rainfall Posted April 3, 2007 Posted April 3, 2007 Going to a strip club does not mean you desire these women. Unless you go for that purpose (which I don't nor does anyone I know does). If your SO is going there for that reason then good chance he's trying to hook up with chicks at other places as well. If you say you never flirted with another guy and you are telling the truth then you are a rare one. To me flirting is any sort of behavior that arouses interested from the other person, it doesn't even need to be sexual. As for the women turning them on.. As far as I know most men don't. Ever think some of them go because they aren't getting the affection/attention from their spouse? Well what exactly do you go to a strip club for? I really have no need to arouse the interest of any man besides my bf. He is the only man I want to be with so why do I care if any other guy is interested in me? Maybe they do go there because they aren't getting enough from their SO. I couldn't tell you. I just know that if my bf ever did decide to go to a strip club it wouldn't be because he doesn't get enough attention/affection from me.
VinaAmez Posted April 3, 2007 Posted April 3, 2007 Well...dancing is one thing..if she was just dancing...I wouldn't have probably cared....simulating sex and acting like she is being f#cked by another guy on the dancefloor...totally unacceptable. Still unacceptable no matter what. Well....okay maybe it would depend on a couple of things. But still he's mine and I don't share. Oh that sounds evil.
Salicious Crumb Posted April 3, 2007 Posted April 3, 2007 Still unacceptable no matter what. Well....okay maybe it would depend on a couple of things. But still he's mine and I don't share. Oh that sounds evil. No its not evil. Other women can look...maybe even dance with your man...but no touching. My gf at the time wanted to touch and be touched on the dancefloor...so I basically let her know she can shi!t and fall back in it.
Salicious Crumb Posted April 3, 2007 Posted April 3, 2007 I gotta tell you this, I have been with guys who frequented strip clubs, they did what they wanted and it did not bother me. Mostly because I could give a rip about them. If I don't care about the partner that much - I don't care what they do either. EXACTLY...well said....maybe jmargel could care less about his woman and vice versa.
Wantingtogetitright Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 let me precede this by saying I have very very strong opinions on this and recently went through my partner attending a strip club fir a "boys night out", so may not be as level in my advice as some others on here. I am also not very liberal if at all when it comes to this sort of thing. My belief is that ANYTHING sexual be it a stripper, a lap dance or a simple flirtation is a NO GO as far as I am concerned. Anything with sexual innuendo, overtones etc is purely and solely between the 2 people in the relationship and noone else. I didn't see attending a strip club as cheating (although some do) and my issues when my partner said he was going to a "boys night out" were not to do with lack of trust, I saw it as totally inappropriate behaviour for someone in a committed relationship. My belief was that noone with a significant other should be going to places where people deliberately take their clothes off in a sexual manner. Yes we see unclad people on a beach etc but it is not their intention to be overtly sexual or is it the intention of the partner to go to the beach purely to see a woman get her kit off and play with her bits etc. Attending such an establishment was direspectful to me and our relatinship. Fortunately my partner now sees where I am coming from on this. He had only been to these clubs on a handful of occasions in his life for boys nights etc and never when he was in a relationship. I guess as I said in my earlier post it was a good thing in a way that he went so he could totally see where I was coming from and how he felt about being there. The thing I was most upset about was that my thoughts and feelings on the matter weren't enough to prevent him from going regardless of whether he agreed or understood. But the upside is he has learnt from this so all good. The rule I live by and have drummed into my partner is. Would you do that, say that, type that etc if I was standing next to you. If the answer is no then it is wrong. I have been to strip clubs and have taken people along - however I was single at the time and so were the guys that I took with me (had some visitors from overseas and they wanted a boys night out and I simply ended up tagging along). I know hat they are like, I know what goes on in them so my opinions etc are not based on ignorance or wild ideas made up in my head etc. The thing that came out of the whole experience with my partner was he didn't see anything wrong with going, he had been both single and in a relationship on the occasions he had been in the past. However what he felt this time was different. His G/F at the time didn't mind that he went, he knew it was no different this time that he would simply have dinner, a few beers, watch the girls and be with the boys etc no lapdances/private dances etc as he figured that was crossing the line. I was however very against it and told him all of the above. What he has figured out this time is that the previous g/f didn't care enough about him not to be bothered by it. And by going and seeing these other chicks making sexual advances which is what stripping basically is when he was in love with someone else just simply felt wrong. So he left. Basically to jmargel etc if you choose to live this liberal lifestye and your partner is just as liberal as you then I pity you. You are missing out on what total, commitment, fidelity and "forsaking all others" feels like and the wonderful experience of what "true, deep and soulful love" is.
jmargel Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 EXACTLY...well said....maybe jmargel could care less about his woman and vice versa Excuse me, but unlike you I am not a controlling prick who is threatened by something like what your EX gf did. I love my wife very much and just because we trust each other in a dance club to allow each other to dance with other people does NOT mean we care or love each other less. It means the opposite. Dry ****ing.. lol That's a new term. Is that something like a dog humping your leg? Goto any dance club this weekend and you'll see people dancing very close to each other. That's what it is all about. It's not simulating sex at all. So what he held her close. You didn't see him kissing her or rubbing her chest with his hands, etc.. By your last post and how upset and how you try to lash out at me it shows your immaturity. The people backing you up on here had SOs cheat and they can only assume that it was the 'environment' that caused this. Yea right. Ever think you might not have been giving everything you could have in the relationship? Of course not, because it's too easy to blame the failed relationship on the other person. It's too convient to take the easy way out and just label her a 'whore' and think you have done nothing wrong. That's all find and dandy but when your next relationship comes around you are doomed to repeat your same mistakes because you can't acknowledge that all of you in your failed relationships are somewhat to blame. I know I am when it came to my ex. Even though she cheated, I was still to blame on the way I treated her at times. On one hand you say...she wasn't doing it to hurt me and wasn't going to cheat on me...then in another breath think that she went looking for him when I left.....you contradicted yourself. Wrong. She probably found the other guy much more attractive after you scorned her because he was letting her be herself. Women love confidence and you showed the complete opposite. To actually break up with someone just because they danced with someone on the dance floor (even if it was dry ****ing) as you called it, IMO is out of line. Understandable to be upset if you don't like such things but to actually end it, without other problems in the relationship really just shows you what issues YOU need to work on.
jmargel Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Basically to jmargel etc if you choose to live this liberal lifestye and your partner is just as liberal as you then I pity you. You are missing out on what total, commitment, fidelity and "forsaking all others" feels like and the wonderful experience of what "true, deep and soulful love" is. Wrong.. when you have enough trust, love and care in a relationship having a 'liberal' lifestyle as you say, is the complete opposite of what you just wrote. Don't feel pity for me. It's a great feeling to know that my wife trusts me enough to go out with female friends and know I won't cheat. That is what total commitment is.. To allow your SO to make their own choices and to know in the end he will only do her right. What you are trying to do is trying to be overly protective of your relationships in trying to prevent your SO from 'going a stray'. Thing is, that won't work. It's like trying to keep an alcoholic from drinking. You can't keep them away from the booze all their life. At some point you have to trust them and give them the FREEDOM to choose. Wouldn't you feel much better about your relationship if your SO chooses from their own free will not to cheat and to not do anything disruptive to the relationship than by you trying to keep them away from these so called "harmful" things?
a4a Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Hey JM maybe the outside "entertainment" is needed or desired in your R, but quite a few people don't want it that way.... I don't understand why you are beating on SC for dumping his GF when she showed signs of not being desirable R material to him. Why tell him his values are wrong? As for dumping her...... better to do so when you realize this is not the type of person you desire...... nothing wrong with that either. This boils down to different values and throwing rocks will not change another persons values. The best remedy is to not get into a relationship with a person with different values. SC was not controlling this woman, he controlled himself by making a choice that she was NOT what he wanted. He did not threaten her, he walked. She did what she wanted, he did what he wanted.
jmargel Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Like I said.. to each their own. I wouldn't ditch someone I am dating just because she was out on the dancefloor having a good time. To breakup a relationship over something that petty.. is just immature. Outside entertainment is not 'needed' in my relationship. Just because I goto a strip club now & then and dance with some girls now & then at a dance club does not make me a cheater. You guys are putting a wrong label on SCs and Dance clubs and what goes on in them, IMO.
Salicious Crumb Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Excuse me, but unlike you I am not a controlling prick who is threatened by something like what your EX gf did. LOL...nice try cake boy. If I was controlling...I would have stayed with her and made her stay at home....I just simply broke it off with her. You can put the dunce cap on now. I love my wife very much Uh huh...ya sure you do. Funny way of showing it. and just because we trust each other in a dance club to allow each other to dance with other people does NOT mean we care or love each other less. It means the opposite. And again you have your head up your arse....dancing is one thing..dry f#cking someone else is completely another. If you can't see the difference...then lets apply a little epoxy to that dunce cap. Dry ****ing.. lol That's a new term. To you. Is that something like a dog humping your leg? Goto any dance club this weekend and you'll see people dancing very close to each other. That's what it is all about. sorry...what you are talking about and what I'm talking about are two different things...of course people dance close when dancing...thats not the problem....again...dry f#cking is. It's not simulating sex at all. You didn't see what I saw and you don't know what you are talking about. So what he held her close. Uh no...it wasn't just holding close...it was turning her around...grabbing her by the hips and acting like he was f#cking her and she was bent over. there is a big difference there....you have blinders on man. By your last post and how upset and how you try to lash out at me it shows your immaturity. The people backing you up on here had SOs cheat and they can only assume that it was the 'environment' that caused this. Yea right. I never said it was the environment that caused cheating...it is just more condusive to it. I saw in her that she was not trustworthy....so I ended it. What is controlling about ending a relationship with someone? Oh..I see...I am suppose to take whatever disrespect comes my way eh?...sorry dude.....will never happen. Ever think you might not have been giving everything you could have in the relationship? Ah yes...here we go again....break your back to stave off cheating. I don't get everything I want in a relationship...but do I ever cheat?....no. Of course not, because it's too easy to blame the failed relationship on the other person. It's too convient to take the easy way out and just label her a 'whore' and think you have done nothing wrong. there was no cheating involved with this person that I am referring to. I saw that she was capable...so I broke it off before I found out the hard way. I know I am when it came to my ex. Even though she cheated, I was still to blame on the way I treated her at times. Well if you were an abusive prick or something like that...well I can understand....nothing here is the case however. And if your ex didn't like you...why cheat?..why not just break it off? Wrong. She probably found the other guy much more attractive after you scorned her because he was letting her be herself. Women love confidence and you showed the complete opposite. Nope..I let her know I wan't going to take any of her crap no matter if she thinks she is hot or not. Unlike you...I don't think with my dick. and if she found that other guy more attractive....no problem...because after that I didn't want her anyway...and she shouldn't have chased me out into the street begging if she truly thought she didn't do anything wrong. To actually break up with someone just because they danced with someone on the dance floor (even if it was dry ****ing) as you called it, IMO is out of line. I don't have the right to break up with someone when I can plainly see that it isn't going to work? What is this, old communist Russia? I have to stay with someone no matter how much I don't like what they do? Understandable to be upset if you don't like such things but to actually end it, without other problems in the relationship really just shows you what issues YOU need to work on. Uh..the issue is, in my experience...nobody that acted the way she did is very trustworthy...I wasn't going to put up with it...and I ended it....too bad. Was this your sister or something?...Why do you care if I dumped her or not?
Salicious Crumb Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Like I said.. to each their own. I wouldn't ditch someone I am dating just because she was out on the dancefloor having a good time. A good time is one thing...I dont' have a problem with simply dancing, laughing, etc.....but girl getting her rocks off with another man is a different story. You still don't get it do you...the only thing separating what they were doing from having sex, was clothing. Outside entertainment is not 'needed' in my relationship. Obviously it is. Just because I goto a strip club now & then and dance with some girls now & then at a dance club does not make me a cheater. The act of going to a strip club doesn't make you a cheater and you really are not cheating...but it shows that given the right conditions...you would cheat....sorry man...you are just the type.
a4a Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Like I said.. to each their own. I wouldn't ditch someone I am dating just because she was out on the dancefloor having a good time. To breakup a relationship over something that petty.. is just immature. Outside entertainment is not 'needed' in my relationship. Just because I goto a strip club now & then and dance with some girls now & then at a dance club does not make me a cheater. You guys are putting a wrong label on SCs and Dance clubs and what goes on in them, IMO. :lmao: JM did you not read my post that I worked behind the bar at one of these for a friend that owned one, as a fill in while his wife was out with illness....... I do know exactly what goes on. I talked to the guys at the bar with my clothing on. The money was great, but no way could I stay in that atmosphere. How many guys go in there alone..... many many many.... that is not for a bonding experience with their buddies. (well unless their buddy was hiding in their pants) Outside entertainment is desired in your relationship...... you may not need it but you do desire it.
Carbine Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Why are you so hostile? When I talked to her (I live in PA) she worked for the AT&T in Harrisburg, and drove about 20 miles north to a club to dance. She mentioned that she couldn't dance down there and would lose her job if she did. She just likes the atmosphere and the girls are close friends of hers. People in this world like different things, you know.. I'm hostile because I'm sick and tired of every man and his dog trying to convince me how f**king wonderful strippers are and how I should force myself to love and respect them for my own apparent good. I'm hostile because of the fact that these people are loaded with cash from doing nothing but showing a bit of flesh, whereas someone like me has to work ten times harder to earn ten times less what they earn, simply because I'm not as good looking as they are. Worst of all, my hostility (related to that last post) stems from my utter disbelief that even someone like you who, seems intelligent and cluey, can be sucked in by such obvious lies, as long as the lies are coming from a pretty mouth on a pretty face. I mean, of course she's going to tell you some smooth story to avoid having to admit what here real life is like. But believe what you want... Wrong.. 99% of them do it for the money. There's alot of it and it comes very fast. They could careless if they give a lap dance to a single man or a married one. A dollar is a dollar. It might inflate their egos when they first start stripping but after awhile the novelty wears off. They just want to make their money and go home. I'm not saying the money has nothing to do with it - obviously it's a pretty damn good incentive! But speaking from a female POV, I also think that the massive ego-trip is also a major perk of the job. Wrong. I know guys that love BBWs. In fact the strip club I was at, had a night where only BBWs were allowed to dance. Apparently there must have been a large enough want from it for them to dedicate a night for it.These women are not perfect. Alot of it is the lighting. If you really look close you can still see the stretch marks, etc.. on them. They are hardly the playboy model types. I know that it's horses for courses, but do you seriously think that the majority of guys would chose paying to perve at BBW's over the sorts of women I previously described?? And lighting-schmiting! You could stick me in a bikini at a SC, give me all the professional lighting in the world and I'd still get laughed and booed off stage by the audience! . A typical stripper mightn't be as good as a playboy model, but most of them are a damnsight better than the average woman. If your guy is going to get involved in heavy drinking or drugs then that is a whole seperate problem there. The club doesn't encourage patrons to behave in a certain way. In fact if a patron starts touching the girls they are escorted out very fast. It's a very controlled environment and when you walk in you can feel the aura of it. It's not like some biker bar where guys are swinging off the light fixtures and smashing bottles everywhere, gang-banging the girls. I'm aware of the rules governing behaviour at these places. And I do believe that any dodgy behaviour (i.e. patrons who are excessively drunk, caught taking drugs, or touching) would be booted out. However, there are still limits to 'acceptable' behaviour. For example, I was told by my ex in regards to the infamous lapdance/cheating situation, that he and his idiot friends got blind drunk and also had a couple of lines of coke (and god knows what else) in their hotel room before they went off to the SC's. They may have been ridiculously drunk and off their heads, but they were still let in by the bouncers. And look what happened . I'm sure they're not the only men to do this either. IMO the reason why a person cheats is a number of issues. First and foremost is the break down in communication between the spouses, the second is the maturity of the person who cheated, third certain drugs/alcohol could play a part however the person is still responsible for their decisions. If he was not satisifed with your body, this was a maturity issue on his end. For him to do this because of just your body size shows you that he has not grown as a man. Him not showing you the respect you deserve is based on his immaturity and good chance before he has an 'awakening' he will continue to do this to others [...] Basically if a guy goes to a strip club and cheats, he will cheat on you anywhere. Him trying to blame it on anything is just him not taking responsibilty for his actions. I see what you're saying, but I disagree with some of it. Firstly, re the body-preference thing, are you saying to a degree that men who prefer leaner, 'sexier' bodies are by default immature? Secondly, I don't think it's a matter of trying to place the blame for his 'cheating'. I do however feel strongly that its the SC 'culture' and the general social acceptance/attitude towards SCs that accounts for what he did. Let me reiterate: he's not the sort of man who will go out and cheat with a random girl. He simply would not do that. He knows like most people that if he went out and got intimate with some girl he met at a party for example, that's "cheating" and in his mind that's wrong. In contrast, his receiving a lapdance at a SC on that stupid boys' weekend is not considered by him to be "cheating" because 1) simply, it occured at a strip club and 2) receiving a lapdance, even when in a relationship, is a generally accepted phenomenon in this day and age. Because you are going after him. Nothing you do to him will erase the pain he has caused you. Unfortunetly in life we all have felt this pain. You can either do two things here. 1) Try to make his life miserable and continue to be in pain yourself. Or 2) Fix what you want to fix within' yourself, set short term goals and accomplish these and start doing things in life to make yourself happier, and to love yourself more. I think the latter will get you alot further in life and overall make you enjoy life more. Well, I'm not "going after him" to kill him, am I?? (In which cause your immense concern would be justified). I'm pursuing a relationship with him because I love him and I want us both to be happy together. Anyway, thanks for the advice...
VinaAmez Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Makes you wonder how majority of the male herd would feel if outside entertainment wasn't available. Wow that would be a sight. Still trying to figure out why anyone cares why SC dumped that girl. His choice. And what may not be a reason to for someone, could be for someone else. If anything's immature, it's debating why he did and him having to explain it over and over again. Outside entertainment is not 'needed' in my relationship. Just because I goto a strip club now & then and dance with some girls now & then at a dance club does not make me a cheater. Carefull now... If that works in your relationship and both sides agree and are free to do the exact same thing then okay. BUT what may work for you doesn't work for someone else and there is nothing wrong with that.
Salicious Crumb Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Carefull now... If that works in your relationship and both sides agree and are free to do the exact same thing then okay. BUT what may work for you doesn't work for someone else and there is nothing wrong with that. Exactly!!!!
GreenEyedLady Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 I'm hostile because I'm sick and tired of every man and his dog trying to convince me how f**king wonderful strippers are and how I should force myself to love and respect them for my own apparent good. I'm hostile because of the fact that these people are loaded with cash from doing nothing but showing a bit of flesh, whereas someone like me has to work ten times harder to earn ten times less what they earn, simply because I'm not as good looking as they are. I'm pursuing a relationship with him because I love him and I want us both to be happy together. Carbine, first off, not ALL men love strippers and strip clubs...if you are so against them, it seems like you should find a partner who shares your views...you can't change someone else's views, the same way they can't change yours... Your hostility really stems from jealousy and insecurity...why else would you care if strippers make more money than you? They have such a disgusting job, right? What should matter is that you like yourself and have a career that you enjoy...who cares if anyone makes more money than you...and if you feel so bad about your body, then there's lots of things you can do to improve it... Mostly Carbine, I really don't understand why you expend such energy on this subject...if it's a dealbreaker, it's a dealbreaker...you're entitled to your views...find someone who is compatible with you...and then you'll be much happier...
jmargel Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 It's not about the girl at all. It's his attitude and others on here that dancing with another at a club or going to strip club is considered cheating. It's not. Try all you want, but you won't convince me otherwise. SC when you start throwing insults it just makes your agrument that much more pathetic. Trying to tell me that I don't love my wife or vice-versa because we don't follow 'your way of life' just shows how immature and stubborn you are. If you were to go talk to some swingers, these are couples that have the utmost trust in their partners. Though I am not one, the ones I have talked to have a strong enough bond and trust that can withstand any jealously. Jealously does not equal love. there was no cheating involved with this person that I am referring to. I saw that she was capable...so I broke it off before I found out the hard way Hey sparky.. Everyone has the capability of cheating. Wow.. there's a news flash. The next chick you start dating has the same capability as the one you let go. Unless of course you wish to lock her in solidary confinement. There's a number of you on here that seem so threatened by these environments. This is not an issue with them, but within' yourselves. However you are not at the point yet to realize this. Perhaps in time you will. I'm not going to quote and reply to every single comment you made, since my post would probably be 2 pages long. However I will reply to some of them: I'm hostile because I'm sick and tired of every man and his dog trying to convince me how f**king wonderful strippers are and how I should force myself to love and respect them for my own apparent good Never said they were wonderful, however they are just like you and I. Never said you had to love them, but yes respect them as a person. They are not some evil person that is salvating and waiting to take your man. They are there to make money. I'm hostile because of the fact that these people are loaded with cash from doing nothing but showing a bit of flesh, whereas someone like me has to work ten times harder to earn ten times less what they earn, simply because I'm not as good looking as they are. So blame them because they are good looking? Boo-hoo. Get over it. God gave them a gift of beauty, I say if they wish to show it off, more power to them. God blessed you with certain gifts do you see them crying or being hostile towards you because they don't have what you do? Worst of all, my hostility (related to that last post) stems from my utter disbelief that even someone like you who, seems intelligent and cluey, can be sucked in by such obvious lies, as long as the lies are coming from a pretty mouth on a pretty face. I mean, of course she's going to tell you some smooth story to avoid having to admit what here real life is like. But believe what you want... Hun, I'm pretty well aware that a pretty face doesn't make a beautiful heart. None of them 'smoozed' me into anything. I go now and then to watch them dance, because they are very good dancers. However I would have no problem with having a stripper as a friend, not because she has a nice body but because of who she is. Her job does not define her. You are basically equating a stripper as a bad, sinful person. I'm not saying the money has nothing to do with it - obviously it's a pretty damn good incentive! But speaking from a female POV, I also think that the massive ego-trip is also a major perk of the job. Like I said, at first they would get an ego stroke but over time it's just the same old, same old. Funny when the times I was at the strip club those dancers just LOVED the regular girls that came in. They got more attention then what the guys did. He knows like most people that if he went out and got intimate with some girl he met at a party for example, that's "cheating" and in his mind that's wrong. In contrast, his receiving a lapdance at a SC on that stupid boys' weekend is not considered by him to be "cheating" because 1) simply, it occured at a strip club and 2) receiving a lapdance, even when in a relationship, is a generally accepted phenomenon in this day and age. That's where some of the difference lies. There is no intimacy between a customer and a dancer. Sure she might give him a lap dance but she really doesn't desire him and he knows that the only reason why he's getting the dance is because of the money. If the customer actually thinks she really "wants" him then as they say a fool and his money are soon parted. To these girls it's an act they do. If that works in your relationship and both sides agree and are free to do the exact same thing then okay. BUT what may work for you doesn't work for someone else and there is nothing wrong with that. I agree 100%, but what I don't agree is people here stereotyping or labeling strippers as 'whores' or women that are out to 'steal their man'. What I also don't agree with is the attitude of dancing like what his ex did as cheating. It wasn't even the dancing part that bothered me, it was his quick reaction to dump her just because she did something he didn't like. IMO if he continues that type of behavior he will live a very lonely life. No one is going to want to be with you that has to live by such strict guidelines and who feels they are walking on eggshells. Seems to me that SC has a problem with the way I view things. Which is fine, but when you try to insult my love for my wife you are going too far. Try to keep the personal attacks out of this.
Salicious Crumb Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 It's not about the girl at all. It's his attitude and others on here that dancing with another at a club or going to strip club is considered cheating. It's not. Try all you want, but you won't convince me otherwise. Oh I know I won't convince you. You are talking about dancing..I am talking about disrespectful touching...there is a difference and you don't see it....but thats ok. SC when you start throwing insults it just makes your agrument that much more pathetic. And your insults make you look real good I suppose? Trying to tell me that I don't love my wife or vice-versa because we don't follow 'your way of life' just shows how immature and stubborn you are. Well I will admit that I don't know you and I will apologize for saying you must not love your wife...I just can't imagine getting my rocks of with another woman if I loved my wife...but thats just me. If you were to go talk to some swingers, these are couples that have the utmost trust in their partners. Though I am not one, the ones I have talked to have a strong enough bond and trust that can withstand any jealously. Jealously does not equal love. Well of course they are fine with everything...because both of them want to f#ck other people and can ignore what their partner does as long as they get theirs. Hey sparky.. Everyone has the capability of cheating. Well yall can speak for yourself there. I have never cheated...never will. Seems to me that SC has a problem with the way I view things. Which is fine, but when you try to insult my love for my wife you are going too far. Try to keep the personal attacks out of this. And like I said before...I do apologize for that. You made some personal attacks too however. But do I care?...nah...shi!t wipes off. Bottom line...if you don't mind your wife rubbing her ass or crotch on another man's di!ck...and vice versa with you...then hey...good for you...like you said...to each their own. I on the other hand will not tolerate being disrespected and a gf to allow another man to touch her in an inappropriate way. She wants other men to touch her that way...then they can have her.
Carbine Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Because they seem to have the wrong idea of exactly what goes on there. At least the club I visit now & then is very classy. Their are some women on this board that are accusing their SO of cheating when they haven't fully explored the environment itself. They are making a huge accusation on something that is not true and the only way for them to get this whole truth is for them to visit the place themselves. "They" are not a bunch of unenlightened, hysterical ignoramuses who run around pointing the finger out of ignorance. Despite what you think, I'm pretty certain that most of the women you refer to, including myself, are very damn well informed as to what goes on at these places. I do not need to "explore the environment" to further my learning on the subject, thank-you VERY much!!! . As far as I'm concerned: My man + Semi-naked/naked attractive women X close proximity to each other = ALARM BELLS!!!!!!!! I took my one friend to one about 2 months ago. She kinda had the same feeling about those places and wanted to see what it was like because she had an ex goto one. When she got there is found the place alot less intimidating then she expected and she even told me she enjoyed it. She was able to pick up some new dance moves from the strippers. Are you sure she wasn't just trying to be polite in response to your efforts? Personally, if one of my male friends even suggested an idea like that, it would be the end of the friendship, no questions asked. But maybe your friend is a bit more courteous than I am... It's not just the temptation of the strippers--at bachelor parties or outings with the guys-- it's also the peer pressure that will get them even if they're not that interested. My husband got a lap dance when out for a night with the guys. He was the only one that hadn't done it and the guys were telling the stripper to give him a lap dance and he ended doing it. Granted he could have said "no". I found out about it several months later--he "forgot" to mention it and honestly, I was devastated. It's amazing what some T&A can do to the male brain-- Truer words were never spoken. Sorry to hear about your experience, I totally understand what you're going through because the same thing happened to me. Even though i found out months ago (like your husband, my then bf kept it hidden from me for over a year) the thought still fills me with a black rage and immense pain. Anyway, Ive read some of your other posts and I'm glad you were able to channel your anger and hurt into something productive. Hey, like you I actually went out a few weeks ago and bought some books/dvds on pole dancing/strip moves etc. I was all motivated and excited for awhile about learning. Until I had a conversation with my ex about a week ago which put an end to things. He was out drunk somewhere, being a dickhead with his mates and I was trying to lure him back to my house. In desperation I said "Hey, if you come over i'll even give you a lapdance". And he's like "Mate, if I wanted a lapdance, I'd go to the city". And that was the end of that. :( That last part....a woman saying she detests other women(although kind of a generalization), seems kind of narrow minded...but if you have been in this forum long enough, you realize that there might be a reason for saying that Excuse me, but may I please have a chance to defend my narrow-mindedness?? I can understand how you may have come to this conclusion, given my comment in the context of the post. But let me stress that my hatred for other women has not arisen solely due to the whole SC fiasco and my feelings towards strippers. I dislike and distrust females because of the consistent and highly unpleasant experiences i've had with other women over the years. Quite frankly, nearly every single woman I've associated with - whether in friendship, employment, school or whatever) has turned on me and treated me with such vicious cruelty and underhandedness that it's left deep scars and a permanent distrust of anything remotely female. That's not to say that I haven't had run-ins with men in the past. But in my experience, men are usually way more upfront, fair and humane than females who tend to be crueller, sneakier and much more conniving. Please let me reiterate that I'm referring only to my own personal experiences over 20-odd years. Obviously, I'm not judging every male and female out there. Even though I've been burned, I still try and give other females a chance but it always ends up with me getting kicked in the teeth and wondering why I should bother. So I guess to sum up, in my experience the majority of men I've associated with in my life have helped me and taught me valuable skills - the women have just taught me how to have a low self-esteem. You know prostitution is one of the oldest professions. Especially during the gold rush when many women flocked out to CA, they found themselves without any jobs or education. They made their living and supported their families by prostitution. Yes, well thankf*** my great-great-great-great-great Grandmother and her friends got off their asses and figured out how to use their brains to make a decent and respectful living. Because if they hadn't, maybe I'd be flashing my wares in some back alley to pay my bills as well. Well what exactly do you go to a strip club for?. Apparently for 'entertainment'. I wonder if it would be as entertaining if the women were parading around in flannel shirts, fat pants and blundstone boots???
jmargel Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Well I will admit that I don't know you and I will apologize for saying you must not love your wife...I just can't imagine getting my rocks of with another woman if I loved my wife...but thats just me. Why do you guys think it 'gets my rocks off' to dance with another chick or to goto a strip club? Ever think that people can do such things without any other intentions? Just because I am married doesn't mean I am dead. You can have fun (ie. dancing, going out) without your SO and still love them. IMO there is nothing wrong with that. Hey sparky.. Everyone has the capability of cheating. Well yall can speak for yourself there. I have never cheated...never will. Never said you did cheat, but you have the capability of doing so, just like me or anyone else. There will always be temptation out there, someone will always catch your eye even if you are with someone. It's human nature and there is nothing wrong with it. Acting on it is the deal-breaker. I on the other hand will not tolerate being disrespected and a gf to allow another man to touch her in an inappropriate way. She wants other men to touch her that way...then they can have her. All I am saying is that she could have just made an innocent mistake and got caught up in the moment. You could have lost out on a great gal by ditching her as fast as you did. However like I said it's your life, you live it the way you wish.
jmargel Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 "They" are not a bunch of unenlightened, hysterical ignoramuses who run around pointing the finger out of ignorance. Despite what you think, I'm pretty certain that most of the women you refer to, including myself, are very damn well informed as to what goes on at these places. I do not need to "explore the environment" to further my learning on the subject, thank-you VERY much!!! . As far as I'm concerned: My man + Semi-naked/naked attractive women X close proximity to each other = ALARM BELLS!!!!!!!! Why.. because you don't trust your man? Or is it because we are all just a bunch of monkies that lose all senses when we see a half-naked chick. That is pretty insulting as a man to basically be told 'We can trust you, but not in that environment'. We are not as stupid as you think. If your man was going to cheat on you there, he would cheat on you at any other place as well. Are you sure she wasn't just trying to be polite in response to your efforts? Personally, if one of my male friends even suggested an idea like that, it would be the end of the friendship, no questions asked. But maybe your friend is a bit more courteous than I am... She brought up the idea, not me. I never even mention a SC to her. She wanted to see what it was like. She was skeptical about them but at least kept an open enough mind to at least see what it was truly about. She actually enjoyed it and like I said was able to pick up some new dance moves. And he's like "Mate, if I wanted a lapdance, I'd go to the city". And that was the end of that. Saying something like that IS disrespectful. However by him going to one did not make him this way. Good chance he had this attitude/personality for a long time. But in my experience, men are usually way more upfront, fair and humane than females who tend to be crueller, sneakier and much more conniving I agree with you there. If I have a deep dark secret to tell, I would talk to another male before I would a woman. She would either tell another or use it against me sometime in the future. Apparently for 'entertainment'. I wonder if it would be as entertaining if the women were parading around in flannel shirts, fat pants and blundstone boots??? Not really. I see quite a bit of that at Wal-Mart. Yes, well thankf*** my great-great-great-great-great Grandmother and her friends got off their asses and figured out how to use their brains to make a decent and respectful living. Because if they hadn't, maybe I'd be flashing my wares in some back alley to pay my bills as well. Yet you don't see any strippers on here getting upset because they have to show off their bodies for money. You were fortunate enough to not have to strip to make money. So that's something to be thankful for.
rainfall Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 It's not about the girl at all. It's his attitude and others on here that dancing with another at a club or going to strip club is considered cheating. It's not. Try all you want, but you won't convince me otherwise. Never said they were wonderful, however they are just like you and I. Never said you had to love them, but yes respect them as a person. They are not some evil person that is salvating and waiting to take your man. They are there to make money. . A lap dance IS CHEATING to me and other people. Why does that bother you so much? Just because some of us feel that we should be the only person to have sexual contact with our SO does not make us bad people. I will NEVER respect strippers as people or as strippers. I will leave it at that though otherwise I will offend half the people here. But for the record I think I look as good or better then alot of the strippers out there and I don't have the need to spread my legs for different guys everynight while they watch me dance. Or to dry hump alot of guys. My man is all I need and I better be all he needs or he can get out of my life. Why does it offend you so much that some people don't think they SO has any reason to get lap dances or be in a strip club jmargel? We aren't saying you can't do it. All we are saying is in our relationship it is wrong and/or cheating.
Carbine Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Carbine, first off, not ALL men love strippers and strip clubs...if you are so against them, it seems like you should find a partner who shares your views...you can't change someone else's views, the same way they can't change yours... Well I have yet to meet one who doesn't regard these things as his god-given right. It's a complete no-win situation. I may meet a guy who doesn't necessarily have a leaning towards SCs, but as soon as I open my mouth and make clear what I will and will not tolerate, oh my god it'll be like world war 3. I'm a controlling biyatch, he suddenly realises that SCs are essential to his survival on this planet, and the whole fiasco repeats itself. Your hostility really stems from jealousy and insecurity...why else would you care if strippers make more money than you? They have such a disgusting job, right? What should matter is that you like yourself and have a career that you enjoy... No **** sherlock. I'm the first to admit that that's where my hostility stems from, and i'm certainly not ashamed of it. I was referring to my alleged hostility in response to jmargels post about the stripper who lied to him about being some high-flying marketing exec. And I care that they make more money than me because a) I like money and the more the better b) they make tonnes more of it with a lot less effort than me and c) I resent the fact that they do this because they have the one trait that I lack, and it's lacking this trait that has caused me so much suffering and angst in the past. It just doesn't seem fair . I never said that it's a disgusting job either. Deep down I'd love to be able to do that, or have the option to do it because I could use the massive boost to my self-esteem. It may sound contradictory to everything I've said, but remember where my issues with strippers/SCs stems from. How good would it be if i could wake up tomorrow and saunter into work, take off my clothes and have men gawk in amazement at my beauty and throw money and affection at me just because of my looks?? Mostly Carbine, I really don't understand why you expend such energy on this subject...if it's a dealbreaker, it's a dealbreaker...you're entitled to your views...find someone who is compatible with you...and then you'll be much happier... Because the issue has affected, and still continues to affect me very deeply. I lost the best thing that's ever happened to me (my SO) over this, and I still can't come to terms with it. The whole nightmare situation is still unresolved, in my mind, and not being able to find closure is doing my head in. Yes, I may expend a lot of energy on the subject - I'm a passionate person and I feel things very deeply. So sue me.
Carbine Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Never said they were wonderful, however they are just like you and I. Never said you had to love them, but yes respect them as a person. They are not some evil person that is salvating and waiting to take your man. They are there to make money. And why should I respect those who destroy my sense of self-worth and self-esteem? I do not respect my enemies or those whom I feel threatened by. Why should I?? I've had the demoralising experience of sucking down my feelings of hatred/jealousy/sadness, feeling these emotions churn around and corrode me from the inside. It's not something I ever wish to repeat. Also, why on earth would I waste respect on someone who doesn't return the favour to me?? The slut who lapdanced for my bf didn't bother asking him "Do you have a girlfriend? How does she feel about this? Maybe you should think about what you're doing before you allow me to rub myself all over you while you feel my ass and tits". No, she just wanted to make her quick $200 regardless of who she may be hurting in the process. No whore like that is worthy of my respect, no matter what you say. So blame them because they are good looking? Boo-hoo. Get over it. God gave them a gift of beauty, I say if they wish to show it off, more power to them. God blessed you with certain gifts do you see them crying or being hostile towards you because they don't have what you do? Blame...resent...despise...i guess you can use the terms interchangably to a degree. But yes, I shall communicate my hostility towards them and about them for this reason, and also because LoveShack does not currently host a God-Bashing forum. Like I said, at first they would get an ego stroke but over time it's just the same old, same old. Funny when the times I was at the strip club those dancers just LOVED the regular girls that came in. They got more attention then what the guys did. And it's funny that Ive heard numerous accounts of strippers who quit their jobs and cannot become accustomed to a 'normal' lifestyle because they miss the money and the attention so much. Hence a lot of them return to stripping and I guess that's where the 'stripping is an addiction' argument fits in. That's where some of the difference lies. There is no intimacy between a customer and a dancer. No, there's no intimacy because it's prevented by Law. Why.. because you don't trust your man? Or is it because we are all just a bunch of monkies that lose all senses when we see a half-naked chick. That is pretty insulting as a man to basically be told 'We can trust you, but not in that environment'. We are not as stupid as you think. If your man was going to cheat on you there, he would cheat on you at any other place as well. NO! For the hundredth time jmargel, because it makes me feel highly uncomfortable and because I feel that it counts as 'cheating'. I feel that such a situation is not only extremely disrespectful of me and my needs, but also a goddamn cheek and completely unnecessary when he's in a monogomous relationship with ME! Don't you understand that I trust my man not to 'cheat' (as you and he would probably define the term)?? It's to do with the fact that there's obviously a massive discrepancy between what each of us believes is acceptable behaviour within the relationship. I agree with you there. If I have a deep dark secret to tell, I would talk to another male before I would a woman. She would either tell another or use it against me sometime in the future. Well I wasn't necessarily referring to deep dark secrets. I was talking in general terms. For example, if I've said or done something that's upset a male friend (whether or not i'm aware of it), chances are he'll confront me right away and state why he's upset. Same comment made to a female and I can be sure she'll act all sweet and friendly to my face, while bitching about me behind my back. For the record, I for one do not keep a stash of people's secrets hoarded away in the dark recesses of my mind, only to be brought out and 'used against' those people in the future. I prefer to confront others with their own blatant stupidity and foolishness to take 'em down a peg or two. Much much more fulfilling, IMHO . Yet you don't see any strippers on here getting upset because they have to show off their bodies for money. You were fortunate enough to not have to strip to make money. So that's something to be thankful for. I thought you said your beloved little AT&T rep stripped simply because she loved it??
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