM? Link to post Share on other sites
IfWishesWereHorses Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Maybe the BS's that come here with fresh wounds aren't here to give advice. Does that mean they shouldn't be here at all? Or, that their display of pain (or bitterness as you call it) isn't a valuable addition to the topic at hand? For their own good, BS's with frest wounds should stay away from the OW/OM board. That's not liable to happen though because they need to get a clue of what might be going on inside the OW's head. The whys and the hows. With the woulds fresh it is almost impossible not to be outraged by some of the things that are read in that forum. I think that once they come to grips with their reality somewhat THEN it can be helpful to them as well as possible the OP to read and post here. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 For their own good, BS's with frest wounds should stay away from the OW/OM board. That's not liable to happen though because they need to get a clue of what might be going on inside the OW's head. The whys and the hows. With the woulds fresh it is almost impossible not to be outraged by some of the things that are read in that forum. I think that once they come to grips with their reality somewhat THEN it can be helpful to them as well as possible the OP to read and post here. Yes, that is usually what happens, but you can't put the cart before the horse. If the BS come here with venom, then that is where they are at in the process. And, it is a process on both sides of the coin. Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 So are you saying that the BS"s should temper their emotions so that they don't hurt the feelings of the OW/OM? No, I am saying that it is very difficult for BSs who are still in great pain to be giving helpful advice to the OW/OMs who are on the "team" that caused such great pain. Yet we do have to look at it and ask....how helpful can our advice be if what we say is only hurting feelings? When I get on the Infidelity forum and answer a "My husband cheated on me" with a "What did YOU do to cause him to cheat" response, how can that be helpful to someone who is going through such pain? IMO BSs are not in a position to give advice if they are still overwhelmed in pain and grief. Their opinions of OWs and OMs (understandably) is going to be clouded with pain. This in turn will color the advice given. At that point one questions how helpful it is. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 No, I am saying that it is very difficult for BSs who are still in great pain to be giving helpful advice to the OW/OMs who are on the "team" that caused such great pain. Yet we do have to look at it and ask....how helpful can our advice be if what we say is only hurting feelings? When I get on the Infidelity forum and answer a "My husband cheated on me" with a "What did YOU do to cause him to cheat" response, how can that be helpful to someone who is going through such pain? IMO BSs are not in a position to give advice if they are still overwhelmed in pain and grief. Their opinions of OWs and OMs (understandably) is going to be clouded with pain. This in turn will color the advice given. At that point one questions how helpful it is. Like I said before, I don't think all BS's come here to give advice especially when they have fresh wounds. They come here to try and get some answers just like many OW's do. Link to post Share on other sites
lovestruck818 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Soooo...got a nasty little e-mail from his wife last night. It states: "Do you remember me. I'm ******'s WIFE. I'll tell you this little girl...you are messing with the wrong girl...I know more than you think." I'm not really sure what that means but I showed it to him and he didn't seem concerned. He is going to speak to her tonight. I am a little pissed just b/c this is not one-sided...HE initiated everything with me and I feel like she should have just spoken to him about it first instead of just going behind his back and e-mailing me like he did nothing wrong. I feel like I am talking to myself lol Anyway, she hijacked his phone and is reading his e-mails. I am cutting ties with him now, I have to. Link to post Share on other sites
IfWishesWereHorses Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 It is a process and people are free to post as they wish within the parameters of the site rules BUT... I sometimes think that its sad that on either board people cannot post everything that they wo uld like to convey because of a fear of being bashed. I can tell you that there are a few OW here who have been more honest about there situation on a public forum than I can even imagine being and they have stood up to tons of heat too. Many times over the last few years though even the amount of "behind the scenes" PM'ing on the infidelity board by bs's was higher than the posts because of people needing to vent without being bashed. I think it can be quite unfortunate. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 It is a process and people are free to post as they wish within the parameters of the site rules BUT... I sometimes think that its sad that on either board people cannot post everything that they wo uld like to convey because of a fear of being bashed. I can tell you that there are a few OW here who have been more honest about there situation on a public forum than I can even imagine being and they have stood up to tons of heat too. Many times over the last few years though even the amount of "behind the scenes" PM'ing on the infidelity board by bs's was higher than the posts because of people needing to vent without being bashed. I think it can be quite unfortunate. I truly believe that if we all could speak freely and honestly about how we feel, even if it becomes volatile, this forum would be more helpful than silencing the "bitterness" because it get uncomfortable. Link to post Share on other sites
IfWishesWereHorses Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I feel like I am talking to myself lol Anyway, she hijacked his phone and is reading his e-mails. I am cutting ties with him now, I have to. You might want to start your own thread on this love struck. (not that this one hasn't been completely high jacked anyway) I guess it turns out that she does care what he does. Link to post Share on other sites
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