His wife is a ventilated quadriplegic.

[bentnotbroken]

Life is very black and white for a large number of people.

 

Its grey for those that choose to live that way. Its a CHOICE in outlook more than anything else. You prefer to see the world in shades of grey, so grey it is. I clearly see it differently than you do. That doesn't make my view or your view the "right" one...but it does mean that we'll never agree on a great many things. And it also means that your choices will often be far different from each others as well.

 

I actually agree that Wyld is attempting to do the right thing as best as she can. She came here posting her situation and looking for input. You provided it based off your world view, and so did I. Neither of us were disrespectful to her or of her.

 

I completely recognize that you (and others) won't change your view or opinions on things. I don't expect you to conform to my choices...but...I DO expect you to be respectful of them, as you would expect of others to beof yours. I'll not "condemn" your advice if I disagree with it...and expect the same in return. Simple enough.

 

 

 

I agree with everything you have posted. There is only gray when you mix the two colors. I like living my life in black and white and lot fewer complications. But I also agree with TC, most people don't live their lives that way, they like the gray. Hence the state of our society. Mixing the colors to suit what we want and everyone else be damned. A pity really.

[noforgiveness]

It's funny the only one really arguing this is TC. Everyone else is pretty much in agreement as to what the right thing to do is including the original poster.

 

Hmmmm is it possible TC just likes to argue for arguments sake? To insult people and try to feel superior? Or does she truly believe there is nothing wrong with being on such an intimate level with someone and then going behind their back and having a relationship with the husband. What does that say about her?

It's a pretty simple concept. It is not right to sleep with your dying patients husband. Don't take it any longer and if you are going to then step down from her care.

[Lookingforward]

It's funny the only one really arguing this is TC. Everyone else is pretty much in agreement as to what the right thing to do is including the original poster.

 

Hmmmm is it possible TC just likes to argue for arguments sake? To insult people and try to feel superior? Or does she truly believe there is nothing wrong with being on such an intimate level with someone and then going behind their back and having a relationship with the husband. What does that say about her?

It's a pretty simple concept. It is not right to sleep with your dying patients husband. Don't take it any longer and if you are going to then step down from her care.

 

OP never said she was sleeping with the H, just that their relationship has progressed further than "friends" , that it has in fact become "love" and that she is considering stepping back from a romantic attachment as long as they are in this current situation regarding his dying W.

 

This is what she asked for input and advice on.

[Tomcat33]

OP never said she was sleeping with the H, just that their relationship has progressed further than "friends" , that it has in fact become "love" and that she is considering stepping back from a romantic attachment as long as they are in this current situation regarding his dying W.

 

This is what she asked for input and advice on.

 

 

Exactly.

 

And OWL and the others that keep blaming me for confusing things about introducing the notion that Wyldflower is having sex with the H, do take note as to who is actually doing that:

 

 

noforgiveness

It's a pretty simple concept. It is not right to sleep with your dying patients husband. Don't take it any longer and if you are going to then step down from her care.

 

I am SO done here.

 

Wyldflower continue to PM me and I will gladly continue to talk to you one on one there.

 

This thread has ran its course as far as I am concerned and I really don't see the point of debating any one's views. Wyld, you are the main concern here as you are the one who has reached out for help and I will gladly continue to talk you one on one.

[jj2007]

Exactly.

 

And OWL and the others that keep blaming me for confusing things about introducing the notion that Wyldflower is having sex with the H, do take note as to who is actually doing that:

 

 

 

 

I am SO done here.

 

Wyldflower continue to PM me and I will gladly continue to talk to you one on one there.

 

This thread has ran its course as far as I am concerned and I really don't see the point of debating any one's views. Wyld, you are the main concern here as you are the one who has reached out for help and I will gladly continue to talk you one on one.

 

Well, I for one am SO GLAD that you decided to stop forcefeeding your opinions to others on this thread!

 

Until next time, next thread....................

[sb129]

I can't believe that people think that others are supporting Wyldflower only to support their own OW agenda...

 

I am not an OW... and I appreciate the dilemma she is in. I am not encouraging her to "go for it" with the H, however I haven't had to resort to nastiness to get that message across.

[Lookingforward]

Wyld, you may also want to step back and consider that this is a very intense situation for the H and while not saying they ARE, mind you, it MAY be that part of the intensity of his feelings for you are derived from this particular situation in which you both find yourselves.

 

That said, you may want to give yourself some space and time and distance from this situation until it is resolved. I'm not saying they will, but once his W has passed and this emotional storm in which he finds himself has passed, you may find the H's feelings towards you could change.

 

Apart from giving your full duty of care to your patient and wishing to 'be there' for the H for whom you now have feelings yourself, it would be best to give yourself this space to guard your own heart, especially considering your response to whether or not you would be hurt to hear him declaring his feelings to his W.

 

Just something else to think about anyway.

[whichwayisup]

especially considering your response to whether or not you would be hurt to hear him declaring his feelings to his

 

I agree that she does have to guard her heart.

 

This man has every right to tell his wife that he loves her, to talk to her during her last days. THAT is going to hurt wyld and THAT will affect her ability to give her 100% professionalism to his wife. Even if she feels he isn't "inlove" with his wife (in the sense of butterflies in the tummy etc) he still DOES love his wife.

 

IF she wasn't in this state, (his wife I mean) he would still be happily married. I understand though that the roles have changed, they aren't husband and wife like they used to be, but that still doesn't take away his love for her - Sexually maybe, but not emotionally and in the heart.

[luvmy2ns]

Well, I for one am SO GLAD that you decided to stop forcefeeding your opinions to others on this thread!

 

Until next time, next thread....................

 

Ya think?! lol

[pelicanpreacher]

Exactly.

 

And OWL and the others that keep blaming me for confusing things about introducing the notion that Wyldflower is having sex with the H, do take note as to who is actually doing that:

 

 

 

 

I am SO done here.

 

Wyldflower continue to PM me and I will gladly continue to talk to you one on one there.

 

This thread has ran its course as far as I am concerned and I really don't see the point of debating any one's views. Wyld, you are the main concern here as you are the one who has reached out for help and I will gladly continue to talk you one on one.

 

No-one is blaming you for this confusion for it seemed implied by Wylde's initial post and then clarified by her later on. At this point you're not even trying to twist everyone's words but merely trying to ram yours down everyone's throat. You need to take a step back from yourself and chill!

 

Wylde is the team leader for a care unit responsible for the daily needs of a dying woman who's been totally incapacitated by a tragically debilitating disease. She came here for advice because she experienced a crisis of conflict on what to do since she has gotten so involved in this case that she has fallen in love with her ward's spouse. I believe that she is fully aware by now of the ethical and possible legal ramifications of pursuing a relationship with this man under these very difficult circumstances and has indicated that she may rethink her position on remaining part of the care team. As Lakeside said, "You can't help how you feel" which is absolutely true, however, as an intelligent and rational woman she still has the power to exercise free will and reflect upon the guidelines set forth by her profession and follow them to the letter. Although you, TC, believe there is leeway to perceive this situation in shades of grey you might want to look over your shoulder for the entire medical community is standing behind you glaring a hole in the back of your head!

[luvmy2ns]

No-one is blaming you for this confusion for it seemed implied by Wylde's initial post and then clarified by her later on. At this point you're not even trying to twist everyone's words but merely trying to ram yours down everyone's throat. You need to take a step back from yourself and chill!

 

Wylde is the team leader for a care unit responsible for the daily needs of a dying woman who's been totally incapacitated by a tragically debilitating disease. She came here for advice because she experienced a crisis of conflict on what to do since she has gotten so involved in this case that she has fallen in love with her ward's spouse. I believe that she is fully aware by now of the ethical and possible legal ramifications of pursuing a relationship with this man under these very difficult circumstances and has indicated that she may rethink her position on remaining part of the care team. As Lakeside said, "You can't help how you feel" which is absolutely true, however, as an intelligent and rational woman she still has the power to exercise free will and reflect upon the guidelines set forth by her profession and follow them to the letter. Although you, TC, believe there is leeway to perceive this situation in shades of grey you might want to look over your shoulder for the entire medical community is standing behind you glaring a hole in the back of your head!

 

Exactly. Like I said earlier,

I'll bet her employers would think it's a black and white situation. Wanna argue with them too? You can be her attorney at her hearing with her personnel staff.

[Tomcat33]

No-one is blaming you for this confusion for it seemed implied by Wylde's initial post and then clarified by her later on.

 

WRONG! Read on.

 

Not having sex does NOT equate to the woman not being aware of a love relationship developing between the OP and her husband. Its entirely possible that she can/has seen this relationship forming. Sex has nothing to do with it, or her ability to know about the relationship. This isn't rocket science.

 

 

I think it was TC's analogy that confused the issue for some

 

I'm confused, I thought they weren't having sex and this was just an emotional thing.

 

I know, but she keeps bringing up sex and I didn't think sex was part of the issue. I thought that wyld was only emotionally involved.

 

But it is clear who introduced this idea very early on and read the thread if you wish.

 

It's funny the only one really arguing this is TC. Everyone else is pretty much in agreement as to what the right thing to do is including the original poster.

 

Hmmmm is it possible TC just likes to argue for arguments sake? To insult people and try to feel superior? Or does she truly believe there is nothing wrong with being on such an intimate level with someone and then going behind their back and having a relationship with the husband. What does that say about her?

It's a pretty simple concept. It is not right to sleep with your dying patients husband. Don't take it any longer and if you are going to then step down from her care.

 

Now I am done.

[Virgo1982]

WRONG! Read on.

 

 

 

 

 

But it is clear who introduced this idea very early on and read the thread if you wish.

 

 

 

Now I am done.

 

Wow..............

[luvmy2ns]

WRONG! Read on.

 

 

But it is clear who introduced this idea very early on and read the thread if you wish.

 

 

Now I am done.

 

Again it is a personal moral choice, me personally if I became paralized from the waist down and was dying I would never deprive my husband from finding sexual happiness again. What kind of a selfish person castrates their partner and expects them to also lose their sexuality and emotion because they are dying. I couldn't do that to a man I loved.

I wouldn't want to punish him for my misfortune. I understand it is until death do you part but C'MON!

 

Would you expect your H sit by your side if you were paralized and you were NOT dying but could never have sex again, would you deprive your H of having sex with anoyone else ever again? Again it is personal choice and if that works between you and your partner the more power to you, I find that extremely selfish, I could not do that to a man I love but to each their own....

 

What are you god that you have exact dates and times? No. So let's not use examples as if we were playing god. My answer stays the same provided I am paralized and can no longer function as a sexual being my answer stays the same, one year two years, 2 months.

 

And can you please explain HOW is my analogy of be being paralized and completely finished sexually any different than what the woman in this thread explained about the woman in her case:

 

she is incapable of having any form of physical sexual relationship whatsoever for 5 YEARS!! And she is dying now. How much longer should this man wait?

 

And that was only up to page 9...

[Order & Chaos]

Jesus people let it go. You have derailed this thread and turned things into a bloodbath.

 

Stop the insults, name calling, and blame shifting. Act like freaking adults for once. Jeez, did your parents not ever teach you, if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all.

 

And to know a good number of you are raising children. Shameful.

[Mino]

I agree but due to wyld being the wife's caregiver, this isn't just about a man having an EA with another woman while his wife is slowly dying. I think if wyld was an outsider and had NOTHING to do with the caregiving, most wouldn't be this upset and find this situation wrong.

 

Ethically what she is doing is illegal and wrong, lawsuits are filed ALL the time about situations just like this one.

I have to agree... my stepmother had cancer...She was in bed for aout 2 years.. During this time, she decided that she wanted my father to remarry after her death. She went as far and approached a woman who was single. The two women made their agreement... He stayed by her side till the day she died....never once meeting the next wife. That all came weeks after the funeral.. I thought this was kind of wierd. But I hear this happens more often then we think. The dying wife meant well... wanted to know her husband would be taken care of, she knew he was a very weak man... The other woman turned out to be evil, they had a relationship for about a year, and he finally met someone on his own... I remember as she was dying, emotionally he could not even had an EA, to devistasted, phsysically, I am sure he payed for sex here and there... But I do find it creepy that the misstress is caring for the dying W... She should have resigned right away if she were to continue the R....thats like messing around with your best friends husband....bad

[NoIDidn't]

This situation, as described, is absolutely disgusting. No offense meant to the OP, but the situation stinks - regardless of what the dying, quadraplegic wife is alleged to have said.

 

I haven't read all of the posts, just some of them. But it would be helpful to the OP to actually heed the advice in most of them.

 

I have relatives that are lawyers, doctors, nurses, and surgeons (some by marriage) and even an *emotional* relationship with ANYONE in the family that the patient is part of is against the ethical code.

 

Regardless of love or true love, or whatever name *feelings* are going by these days, the OP needs to separate herself from this situation.

 

You have no idea of the fire that you are playing with. When this woman dies, if you are still in the picture and expecting to have a relationship with his son-in-law, you are likely to be in for a VERY UNPLEASANT surprise.

 

Grieving people are unpredictable and what they were fine with before may become completely unacceptable afterwards.

 

Remove yourself ASAP. Do not allow the H to contact you once you do. You may cause a lawsuit that can cause ALL of your co-workers to lose their jobs as well. They may be supportive now, but once their bread-and-butter is threatened, you will be the devil.

 

Please listen to the voice of reason in your head that I *know* is screaming at you, or you wouldn't have started this thread.

[pelicanpreacher]

WRONG! Read on.

 

 

 

 

 

But it is clear who introduced this idea very early on and read the thread if you wish.

 

 

 

Now I am done.

 

Please reread the exerpt of Owl's post 5 times if necessary because he made no assertion that Wyld was sleeping with the husband in that post. Herenow simply showed the same confusion many had until clarification of the relationship was established. Noforgiveness readily admits that she hadn't read all of the posts in this thread so she may be still operating under the same confusion assumed by others at the opening of this thread.

 

If you read luvmy2ns latest post and others you've submitted on the subject you might agree that you may have been instrumental in giving those who haven't read this thread carefully the errant notion that sex was involved. You are not to blame for that as it is everyone's responsibility to follow the thread on their own.

 

Now we're all done!

 

Thank you.

[Tomcat33]

Please reread the exerpt of Owl's post 5 times if necessary because he made no assertion that Wyld was sleeping with the husband in that post. Herenow simply showed the same confusion many had until clarification of the relationship was established. Noforgiveness readily admits that she hadn't read all of the posts in this thread so she may be still operating under the same confusion assumed by others at the opening of this thread.

 

 

 

I never said he did!?!? What are you even talking about?

Noforgiveness didn't read all the posts? Are you for real? She started with her "stuff" right on the first page, she ABSOLUTELY read all the posts, PLEASE!

 

Actually you please go back and read the posts 5 or 10 times if necessary because they were accusing ME of introducting the notion of the OP and the H having sex and it was NOT me. The only time I EVER talked about sex was to demonstrate that the man in question has not had a physically abeled wife for 5 yrs therefore he is also being deprived of sex and this was done to demonstrate a perspective that seems to be waaaay lost in all the condemnation and lynching happening here of what this man and woman are doing in terms of the emotional entanglement. SEX is just a symbol for not having a romantic relationship with his partner, intimacy is what I am really trying to convey FORGET "sex" and that notion or concept of the topic of sex as introduced by ME is totally independant to the fact of all the speculation on whether Wyld and this man are having sex. I NEVER once mixed the two up because I did not jump to any conclusiong given what the OP posted, she NEVER once spoke of being involved with the man sexually. If people cannot read the two seperate concepts, what can I say? I simply said that the man did not have sex because his W was incapacitated for 5 yrs. and therefore he has not had a proper marriage (sexually and affectionately speaking) for a long time. So to accuse me of mixing the notions up is just careless.

 

I have been trying to let this go but if you are going to keep coming back to accuse me of something I did not do I will retalliate.

 

If you read luvmy2ns latest post and others you've submitted on the subject you might agree that you may have been instrumental in giving those who haven't read this thread carefully....

 

Furthermore, Luvmy took parts of my posts and quoted them out of context and in reference to much of the same you are doing here, you are both mixing the concepts up so I again urge you to go back and read the thread and see how the conversation evolved rather than lazily looking at snippets brought back to continue on this vendetta against those that don't follow the herd mentality. So if she is going to do that then of course it is going to appear to be something it is not. If we are all adults and we can go back and read what is being posted then I invite you to ACTUALLY do that.

 

Funny because in one paragraph you talk about how we are all adults and have our own power to read and then in another paragraph you claim I am instrumental in the misunderstanding. SO which is it are we adults who can read and fend for our own inerpretations or are we easily derailled by not reading properly and only see what we want to see in order to form complete misconceptions?

 

Now we are done.

[NoIDidn't]

Wow, I just read some more of the responses and TC thinks its "punishment" because the W can't have sex with the man anymore?

 

He should be honored to spend her dying days with her. That's what marriage is about. I was once told that in a marriage the enjoyment of the good things is doubled, while the pain of the bad things is halved (having someone to share it all with).

 

Fidelity really doesn't depend on whether someone is able to perform sexually or not. I bet the very person (TC) on this thread would see things completely differently if she were the W that's so afflicted.

[Tomcat33]

Wow' date=' I just read some more of the responses and TC thinks its "punishment" because the W can't have sex with the man anymore?[/quote']

 

It IS punishment to be married to someone like the poor woman in this situation. But people endure it out of guilt out of love out of a sense of duty.

 

He should be honored to spend her dying days with her.

 

He should be "honoured" to spend his days dying next to a woman who is practically dead?!?! I think you should look up the meaning of honour. If there is any hounour ito be GIVEN it should be to the caregivers (H included) in this situation who are giving everything to make sure this woman has the best days possible in her last days.

 

 

Fidelity really doesn't depend on whether someone is able to perform sexually or not. I bet the very person (TC) on this thread would see things completely differently if she were the W that's so afflicted.

 

Yes it does depend on that. So if you are in a coma for 10 yrs you expect your H to basically stay faithful to you during that time? Wait don't answer that I know the answer.

 

Well go back and read the thread and see what my answer to that is if it were ME in the W's shoes.

[pelicanpreacher]

Well yes that I would agree with, she should be careful of that kind of stuff.

 

Any moral puritans piping in to cast their moral chastisings are really out of line though, I think. This is a personl MORAL choice. The woman is dying she is leaving this world the man is suffering is in pain is having a more than likely terrible time coping with the transition and is also abandoned in terms of losing a partner, both sexually and emotionally. He has found someone who is caring for him in a time where his care is going to the woman who is ill. I insisit it is a personal choice.

 

 

 

 

 

You make it sound like the two of them are having sex in the same room with the W watching the whole thing go down.

These are your own feelings of uneasiness but in terms of what they are doing the W doens't even know, and she IS going to die so why pevent this man from finding love again? How selfish can a person be?

 

 

 

She prob "backpeddled" because she is suffering enough as it is with her own feelings of being judged and guilt that she doesn't need strangers coming down on her too.

 

 

 

 

Again it is a personal moral choice, me personally if I became paralized from the waist down and was dying I would never deprive my husband from finding sexual happiness again. What kind of a selfish person castrates their partner and expects them to also lose their sexuality and emotion because they are dying. I couldn't do that to a man I loved.

I wouldn't want to punish him for my misfortune. I understand it is until death do you part but C'MON!

 

Would you expect your H sit by your side if you were paralized and you were NOT dying but could never have sex again, would you deprive your H of having sex with anoyone else ever again? Again it is personal choice and if that works between you and your partner the more power to you, I find that extremely selfish, I could not do that to a man I love but to each their own....

 

What are you god that you have exact dates and times? No. So let's not use examples as if we were playing god. My answer stays the same provided I am paralized and can no longer function as a sexual being my answer stays the same, one year two years, 2 months.

 

 

 

 

 

Fault me?!?!? It would be my life so you can't fault me for making my own choice. No need for that premable OWL.

 

Again you are making sound like the H and this woman are in the room fkcing infront of the ill woman. It's your own insecurities speaking as I am sure they are being respectful NOT to do anything to inconvenience the dying woman.

 

 

 

See above, it's a moral choice.

 

They are not fking infront of her face, if she has no clue then what's the problem here, other than your own personal insecurities speaking for this woman who more than likely has no clue?

 

 

 

They don't want to hide it from others since they plan on being together but they hide from the W.

 

And they are not having sex in front of her so what is the problem if they are falling in love where it doesn't affect her? They are both caring the best way possible for her and their "affair" is not depriving her of any sort of attention or care so what is the problem here? If you could give me one way this woman is being affected by this in a negative way OTHER than your assumptions that she knows and can sense what is happening, MAYBE I will be willing to see your side of things.

 

So let's have it, ONE negative thing that is affecting this woman?

 

Although you didn't come out and say they had sex, based upon how one interprets your posts, one might reasonably infer that they may be carrying on a discreet sexual liason out of the wife's line of sight. I only pointed out that it is up to each individual reading this thread to follow it closely enough to know for themselves the true status of Wyld's relationship with the dying woman's spouse. Even I had to reread the thread to be sure of the facts myself so I can, therefore, understand how someone else may have been confused as well.

 

Again...Chill.

[Tomcat33]

Although you didn't come out and say they had sex, based upon how one interprets your posts, one might reasonably infer that they may be carrying on a discreet sexual liason out of the wife's line of sight. I only pointed out that it is up to each individual reading this thread to follow it closely enough to know for themselves the true status of Wyld's relationship with the dying woman's spouse. Even I had to reread the thread to be sure of the facts myself so I can, therefore, understand how someone else may have been confused as well.

 

Again...Chill.

 

 

And you are free to misinterpret all you want but don't peg your misconceptions on me. If you speculate own up to it. Or ask the OP and clear your doubt.

 

All those posts you quoted me on are taken out of context but if you follow the conversation you will see EXACTLY what I mean. I am ending this conversation with you I am not interested in your witch hunt I know what I said and what I meant and I have already explained it in case there is still any form of doubt. End of story.

 

So you chill!

[Sks]

To the OP, what your doing is horrible, and disgusts me - not many things do that.

 

Wait till she dies off or something but you forcing his wife to watch you two together is sickening to me.

[pelicanpreacher]

And you are free to misinterpret all you want but don't peg your misconceptions on me. If you speculate own up to it. Or ask the OP and clear your doubt.

 

All those posts you quoted me on are taken out of context but if you follow the conversation you will see EXACTLY what I mean. I am ending this conversation with you I am not interested in your witch hunt I know what I said and what I meant and I have already explained it in case there is still any form of doubt. End of story.

 

So you chill!

 

I don't care what anybody says...Though you'll never admit when you're wrong, even upon pain of death, I still luv ya!