God made us to be like HIM?

[lonelybird]

Why would god tell you he was going to judge you since he already knows the outcome of your actions. If he gave us free will and doesn't know the outcome of our actions or whether we will repent or not then he can't be all knowing.

After human being lost spiritual connection with God from the day Eve ate the fruit, we are controlled by nature rules. But God gave us clues what are right and what are not right to do. AND God gave us free will. if no free will we would be like robot. I think nobody want to be like robot. you can use free will do many things.

 

In material world, e.g:between apple, orange, strawbery....and we can choose any from them. doesn't matter

 

In spiritual world, Every time we choose God's rule than sin, we get peace, love, forgiveness in heart, like living heaven; every time we choose sin than God's rule we get hatred, upset, isolation from others, like living hell. and I think the choosing process at the moment decide good or evil is the way to get close to God or further to God, or living heaven and living hell. Af for God's judgement, when God tell people don't do certain things, but they still do, then can you blame God judge them?

 

And God knows this. the key point is you choose which side. if you choose right, then you do yourself good; if you choose bad, then you do yourself harm.

 

we can observe these things from people's life around us. what decide a person's welfare and joyfulness, it is not nature rule. not money, not material, not fame....

 

This is not a perfect world. each of us has good cards and bad cards (suffering, bad happening) in our hand. the best thing we can do is to make good use of them, even make bad cards turn into good things.

A women was abused by her father in her childhood. but she didn't stop the stage of anger, complain, bad luck...instead she forgave her parents and love them back, and she is now helping uncountless women to have a joyful life. she is quite famous, maybe you know her.

 

your logic wear me down:p

[Green]

Look u started off say something like if god is all knowing why would he change his mind, and if god was super power full or something wouldnt he able to change his mind... God exists outside of time for one so when he decides something different, if thats what god does it wouldnt be like when we do because god is eternal and exists outside of human time. as for the rest of your insanity you cant prove everything and you curtainly are not smart enough to test everything. for instance gravity something realy simple yet infinetly complex to understand I mean for most of man kinds scientific history no one understood gravity then one day an apple fell on Newtons head or something like that and hey now theres some math equations then those equations are proved wrong and some newer ones come along, then some silly physicist goes and suposedly discovers these invisible things so gravitationaly powerful they make all our laws about gravity fall apart wow now you know there going to come up with something new but basicly know one fully understands it theres a curtain level of faith. My point is you sound like you really think about god alot but you dont seem to understand the fundumental principle is that you wouldnt be able to fully understand god like some paragraph in a book, u wouldnt be able to test god out like a batery in you flash light and u curtainly well you just sound like you want some one to convince you of something you probably already feel inside you

[lonelybird]

Sometimes our suffering is consequence of others sin, but if we come out of the suffering and still can have faith in God, believe in the lightness (love, trust, forgiveness...), not darkness (hatred, distrust, unforgiveness...), then we and our personalities can leap to next level, like alchemy.

[Love Hurts]

The DC

 

 

[in fact he has no ability to change

what we do since he doesn't exist at all.]

 

--We are suppose to change what we do…

its our freewill that generates changes in our lives.

 

 

*God does not make us to simply bow down

and worship Him; Originally Posted by Love Hurts

 

 

[No I'm pretty sure that in your scripture

you'll be able to find a couple of passages about

how we are supposed to bow down and worship him.

To claim otherwise simply ignores even your own teachings.]

 

--Do you bow down and worship God?

Does the world bow down and worship Jesus?

 

If you can no; Then its sufficient to say;

God does not make us to simply bow down and worship Him.

No puppets…Men move on Freewill.

 

[so prayer has no efficacy?]

 

--Often times in prayer we do ask a miss

of God not according to His will and purpose

in our lives… but we pray according to own lusts…

and therefore those prayers are not answered.

 

Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss,

that ye may consume it upon your lusts. James 4:3

[lovelorcet]

Hi, TheDC

I am weak in Science and chemical, i must say. and I agree scientists did really excellent job to help us to understand the world around us. but based on my rough understanding, science only proved phenomenon, can you tell me HOW the gravity get there? what created gravity? did any scientist creat gravity so far?

science seems like blindman touch elephant. there are 7 blindmen to touch elephant at different parts. and none of them have same opion about what elephant is. but if you combine them, then probably will get more clear picture.

Can scientists prove what chemical elements love consist of through experiment?

 

This is a perfect example of something that incredibly frustrates many of my colleagues and myself included; most normal people think they know something about science but in actuality know very little about how science is done or how to ask and answer questions according to science.

 

Some people thought the world was fate and with time we have now figured out the world it a sphere. We new this many years before we got our first picture from space. There are still people today who think the world is flat and do their view have a right to be explain in a school or a text book.

 

There are some people who think the world is only about a few thousand years old because some monk made an estimate according to the bible... People or science think otherwise for more reasons then I have space here to describe. Which arguments are more compelling?

 

Many people think that evolution is just some weak theory and that the bible is a better explanation for creation. Evolution is much more complicate then some simple story as can be read in the bible but there is more evidence for this then any other possibility. I work with evolution all the time... every day in my lab. We can force flies to evolve in one way or another. We can modify the genomes of many creatures using the same theories which support evolution for many different goals.

 

When I drop my pen the theory of gravity is the best explanation as to why it falls to the floor. Just as evolution is the best explanation for the diversity of spices we see in the world.

[Love Hurts]

This is a perfect example of something that incredibly frustrates many of my colleagues and myself included; most normal people ....think ...they know something about science but in actuality know very little about how science is done or how to ask and answer questions according to science.

 

Some people ...thought ...the world was fate and with time we have now figured out the world it a sphere. We new this many years before we got our first picture from space. There are still people today who ...think ...the world is flat and do their view have a right to be explain in a school or a text book.

 

There are some people who ...think... the world is only about a few thousand years old because some monk made an estimate according to the bible... People or science think otherwise for more reasons then I have space here to describe. Which arguments are more compelling?

 

Many people ...think ...that evolution is just some weak theory and that the bible is a better explanation for creation. Evolution is much more complicate then some simple story as can be read in the bible but there is more evidence for this then any other possibility. I work with evolution all the time... every day in my lab. We can force flies to evolve in one way or another. We can modify the genomes of many creatures using the same theories which support evolution for many different goals.

 

When I drop my pen ....the theory of gravity is the best explanation as to why it falls to the floor. Just as evolution is the best explanation for the diversity of spices we see in the world.

 

 

Yes its true Scientist think…

 

We thank God for a scientific mind.

I know I have a scientist under my roof…

It’s a marvel to listen to a scientist.

Yet…Its still just man speaking to me of knowledge learned,

as man passes down historical learnings and justifies new ones.

 

What is the life span of a scientist?

How much can one learn and know in a lifetime?

 

Jesus is from old from everlasting… I trust in His word.

Its not mind over matter,

its heart matter that makes the diff, into ones accepting Jesus.

 

What is truth?

I will take the word of God over science any day.

 

More Fascinating...

Many scientists seem to be struggling with Darwinism.

Some brilliant minds are realizing the truth.

 

The Genius of the mind of God and the machines He made;

as Science opens doors...we see God more clearly.

 

Amazing! To see your colleagues find God!

 

[COLOR=#800080]http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...669588896670&q[/COLOR]

 

Scientist now question Darwinism for truth and validity?

Concluding… Higher Intelligence is truly responsible for the human body.

[Love Hurts]

This is a back up link; encase the first one fails.

 

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-5585125669588896670&q

[lovelorcet]

Yes its true Scientist think…

 

More Fascinating...

Many scientists seem to be struggling with Darwinism.

Some brilliant minds are realizing the truth.

 

The Genius of the mind of God and the machines He made;

as Science opens doors...we see God more clearly.

 

Amazing! To see your colleagues find God!

 

[COLOR=#800080]http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...669588896670&q[/COLOR]

 

Scientist now question Darwinism for truth and validity?

Concluding… Higher Intelligence is truly responsible for the human body.

 

 

Let me make this very, VERY clear... intelegent design in NOT science this is a creationist way of thinking which has been tried to be packaged into a pseudoscience form.

 

You can of course find scientist who have conflicting views about evolution but that does not change the theory itself. It still stands today as the best explanation of the origin of species.

 

Read Nature, Science, Cell, Plos, PNAS, Development etc... You will find thousands and thousands of peer reviewed studies supporting and using evolution.

 

 

Here are some brief thoughts about the people in the video you linked to:

 

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pmcentrez&artid=1103713

[lovelorcet]

Pretty much the point of that film is...

 

Well scientists can't answer theses questions... So it must be god...

 

That is not science...

[TheDC]

Look u started off say something like if god is all knowing why would he change his mind, and if god was super power full or something wouldnt he able to change his mind... God exists outside of time for one so when he decides something different, if thats what god does it wouldnt be like when we do because god is eternal and exists outside of human time. as for the rest of your insanity you cant prove everything and you curtainly are not smart enough to test everything. for instance gravity something realy simple yet infinetly complex to understand I mean for most of man kinds scientific history no one understood gravity then one day an apple fell on Newtons head or something like that and hey now theres some math equations then those equations are proved wrong and some newer ones come along, then some silly physicist goes and suposedly discovers these invisible things so gravitationaly powerful they make all our laws about gravity fall apart wow now you know there going to come up with something new but basicly know one fully understands it theres a curtain level of faith. My point is you sound like you really think about god alot but you dont seem to understand the fundumental principle is that you wouldnt be able to fully understand god like some paragraph in a book, u wouldnt be able to test god out like a batery in you flash light and u curtainly well you just sound like you want some one to convince you of something you probably already feel inside you

 

What you are describing is the scientific method. The scientific method is a body of techniques for investigating phenomena and acquiring new knowledge, as well as for correcting and integrating previous knowledge. It is based on gathering observable, empirical, measurable evidence, subject to the principles of reasoning.

 

Religion relies on none of this for any of its claims. It relies only on faith and dogma. It isn't open to the scientific method nor does it evolve. It is pure and simple superstition and should have been abandoned hundreds of years ago. The existence of god or any other claim made by the religious when subjected to the scientific method simply cannot be supported as there is no observable, empirical, measurable evidence. None. The same reasoning that tells us all that Zeus or Apollo cannot possibly exist is the same reasoning that tells us that god cannot exist. Just because you want it to be so doesn't make it so. The reasoning that you use to support the existence of god would mean that Zeus, Apollo, Thor and Odin must also exist. You cannot prove that they do not also exist according to your criteria. And to claim that these other gods are simply manifestations of god is a copout it still doesn't make then any more real.

 

And before we go down the path of ID, no credible scientist feels that ID has any value whatsoever. ID is dogma wrapped in pseudoscientific speech and has absolutely no scientific validity. There is simply too much evidence that contradicts it. The only value ID has is as a political weapon and not as a credible scientific theory.

[magichands]

I work with evolution all the time... every day in my lab.

That's interesting... seeing that it supposedly takes millions of years for it to happen. You must have discovered something revolutionary - a time machine, perhaps?! I will look for you in the newspapers soon, then.

[magichands]

ID is dogma wrapped in pseudoscientific speech and has absolutely no scientific validity. There is simply too much evidence that contradicts it.

There is no evidence to contradict it. And no evidence to support it, either.

 

To say that evolution "explains" the origin of life is utter nonsense. Evolution and ID are not meant to deal with the same issue. Or, more accurately, evolution's scope is much narrower than ID.

 

Life is very, very poorly understood. It's time you fessed up to that.

[Green]

What so wrong with faith? Even with science you need faith there are no certainties, I mean you could catch a disease from the food you eat but you eat it anyways and go out to restaurants right. You could sit in a chair and it would break as you sat in it killing you who knows. You have friends who have earned your trust I hope and you cant know everything about them so you must have some faith in them or at least some faith in your family. My point is nothing can be proved 100% so you can go around being skeptical of everything so faith isn’t as silly as your trying to make it. Nor am I advocating the other extreme of being incredibly gullible and believing everything my point is just that faith is something you need to have to varying degrees to live life. Bringing up Zeus and Apollo has nothing to do with Christianity that was before Jesus Christ and know one believes in that any more. That’s like bringing up when people thought the X-Rays were good for you as a way to discredit all science, bringing up an abandoned religion doesn’t discredit the religion people have faith in now.

As for evolution and your claim that no credible scientist feels that ID has any value I doubt you even did any research on your facts before making that statement. In fact most credible scientists do believe in god according to my research and admit they don’t know all the answers. Evolution does not answer everything and the current model of evolution is not what Darwin himself had started. Evolution still does not answer that fundamental question of why life exists in the first place.

[magichands]

My point is nothing can be proved 100% so you can go around being skeptical of everything so faith isn’t as silly as your trying to make it. Nor am I advocating the other extreme of being incredibly gullible and believing everything my point is just that faith is something you need to have to varying degrees to live life.

Fantastic post, KMT.

[quankanne]

lovelorcet, I think it's safe to surmise that you feel religious faith is a bunch of hooey because there's no real scientific measurement, and that the Bible cannot be trusted because the equation of science and faith don't balance. What we're trying to say is that faith is not, nor cannot be measured by science, much like you cannot call an apple an orange. They are two separate entities, but not mutually exclusive.

 

I think those of a scientific bent forget – possibly intentionally – that first and foremost, the Bible is a book of spiritual writings about man's relationship with God and how it impacts the world around him. That there are many literary devices used to bring the message across more clearly to those it is intended to reach. Was the world created "only" a few thousand years ago? Possibly, if we take into account a measurement that can identify those millions and millions of years as a single unit ... much like ten dimes equals a dollar the same way four quarters does. It's still a dang dollar no matter what kind of change makes it up.

 

faith and science aren't mutually exclusive, at least not to those willing to open their minds to that possibility.

 

as for being able to "prove" God exists, I'll go back to my previous example of the creation of life. Much as we try, we cannot create from scratch a viable life, merely replicate, clone or breed it into existence – there's no store with jars of DNA coding we can mix together like a recipe and come up with a rutebega, a cat or a human being. But because there are those who refuse to consider this as a possibility, I'll go with my other example, that of emotions. We can't see them, though we can feel them and know they exist. We love, we hate, we envy, we desire, we emote. We know those feelings and emotions are real because we've experienced them.

 

a believer experiences God the same way, and though each person has a different experience, it's simply God. For us to deny that belief because we can't prove it is like asking you to prove love and envy exists. You might be able to come up with examples of that emotion, but there's no physical way to show it.

[Love Hurts]

Pretty much the point of that film is...

 

Well scientists can't answer theses questions... So it must be god...

 

That is not science...

 

They were fair and did extensive breakdowns on the Darwin Theory.

They added new finds through modern technology, retesting and or debating. Darwins statements.It made sense.

 

Very fair and in the end… their conclusion was much greater and far beyond Darwins mind of truth.

I refuse to exalt mans mental reasoning over God. As for these scientists in the video I applaud them particularly when they have obviously have put their necks out to say….

 

There Has To Be a Higher Intelligence of Creation! … . Praise Jesus for Scientist!

 

Especially when we can now connect the word of God with their discoveries. Solidity is so much better.

[lonelybird]

This is a beautiful place! Love ya:D

 

I saw two movies, really wonderful. they are about scientist and evolution, AND love, God, if you are interested, please check this out. I think there are DVD in rent store.

 

A beautiful mind

 

The Celestine Prophecy

[Love Hurts]

This is a beautiful place! Love ya:D

 

 

 

Lonelybird...

 

Amen... what a place…to be in the Lord!

 

The brotherhood of Christ ever growing and encouraging,

Its uplifting to exhilarating.

Its; hope and joy, peace that surpasses all understanding,

above all its through Faith; believing and not seeing,

trusting and knowing.

By faith… How can we describe it?

 

Jesus knows a mans heart. Words alone are only those… words.

A heart that supports words; is what Jesus looks for.

The mind cannot argue with the heart nor the heart with the mind.

Its when the mind and heart unite as one. Both in agreement that it is;

having No doubts in God....Walking expectantly.

 

Trusting the Lord in all Things; Good and Bad…

And we know that all things work together for good to

them that love God, to them who are the called

according to his purpose. Romans 8:28

 

In agreement with Pureinheart,

let the blessings of God rain down upon us each and all;

we in this forum. As we give Glory to God in the Highest

from whom all Blessings flow. Lets give a shout of PRAISE JESUS!

 

We love Him and love through Him because He first loved us.

He is the Good Shepherd…

 

4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep,

if he lose one of them,

doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness,

and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

 

5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing!

 

6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends

and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me;

for I have found my sheep which was lost.

 

7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner

that *repenteth,

more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

 

Jesus is the Good Shepherd ever searching and calling his lost sheep,

The Lord and Heaven rejoice over;

one found...

 

 

God Bless us all in our walk of the Lord.

Torches* High

[lonelybird]

Beautiful! Lovehurts

Praise God

God bless

[lovelorcet]

That's interesting... seeing that it supposedly takes millions of years for it to happen. You must have discovered something revolutionary - a time machine, perhaps?! I will look for you in the newspapers soon, then.

 

You obviously do not know as much about evolution as you seem to think. A species can start to diversify itself with in just a few generations.

 

I am sure you can use your google finesse to find enough examples of this....

[lovelorcet]

What so wrong with faith? Even with science you need faith there are no certainties, I mean you could catch a disease from the food you eat but you eat it anyways and go out to restaurants right. You could sit in a chair and it would break as you sat in it killing you who knows. You have friends who have earned your trust I hope and you cant know everything about them so you must have some faith in them or at least some faith in your family. My point is nothing can be proved 100% so you can go around being skeptical of everything so faith isn’t as silly as your trying to make it. Nor am I advocating the other extreme of being incredibly gullible and believing everything my point is just that faith is something you need to have to varying degrees to live life. Bringing up Zeus and Apollo has nothing to do with Christianity that was before Jesus Christ and know one believes in that any more. That’s like bringing up when people thought the X-Rays were good for you as a way to discredit all science, bringing up an abandoned religion doesn’t discredit the religion people have faith in now.

As for evolution and your claim that no credible scientist feels that ID has any value I doubt you even did any research on your facts before making that statement. In fact most credible scientists do believe in god according to my research and admit they don’t know all the answers. Evolution does not answer everything and the current model of evolution is not what Darwin himself had started. Evolution still does not answer that fundamental question of why life exists in the first place.

 

There is nothing wrong with faith at all. If you want to believe that your camera is able to take pictures because a little daemon lives inside there and can paint really fast then all the power to you.

 

Faith is faith and not science. These two forces do not mix. Science works to give rational answers to our surrounding world... Faith offers nothing of substance.

 

If you are sick and you have the option for a scientifically developed treatment or to sit around and pray for god to cure you which would you take?

 

So, now lets take a group of people and offer this to them and we can do a study to see which treatment is better.

 

Now we can repeat this study again and again and will most likely end up with the same results and if we don't then we start over from the beginning.

 

So just think about that next time you are at the doctors and get treated for something. You can be sure that when you take that pill it was not developed by a bunch of people in white lab coats looking over a vile of water and saying;

 

"Alright people lets pray really hard today that this water will be the new cure for lung cancer. Now if everyone believes hard enough it just might work..."

[tragicglands]

You obviously do not know as much about evolution as you seem to think. A species can start to diversify itself with in just a few generations.

Diversify itself??

 

Dude, you are obviously intelligent, so try not to insult us. It is clear to everyone here that our own offspring are not carbon copies of ourselves. And you claim that as evidence of evolution??!! Now get back to your books, and try to take more notice this time. By all means, please let us know if you catch a speciation event in the lab, haha.

[lovelorcet]

For example it is possible to take a starting strain of fruit flies who are related to each other and separate them. Allow them to propagate separately from one-another and after many generations (which go by fast for fruit flies) you can end up with populations who are so different from one another that they can no longer mate.

 

Here is a very simple example of what I mean by diversification:

 

http://www.txtwriter.com/backgrounders/Evolution/EVpage08.html

 

 

Most of the other examples of what we do or use in the lab are too complicated for most people to understand here. So sir you want to talk about this stuff maybe you are the one who should spend some time cracking the books.

 

But wait that is just it, it is so much easier to just believe in some simple fairy tale instead of using your brain to come to rational conclusions.

[Green]

There is nothing wrong with faith at all. If you want to believe that your camera is able to take pictures because a little daemon lives inside there and can paint really fast then all the power to you.

 

Faith is faith and not science. These two forces do not mix. Science works to give rational answers to our surrounding world... Faith offers nothing of substance.

 

If you are sick and you have the option for a scientifically developed treatment or to sit around and pray for god to cure you which would you take?

 

So, now lets take a group of people and offer this to them and we can do a study to see which treatment is better.

 

Now we can repeat this study again and again and will most likely end up with the same results and if we don't then we start over from the beginning.

 

So just think about that next time you are at the doctors and get treated for something. You can be sure that when you take that pill it was not developed by a bunch of people in white lab coats looking over a vile of water and saying;

 

"Alright people lets pray really hard today that this water will be the new cure for lung cancer. Now if everyone believes hard enough it just might work..."

 

What does faith have to do with little demons inside a camera? I'm not argueing that a digital camera doesnt have a hard drive inside to digitaly store images?

 

So you dont think faith and science mix? I never said people do scientific expirements by praying infront of a microscope for a chemical reaction to take place did I? I'm just saying at some point you have to have faith in something because even science isnt absolute. And I think Science is great but I still believe in god and I dont think theres anything wrong with that. Most great scientist through out history have believed in god, infact I cant think of one great scientist who was an athiest although I guess there must be some.

 

And as far as cancer goes people who have survived it and prayed to god said it really helped them when going through tough life chalenges such as chemo therapy. So next time you go to the doctor why dont you ask if they believe in god because I wouldnt want you to get sub standard care by some one who may have a little faith in something greater than themselves and what they can see right in front of them because life seems to be one big satistic to you and by now you should have relized that if all you believe in is science the conciousness you experience is just an illusion caused by electro-chemical reactions in your brain and there is no hard proof of a thing called a soul. So have a great time arguing with people who actualy believe in something that there the loony

[InsanityImpaired]

What does faith have to do with little demons inside a camera? I'm not argueing that a digital camera doesnt have a hard drive inside to digitaly store images?

Try and prove there is NOT a daemon inside the camera. You can't. Therefore there must be a daemon inside the camera, right?

 

Most great scientist through out history have believed in god, infact I cant think of one great scientist who was an athiest although I guess there must be some.

And naturally, you must believe in God to be able to access a glimmer of truth. . A "majority of people believes"-argument is a bogus argument in the first place. The majority of Americans may well believe that the US is abigger country than Canada, when factually it is not. But because the Americans believe the US is bigger than Canada, it must be factually bigger, right?

 

And as far as cancer goes people who have survived it and prayed to god said it really helped them when going through tough life chalenges such as chemo therapy.

Just because it helps, does not mean God exists. And how many people who believed in God, have died despite praying? Does each individual death prove that God does not exist? Apparently. If I am not mistaken having a pet like a cat, or dog to spend time with you also improves your chances of recovery. And I won't even mention placebo effects ...

 

So next time you go to the doctor why dont you ask if they believe in god because I wouldnt want you to get sub standard care by some one who may have a little faith in something greater than themselves and what they can see right in front of them because life seems to be one big satistic to you and by now you should have relized that if all you believe in is science the conciousness you experience is just an illusion caused by electro-chemical reactions in your brain and there is no hard proof of a thing called a soul.

The soul is a human-made invention.

 

Ever thought of how little sense the Cartesian dualism makes? But I have to admit, if you believe in a daemon inside a camera (because you can't disprove it does not exist, therefore it must exist) it is not a strange dualism.