Touche Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Ugh...sure... Being a great mother has nothing to do with being a SAHM. Those two things GUARANTEED, are not synonymous. If you believe so, then you're sadly deluded. Being a great mother doesn't have anything to do with being a SAHM. You're right. And nope, I'm not deluded. I've done BOTH though (SAHM, and working mom...can you say the same?) It takes a LOT more than just that. You're right. But my point is, you have really NO chance, by definition, of being a GREAT mom if you're not there to even BE a mom? Get it? Now if you think otherwise, there's the delusion. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Being a great mother doesn't have anything to do with being a SAHM. You're right. And nope, I'm not deluded. I've done BOTH though (SAHM, and working mom...can you say the same?) It takes a LOT more than just that. You're right. But my point is, you have really NO chance, by definition, of being a GREAT mom if you're not there to even BE a mom? Get it? Now if you think otherwise, there's the delusion. You and I don't agree with what comprises a good mother, nvm a great mother. So let's just agree to disagree. Point blank, I know I'm going to make a great mother, whether it's as a SAHM or career woman. That's just a given. Link to post Share on other sites
sb129 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I do not have children and believe it is very easy to say "oh do this or do that" when not being a parent means I cannot fully understand the demands, emotions, etc entailed by that.. I am in the same position, however, my H and I are trying for a baby, and naturally we have discussed this issue alot lately. I am the primary breadwinner in our household- I earn twice what my H earns. If I become a full time SAHM, we will not be able to continue to pay our mortgage and will have to move out of our home. We have enough in savings to cover it for the 6mths I plan to take off as maternity leave, but not more. At present, I work 30 hours a week over 4 days. Those hours are distributed as such that I wouldn't miss a great deal of day-time with a baby if I went back to work (only two 9-5 days). My husband is a teacher and gets home around 4pm most days, and has over 12 weeks of paid holiday a year. We have decided that we will try to continue as we are, and hire a nanny for the 20 hours a week neither of us are there. . And those who can afford nannies and domestic help, don't have to work. So those are the people I'm talking about. We can afford a nanny- but not if I don't go back to work. Check out this article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/terry-real/the-myth-of-quality-time_b_84181.html I agree with this article its not the first time I have heard these kind of opinions. I am prepared to receive criticism both IRL and on here for the decisions we have made. I am also aware that things may not work out as we have planned and we may have to change things later. However, seeing as my H and I are united on this at this time we feel it is the right decision for us both. Link to post Share on other sites
Touche Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 You and I don't agree with what comprises a good mother, nvm a great mother. So let's just agree to disagree. I don't really see how you can know that we don't agree on what it means to be a great mother. You have no clue whatsoever about what I think makes a great mother. None. Point blank, I know I'm going to make a great mother, whether it's as a SAHM or career woman. That's just a given. That's like saying "I know I'll make a great race car driver once I learn how to drive and once I get my license." There are no givens when it comes to something you've never done. Link to post Share on other sites
sb129 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Ain't that the truth- it terrifies me no end! My H and I think that the decisions we are making now won't be detrimental to our child, however we are prepared to be wrong about that and make some changes! WB would consider being a SAHD. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I know you well Touche and your parenting techniques. Link to post Share on other sites
Meaplus3 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Point blank, I know I'm going to make a great mother, whether it's as a SAHM or career woman. That's just a given. You know what.. you really truly don't know that until YOU become a mother. I'm not trying to say that you won't be a good mother but, ya gotta be right in it to know. All the things my mom said to me before I became a mom I once laughed at. I should never have laughed because they were all true. I thought I would have a ton more patience than I have, I thought I'd never raise my voice and I thought all this before I had 3 of my own. Now back to Career...vs..SAHM.. Really it's a personal choice to be made. Weather ones a stay at home mom or a working mom it's the quality of parenting that matters the most. Mea:) Link to post Share on other sites
Touche Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I am in the same position, however, my H and I are trying for a baby, and naturally we have discussed this issue alot lately. I am the primary breadwinner in our household- I earn twice what my H earns. If I become a full time SAHM, we will not be able to continue to pay our mortgage and will have to move out of our home. We have enough in savings to cover it for the 6mths I plan to take off as maternity leave, but not more. At present, I work 30 hours a week over 4 days. Those hours are distributed as such that I wouldn't miss a great deal of day-time with a baby if I went back to work (only two 9-5 days). My husband is a teacher and gets home around 4pm most days, and has over 12 weeks of paid holiday a year. We have decided that we will try to continue as we are, and hire a nanny for the 20 hours a week neither of us are there. We can afford a nanny- but not if I don't go back to work. I agree with this article its not the first time I have heard these kind of opinions. I am prepared to receive criticism both IRL and on here for the decisions we have made. I am also aware that things may not work out as we have planned and we may have to change things later. However, seeing as my H and I are united on this at this time we feel it is the right decision for us both. Sorry but I don't get the bolded part, SB. Why the heck would you even need a nanny if one of you were home with the baby? I'm not getting that. All I was saying is that if you can afford a nanny, you can afford not to work. Why work AND then hire a nanny? Makes no sense. Unless you're making ridiculous amounts of money the financial cost of working (never mind the toll it takes on the family) is just not worth it. The ROI is pitiful on so many levels. That was my point. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 You know what.. you really truly don't know that until YOU become a mother. I'm not trying to say that you won't be a good mother but, ya gotta be right in it to know. All the things my mom said to me before I became a mom I once laughed at. I should never have laughed because they were all true. I thought I would have a ton more patience than I have, I thought I'd never raise my voice and I thought all this before I had 3 of my own. Now back to Career...vs..SAHM.. Really it's a personal choice to be made. Weather ones a stay at home mom or a working mom it's the quality of parenting that matters the most. Mea:) Mea, I've handled a lot of children, including handi-capped children. I can get cooperation from any child I've had the pleasure to deal with, not from fear but from positive reinforcement. I don't need to yell, scream or physically abuse a child to get their cooperation. My RL friends come to me for advice with their children and get me to talk to their children. This doesn't make me a wonderful, fantastic person. It just makes me someone who can communicate with children and someone who adores them and they know it. Link to post Share on other sites
Touche Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I know you well Touche and your parenting techniques. Actually, you don't. You've never seen me with my child and you really have no idea what my values concerning child-rearing really are. You've never seen them put into practice and you really are just guessing. SB, I really respect your saying that your open to other options. You really just don't know until you've actually had the child. Like MEA said, everything you think before your have a child might go flying out the window once you've had your own. I don't even care how many times you've babysat or how many nephews/nieces you have. It's SOOOOO different once you've had your own that you're 100% responsible for molding and nurturing. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Actually, you don't. You've never seen me with my child and you really have no idea what my values concerning child-rearing really are. You've never seen them put into practice and you really are just guessing. You're right. I can only go by what you've told me...and also what your son has told me. Link to post Share on other sites
sb129 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Sorry but I don't get the bolded part, SB. Why the heck would you even need a nanny if one of you were home with the baby? I'm not getting that. All I was saying is that if you can afford a nanny, you can afford not to work. Why work AND then hire a nanny? Makes no sense. Unless you're making ridiculous amounts of money the financial cost of working (never mind the toll it takes on the family) is just not worth it. The ROI is pitiful on so many levels. That was my point. If I go back to work, we will need a nanny because we will both be working, but we will then be able to afford to pay her as I will be working and there will be more money coming in. I do earn significantly more than my H. I am a high-wage earner, but luckily I don't have to work ridiculously long hours. I earn enough to be able to pay a nanny AND still have extra money. If I don't work, we won't be able to pay our mortgage AND all the other expenses on my Hs income alone. We are planning on hiring a nanny for about 20hours a week after I go back to work after the maternity leave. If this doesn't work out, we will discuss other options. Link to post Share on other sites
Touche Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Mea, I've handled a lot of children, including handi-capped children. I can get cooperation from any child I've had the pleasure to deal with, not from fear but from positive reinforcement. I don't need to yell, scream or physically abuse a child to get their cooperation. My RL friends come to me for advice with their children and get me to talk to their children. This doesn't make me a wonderful, fantastic person. It just makes me someone who can communicate with children and someone who adores them and they know it. Ya gotta love it! Trust me, our kids are ALWAYS different with others who aren't their parents. Parents, am I right or am I right? WE see the true child..you see only who they want you to see. Most of us who are parents can communicate with our children just fine. And most of us, do more than adore them, we LOVE them. Sure some of us may lose our cool every now and then...some of the best parents DO. But that doesn't mean we aren't GREAT parents. We're at the very least THERE for them. And that means everything to a child. You think a child thinks "well my mom must love me because she spends quality time with me and hardly ever loses it even though I never see her." Or does the child think "well my mom isn't perfect...she might lose her patience with me now and then but at least she's THERE for me and doesn't make me stay with other people." (And I use "she" and "mom" the same as I'd use "he" and "dad." No difference there.) Link to post Share on other sites
sb129 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 One of those "other options" is WB being a SAHD. Another is moving to a cheaper house/ area. What is ROI? Link to post Share on other sites
Meaplus3 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I've handled a lot of children, including handi-capped children. I can get cooperation from any child I've had the pleasure to deal with, not from fear but from positive reinforcement. I have know doubt that you have that ability. But at the end of the day those children go home. Your not responsible for them any longer. So.. it's not likely that Junior is going to take his sippy cup of milk and throw it across the room.. and make you feel like you just want to scream. I don't even care how many times you've babysat or how many nephews/nieces you have. It's SOOOOO different once you've had your own that you're 100% responsible for molding and nurturing. Exactly! Mea:) Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Sure some of us may lose our cool every now and then...some of the best parents DO. But that doesn't mean we aren't GREAT parents. We're at the very least THERE for them. And that means everything to a child. Sure, just like you love your mother but can't honestly say she's a great mother, right? Was she a SAHM? Link to post Share on other sites
sb129 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 BTW- For those of you that don't know, I am a dentist, and I have a particular knack for getting kids to be brilliantly behaved while they have treatment done. Injections, fillings, root canal, you name it I can usually get a kid to have it done with no fuss, no tears, no stress. Other dentists have asked me what my secrets are- TBH I don't really know. I am pretty sure I will be a decent parent, however its not the same thing. No offense TBF, I know you love kids, and there is no reason you WON'T be a great parent. But its not a given. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I have know doubt that you have that ability. But at the end of the day those children go home. Your not responsible for them any longer. So.. it's not likely that Junior is going to take his sippy cup of milk and throw it across the room.. and make you feel like you just want to scream. If I can handle handi-capped children in a full rage, I think my own child will be less of a challenge, no? Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 No offense TBF, I know you love kids, and there is no reason you WON'T be a great parent. But its not a given. No offense taken but in this, it's a given. Link to post Share on other sites
Meaplus3 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 If I can handle handi-capped children in a full rage, I think my own child will be less of a challenge, no? Oh..TBF.. it's hard to explain. It's just very different when their your own. They know how to push your buttons because your their mom. Perhaps a new thread should be started about what makes a good mother? Mea:) Link to post Share on other sites
Touche Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 You're right. I can only go by what you've told me...and also what your son has told me. WTF?OMG, you're too funny. Obviously you don't even recognize when a kid has a sense of humor. He loves to pull my chain. He's almost a TEEN! Do you really not understand kids to that degree? Wow. You don't know when they're trying to "get Mom?":laugh: Go by what I've told you? Are we making this personal now, TBF? What have I ever, EVER told you that goes against anything I've said here? Nada. Being a parent IS challenging. Is that what you're alluding to? That I've said it's no cake-walk and that YES I lose it and yell sometimes? Woopity doo..what parent hasn't? Sheesh...you're just being silly now. As for my mother, (since you insist on making this personal) yes, she was a GREAT mother. My problems with her are as an adult mostly. Sure she wasn't perfect. But she never pawned us off in daycare or with a nanny. So in that regard, yep, she was a GREAT mother. SB, I really do respect your open-minded views on this. You and WB really have the right idea. Oh and ROI means "return on investment." In other words, the "fulfillment" and sense of "accomplishment" you get from working is nowhere near the cost and price your kids pay for that, IMO. MEA, I can't tell you how much I respect you. What you do is tough as hell. I mean I know how hard it can be with just our one guy...but you are a wonder with your three! I truly admire what you do. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Oh..TBF.. it's hard to explain. It's just very different when their your own. They know how to push your buttons because your their mom. Perhaps a new thread should be started about what makes a good mother? Mea:) Sure, start one. Beyond that, I've been very close to my nephews. They consider me their surrogate mother, since I was also the birthing partner for my SIL for the youngest nephew. They know my buttons too but I don't let them get to me. Link to post Share on other sites
calazhage Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Hilarious... Playing with babies on occasion is not nearly the same as raising one 24 7 365. Some people are not thinking logically. This is what happens when every topic one posts on is trying to further an agenda. Let's say you have a baby or 2. You have a husband. A busy career. Well, sometimes the kids are up crying all night, which keeps you up. Just one small example. So you are up all night, then go to work all day, then come home and spend "quality time", and cook dinner, and tend to your husbands needs, and do everything else you need to do..Over, and over, and over. No breaks. Unless of course you are wealthy and hire live in help so you never have to deal with your kids, except for playing with them for a bit. How much will your work suffer? How will you feel after days of no sleep? How will your sex life be? Your exercise routine? Will you be offering "positive reinforcement" after work stress, little sleep, husband stress, etc etc. Really quite silly.. In reality your husband would become miserable, you would start yelling at your kids, and you would do a crappy job at work.. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Touche's alternate reality... Link to post Share on other sites
sb129 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 If I can handle handi-capped children in a full rage, I think my own child will be less of a challenge, no? Not necessarily. I think Mea explained it that its different when its your own. I can handle the biggest drama queens, cry-babies, psychopaths, freaks, irrational people etc etc etc at work- I have limitless patience for these people. However, if I am made to wait more than 3 minutes on hold while some idiot checks my insurance premium or phone bill AGAIN, then I have no patience. I have endless patience for elderly ladies who tell me the same story over and over and over again at work, but my aunt has an annoying habit of doing the same thing, and my patience with her has run out. I don't mind if some people gag and feel sick while they are having treatment, but when my H did it, I told him to get a grip. No offense taken but in this, it's a given. It isn't a given. Its actually quite arrogant of you to say that. You know I like you TBF, but I do think you should back off on this- as you have no leg to stand on. You honestly cannot predict the future on this. Neither can I - I THINK I will be a good parent, but I have no way of knowing this FOR SURE. Feel free to correct me when you do have children, and you turn out (as I am pretty sure you will) to be a great mom. Link to post Share on other sites
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