Bachelor Party Woes

[Sheba]

I am continuing to give jmargel the benefit of the doubt and be aware of the sensible points he makes.

 

I think his point boils down to something like this: if your significant other wants to go to a strip club you shouldn't see it as a threat to your relationship and prohibit him from attending, because a trustworthy man will remain trustworthy even in that situation.

 

I do think jmargel's point gets lost because he is trying too hard to make it. For example, he says to me: When a woman dresses up sexy there is always a small part of her that does it for the attention. Doesn't matter if it's for the attention of other women or men. With that being said when a woman does this, they should not have a problem with her man's attention going for another woman, stripper or not.

 

Now, his statement is not entirely illogical, though I do disagree with it, but it doesn't make sense because it is in response to my comment: I don't think it is at all fair to say that the same women who do not like their husbands to go to strip clubs are hypocrites that all go out dressed designed to titillate other men. .

 

He forgets that there are women that dress very modestly who don't want their husbands to go to strip clubs. Those women are out there, jmargel!

 

Furthermore, I am a very shy person who dresses "sexy" strictly for my husband. He is like you, jmargel, and likes me to look sexy (in a dignified, age appropriate way - no nip slips, or dressing like a 25 year old!). I would not go out without him dressed in a manner that was likely to attract attention from other men because I don't want it and it would make me uncomfortable. I will, however, wear an elegant dress with some cleavage showing when we go out together. His presence "wards off" any unwelcome attention. We are both comfortable.

[CATENZA]

I think his point boils down to something like this: if your significant other wants to go to a strip club you shouldn't see it as a threat to your relationship and prohibit him from attending, because a trustworthy man will remain trustworthy even in that situation.

 

A SC shouldn't be a threat to a relationship but if the wife/girlfriend does feel that way, then the man should respect that and not attend.

 

Also, a man being trustworthy in a SC situation?? There are alot of different situations that can occur at SC. Is putting money in a strippers g-string something u can trust and are ok with, is getting a lapdance something you can trust and be alright with, Your man paying to go to VIP/Champagne room something u can trust?

[zeldazelda]

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

I think that's the QUOTE OF THE DAY!

 

thanks, lj.

[Sheba]

QUOTE=CATENZA:A SC shouldn't be a threat to a relationship but if the wife/girlfriend does feel that way, then the man should respect that and not attend.

I agree with this entirely.

 

And, I too love zeldazelda's "one sentence" summary of the whole issue! For me, that is absolutely true!

[zeldazelda]

But you did say ANYONE can get themselves in a situation(meaning cheating or whatnot)...and I was just telling you...wrong.

 

you can't say that is wrong unless you can predict the future. but that should make you get my point....YOU feel that you know how strong YOU are against these things. but do i know that about you for sure? no i don't. i only know for myself what i feel i would and would not do. does that make any more sense?

 

in short, you really don't ever know what someone else will do, no matter what they tell you, and no matter how much they believe it themselves. things can change and things do happen, sometimes to people who say "oh not me, never me, you're weak, not me"--that does not mean they always do happen, but that they can. so why risk it in a club, which is what this about, after all.

 

and this is why i don't see why strip clubs should be part of the equation in a relationship. because trust problems are often created, not imagined, and then blamed on the wrong person.

[jmargel]

I'll be honest. I see this assumption as misogynistic, shallow, and short-sighted. As if we women are all so vapid that the only thing we care about is some encouraging goon to look at our tits. You assume that ALL women want to have strange men look at them... like it's some kind of honor or something.

 

Yet you can all make the assumption that strippers are whores and us men cannot be trusted in a place like this. That if we go to see dancers then we must be pigs and not worthy of being in a relationship.

 

See how it feels? Not very good, does it?

 

 

You continue to minimize other people's beliefs on this subject. Countless posters have weighed in and said..."No this is not okay for me, and here's the reason WHY".

 

But you're soooo steadfast in your personal belief that they shouldn't have a legitimate problem with it that you continue to ignore the FACT that they do. This is not yours to call bullsh*t on. THAT's the point.

 

You can make a blanket statement for other people that 'it's all about trust' and 'all about insecurities.... but that won't make it true.

 

I don't believe I am minimizing other people's beliefs and have mentioned it numerous times that if both partners don't want to goto a SC, then that's great.

 

If a person has a legitimate problem about SCs or anything in general then the best way to solve it is to face it head on. Not by telling or forcing your partner from going to a place that he wishes to visit now and then. There are other ways to deal with those sorts of problems.

 

These are just more assumptions on your part. I've already tried to explain to you that women don't dress themselves, even when they dress "sexy", just so RANDOM MEN can ogle them. It's more complicated than that.

 

I'll be honest. I see this assumption as misogynistic, shallow, and short-sighted. As if we women are all so vapid that the only thing we care about is some encouraging goon to look at our tits. You assume that ALL women want to have strange men look at them... like it's some kind of honor or something

 

Just like not all men that goto SCs are looking for a piece of ass or are only there to have lapdances or tits rubbed in their face. However you refuse to think otherwise as well.

 

Painted us all with one brush again, didn't you? You know, I think maybe you're not as open minded and PC as you think you are.

 

Same goes for all of you who label dancers as whores, skanks, and basically degrading them to make them feel like nothing. While also degrading men who visit these places as slime. So don't talk about being open minded when you have these same kind of views.

 

So... childless though you are at this time, SOMEDAY, you... like the rest of us... might be sharing your child with "the village". And I'm thinking that maybe that overly-sexualized teen sitting next to your daughter in class, viewing her as a sexual commodity, is going to be more of a concern to you.

 

Again... you minimize.

 

You will always have those sexual predators out there. Life doesn't come w/ an instruction booklet so we don't know what's on the next page. We can only do so much to prevent harm to our children from what is out there but we can't totally stop it. I would have a concern for my child just like most people out there, but just because a kid views porn from the internet instead from his father or buddy's magazine collection doesn't mean he's going to be a serial rapist.

 

 

A4a, like I said (and re-read my post because I am tired of repeating myself) if you two don't like strip clubs then fine. I'm not on a mandate to get everyone to goto one. I stated my reasons for my opinions on here.

 

 

Now, his statement is not entirely illogical, though I do disagree with it, but it doesn't make sense because it is in response to my comment: I don't think it is at all fair to say that the same women who do not like their husbands to go to strip clubs are hypocrites that all go out dressed designed to titillate other men. .

 

He forgets that there are women that dress very modestly who don't want their husbands to go to strip clubs. Those women are out there, jmargel!

 

That I understand and I am not calling those kind of women hyprocrites. It's the ones that go out on a Sat. night, dressed up sexy or the ones getting boob-jobs, that I have a problem with when they are the ones forbidding their husbands from going to a SC. I've been at the clubs long enough to realize that the sexual tension in these dance clubs are FAR greater than a strip club.

[Ladyjane14]

I think you've finally answered my question from the other day about if you're being "deliberately obtuse" or not. At this point, I think it's safe to ASSUME there's no deliberation on your part.

 

 

Have a good one, JM.

 

[a4a]

Trust is not the same thing as respect and consideration.

 

Going to a sports bar where there are women..... I trust my H to do so.

Going to a strip club where there are women.... I trust my H and to do so but find it very disrespectful (my values) and very inconsiderate.

 

Just what I need spread around town " yeah I saw A4A's H at the club getting knockers in his face"...... I don't care about the titties .... I got a fine set myself.... I do think it is beneath my value system to be with someone who does does go to SC. Of course so does my H.

 

But stating that it is inconsiderate for a women to ask her H to not go.... well is it just not as inconsiderate for him to go?

 

(or a H that requests his wife does not go to a male SC)

 

One feels pain/hurt...... the other misses out on seeing boobies or wangers....

 

Now which spouse the jerk?

[rainfall]

I think his point boils down to something like this: if your significant other wants to go to a strip club you shouldn't see it as a threat to your relationship and prohibit him from attending, because a trustworthy man will remain trustworthy even in that situation.

 

 

Whether or not I trust my man is not the reason why I do not feel he should go to a strip club. There is nothing that goes on at those places that a man I am in a relationship should particapte in. Him getting a lap dance, touching a strippers g-string to put money in it, or even him yelling at how hot some chick on stage is is something I want no part of. If he feels the need to do it he can find a women who can put up with this.

[rainfall]

The boundaries are do not go to where the are naked women walking around willing to dry-hump you for 20 dollars. He knows my boundaries and he can leave if he wants. I have no desire to have stange male body parts shoved into my face. That REALLY wouldn't do anything for me. It would be such a huge turn off I probably wouldn't even want to have sex with my man when I got home.

 

You really act like a man needs strip clubs to survive in life. People live without them all the time. They actually live very happy lives. It is more selfish for a man to tell someone he "loves" that seeing other women naked and having them touch him means more to him then she ever could. (which when a man goes to a strip club knowing his women finds it wrong is what he is really saying)

 

I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth. I have worked for everything I have myself. I am paying my way through school myself. I might be going a little slower then I would like, but at least I can respect myself when I look in the mirror every day.

 

 

Well I really don't ever want kids but lets just say I had one. I would hope that he would want to date that kind of women. I would hope that the quality of women he dated would be better then that of an ex-stripper.

 

There is really no chance my bf would cheat on me with a co-worker or female friend of mine. There is however a great chance if he did go to a strip club one of the strippers would try to get him to touch her or pay for a lap dance. (which is cheating in my relationship)

[b_nextdoor]

i've always been clear with my husband about such things. drinking is ok but where strippers, lapdances and all that other stuff is present i've told him i would not accept him going. to me its cheating. but his friends think otherwiese, though they are all church going guys and one of them is our pastors grandson.

i think they pressure him.

Just out of curiosity, is your husband allowed to go to the restaurant, "Hooter's" by himself or with his friends? If not, I guess him flying on "Hooter's Air" or staying at the "Hooter's Casino" in Las Vegas are both way out of the question.

[new_stella]

The only person who has serious issues with SC and strippers is you, jmargel.

 

You seem to be obsessed with them. What is your story?

 

Just like not all men that goto SCs are looking for a piece of ass or are only there to have lapdances or tits rubbed in their face.

And what exactly are they looking for??

 

 

Same goes for all of you who label dancers as whores, skanks, and basically degrading them to make them feel like nothing. While also degrading men who visit these places as slime. So don't talk about being open minded when you have these same kind of views.

They are degrading themselves by doing the job they are doing.

This is the same as saying we are not open minded for not appreciating the drug dealers.

[jmargel]

Now we are associating strippers as drug dealers.. Nice.

[a4a]

Now we are associating strippers as drug dealers.. Nice.

 

and drug users!

[rainfall]

Now we are associating strippers as drug dealers.. Nice.

 

Strippers are not the perfect angels you try to make them sound like.

[Krytellan]

Strippers are not the perfect angels you try to make them sound like.

They can be if you pay them enough. Ahh... perfect women strippers are... perfect.

[Carbine]

IMO that just comes from you being paranoid

'Observant' is the word you're looking for.

 

Did she know he was attached? No. Was it her responsibility go keep him on the straight and narrow because he had a gf? No. Was your BF going to cheat on you anyways if he never even met this girl? Yes.

 

She wasn't the one & only temptation in the world that made him cheat. Alot of girls out there are very tempting. Good chance he's either cheated on you before or would in the future. Her perception of him was probably based on alot of lies from him.

 

She has no responsibility in this. Your BF has it all. It takes two to tango and your ex was prepared way in advanced wearing his dance shoes.

Yes, and tango she did. Which totally negates what you've said. I don't care what you say, she SHOULD have had some responsibility.

 

Like I said it's his attitude and immaturity that has caused all of this, not the strip club. In fact this 'strip club' did you a huge favor. It made you see what he was really made of. Not because he went but it just brought about the cheating much faster. I would rather find out that my spouse is going to cheat as early as possible in the relationship so that I don't waste my time on her.

 

You don't know my ex from a bar of soap. He is not someone who 'cheats' ie goes out and has sex with some random girl. It was strip club culture that allowed him to think that what he did was not in fact cheating. So he didn't feel guilty.

 

She also allows me to make my own choices in these decisions. If my wife told me she felt uncomfortable about me going to a SC, good chance that I wouldn't. BUT the main difference is that I would be making up my own decision not her nagging me or threatening to leave if I were to goto one.

Thats all fine and well because that in theory the assumption is that he'd respect her feelings enough in the end and chose not to go of his own free will. Happy endings and all that. But what if he still chose to go along? That would tear me apart because it'd be a case of I'm damned if I do and I'm damned if I dont.

[jmargel]

Yes, and tango she did. Which totally negates what you've said. I don't care what you say, she SHOULD have had some responsibility.

 

Why should SHE have any responsibility in this? It was him who allowed things to get too far, at anytime he could have said stop or no. She has NO loyalty to you and you should not expect her to have any.

 

She should not need to go around verifying if the guy she is giving a lap dance for is married or gets approval from his wife/gf. I guess strip clubs should get a written permission slip from the spouse who's going to be allowed lap dances?

 

You don't know my ex from a bar of soap. He is not someone who 'cheats' ie goes out and has sex with some random girl. It was strip club culture that allowed him to think that what he did was not in fact cheating. So he didn't feel guilty.

 

So then by your quote you are going to have to keep him on a collar and leash so that he's not *tempted* by this again. IMO that's not a way to live and you will find yourself mentally and emotionally exhausted by donig this. However it's your life. If this is the only way to keep your guy from cheating on you then that's pretty sad.

 

He didn't feel guilty because he doesn't care how you feel. It's his own selfishness and he has you taught pretty good. He's a good player to be able to convince you like this.

 

Thats all fine and well because that in theory the assumption is that he'd respect her feelings enough in the end and chose not to go of his own free will. Happy endings and all that. But what if he still chose to go along? That would tear me apart because it'd be a case of I'm damned if I do and I'm damned if I dont.

 

Then you don't hold it against him and wish him a good time. To trust him and to know he won't do anything wrong. I keep trying to tell you and many others out there that it is easier to cheat with someone that is not a stripper. Most cheating is done between co-workers or opposite sex friends. Those are the situations that you need to look out for.

[hardcase]

They can be if you pay them enough. Ahh... perfect women strippers are... perfect.

 

fake tits and all.

[Carbine]

Why should SHE have any responsibility in this? It was him who allowed things to get too far, at anytime he could have said stop or no. She has NO loyalty to you and you should not expect her to have any.

 

She should not need to go around verifying if the guy she is giving a lap dance for is married or gets approval from his wife/gf. I guess strip clubs should get a written permission slip from the spouse who's going to be allowed lap dances?

 

Because SHE was the one who sashayed past, stuck her tits in his face and seduced him into getting a dance.

 

So then by your quote you are going to have to keep him on a collar and leash so that he's not *tempted* by this again. IMO that's not a way to live and you will find yourself mentally and emotionally exhausted by donig this. However it's your life. If this is the only way to keep your guy from cheating on you then that's pretty sad.

 

He doesn't seem to mind the collar and leash when I bring 'em out on special occasions . But in all seriousness, if I could have my time over with him, I probably wouldn't act so upset and worried if he was somewhere where he may walk past a (normal) attractive girl. There's not much I can do about it. But I'd still put my foot down with strip clubs. There's a difference.

 

He didn't feel guilty because he doesn't care how you feel. It's his own selfishness and he has you taught pretty good. He's a good player to be able to convince you like this.

 

Yeah, he's a good player and I'm a gullible idiot. Naff off. While I don't agree with a lot of the things he does, he is ANYTHING but a manipulator, selfish or a player. I really don't know how the f*** you can come up with judgement that's so off the mark. I'm gonna show him this, he'll laugh his head off.

 

Then you don't hold it against him and wish him a good time. To trust him and to know he won't do anything wrong. I keep trying to tell you and many others out there that it is easier to cheat with someone that is not a stripper. Most cheating is done between co-workers or opposite sex friends. Those are the situations that you need to look out for.

 

It's easier to cheat with someone not a stripper, yes, if 'cheating' to you is kissing/having sex etc. But to me its cheating as soon as he walks in the doors of the club. So basically I'd be saying to him "have a good time when you're off cheating on me tonight".

[new_stella]

Strippers from a completely different perspective:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1191934#post1191934

[Flyin in Clouds]

What is upsetting about the fact your husband is going to a bachelor party? Have you ever been to one? Do you not trust your husband? If your husband is a cheater, he is far more likely to pursue his pleasures in secrecy (NOT during a party attended by tons of friends).

 

Had to laugh at the comment "free sex is unavoidable" ... you are kidding right?

 

Every woman thinks that EVERY man will jump their bones if they spread their legs. Such is the vanity and fantasy (or insecurity) of most women. Get a grip.

[Flyin in Clouds]

Y...

IMO, most men don't look for oppertunities to "put it" in any orifice available.

 

Speak for yourself Lakeside... Most of us dream about it. Few of us do it.

 

Well not "any" orifice anyway.

[Flyin in Clouds]

...Yes a lap dance IS cheating. ...

 

Uh, no it's not. Sleeping with (i.e. putting it in... ) the dancer is cheating.

 

Do you also think looking at nake women, as in playboy, is cheating? Women seriously get a grip. If a guy wasn't interested in women he'd have no interst in you.