guys who dont pay

[Untouchable_Fire]

That's understandable, in all fairness it IS wrong to say ALL men who don't offer to pay on a first date are just cheap because as you said some people draw from their past experiences and that is what leads them to act a certain way while on a date. On the same token it's unfair to call all women who like to be wowed a little in the early stages by the man, whores or golddiggers simply because you've encountered one or two of those you assume a lot of women are like that. A great deal of us are not like that.

 

There are several factors that complicate the issue. One is that the guys today are very aware of the way things used to be vs. how they are now. In he past the legal system and social morays put most of societies power in the hands of men. This entailed a lot of responsibility, but also gave a lot of power and control.

 

In todays society laws and regulations designed to provide safeguards for women in the past have actually created what many men perceive as a gender imbalance. Divorce courts are a great example, as are application quotas. In my area homeless single women have access to over 50 shelters, while men are provided less than 10.

 

So, to make a long story short, many men feel angry when faced with an expecation of holding to traditional values, with little or no benefit.

 

It's irrelevant why women have more options the fact stands we do.

 

There are consistently more single females of quality than single males. I will be the first to admit the vast majority of the male population are douchebags!

[Tomcat33]

There are several factors that complicate the issue. One is that the guys today are very aware of the way things used to be vs. how they are now. In he past the legal system and social morays put most of societies power in the hands of men. This entailed a lot of responsibility, but also gave a lot of power and control.

 

What does that have to do with dating though I am not following?

 

You are describing how society works today from a business stand point and how is that to be compared to dating and courting between a man and woman? I LOVE the fact that today I can wear a skin tight skirt to work that accents my body and I don't have to worry about some male coworker sneaking up behind me to pinch my ass. I love that there are laws that protect me from that. I love that when I walk into a meeting people will actually listen to what I have to offer the team as opposed to sizing my boobs and butt up and sending me off to get a coffee. Or that my boss won't offer me an indecent proposal to move up in the company, he will promote me on my own merrit and skill and hard work contributed to the role.

 

I was brought up in a traditional setting, working parents but mom who gave up career to be a mom and wife. Luckily my father made enough to support the entire family, and mom was more than happy doing that but she gave up a lot. From a very young age the girls so much as the boys in the family were taught that an education was fundamental that financial independence and a career were a good things it's the way the world was shifting and moving. So why would I expect to live in a world were ONLY men are rewared for their hard work and education level? I put in my 5 years of university and studied just as hard as men, is it wrong of me to want equality in the work place? Is that what some of you men feel we women should stop whining about? Let's face it women HAD to go to work there were increasing deamds in the workforce and all those jobs couldn't possibly be filled by just men. So what is the problem here? Is this what men feel SO incredibly ripped off about that women actually took upon themselves to want to be more than just secretaries or maids in the work force? We have to spend 40 hours a week too, is it THAT bad that we wanted to do something that we liked as well?

 

 

NOW that doesn't mean that when I leave work I don't like to be treated as a woman and to treat a man like a man likes to be treated. I like traditional values, and a man who does as well when it come to romance. I don't want to be off making out with another woman at some bar to say I FIT IN. I don't want to experiment having sex with another woman to say I am free spirited and open minded "I AM open minded and free spirited" it just involves doing the things that are true to who I am, not things that are dictated by a norm that is driven by the amount of porn consumption this generation is exposed to. I don't need to bend over backwards in such a way that does not conform to my values in order to be with a "modern" man. There are PLENTY of women out there who will have threesomes, and foursomes and open relationships, and hang out and do booty calls no strings attached, and become guy toys, and lesbian relationships and all that JUST to make guys like them. I am not one of those women.

 

 

I like to call a man on the phone over "chatting on MSN" I like locking eyes across the room with a man and exchanging smiles/glances when I am at social event VS taking out a contribed online profile on a dating site looking to "hook" the love of my life. I NEVER get offended because a stranger (male) wants to start a conversation with me at a pulic place, if I feel he is coming on to men and I am not interested I smile and tell him I am taken I don't go into some mental diatribe about how he is some kind of a pervert and call out SEXUAL HARASSMENT, I understand that men will try to chat up women when they see one they like I GET IT, and never get offended at that even if he is not my type by a long shot. I don't make "ewwww" faces or any of that "modern" stuff that seems to be so widely accepeted that seem to drive men packing in confusion.

 

I like baking something for the man I love, or ironing his shirt or working through his ups and downs at work and being his emotional sounding board when he is at a crossroads with his career, or being a down right pervert in the bedroom when the mood strikes me because I know we will enjoy it. I like serving him and his buddies beers and snacks while they watch the game on a sunday night. I LIKE ALL THOSE THINGS. Tradition when it comes to romance is good for me.

 

Then I wake up and put on my skirt suit and become one of the "boys" at work. I enjoy having financial stability and I love what I do. As a true woman I can wear many different hats and lose myself doing so.

 

 

 

There are consistently more single females of quality than single males. I will be the first to admit the vast majority of the male population are douchebags!

 

Really? I dunno about that there is a bit of everything in both genders. I think we tend to project blanket perconceptions based on what we know in ourselves. I tend to be a little more open minded than that, but if there are consistenty more females of quality and ALL men are douchebags that is the more reason why we should not let guys off the hook.

 

I don't share that point of view, I was making a joke, k?

[Enema]

 

I do realize what you are saying here. I have no problem with 50/50. But this guy ASKED ME FOR MONEY, This guy wanted me to buy him a candy bar...Whats next! We are not boyfriend and girlfriend. I don't ask for anything from him. I feel like I am doing more giving so far than receiving.

 

That's a lie. You have a big problem with 50/50 - at least on the first few dates.

 

The guy had the privilege of taking you out and paying for two full dates, then has the nerve to ask you for a dollar for candy. What a jerk! /sarcasm

[Tomcat33]

Corrrection this was supposed to say:

 

As a true woman I can wear many different hats and not lose myself/identity doing so.

[OpenBook]

Wow. You went from this --

 

Bitter Old Biddy Syndrome.

 

to this --

 

Everyone gets a specific scenario that they have lived stuck in their head an then argues it.

 

For me its been the times I paid for a woman only to find 3 dates later she already had a BF. I wanted to send her an invoice! She lied and took my time and my money.

 

What happened? And do you want me to call you a nasty name in return? Who knows, it could be some kind of love language to you.:D

[Untouchable_Fire]

I like baking something for the man I love, or ironing his shirt or working through his ups and downs at work and being his emotional sounding board when he is at a crossroads with his career, or being a down right pervert in the bedroom when the mood strikes me because I know we will enjoy it. I like serving him and his buddies beers and snacks while they watch the game on a sunday night. I LIKE ALL THOSE THINGS. Tradition when it comes to romance is good for me.

Then I wake up and put on my skirt suit and become one of the "boys" at work. I enjoy having financial stability and I love what I do. As a true woman I can wear many different hats and lose myself doing so.

 

I think you put that better than I could myself.

 

I sense many of the guys here are just upset at the amount of women who demand equal treatment in some situations and special treatment in other situations. Combined with pervasive and irrational advantages in the legal system and other social institutions. IMHO, women should be equal and safe in the workplace, and should be treated equally in social systems and in courts.

 

Explain to me why I should be required front $100 to take a woman out on a date when she makes the same money as I? What do I get in return? If she doesn't want to date me or isn't that attracted I would rather her say no. No doesn't bother me. Why should I bear the full financial risk of a failed date? I gain nothing a woman does not gain in finding a successful relationship... yet a bear the fiscal burden.

 

Really? I dunno about that there is a bit of everything in both genders. I think we tend to project blanket perconceptions based on what we know in ourselves. I tend to be a little more open minded than that, but if there are consistenty more females of quality and ALL men are douchebags that is the more reason why we should not let guys off the hook.

I don't share that point of view, I was making a joke, k?

 

Uh... what percentage of the female population is currently in prison? Compare that to the male population. I think you get my overall point. Quality men are much more rare as a %.

[OpenBook]

The only reason women still have more options is the increasingly weak idea that they offer/control something of value (sex) that men desperately seek. this type of women are increasingly staying single, being out-dated by chill girls that approach relationships on equal terms.

 

Do you REALLY think that's why we are "increasingly staying single"?

[TwilightSky]

I think you put that better than I could myself.

 

I sense many of the guys here are just upset at the amount of women who demand equal treatment in some situations and special treatment in other situations. Combined with pervasive and irrational advantages in the legal system and other social institutions. IMHO, women should be equal and safe in the workplace, and should be treated equally in social systems and in courts.

 

Explain to me why I should be required front $100 to take a woman out on a date when she makes the same money as I? What do I get in return? If she doesn't want to date me or isn't that attracted I would rather her say no. No doesn't bother me. Why should I bear the full financial risk of a failed date? I gain nothing a woman does not gain in finding a successful relationship... yet a bear the fiscal burden.

 

 

 

Uh... what percentage of the female population is currently in prison? Compare that to the male population. I think you get my overall point. Quality men are much more rare as a %.

 

In concerns to the male population vs female population in prison thing, well, judges do tend to be more lenient to women. Sure, that only accounts for some of the difference, but I don't think the difference in "quality" is so vast as you are making it out to be.

[Untouchable_Fire]

What happened? And do you want me to call you a nasty name in return? Who knows, it could be some kind of love language to you.:D

 

Depends on what kind of nasty name you want to call me .

 

You might get lucky and find I have some kind of shrew fetish.

[OpenBook]

It puts men in the dominant position and in control, b/c he has the money, so-to-speak.

 

Nope. It puts him in the position of Host of the Date. It's a really nice thing for a gentleman to do for a lady. Period.

[OpenBook]

Depends on what kind of nasty name you want to call me .

 

You might get lucky and find I have some kind of shrew fetish.

 

:lmao: Get in line, honey! If you could only see the 20/30-something's that hit on me on a daily basis... Yeah, it amazes me too. Damndest thing I've ever seen. It must be a trend or something! I never got this much attention when I was in my 20's and 30's. Ever.

[Untouchable_Fire]

In concerns to the male population vs female population in prison thing, well, judges do tend to be more lenient to women. Sure, that only accounts for some of the difference, but I don't think the difference in "quality" is so vast as you are making it out to be.

 

??? This will be a circular and rather pointless argument. Either believe me or don't. I'm not trying to say that there are only 5 decent guys in the world. Essentially I am saying that due to average social and personal requirements there are more relationship worthy females than males. Consider... women tend to have higher Emotional IQ's, have much lower fiscal requirements... ect.

 

Do you think Lucky is going to date some poor schmuck with no job? I doubt it. Would I date a woman who is unemployed... yes... as would many other guys.

 

So, just take a second and think about what I am actually saying. I could be totally wrong, but I doubt it.

[The Collector]

Nope. It puts him in the position of Host of the Date. It's a really nice thing for a gentleman to do for a lady. Period.

 

And it's a really nice thing for a lady to fellate a gentleman. Can I expect that on every first date?

[Tomcat33]

Oh and another thing, I don't know WHAT you guys keep going on and on and on about how women work as much as men do why should men pay:

 

When my father was dating my mother, SHE WORKED TOO AND she lived at home with her folks but she was working in her career and earning a very decent check for the time, and guess what? MY dad paid for it all no questions asked!

To this day my dad will want to pick up the tab if we are all out it makes him feel good even though we are all self sufficient he LIKES that, he likes being the man in charge.

 

Ask your parents who paid for what when they were dating especially those of you who had working moms.

 

This stupid excuse that because everyone works now women should pay half is only an extension of the apathy SOME men feel towards women because they are so used to the ME generation and instant gratification whereby they put 0 effort demanding the world in return. They'd rather blow $300 on some cyber prostitute typing away telling her to shove things up her butt so that he can jerk off, than spend $40 on a few drinks getting to know a REAL woman in REAL time

 

It has JACK to do with the fact that now women work too.

 

I don't know who you men that complain are in real life and I have dated quite a bit I have NEVER encountered men like that, so either you are the mionority or I've been EXTREMELY lucky! I doubt it's the latter...

[mr.dream merchant]

Pretty harsh to assume that a guy who'd rather go half on dinners rather than fork out all of his hard earned money on a meal his SO could just as easily go half on - and should, will blow $300 on a "cyber prostitute". I'd rather blow $500 on you so you wouldn't be such a bitter sexist. Get over it, it isn't dating protocol for the guy to pay for everything anymore. Just like it isn't protocol to uphold certain values that were popular back in the day.

[Untouchable_Fire]

:lmao: Get in line, honey! If you could only see the 20/30-something's that hit on me on a daily basis... Yeah, it amazes me too. Damndest thing I've ever seen. It must be a trend or something! I never got this much attention when I was in my 20's and 30's. Ever.

 

Ok... so you nailed down my demographic.

 

LOL.... yeah we like the older ones because they are more likely to get down to business right away. Less whining and dinning required... .

[Tomcat33]

Get over it, it isn't dating protocol for the guy to pay for everything anymore. Just like it isn't protocol to uphold certain values that were popular back in the day.

 

 

You get over it, I am a woman I know what guys do on a date are like I think a LOT more than you would unless you date men, but men in the gay world is different. Most men I encounter are more than willing to pay. It IS popular for men to pay in this day and age and to want to do it.

 

You can personally rebell against it all you want. It IS your right. Good luck with that!

[Tomcat33]

I'd rather blow $500 on you so you wouldn't be such a bitter sexist. .

 

 

I appreciate the offer but keep your $500, you need it WAY more than I ever will.

[mr.dream merchant]

As soon as you get off your throne and stop expecting to be fed things because you're a female. Matter of fact who's okay with a female who spends her time feuding on LS when she should be in the kitchen cookin up some dinner? You see where I'm going with this? Yes you do. So stop your pointless crusade and update to present day Earth.

[mr.dream merchant]

I appreciate the offer but keep your $500, you need it WAY more than I ever will.

 

And if you can't stay civil then stay away from the keyboard.

[Untouchable_Fire]

You get over it, I am a woman I know what guys do on a date are like I think a LOT more than you would unless you date men, but men in the gay world is different. Most men I encounter are more than willing to pay. It IS popular for men to pay in this day and age and to want to do it.

You can personally rebell against it all you want. It IS your right. Good luck with that!

 

That's the point. We are forced to pay by societal standards. Do you think those guys want to pay for you on the first date?

 

If I like you... I would be HAPPY to pay once I know there is mutual attraction.

 

The question stands... all things being equal... Why should I be the only one to have to pay to find out?

 

That is what makes Lucky's snivel fest so annoying.

[Tomcat33]

As soon as you get off your throne and stop expecting to be fed things because you're a female. Matter of fact who's okay with a female who spends her time feuding on LS when she should be in the kitchen cookin up some dinner? You see where I'm going with this? Yes you do. So stop your pointless crusade and update to present day Earth.

 

 

As a matter of fact I was just off to make myself something to snack on, would you like me to make you some as well? It's not beneath me to make food for a man you know.

 

:laugh: I am not "adjusting" to anything different you silly boy. My present day on earth reality, involves a man picking up the tab after a first date. End of story really.

 

I like the way I operate it has worked tremendously well for me so far and I will continue to conduct my dating life in this manner. Part of the dating game is also ruling out the "undesirables" if everyone were desired how could we even fall in love?

[Tomcat33]

That's the point. We are forced to pay by societal standards. Do you think those guys want to pay for you on the first date?

 

 

 

Listen hun NO ONE is forcing you to do anything! If you don't feel a woman is worth paying for the date, then DON'T.

 

It's pretty simple really. I don't want a man to pay for me who doesn't feel like doing that. That's just stupid! I think most decent women want to know that the guy is doing it because he would LIKE to not out of some sense of obligation or dating protocol. You have NO obligation to a woman you just met on a first date.

[Tomcat33]

And if you can't stay civil then stay away from the keyboard.

 

Oh please, you call this:

 

I'd rather blow $500 on you so you wouldn't be such a bitter sexist. Get over it, it isn't dating protocol for the guy to pay for everything anymore. Just like it isn't protocol to uphold certain values that were popular back in the day.

 

Staying civil? You wanna go with low blows, bring it on bro, I can play too. But don't cry mommy when I push back. Practice what you preach.

Cool?

 

 

Do you think those guys want to pay for you on the first date?

 

Do you think women really mean it when they tell you they love you? OR do you think they really enjoy swallowing your gizz? Or do you think they are really comming when when they are monaing and groaning?

 

The answer for me is YES. I really do think they want to pay.

[OpenBook]

I sense many of the guys here are just upset at the amount of women who demand equal treatment in some situations and special treatment in other situations.

 

Let me try to explain it. You're right, we do demand equal treatment in the workplace and other social institutions... but expect different (yes, special) treatment in the romantic realm. We're still women, even though we're out there in the jungle right alongside you guys working our @sses off for that almighty paycheck. But we still want to be women... and we still want you to be the man, when it comes to romantic relationships. It's the stuff life is made of!

 

Combined with pervasive and irrational advantages in the legal system and other social institutions. IMHO, women should be equal and safe in the workplace, and should be treated equally in social systems and in courts.

 

Completely agree with you! I would really like to see maternity leave for fathers, for example - the exact same rights and benefits a woman gets when she has a baby. Fathers have babies too!! albeit not in the same way. And I would also like to see fathers carrying equal legal weight to mothers in the courts. We're getting there... all too slowly, but it is changing.

 

But the mating dance is a completely different story. Would you REALLY want a woman to take the lead, make all the moves, and pay for everything?? The guys I know, it would totally creep them out!