mzd Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 Sorry I just posted that last post without reading the subsequent 14 pages...I understand that you're in a competitive industry but come on...using him as a job reference? That is just an excuse to keep in contact. Plus you're sending him mixed signals - 'Don't contact me, but be my positive reference'. Of course he will call after this, he thinks he is back in!!! Cut it all off now!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Author neverendingsaga Posted June 8, 2008 Author Share Posted June 8, 2008 thanks mzd for sharing your story, i know exactly what you mean about closure & about realizing its all about HIM, always. nothing changes & all he wants is MORE from me without giving me what he told me from the beg. he wanted- a relationship w/ just him and me. i dont even want that anymore, it is has been a long & hard road to realise that but im at the point where i just want to put him in my past & move on. again i cant get another good job like the one im in w/out using him as a job reference. i have other references but NONE who know my work & my experience as well as him. plus no one else knows im trying to leave or why. believe me if i had anyone else to go to or use that could help me get this job i would. ive been looking for another job for several months & hes been my only reference (and only person who knows im looking to leave) since then but b/c the markets so bad the recruiter FINALLY just notified me of this equal or better (actually its much better ) job. ive come to realise that as much as i wish i could totally stop talking to him, i cant. i do need him as a reference b/c he was my primary source of work for the two years ive been w/ this company. and even after i switched supervisors and tried to take on diff. areas of work, hes had me under his thumb & has maneuvered the work so that he is in charge of it. for instance one of my supervisors went to another company, magically XMM was in charge of all his old projects (and therefore in charge of me) etc. it is a never ending cycle and the only way i can i break it is to get a new job and the only way i can do that is to have limited contact w/ him enough to get his good recommendation and then leave. once im gone i will never speak to him again, there will be no reason to. but right now there is & ive realised theres no way around it. ive already told him in the past that our only contact can be about work & we have to keep it professional. of course he doesnt get that & tries to be "friends" but all i can do & all i do is ignore him & not reopen those flood gates. hes always trying to find a reason to get me to talk to him. like saying he has inside info. about this new job based on talking w/ the job interviewer, who he knows. well i dont want that info., i shouldnt have it & i never should have had info like that, it only came out of his attempts to further our relationship & keep me on a string. when he cursed me out & hung up on me its because i told him i apprecite the training he's given me & the job reference but we cannot talk about anything that comes out of the nature of a personal relationship, including confidential info hes not supposed to be sharing w/ me, or talking about anything beyond work. he hated that & told me im being ungrateful. the way he wants it to be is he keeps helping me w/ stuff IN RETURN for something from me. (one of the reasons i got mad on the phone & made him mad in return is that he was making sexual jokes, like 'how much is this recommendation worth to you? what will you give me to make it even better?' and i told him that is inappropriate & all i want from him is a fair reference based on all the work ive done for the past 2 years.') well i am not going to give him anything else anymore, not even friendship, and i still expect a fair reference (doesnt have to be 'glowing' as he claims his was) because i have worked very hard & done a very good job by his account & other ppl who report to him about the quality of my work. Link to post Share on other sites
Author neverendingsaga Posted June 8, 2008 Author Share Posted June 8, 2008 Be cool and never let'm see you sweat. Try to make copies of all voice mails he's left telling you that he left a glowing reference and try to really impress clients you do work for so they can be used as a lateral reference source. If this new job offer doesn't pan out then maybe you can provide copies of these voice mails along with direct references from clients you've established yourself with to enhance the opinion other potential employers have of you when new jobs open up. If he contradicts himself to others calling for references against his own endorsements along with the endorsements of direct clients then maybe this tactic can override his efforts to sabotage your efforts to get away from him! thanks pelican for the good advice as usual. and newsunrise. newsunrise i'd agree that he'd have to be stupid not to give me a good reference or play dirty w/ me, i have so much info on him that would take him down both professionaly & personally. but sometimes he is stupid, i mean he really doesnt think things through & he thinks he can do whatever he wants. so i wouldnt put it past him. pelican yesterday he called several more times & left me VMs saying he really needs to talk to me b/c his reputation is on the line & he told the guy of all this experience ive had & how much i know, so he needs to tell me what that is & what the guy's expectations of me are. i just dont get it, all i can guess is that if hes telling me the truth then he OVERstated my qualifications/ experience to the guy & now hes worried that if i dont talk to him first the guy will say 'have you done this?' and i'll be like, no not yet, & he'll look like a liar. well i dont want to talk to him b/c his reputation is not my responsibility, i mean if he DID exagerate my experience then thats on him. i never asked him to go overboard or make sure i get the job and i never would. all i wanted is for him to confirm that i have the experience & knowledge & qualifications that i told the guy i have in my interview (which was all the truth. i didnt overstate anything. if anything i may have understated b/c i tend to lack confidence in my own abilities untill someone ELSE points out how much i know or do etc.) or else it is just a big scheme to get me to call him back & he wants to tell me its a tougher job where i'll be expected to work even harder, which i already know based on my own conversations w/ the guy. its just so messed up, i mean i dont WANT to know anything i wouldnt otherwise know. like if i hadnt had a personal relationship w/ him he would have talked to the guy & then never told me what he said... maybe he would have said it went well or he thinks the guy likes me or whatever. so i dont WANT to know the content of the conversation, i just want to let the chips fall where they may. (theres no way to know if what XMM would tell me is the truth anyway as he is full of BS). if i get called back for a second interview i will know that he gave me a favorable recommendation. if not i will just have to wonder. Link to post Share on other sites
pelicanpreacher Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 Don't wonder! Again, blame is a game for children and old men (and lawyers:rolleyes:)! Proceed to Plan B which is maintaining yourself in a professional manner, doing your job to the best of your abilities, and networking yourself with co-workers, clients, friends, friends of friends, and etc.. Link to post Share on other sites
Author neverendingsaga Posted June 8, 2008 Author Share Posted June 8, 2008 Don't wonder! Again, blame is a game for children and old men (and lawyers:rolleyes:)! Proceed to Plan B which is maintaining yourself in a professional manner, doing your job to the best of your abilities, and networking yourself with co-workers, clients, friends, friends of friends, and etc.. thats good advice. if i dont get this job i will be stuck at the current one for awhile anyway so im just going to try to build relationships w/ other supervisors so i can use someone else as a reference for the next time i apply. maybe i will try to stop working for XMM altogether even though there will be consequences for that. im not sure which would be worse though, putting up w/ him while working for him or putting up w/ his childish tantrums by stopping working for him. Link to post Share on other sites
Author neverendingsaga Posted June 8, 2008 Author Share Posted June 8, 2008 Well i checked my work email & there was an email from the recruiter saying that the new job wants me to come back for a second interview, to meet more ppl & go to lunch. so that is great news. BNB, you were right i shouldnt have worried. i guess XMM DID give them a good recommendation of me. Link to post Share on other sites
NewSunrise Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 thats good advice. if i dont get this job i will be stuck at the current one for awhile anyway so im just going to try to build relationships w/ other supervisors so i can use someone else as a reference for the next time i apply. maybe i will try to stop working for XMM altogether even though there will be consequences for that. im not sure which would be worse though, putting up w/ him while working for him or putting up w/ his childish tantrums by stopping working for him. Yep. Pretty much until you're out of there. But like pelican said, do handle him professionally. Keep in mind as you exit the A, his control over you will likely increase as he gets desperate in keeping you closer. I suggest the next time you apply for another job. Include the following: "References available upon request" As an after thought, I'm surprised you even provided the information (XMM) knowing full well that you are still currently employed. This is a NO-NO!!! What you should've done (next time) is tell your prospective employer that your current employer DOES NOT know you are applying. Tell them that you love your job there and the people you work for, and they do not know you are looking for a job and would prefer that they not know until there is a job offer; and at that point you would like to be the one to let them know. AND, they can also call to verify if needed. At this point, your length of your current employment of 2+ years speak for itself. This is where you SELL your skills. Show them what you've done and the results of your finished products. Also, since you work with different supervisors, for heavens sake, say so. You work with different supervisors depending on the projects. Emphasize your strengths on the projects you've done well and how they will enhance your prospective employer. Show them what you've done. If they ask you why you're looking for a job with them? If you've done your homework right, and find that there is something in the new employer you like, emphasize those items and let them know that you seeking an employment with them is a "lateral move" that will complement you and the company. If your job entails production and design, what you've accomplished for the current employer in the eyes of a prospective employer are proofs you are what they want and need, especially when they know you're coming from a competitor, if this is the case. Link to post Share on other sites
Author neverendingsaga Posted June 9, 2008 Author Share Posted June 9, 2008 Yep. Pretty much until you're out of there. But like pelican said, do handle him professionally. Keep in mind as you exit the A, his control over you will likely increase as he gets desperate in keeping you closer. I suggest the next time you apply for another job. Include the following: "References available upon request" As an after thought, I'm surprised you even provided the information (XMM) knowing full well that you are still currently employed. This is a NO-NO!!! What you should've done (next time) is tell your prospective employer that your current employer DOES NOT know you are applying. Tell them that you love your job there and the people you work for, and they do not know you are looking for a job and would prefer that they not know until there is a job offer; and at that point you would like to be the one to let them know. AND, they can also call to verify if needed. At this point, your length of your current employment of 2+ years speak for itself. This is where you SELL your skills. Show them what you've done and the results of your finished products. Also, since you work with different supervisors, for heavens sake, say so. You work with different supervisors depending on the projects. Emphasize your strengths on the projects you've done well and how they will enhance your prospective employer. Show them what you've done. If they ask you why you're looking for a job with them? If you've done your homework right, and find that there is something in the new employer you like, emphasize those items and let them know that you seeking an employment with them is a "lateral move" that will complement you and the company. If your job entails production and design, what you've accomplished for the current employer in the eyes of a prospective employer are proofs you are what they want and need, especially when they know you're coming from a competitor, if this is the case. i did do that newsunrise. that's how its done standard in my industry. you have the recruiter let the new job know you are interested in confidence. it is common & they know you prolly havent announced to your current job that your looking for a better opportunity. so i didnt give them references at first. during your first interview if they like you they will ask to talk to someone who knows your work well& they tell you they will only contact that person for now. and thats what this guy did. so it was all standard procedure. so no worries i didnt do a no-no. i apprecite the advice but the one thing i DO know is how to get a better job, b/c ppl are always coming to my company from not as good ones & leaving my company for better ones. plus i have the headhunter to advise me on that. so im not in need of as much advice there as how to stay as far away from XMM as possible while i still work at this job. Link to post Share on other sites
NewSunrise Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 i did do that newsunrise. that's how its done standard in my industry. you have the recruiter let the new job know you are interested in confidence. it is common & they know you prolly havent announced to your current job that your looking for a better opportunity. so i didnt give them references at first. during your first interview if they like you they will ask to talk to someone who knows your work well& they tell you they will only contact that person for now. and thats what this guy did. so it was all standard procedure. so no worries i didnt do a no-no. i apprecite the advice but the one thing i DO know is how to get a better job, b/c ppl are always coming to my company from not as good ones & leaving my company for better ones. plus i have the headhunter to advise me on that. so im not in need of as much advice there as how to stay as far away from XMM as possible while i still work at this job. Perfecto! Looks lik you got the job. They wouldn't bother asking you out and charge expense to their "meal and entertainment account, unless of course that's standard industry procedure. It's a congratulatory/introductory luncheon. Link to post Share on other sites
pelicanpreacher Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Excellent! Now prepare to transistion yourself with minimal drama. And when you walk through the doors of your new job and a MM gives you a second look DO NOT BAT YOUR EYES! Link to post Share on other sites
Author neverendingsaga Posted June 9, 2008 Author Share Posted June 9, 2008 thanks guys! no worries ive DEF. learned my lesson & will no longer EVER involve myself w/ a MM no matter WHAT he says. i will tell him drop dead, i deserve better & so does his W. Link to post Share on other sites
NewSunrise Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 thanks guys! no worries ive DEF. learned my lesson & will no longer EVER involve myself w/ a MM no matter WHAT he says. i will tell him drop dead, i deserve better & so does his W. Well, NES, you finally got your wish. In one of your posts, remember you said you wished you had the strength? You always had it. Former First Lady, Nancy Reagan was once quoted for saying, "A woman is like a bag of tea. She never knows her strength until she's poured in hot water." Unfortunately, many OPs, WS/BS are unable to find the strength to walk away from an otherwise toxic relationships. Link to post Share on other sites
kellykellykelly Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Sorry I haven't posted much, but I've been keeping up with you. So, did you get the job?! Link to post Share on other sites
Author neverendingsaga Posted June 10, 2008 Author Share Posted June 10, 2008 Sorry I haven't posted much, but I've been keeping up with you. So, did you get the job?! awww thanks for asking, i dont know yet. i have a 2nd interview next week so thinks are lookin good! Link to post Share on other sites
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