Wanted divorce, wife changed ways

[empty906]

Things are looking better after sleeping on it. I looks like my only real option is to stay married and let time pass. Let the OW work on her M and let some time pass there as well.

 

I'll leave the OW alone, I am not going to pretend as much with my W as I have been but I will still BS a little to keep peace in the house. I can keep up appearances for awhile longer.

 

She will have to face the fact that I am not happy in our marriage. I don't think I showed be forced to play it out to keep her feelings protected. She is free to go, she knows that. I am free to go, I know that. She won't leave me because of the security I provide her. I won't leave because... well, you know already.

 

So is this where this chapter ends? Stalemate?

I suppose the truely happily married are the oddballs.

[empty906]

In anycase, you'll still find the one that "completes you".

 

I hope so. Maybe in the future at some point. You never really know what is going to happen. Each day can be the day when everything changes.

[Ladyjane14]

I am not going to pretend as much with my W as I have been but I will still BS a little to keep peace in the house. I can keep up appearances for awhile longer.

 

She will have to face the fact that I am not happy in our marriage.

 

Hmmmmm... how's she supposed to know 'why' you're unhappy when you don't TALK to her about it???

 

I've told you a couple of times that there's a certain value to the concept of "fake it 'til you make it".... but that value is limited to forming new habits that will replace old ones.

 

For example, if your old habit was to yell at your mate everytime she pissed you off, your new habit might be to take a time-out and then talk about it calmly. That action might feel "fake" for awhile. But after a time, it wouldn't. It would just be THE NEW HABIT.

 

You still have to TALK to your wife if you want anything to change. Right now, you vacillate hourly on if you do or you don't want that change. But I'm telling you... if you keep f*cking around, you're going to end up having that choice made FOR you.

 

Your confusion, as well as Dilly's, stems largely from this attraction you have to these OW. It's just not possible to look at your family dynamic in any kind of clear way until that is resolved.

 

But both of you are having a REALLY hard time coming to terms with the 'Emotional Affair' dynamic. Both of you are having a hard time stepping back and seeing the commonalities in 'how this thing works'. You each seemingly believe that your situation is somehow different... and I assure you, it's not. "There's nothing new under the sun."

 

Both of you have posted about where these OW are coming from, but neither of you will accept that as truth. You're trying to read more into it than what is there. You're trying to answer the question of "Which of these women would I rather be with" still. But THAT is not an option. Both of these OWs have told you so.

 

'Yes'... they liked the way they felt about themselves in receiving all this extra male attention. 'Yes'... they liked YOU. 'Yes'... they'd like to keep that attention coming, but in a benign way, as "friendship". But 'No'... they aren't going to be leaving their marriages.

 

You have only been exposed to HALF of the story about these women. The story as understood from their own POV, not their husband's. This is why I wanted you to look at Bklk's story, and see that he has a POV as well.

 

What do you think an OM who was sexually attracted to your own wives would think about YOU?

Empty, you've said the OW's husband is "psycho" and she's well and truly 'trapped' in her marriage. What do you think another guy would say about you if your wife were to share her side of this tale with him?

 

EVERYTHING is a matter of perception. The 'truth' in emotional terms, is often based on where you're standing and what you can see from your point of view. The TRUTH you've had from OW is not the same TRUTH you would have had from her husband. Your "truth" is not the same as your wife's either.

 

Now... you guys stand in the center of chaos. An emotional storm swirls around you. OW is an illusion in that storm. She has already TOLD you as much in very clear terms, and you can stretch it and pull it and TRY to make it different, but it is what it is. Continuing to reach out to her for a hand-hold leaves you drifting. She's NOT really there.

 

The only one who can help you is YOU. Your wife is in no position to help you. Her path is blocked... in part by your withdrawal, and in part by her ignorance of the need to do so. She can't see the "storm" surrounding you because you've deliberately HIDDEN it from her.

 

"Happily married" isn't like winning the lotto, Empty. It's a result of TWO people working hard at it. Waiting for it to land in your lap... yeah, THAT's like winning the lotto.

 

Honestly, I think your best bet at this point is to lay your cards on the table and tell your wives what's been going on. Make no mistake... you'll risk EVERYTHING when you do. Each of your wives might decide that she doesn't want you anymore. But at the minimum, you'd know what her work ethic is going to be if she decides to stay in it. And... if she does decide to stay with you, she'll finally be in a position to help pull you back out of the storm.

 

Your only other alternative is to CHOOSE your course based on logic, and pull yourselves out of that storm on your own. Ths path is less risky, but it involves YOU doing most of the work and your "work ethic" must be strong.

 

Once you're out of "the storm", and you can see clearly again... I think you might both be surprised at what you see.

[CaliGuy]

To be honest and real with you, at this point I am satisfied not having either. The OW has her stuff to work out and my W and I just aren't meshing. I'd take the walk if my boy would still be in the same city with me.

 

I have been toying with the idea of a seperation today. A couple we are friends with did that and it seemed to have helped the guy. They stayed apart for a couple of months.

 

I ran the idea by my W awhile back and she said that if two people were to seperate then they should go ahead and D.

 

If you are 100% sure you feel that way then go for it. Just realize that if you decide to separate your wife may take that as the final straw and go forward with filing a divorce.

 

Be sure, 100% sure, this is what you want before you go forward. Also realize that you are going to lose time with your son no matter what as that is part of the process.

 

I can sympathize with you not wanting to lose time with your son. That's an unfortunate part of divorce that is not exclusive to you. It happens to every father (and sometimes mothers) who choose divorce over "for better or for worse - in sickness and in health."

 

Best of luck.

[CaliGuy]

LJ, great post. One can only hope Empty and Dilly are not just reading, but understanding what you are saying.

[stubbornbutnice]

Empty...

You made a joke that I should talk to your wife... well flip that around... you should talk to my husband. I mean you shouldn't live the rest of your life unhappily but you really are trying. I wish my H could do the same. I really respect you for what you're doing, but at the same time, as a woman who is in your wife's position (minus OW) I would rather be let go then live a lie (when it reaches a certain point). I wouldn't mind my husband faking for a while but at a certain point (not sure what point) I wouldn't be happy with mediocre. I also wouldn't want that life for my son, he should be surrounded by love.

 

Lady Jane-

 

I love what you said about asking yourself if you would rather be alone forever or with your spouse... I wish you could call my H and put it that way for him. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t112094/ if you are ever bored please read my little story. I have read your posts and I would love your feedback, if you don't mind.

 

 

Empty and Dilly... I hope you can keep it up. And I hope that eventually keeping it up turns in to not trying at all, and everything gets better.

[empty906]

Hey, guys, I think I finally get it. It takes opposing opinions a long time to sink into my stubborn head. You have been exceedingly patient with me and kept repeating and repeating yourselves hoping I would eventually 'get it'. Your efforts have not been in vain and your voices are heard.

 

I talked with a friend today for quite awhile who is unhappy in his marriage. There is no OW, he isn't wanting a D, he just isn't in a marriage that makes him as happy as we talked about. But he isn't going anywhere, he isn't looking outside the confines to see who else is unhappy. He's just plugging away everyday and doing what he thinks he should do as a husband. He goes to see her during the day, he supports her, he provides whatever she needs. She tried to have an affair but he caught her before she went too far. He still plugs away.

 

Not the same situation and I didn't get into any details about my garbage, I just let him vent. LIke you have let me vent here and sort my thoughts. He doesn't 'fake it' like I am, he is more like 'continuing'.

 

You all have told me and told me how things were going to go down if I continued the path I am on. And you were correct. You told me how I need to approach my W. I faught against your ideas but now see you were right along. Thanks for not backing off!

 

And about the OW, I'm alright with her memory and story I can tell someone one day. I can move past that now.

 

My W and I will be celebrating Valentine's Day tonight due to some other plans and this will be a chance for me to begin seeing things through that different perspective. Maybe we will talk about some of these things. Maybe. We'll have to see how things play out. I am willing to do all the work now on my side thanks to your posts and support. I can review the things that were said and use it as a 'guide' to keep me on track.

 

What a whirlwind. What a mess stupid guys can get themselves into. We can make some really bad decisions sometimes. And then fight tooth and nail against those trying to help us.

 

And CaliGuy, I have been against your little comments on the OW needing to go away all along. You were so wrong and I knew better. But it was the other way around. Thanks for the persistence.

[Ladyjane14]

Lord Have Mercy!... let's just see where you are six hours from now. :lmao:

 

I'm just raggin' on ya of course, but as you've already said... "this has been a whirlwind". Buckle up there, Empty... and we'll all do the same.

[CaliGuy]

And CaliGuy, I have been against your little comments on the OW needing to go away all along. You were so wrong and I knew better. But it was the other way around. Thanks for the persistence.

 

 

You're welcome. It's not about who is right or wrong here, it's just getting you into the right frame of mind so that you can be receptive to your wife's changes. LJ has been giving you some excellent advice which I hope you take to heart.

 

You married this woman because at one time you loved her more than anything else in the world. My only advice to you is to try and remember what those things were and earnestly work as hard as you can to rekindle those feelings.

 

Best of luck!

[stubbornbutnice]

Empty... good luck on your valentine's day date. I hope you catch that lovin' feelin'. I know we'll get an update after.

 

Keeping my fingers crossed.

[OldEurope]

My wife and I have been married for 12 years with an 8 year old son. We married young at 17 and 20(me) and the good times barely lasted a year. The next 11 years were spent fighting, constantly. We didn't hold back no matter who was present, including our son. Several moths ago I became friends with a woman and something was different(....)

 

The marriage had sexually been held to once or twice a month, her choice(....)

 

So we had multiple daily fights, lack of intimacy, poor communication because I had withdrawn from her, and she would regularly tell me she hated me during our fights. I would never speak words like that to her but I certainly felt them.(.....)

 

So, daily I grew closer to OW and became more and more confident that she was who I would be with. Only she cannot D for some very good reasons. So I would wait until she could and then marry her, however many years it would take.(....)

 

[My wife] did change but was back in less than two weeks.(.....)

 

Things are better marriage-wise but I do not love her. At all. None. I feel she is putting up a front out of fear that I will leave her and I wonder how long she can hold out. Can she pretend forever? Am I expected to also pretend to love her forever? Is faking it all we have to look forward to?

 

 

Sorry! Not to rain on anyone's parade here, but here is Empty's first post and first impressions are the lasting ones. Read this: After the FIRST YEAR of marriage he realized a mistake had been made. He goes on to say there is no feeling, no emotional or physical intimacy, that he has worked to discipline himself but the substance is just not there, and his wife "changes" and then goes back to the same person to whom he is not on any level attracted.

 

(And Caliguy....Er...what exactly was the "big love" that brought these two people together at 17/20 years of age?)

 

...And every one here saying, "Too bad. Live with it".

 

Don't shoot the messenger but really. My predicition? A Valentine Day dinner that falls flat, and a "saved" marriage that falls even flatter. Empty will be back in months, in agony.

 

Empty, I am on your side, despite my Grinch-That-Stole Valentine's Day "attitude" here. I am for your having a happy, loving personal and intimate life with a person who responds to and needs you (need in the right sense) with reciprocal care and respect. Love 101.

 

Kisses to the team on V day!

 

OE

[Ladyjane14]

My W and I will be celebrating Valentine's Day tonight due to some other plans and this will be a chance for me to begin seeing things through that different perspective. Maybe we will talk about some of these things. Maybe. We'll have to see how things play out.

 

How was your date? Curious minds need to know. :bunny:

[CaliGuy]

Sorry! Not to rain on anyone's parade here, but here is Empty's first post and first impressions are the lasting ones. Read this: After the FIRST YEAR of marriage he realized a mistake had been made. He goes on to say there is no feeling, no emotional or physical intimacy, that he has worked to discipline himself but the substance is just not there, and his wife "changes" and then goes back to the same person to whom he is not on any level attracted.

 

If you marry someone, there's obviously something there. He realized he made a mistake when the arguments started. They've persisted throughout most of their marriage which is why he has gotten to this point. It's my belief if they can get to the point they see eye to eye, the arguments stop and the love can return.

 

I think it's totally out of line for you to discourage someone from making an earnest effort to salvage their marriage. If they try and it does not work then fine, get a divorce. But his wife is making a concerted effort to salvage the marriage and I think he owes it not just to her or his son to try, but to himself.

 

(And Caliguy....Er...what exactly was the "big love" that brought these two people together at 17/20 years of age?)

 

The bible states "When a man and woman join in marriage the two cleave together as one." That is what they decided at 17/20 years of age. They need to give it an honest chance before throwing in the towel. And that is what I believe empty has decided. Allow him to be free to make that choice. At least then if it fails he can safely say "We gave it our best shot."

 

...And every one here saying, "Too bad. Live with it".

 

Don't shoot the messenger but really. My predicition? A Valentine Day dinner that falls flat, and a "saved" marriage that falls even flatter. Empty will be back in months, in agony.

 

It's a good thing that not everyone sees the glass half empty as you do.

 

Empty, I am on your side, despite my Grinch-That-Stole Valentine's Day "attitude" here. I am for your having a happy, loving personal and intimate life with a person who responds to and needs you (need in the right sense) with reciprocal care and respect. Love 101.

 

His wife IS responding and doing her part. Now he needs to do his. If and only IF it fails after they have tried then would I recommend parting ways. But not until both parties have given their best. Anything less guarantees failure and does not live up to the marriage vows. And I don't know about you but I would not take a marriage vow without being 100% sure I was willing to follow them.

 

Anything less and you're cheating yourself and your spouse.

[empty906]

Thanks for keeping an interest in my M, guys! Your support is awesome.

 

Well, for our Valentine's Day date she made reservations a very nice little Italian restaurant she had been to with friends but I never had gone. We are walking out the door to fight the rush hour traffic between us and this restaurant an hour away. Then she remembers she forgot to deliver a project to her boss and we back track across town to where she works and she diddles around getting it ready for him for the following morning. Now we are late.

 

So I bust ass to make the reservation. We are flying down the highway and she hates how I drive anyways so she is trying her best not to get stressed as she knows we have to make it on time. Oh, and it is raining. But things are fine between us.

 

As we pull into the parking deck for the area business I get a business call. Neither of us knows which way to exit the parking deck to come close to the restaurant and we about four minutes to find it and get inside. Still raining.

 

I am trying to help a client find this house he was to take his wife by that evening to see if she liked the looks of it. He lost my directions and is in the wrong area. I am trying to talk him out of that area and into another while she is getting pissed at me for being on the phone. She is wanting me to ask someone walking by us which way to go. I tell her I am on the phone, she should ask. She says she won't and I say I can't tell this guy to just drive around until I decide to call him back.

 

She breaks and asks someone where we should go and we take off in a hurry. I finally get my client to the driveway as we are entering the restaurant. Slightly late but they held the table. Whew.

 

The atmosphere was beautiful, as you would expect, and we relaxed and enjoyed our meal. (I did get one other business call but that one didn't take long. I excused myself and stepped outside for it.)

 

Always at work, I know. I'm sure you guys are the same way.

 

We went shopping after dinner and she headed to Victoria's Secret. She can camp out at this store so I spot Books-a-Million and tell her I will be waiting for her there. She said she will call me when she is done at Victoria's Secret. Well, I wait and wait but she never calls. I walk through the store a couple of times but never see her. She must be trying on something still. And I wait and wait and wait.

 

I hate waiting. One of my faults.

 

So I call her to find out if she is still trying on 'clothes' and she said she is not there. She decided to go to some other stores and has been walking around shopping. I asked her why she didn't call and she tells me that she said she would call after she finished shopping. Misunderstanding maybe? I know what I heard.

 

She gets on the defense but I tell her I'm not mad, just got tired of waiting. I asked if she needed to go to any other stores (nicely) and she said she wanted to go home. She said she had a surprise for me there. I wonder what it could be?

 

We get home and she tells me to grab a shower while she gets everything ready. Ready?

 

I walk into the bedroom and she has candles everywhere, romanitc music playing, and wearing one of her 'outfits'. Hey, guys, she is laying it on thick this Valentine's Day. She has gone all out and is trying to do everything she can think of.

 

She even asked if I wanted rose petals on the bed. WTF? And she had them, too. Where did she get those?

 

----

 

The date went much better than I expected. I never mentioned anything about how I felt and we made small talk. Small talk is hard for us, has been for many, many years. We just don't talk about stuff. But we chit-chatted alot that night.

 

Truthfully, I no more love her now than I did when I first posted. Just empty still in that department. But it has only been a short amount of time, I am realize that. You have said that it takes time and I suppose it will. She is running full steam trying to please me. She has been cooking about everynight. She never cooks, we eat out every meal. But tonight she fixed shrimp alfredo for dinner and said she fixed that because at the restaurant she had asked me what I was wanting to eat and I said I really wanted some shrimp alfredo but they didn't serve that there.

 

I asked why there weren't any scallops in it and she said because she didn't have time to go to the store. I was kidding and she knew it.

 

But as far as 'how are things'? Ok, I guess. I am afraid she is going to overdo herself trying so much and burn out. She is doing things she never/rarely does. It is obvious she is still afraid I am thinking about leaving her. But it is nice to not be fighting all the time. And to not come home to an attitude waiting at the door. But... it is still not what I want. It is what my family needs. I am still at the roommate level, as of today.

[empty906]

Let me throw something out here that I never did tell you about. If you think that is possible.

 

Back when I approached my Mom about how I was feeling about D and we began talking about so much stuff, she asked me if I had ever thought of my W liking one of her bosses. I said I have never picked up on anything like that at all. She quoted several on my W statements and I kinda smiled and told my Mom I would remember that and listen more carefully. (Out of curiosity, not jealous at all)

 

Well, I wonder if she does. She talks about him constantly. Constantly. I rarely talked about my OW unless my W asked me something about her. They know each other but aren't really friends. My W just kept on talking about him again tonight as we ate dinner. My Mom's comments stayed with me the whole time. She knows so many minute details of his life and marriage and she knows none of this stuff about the others. She is the secretary for a group.

 

Could it be? Mom said she would deny it if anyone asked her. And she may not realize it herself. I think it would be comical if she did like the guy. Both of us interested in someone else and neither of us willing to admit it to the other.

 

Aw, maybe we are just interpreting her wrong. But it is interesting to say the least.

[Gunny376]

So from your recent post I gather that your in real estate, (sales) which means "can to can't", long days, long hours, if you're not actually featuring and benfiting, then you're out prospecting for new leads and new clients.

 

The wife has a job, and somewhere between the hustle and bustle of the rat race the two of you end up in this martial comma, with your trying to hang in there to see if you can re-ignite the fire, and the passion.

 

One of the primary reasons my XW, wanted out of our marriage is because I was a "workaholic", back then I couldn't see it, I was an active duty carrer Marine. Seventy ~ eighty hour weeks were the norm, and I never worked less than sixty. Sixty hour weeks were "soft-duty", but that was seventeen years ago.

 

Hindsight being what it is, twenty-twenty and all of that ~ I can look back that all work and no play made Gunny a dull boy. When I did get home, I was beat, menatallly, emotionally, spiritually, physically. Being i the Marines is very demanding, your best is never good enough, and your tested each and everyday. You can bat a thousand, everyday for 19 years, and you strike out just once, and its a downward spirial from there.

 

Added to that was the stress of being the primary provider, the one that was responsible for bringing home the bacon, keeping a roof over everyon's heads, clothed, etc.

 

I went through some serious stress, that I postponed, and delayed in dealing with and ending up with PTSD. Even though its been years and years, and I've examined my own personal trainwreck of a marriage, time and again.

 

When I got divorced, I got to reading, there's wasn't any internet back then, no Books A Million, no Barnes and Nobles. Just the occassional Waldenbooks, and we all know what a limited selection they carried.

 

One of the books I did read was a book by Dr. Ellen Kreidman. It was in paperback version and cost less than $6, and was titled "Light Her Fire"

Goggle it, I can't link you because its a paid sight, or offers the programs for sale, and its against LS policy to link to those kind of sights.

 

She offers two kinds of programs. One is for the man called Light Her Fire, and the other for women called Light His Fire.

 

I applied what I learned out of that simple book in my relationships subsequent relationships. The paperback just gets your creative imagination to running. And, it jump starts from there.

 

My first Valenitine's with my GF (post divorce) I was in the flower shop. When it came my turn, I told the clerk that I wanted "that" wicker basket (about 3' tall) with the heart shape handle filled and decorcated Angel's brerath, and "that" (small to medium size) teddy bear with a ballon in one hand and one rose in the other, with the XMAS type blinking heart shaped light deliverd to her work. When they delivered all the other teachers came from all over the school to see it. They ooohhhedd and awwweed over it and complained that all they got was the standard issued dozen roses ~ the same as they get every years. For six months or better I could do no wrong.

 

Also, one Friday evening, in the winter, (no special occassion) she came home to a house filled with candles, and rose petals, (you can go to the flower shop, and tell them to save them up for a week or so, go by and get them) and romantic music playing, From the back door to down the rose strewn petal path, there was instructions to go to the bath, where I had her bubble bath drawn with candles, and after she was in the tub, I brought her champagene. I warmed her towels and terrry cloth bathrobe hanging from a chair in from of the open oven. Gave her a massage, foot rub, etc. After that one, I could do nor say no wrong for about a year.

 

About every three months, I would cart her off un-expectingly to a bed and breakfast ~ she never knew where until we got there. Once was in the Smokie mountains, another a carriage ride in Charleston SC, another a paddleboat ride in Augusta, Ga. and another time in the old town part of Savanah Ga. Once I went a whole year without doing so, after having done so for a number of years in a row, and I could tell she was missing it, wanting it, and desiring it ~ I was saving my money up for a two night stay at the Hotel Continential at Hilton Head Island, South Carolina, (think the Taj Mahal of Hotels ~ they're international in Paris, London, etc.) For that one I could do no wrong for almost a YEAR AND A HALF!

 

We broke up primarly becuase we're from different states, and I retired from the Marine Corps. She couldn't leave her family, and I wanted ~ needed to be near my children.

 

I encourage you to look at the material. What you had with the OW you can have with your wife. What you've lost can be regained. But, your going to have to earn it the old fashion way ~ you're going to have to work for it, but you know what? To have anything with anyone ~ that's what you're going to have to do ~ if not you're going to be right back where you currently are. And, its not your fault ~ its not like they teach this stuff in high school, nor even college.

 

The "Five Languages of Love" and "Light Her Fire" isn't required reading anywhere.

 

But one thing is a fact ~ for sure and certain ~ no one ever laid on their deathbed and said, "Gee! I wished I'd spent more time at the office!"

[Gunny376]

As we pull into the parking deck for the area business I get a business call. ......................I am trying to talk him out of that area and into another while she is getting pissed at me for being on the phone.

 

BTW, her issue is your putting your "business" before her! It doesn't have to be business, it can be your hobbies, (fishing, golfing, hunting, drinking, drugs, batmiton, tennis ~ whatever), your buddies, your family, your job, your carrer.

 

I can promise you, there's NOT a woman on the planet that will play second fiddle to someone or something else for very long. Wheather you stay with this woman or not ~ you need to clearly understand and comprehend that about women or you are destined to repeat this over and over again with every single woman you meet.

 

I remember reading about some Joe, that busted his ass to climb the corporate ladder to make VP. When he did, he came home full of pride and accomplishment to his big nice home, his cars, his possessions, etc.

And, instead of his wife being in awe, she told him, "That's nice! But, what I really wished you had done was to spend more time with the children and I. But, they're grown and own their own, and there's nothing left between you and I, and so I'm leaving you!"

 

Funny damn thing about pointing fingers? We all need to first look at the three we've got pointing back at ourselves. Only you and you alone can do that!

[Ladyjane14]

Well, for our Valentine's Day date she made reservations a very nice little Italian restaurant she had been to with friends but I never had gone. We are walking out the door to fight the rush hour traffic between us and this restaurant an hour away. Then she remembers she forgot to deliver a project to her boss and we back track across town to where she works and she diddles around getting it ready for him for the following morning. Now we are late.

 

So I bust ass to make the reservation. We are flying down the highway and she hates how I drive anyways so she is trying her best not to get stressed as she knows we have to make it on time. Oh, and it is raining. But things are fine between us.

 

As we pull into the parking deck for the area business I get a business call. Neither of us knows which way to exit the parking deck to come close to the restaurant and we about four minutes to find it and get inside. Still raining.

 

I am trying to help a client find this house he was to take his wife by that evening to see if she liked the looks of it. He lost my directions and is in the wrong area. I am trying to talk him out of that area and into another while she is getting pissed at me for being on the phone. She is wanting me to ask someone walking by us which way to go. I tell her I am on the phone, she should ask. She says she won't and I say I can't tell this guy to just drive around until I decide to call him back.

 

She breaks and asks someone where we should go and we take off in a hurry. I finally get my client to the driveway as we are entering the restaurant. Slightly late but they held the table. Whew.

 

The atmosphere was beautiful, as you would expect, and we relaxed and enjoyed our meal. (I did get one other business call but that one didn't take long. I excused myself and stepped outside for it.)

 

Always at work, I know. I'm sure you guys are the same way.

 

We went shopping after dinner and she headed to Victoria's Secret. She can camp out at this store so I spot Books-a-Million and tell her I will be waiting for her there. She said she will call me when she is done at Victoria's Secret. Well, I wait and wait but she never calls. I walk through the store a couple of times but never see her. She must be trying on something still. And I wait and wait and wait.

 

I hate waiting. One of my faults.

 

So I call her to find out if she is still trying on 'clothes' and she said she is not there. She decided to go to some other stores and has been walking around shopping. I asked her why she didn't call and she tells me that she said she would call after she finished shopping. Misunderstanding maybe? I know what I heard.

 

She gets on the defense but I tell her I'm not mad, just got tired of waiting. I asked if she needed to go to any other stores (nicely) and she said she wanted to go home. She said she had a surprise for me there. I wonder what it could be?

 

We get home and she tells me to grab a shower while she gets everything ready. Ready?

 

I walk into the bedroom and she has candles everywhere, romanitc music playing, and wearing one of her 'outfits'. Hey, guys, she is laying it on thick this Valentine's Day. She has gone all out and is trying to do everything she can think of.

 

She even asked if I wanted rose petals on the bed. WTF? And she had them, too. Where did she get those?

 

----

 

The date went much better than I expected. I never mentioned anything about how I felt and we made small talk. Small talk is hard for us, has been for many, many years. We just don't talk about stuff. But we chit-chatted alot that night.

 

Truthfully, I no more love her now than I did when I first posted. Just empty still in that department. But it has only been a short amount of time, I am realize that. You have said that it takes time and I suppose it will. She is running full steam trying to please me. She has been cooking about everynight. She never cooks, we eat out every meal. But tonight she fixed shrimp alfredo for dinner and said she fixed that because at the restaurant she had asked me what I was wanting to eat and I said I really wanted some shrimp alfredo but they didn't serve that there.

 

I asked why there weren't any scallops in it and she said because she didn't have time to go to the store. I was kidding and she knew it.

 

But as far as 'how are things'? Ok, I guess. I am afraid she is going to overdo herself trying so much and burn out. She is doing things she never/rarely does. It is obvious she is still afraid I am thinking about leaving her. But it is nice to not be fighting all the time. And to not come home to an attitude waiting at the door. But... it is still not what I want. It is what my family needs. I am still at the roommate level, as of today.

 

You know what I like about you, Empty?? You're always candid enough with your information to give us a clear view of what's going on. Good job.

 

I think you can see by the parts that I emboldened, areas in which you and your wife weren't prioritizing each other enough.

 

... Her mistake about not getting her project to work on time, shouldn't have been corrected at YOUR expense.

 

... Your phonecalls should have been sent to voicemail, with the exception being the babysitter.

 

... Your driving should have been considerate of her anxieties, even if you were late and had to choose another restaurant.

 

... You both should have made a concerted effort to entertain the other in conversation.

 

... You should have BOTH stayed together in the mall, enjoying each other's company, and then moving on to something more fun the minute either one of you got bored.

 

These little things add up. And while it's great that you both maintained good self-control during each little snafu... it's not as rewarding as making your partner feel like s/he is the most important part of your world during the course of the date. So... overall, while you each did a pretty good job, there's still room for improvement.

 

What we want to accomplish is not just dealing well with things that might cause resentment, but rather REMOVING the causes. So that you don't feel like you're having to stuff down disappointments.

 

Is it possible to share this breakdown of events with your wife and talk about it? You know... kind of a post-date analysis?

[mum2three]

That is such great advice Empty. Please share this with your W. I can see now concretely from your day of events that many of us are guilty of nelgectful behaviour. We would NEVER do that to someone that we were dating! Well, hopefully not.

 

I think that is what effective counseling should do for a couple. The events of the day and time spent with each other should be broken down and analyzed to how it can be improved. Otherwise, we all fall back into the same habits and patterns that will eventually happen in every R.

 

LJ, I think it's too late for me. But it's only my introspection but great advice for future R.

[mum2three]

You are a super romantic guy. I can't believe how you swept your ex GF off her feet like that.

[Ripples]

Gunny, marry me.

 

Failing that, I need to get you to give my boyfriend a 'talk'

[mum2three]

"Back when I approached my Mom about how I was feeling about D and we began talking about so much stuff, she asked me if I had ever thought of my W liking one of her bosses. I said I have never picked up on anything like that at all. She quoted several on my W statements and I kinda smiled and told my Mom I would remember that and listen more carefully. (Out of curiosity, not jealous at all) "

 

I would not discount this 6th sense b/c chances are your W needs her emotional needs met too. If she feels that you have pulled away and have relied on OW then it is not out of norm for her to seek support outside of the M too. Pay closer attention. See what needs she is asking for. Don't give up.

[empty906]

BTW, her issue is your putting your "business" before her! It doesn't have to be business, it can be your hobbies, (fishing, golfing, hunting, drinking, drugs, batmiton, tennis ~ whatever), your buddies, your family, your job, your carrer.

 

I can promise you, there's NOT a woman on the planet that will play second fiddle to someone or something else for very long.

 

But one thing is a fact ~ for sure and certain ~ no one ever laid on their deathbed and said, "Gee! I wished I'd spent more time at the office!"

 

I know this, Gunny. I really do. I work about 70-80 hours a week. I can throw up some solid excuses but I know that it isn't the best for us. I do spend atleast an hour every night with my son. Sometimes we get more time than that, it depends. And I almost always spend about the same time with my W. I stay up late after the house is quiet to finish projects, send emails, research for the next day, and other things I can put off to the nighttime hours when no one is requiring my time.

 

I don't put the businesses before her in my eyes. For what I do it takes alot of hours. There aren't many hours in the day and someone like myself struggles with shoving as much into one day as possible. So I am always working. I was on the phone less than fifteen minutes the entire evening. We lost more time than that running up to where she works. I don't see my W putting business before me. She had something that had to be taken care of at that time. I can relate! When I saw who was calling I knew it was something that had to be taken care of right then.

 

Both of us rely on our paychecks and you do what what needs to be done to ensure they continue coming.

 

But you are so right, no one ever wishes they had spent more time working. You all should know how I love my son and I feel giving him set aside one-on-one time each evening is what I should do. That is why he and I are so close.

[empty906]

You know what I like about you, Empty?? You're always candid enough with your information to give us a clear view of what's going on.

 

You know you can ask me anything. I will spill my guts and air all my dirty laundry since I can hide behind this curtain of anonymity. I would never tell anyone any of this stuff. I am a private person but for some reason I enjoy the release I get from sharing what is going on with me. As along as no one knows me. Too embarrassing.

 

Is it possible to share this breakdown of events with your wife and talk about it? You know... kind of a post-date analysis?

 

You bet. I think that is a great idea. But, if it is the same, I would rather self-correct than get into a discussion with her about it. I will, however, ask her about the phone calls I received and see what her thoughts were on my taking them. The stuff about walking together and hanging out together, that is part of the problem on my side. I don't want it and it is hard for me to go and tell her "I want to stand there and stare at piles of panties while you try on fifteen different things." I don't want to just 'hangout with her'. But I can respect her wishes more on accepting phone calls.

 

Ok for now? Good enough, maybe? I will add more as time goes on, you'll make sure of it!

 

Oh, and my driving. Yeah, I drive fast. But I am a safe driver! She has been on me about that since we met. The other day I am heading to a meeting and I see a state trooper coming. My phone rings and the trooper says, "It's a 35 through here, ******." I respond, "I know, hey, what are you doing for lunch?" I told my wife what happened and she said, "You know you are lucky, don't you?" Me and my fast driving...

[mum2three]

"The stuff about walking together and hanging out together, that is part of the problem on my side. I don't want it and it is hard for me to go and tell her "I want to stand there and stare at piles of panties while you try on fifteen different things." I don't want to just 'hangout with her'."

 

I think it would be great for her to know where you stand too so she can make herself more interesting to you or give you the attention that you need. Would OW make you wait this long and hop around to other stores to leave you standing there? Recognize that if she can change her behaviour too.