Trialbyfire Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 What about math a literature those are subjects that when taught together should teach a person how to think, science and engineering too. I'd consider persuit of knowledge in those areas to be very worthwhile. I won't dispute that the intent of school is to teach you to think, more than anything else. It's not necessary though. There are enough business owners who neither need, want or enjoy the cubbyhole experience of an under-grad or post-grad degree. Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Honestly.. if a degree is what was necessary to start/keep a business running then none of us would ever become business owners.. An entrepreneur's drive has little to do with a degree and is all about the drive to keep a business afloat those first few years.. The reason most business's fail is because an entrepreneur can just as easily drive his own company in the ground as it took him to get it off the ground.. Many entrepreneur's cannot run a business.. but they can start a business and put all the hard work and heartbreaking dedication into it to get it running... A smart entrepreneur starts his company and puts all the hard work and effort into it then hires people who can run it for him... My father was an entrepreneur.. My brother and I run the company he started. We have been doing it for more than 24 of the 30 years it has been around.. My father passed away in the 80's and we took over from where he left off.. We took it thru the computer era and have more than doubled our size and sales since the 80's. I do believe that neither my brother or I could have started this business and made it successful.. My dad the entrepreneur ran it for 5 years then he retired and let my brother and I run it for a year or so and then he passed away so the torch was passed. We were at my fathers side the whole time.. working for this company.. doing what was needed to make deadlines.. make payroll , setting up quality/control etc. etc.. Link to post Share on other sites
lovestruck818 Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 I have never needed a degree or resume to get one single "job" in my life. Sounds like you have a fear of working without a safety net. I understand that some people might need structure to feel safe and feel the need to work within the confines of structured system - much like college. Your degree worthy job could be lost in a moments notice as well. Employees don't have control of their own future in many cases. Very few have control over their own earning potential. How many employees with degree's lose their jobs because of big corp. downsizes? That is terrifying to me. well yes I could lose my job at anytime, I am fully aware of that, but b/c I have a college education, should that happen, I have a resume and plenty of other areas of expertise & knowledge to fall back on...things I would not have had I not elected to go to college. College is not for everyone I get that, but it is really an advantage to have it. Regardless of whether you have a degree or not, work for someone else or for yourself, there is always that risk of losing your job- it's inevitable, and yes, terrifying. If it happened to you though, would you have something else to fall back on? How easy would it be for you to get another job? Also when you say you never needed a resume to get a job in your life, what kind of "job" are you referring to?...b/c most jobs I would think you would need a resume for... Link to post Share on other sites
Author MaxManwell Posted June 4, 2008 Author Share Posted June 4, 2008 Honestly.. if a degree is what was necessary to start/keep a business running then none of us would ever become business owners.. An entrepreneur's drive has little to do with a degree and is all about the drive to keep a business afloat those first few years.. The reason most business's fail is because an entrepreneur can just as easily drive his own company in the ground as it took him to get it off the ground.. Many entrepreneur's cannot run a business.. but they can start a business and put all the hard work and heartbreaking dedication into it to get it running... A smart entrepreneur starts his company and puts all the hard work and effort into it then hires people who can run it for him... My father was an entrepreneur.. My brother and I run the company he started. We have been doing it for more than 24 of the 30 years it has been around.. My father passed away in the 80's and we took over from where he left off.. We took it thru the computer era and have more than doubled our size and sales since the 80's. I do believe that neither my brother or I could have started this business and made it successful.. My dad the entrepreneur ran it for 5 years then he retired and let my brother and I run it for a year or so and then he passed away so the torch was passed. We were at my fathers side the whole time.. working for this company.. doing what was needed to make deadlines.. make payroll , setting up quality/control etc. etc.. You are brainwashed. Link to post Share on other sites
lovestruck818 Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Honestly.. if a degree is what was necessary to start/keep a business running then none of us would ever become business owners.. An entrepreneur's drive has little to do with a degree and is all about the drive to keep a business afloat those first few years.. The reason most business's fail is because an entrepreneur can just as easily drive his own company in the ground as it took him to get it off the ground.. Many entrepreneur's cannot run a business.. but they can start a business and put all the hard work and heartbreaking dedication into it to get it running... A smart entrepreneur starts his company and puts all the hard work and effort into it then hires people who can run it for him... My father was an entrepreneur.. My brother and I run the company he started. We have been doing it for more than 24 of the 30 years it has been around.. My father passed away in the 80's and we took over from where he left off.. We took it thru the computer era and have more than doubled our size and sales since the 80's. I do believe that neither my brother or I could have started this business and made it successful.. My dad the entrepreneur ran it for 5 years then he retired and let my brother and I run it for a year or so and then he passed away so the torch was passed. We were at my fathers side the whole time.. working for this company.. doing what was needed to make deadlines.. make payroll , setting up quality/control etc. etc.. You are right, but as I said to Trialbyfire, there are things you could have learned in college that maybe you wouldn't have learned otherwise. I think there are many great business owners as well as many crappy ones...with or without degrees. On an unrelated yet maybe partially related note, I just bought a house not too long ago. My college offered a course in real estate. Had I not taken that class, the whole home-buying experience would have been a lot more terrifying & blind to me. There are courses one can take in college on how to start and run a successful business... Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 there is always that risk of losing your job- it's inevitable, Welcome to the real world.. nobody's job is safe... If I lost my job and this company I might start another one.. simple.. I'm too old to go back start going to college... I might take the money I have put away form all the years and retire.. My options are there.. you won't find me getting a corp job somewhere.. I don't have a resume and honestly my resume might not look too good being that this is the only job I have had ( unless you count cutting yards as a teen or painting houses during the summer). If I decided to not retire then I would take some of the money that I have and reinvest it into another business and I'll do it without a degree... Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 You are brainwashed. could you explain your comment ?.. How am I brainwashed ? Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 well yes I could lose my job at anytime, I am fully aware of that, but b/c I have a college education, should that happen, I have a resume and plenty of other areas of expertise & knowledge to fall back on...things I would not have had I not elected to go to college. College is not for everyone I get that, but it is really an advantage to have it. Regardless of whether you have a degree or not, work for someone else or for yourself, there is always that risk of losing your job- it's inevitable, and yes, terrifying. If it happened to you though, would you have something else to fall back on? How easy would it be for you to get another job? Also when you say you never needed a resume to get a job in your life, what kind of "job" are you referring to?...b/c most jobs I would think you would need a resume for... I could go to work tomorrow for just about any local company in my field. I do have 2 other businesses that I do part time..... so could also focus on those and have them grow. I could go back to construction/remodeling. (I have been turning down several jobs recently in this field) I used to own a paint company.... could go do that. Worst case scenario I would average $15 an hour. I know plenty of rich people that need their toilets scrubbed. I can go clean up at a turkey farm (**** picker) for $12 and hour Of course there is always the porn industry.... and crack sales. I certainly could get a reg. job at a big box store without a doubt or a service industry job. Link to post Share on other sites
lovestruck818 Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Welcome to the real world.. nobody's job is safe... If I lost my job and this company I might start another one.. simple.. I'm too old to go back start going to college... I might take the money I have put away form all the years and retire.. My options are there.. you won't find me getting a corp job somewhere.. I don't have a resume and honestly my resume might not look too good being that this is the only job I have had ( unless you count cutting yards as a teen or painting houses during the summer). If I decided to not retire then I would take some of the money that I have and reinvest it into another business and I'll do it without a degree... Personally I feel you are never too old to go back to school...never too old to learn something new, so-to-speak. My aunt was 55 years old when she went back. Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 You are brainwashed. I'm not under anyone's control other than my own.. My own reality is my reality... granted there are things out there I have never experienced with working.. but I can't do anything about that today.. I am who I am... Link to post Share on other sites
lovestruck818 Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 I could go to work tomorrow for just about any local company in my field. I do have 2 other businesses that I do part time..... so could also focus on those and have them grow. I could go back to construction/remodeling. (I have been turning down several jobs recently in this field) I used to own a paint company.... could go do that. Worst case scenario I would average $15 an hour. I know plenty of rich people that need their toilets scrubbed. I can go clean up at a turkey farm (**** picker) for $12 and hour Of course there is always the porn industry.... and crack sales. I certainly could get a reg. job at a big box store without a doubt or a service industry job. What if your part-time businesses don't grow? What if they plummet head-first to the ground? How stable is construction? I know it isn't very stable based upon what the guys I know that do it here say. Could be different where you are. $15/hr...if you had to go back to that, yeah, but...had you a degree, you wouldn't have to. Most people with degrees don't make $15/hr. They don't even start anywhere near that. It's much higher. Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 You are right, but as I said to Trialbyfire, there are things you could have learned in college that maybe you wouldn't have learned otherwise. I think there are many great business owners as well as many crappy ones...with or without degrees. On an unrelated yet maybe partially related note, I just bought a house not too long ago. My college offered a course in real estate. Had I not taken that class, the whole home-buying experience would have been a lot more terrifying & blind to me. There are courses one can take in college on how to start and run a successful business... See this is amazing to me. Take a course on buying a home. I can understand researching the local market, researching current loan options, looking into local property rights and taxes...... but to take a course? I also run a NPO.... no course, no lawyers involved in starting it - including that crappy application you have to fill out that is so much fun.... goodness and all that tax filing yearly and lic. and projected earnings..... I don't get it. But this is why maybe because of the way you are wired you believe that every other person is wired like you ,and needs a course to buy a home or start a business. Some of us don't. Link to post Share on other sites
lovestruck818 Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 See this is amazing to me. Take a course on buying a home. I can understand researching the local market, researching current loan options, looking into local property rights and taxes...... but to take a course? I also run a NPO.... no course, no lawyers involved in starting it - including that crappy application you have to fill out that is so much fun.... goodness and all that tax filing yearly and lic. and projected earnings..... I don't get it. But this is why maybe because of the way you are wired you believe that every other person is wired like you ,and needs a course to buy a home or start a business. Some of us don't. Do you own a home? If so, how old were you when you bought it? There are things you can learn from a course that you can't learn from books or on the internet. Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 What if your part-time businesses don't grow? What if they plummet head-first to the ground? How stable is construction? I know it isn't very stable based upon what the guys I know that do it here say. Could be different where you are. $15/hr...if you had to go back to that, yeah, but...had you a degree, you wouldn't have to. Most people with degrees don't make $15/hr. They don't even start anywhere near that. It's much higher. Construction is so good here I expect a check for 10 g's tomorrow. Here a MBA can earn you $34.50 per hour. I can go get on my tractor and bush hog a field for $50 an hour today. Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 $15/hr...if you had to go back to that, yeah, but...had you a degree, you wouldn't have to. Most people with degrees don't make $15/hr. They don't even start anywhere near that. It's much higher. One of the things as a business owner I have been able to accumulate is real estate... I have a couple of property companies that buy rental property and keep it rented.. including the same building I'm in now.. My one company ( the one that employs people ) pays rent to another company that I own that owns the real estate.. If this company fails then me not having a degree isn't going to have as much impact on me becuase owning a company gives me resources that I wouldn't normally have. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 If a business owner lacks certain skills or doesn't have the time to put towards everything, they can always hire the expertise. I don't bother doing my taxes. I use a CA to take care of those needs. If I need legal help, I contact my lawyer. Link to post Share on other sites
lovestruck818 Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Construction is so good here I expect a check for 10 g's tomorrow. Here a MBA can earn you $34.50 per hour. I can go get on my tractor and bush hog a field for $50 an hour today. and do you get a 401k, pension, benefits? Link to post Share on other sites
lovestruck818 Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 One of the things as a business owner I have been able to accumulate is real estate... I have a couple of property companies that buy rental property and keep it rented.. including the same building I'm in now.. My one company ( the one that employs people ) pays rent to another company that I own that owns the real estate.. If this company fails then me not having a degree isn't going to have as much impact on me becuase owning a company gives me resources that I wouldn't normally have. I'm very young but I own a home...much to do with my financial situation due to having the degree I have...and also to do with the relevent courses I took in college. Not to say uneducated people can't make money, they CAN, however had I not a degree, I don't think I would be 26 and owning a home right now...in New York of all places, which has insanely high prices real estate (and I don't mean upstate NY). Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Do you own a home? If so, how old were you when you bought it? There are things you can learn from a course that you can't learn from books or on the internet. Taking a course was a good thing for you.. Buying your first home can be tough if you don't know things or have the right people looking out for you.. I bought my first home when I was somewhere around 23-24.. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Do you own a home? If so, how old were you when you bought it? There are things you can learn from a course that you can't learn from books or on the internet.We're simply country folk...... I built my first home when I turned 26.... Bought my Mom's home at 32, and just finished building our new home.....I'm 40 and haven't taken one course....... But then again......I've stayed in COUNTLESS Holiday Inns..... Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Do you own a home? If so, how old were you when you bought it? There are things you can learn from a course that you can't learn from books or on the internet. 1st home I bought I was 23- 24 years old. Home 2 followed. sold 2 years bought again home 3 sold property bought to build - will sell likely without building. now with H in his home There are many things you can learn from real life... more so than in a course, a book, or on the internet. Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 and do you get a 401k, pension, benefits? no I don't get those benefits.... however I am stuffing money away for that rainy day.. including a couple real estate venture.... commerical land. Then again your "Enron" could happen to you.... or a big crash. Link to post Share on other sites
Author MaxManwell Posted June 4, 2008 Author Share Posted June 4, 2008 Old ppl trying to apply the situation when they were young to the situation now just doesn't work. Link to post Share on other sites
lovestruck818 Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 1st home I bought I was 23- 24 years old. Home 2 followed. sold 2 years bought again home 3 sold property bought to build - will sell likely without building. now with H in his home There are many things you can learn from real life... more so than in a course, a book, or on the internet. good for you...but, I am sure where you live housing prices are a lot lower. Not sure what that has to do with me taking a course or not, but houses here are very expensive. Most people in the NY metro area are not buying houses @ 26 years old. Too much for them to afford. Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 We're simply country folk...... I built my first home when I turned 26.... Bought my Mom's home at 32, and just finished building our new home.....I'm 40 and haven't taken one course....... But then again......I've stayed in COUNTLESS Holiday Inns..... gosh I stayed in one of those and the next day I was able to change the brake pads on my car!! I love H-Inns!! Link to post Share on other sites
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