YAHWEH vs. ALLAH

[blind_otter]

Thank you bluetuesday...the bible seems to have many contradictions indeed...

 

For instance, doesn't it say there that all humans are subject to erring? Wouldn't that make the bible, written and published by humans subject to erring as well?

 

Well to be fair, the bible was written so long ago in a different culture and geographical location that has different traditions and practices than we do. I tend to like the parables and whatnot, but just to get a general idea. Anyone who reads the bible literally has to be a bit off, or a little dense. Or both.

[CardPlay3r]

Yeah...been reading this thread and I see bluetuesday made the same points I made above already...

 

I especially enjoyed post #55, that was such a clear cut argumentation that reputing it with a bunch of misplaced bible quotes makes me think reasoning with the OP is like reasoning with a brick wall...her attitude and opinions are going against jesus' teachings

 

On a side note, blue you seem to be more agnostic than I thought....although I couldn't call you an agnostic.

 

So if I understand correctly, you recognize that humans cannot understand the true nature of god...although you believe god exists?

 

If that's the case I just take it a bit further and believe that besides not being able to understand the true nature of god, humans cannot understand/answer the existence of god either...

[Porn_Guy]

lets all hide behind scripture instead of using our minds to come up with logical and objective arguments....

[quankanne]

nothing wrong with using Scripture to underline your point, but your point really ought to be valid to begin with, not just stirring up poop (intentionally or not).

 

besides, I believe the best way to share the faith is to be a positive role model of it, so much so that someone not familiar with it – or, dare I say even against it – gives it a second thought because you live it in a manner they can respect ...

[blind_otter]

I remember at mass yesterday the priest kept telling us to share the good news. I sank down in my pew with a red face. I just get so embarassed sharing the good news when there are people like the OP smashing bibles in everyone's face all the time. I mean, that just gives everyone who is remotely associated with christianity a bad name. It's so embarassing when people get like that.

[quankanne]

I dunno, otter – maybe it's a Catholic thing? Where you don't proselytize or "Bible thump" because it can lead to a near occasion of sin (pride, etc.), and that it's better to be a model of God's love for others ...

 

looking at it from the latter viewpoint, there's so much inspiration to be found in others – even those who proclaim themselves atheistic or agnostic – because the good you see in them is reflective of the good you know that is God.

[Porn_Guy]

I mean, that just gives everyone who is remotely associated with christianity a bad name. It's so embarassing when people get like that.

Christianity, along with all other major religions, has done a lot of great things throughout history.....its also done a lot of very bad things too.

[bluetuesday]

On a side note, blue you seem to be more agnostic than I thought....although I couldn't call you an agnostic.

 

So if I understand correctly, you recognize that humans cannot understand the true nature of god...although you believe god exists?

 

If that's the case I just take it a bit further and believe that besides not being able to understand the true nature of god, humans cannot understand/answer the existence of god either...

 

i say that humans CAN recognise the true nature of god - just not the full nature of god. it is possible to glimpse the divine, although full understanding is impossible until/unless you ARE the divine in its allness. therefore i have no difficulty in saying that god exists. because god is the name i give to everything that exists.

 

does the god of christianity, islam or judaism exist? no, i am certain he doesn't. god cannot be contained in an idea that isn't all-encompassing and open to constant transcendence, because god is more than you can possibly imagine.

 

my belief is that everything in the universe IS god. and no, i can't prove the existence of any of it. but i believe that the fabric of the universe is made from the only substance that can truly be said to exist - god's own self-conscious awareness, assuming form. so you could say i do not believe anything exists that isn't god. wearing a disguise. sometimes a damned good disguise.

[Love Hurts]

My point was, how can believe the bible to be so accurate or even accurate at all seeing it was written by humans, a gathering of bishops that fought and disagreed among themselves even.

 

I am asking this from a rational point of view, you cannot prove the bible is true with quotes from the bible, that's like someone asking you "why is this true?" and you answering "because I say so"

 

CardPlay3r,

 

I answered from the word the best I could. Answering in the word … is not my word…

 

Its His Word, so its not that I say so… When I offered ‘His word’ in response to the question at hand….” Its because He says so.”

 

Beyond His word, and the miracle of the word having stood the test of time, beyond the written facts that support many proofs in science and in history to current and end times.

 

Beyond my narrow focus of self …saying I know He lives.. because He lives within my heart. Beyond my testimonies of feeling the Holy Spirit of God, beyond telling you of my visions, beyond telling you I have seen Jesus. Beyond my one voice.

Beyond all the solidity of the Word … how can I believe?

 

Faith… its called faith.

 

Are their mistranslations in the Bible From Hebrew Torah to Greek to Latin to English.

I had a short study on this topic. The English Bible compared step by in reverse to the Hebrew Torah.

There are some mistranslations … not enough to sever the word of God and altar the Bible.

 

If man seeks away out of hearing and believing in the word of God.

This is one old battle for what is and what is not…accurate in the word.

Study all you can, learn what it is you reject. Then you have a good reason in your mind and heart to reject or not.

 

I take it upon faith and believe yes although there are some mistranslations... it does not alter the word of God.

We can get lost in what isn’t; instead of seeking truth. If you are stumped on this topic;I would ask myself a few basic questions.

 

Do you believe Jesus was born of a virgin?

Do you believe He was and is the Son of God?

Do you believe He died on the cross?

Do you believe He rose from the grave?

Do you believe in the Trinity- The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit.. the three in one… God?

 

If you can believe those basics from the word of God… then know why Jesus died on the cross. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

 

If you believe John 3:16..Salvation is offered to you. You have a choice.

There is no mistranslation in; through His shed blood is eternal life, for you and for me.

 

And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. John 6:35

 

 

God Bless you as you search for truth.

[burning 4 revenge]

I remember at mass yesterday the priest kept telling us to share the good news. I sank down in my pew with a red face. I just get so embarassed sharing the good news when there are people like the OP smashing bibles in everyone's face all the time. I mean, that just gives everyone who is remotely associated with christianity a bad name. It's so embarassing when people get like that.

it's also embarrasing to be crucified by italians

[Love Hurts]

I dunno, otter – maybe it's a Catholic thing? Where you don't proselytize or "Bible thump" because it can lead to a near occasion of sin (pride, etc.), and that it's better to be a model of God's love for others ...

 

looking at it from the latter viewpoint, there's so much inspiration to be found in others – even those who proclaim themselves atheistic or agnostic – because the good you see in them is reflective of the good you know that is God.

 

Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

 

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Revelation 3:5

 

But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 10:33

 

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matthew 10:37

 

; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; Revelation 3:14

 

I will praise the name of God with a song, and will magnify him with thanksgiving. Psalm 69:30

 

For great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised: he also is to be feared above all gods 1 Chronicles 16:25

 

O God, my heart is fixed; I will sing and give praise, even with my glory. Psalm 108:1

 

Thou art my God, and I will praise thee: thou art my God, I will exalt thee. Psalm 118:28

 

For God is the King of all the earth: sing ye praises with understanding. Psalm 47:7

 

In God we boast all the day long, and praise thy name forever. Psalm 44:8

 

In God will I praise his word: in the LORD will I praise his word. Psalm 56:10

 

Thy vows are upon me, O God: I will render praises unto thee. Psalm 56:12

 

My heart is fixed, O God, my heart is fixed: I will sing and give praise. Psalm 57:7

 

I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. Revelation 3:8

 

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Revelation 3:20

[Love Hurts]

Thank you bluetuesday...the bible seems to have many contradictions indeed...

 

For instance, doesn't it say there that all humans are subject to erring? Wouldn't that make the bible, written and published by humans subject to erring as well?

 

See Love Hurts, that's what's wrong with living your life according to a certain church or religious leader or book...you begin to think you know the absolute truth, and the ones that disagree are inherently wrong or bound for hell...

 

This link may help you out.

 

http://forums.crosswalk.com/Who_was_Cain's_wife%3f/m_880572/tm.htm

[Love Hurts]

CardPlay3r,

 

I have to stand on the word and believe.

II Tim. 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

IIPeter1:21 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

 

The soul message of the Bible is centered on Salvation.

Otherwise Christ walking on earth and death on the cross was a waste of

time.

 

God Bless

[Love Hurts]

the concept of reincarnation is another. it was finally officially removed from christian doctrine in about the 6th century and is now considered to be false, yet the gospel writers accepted the idea. two examples of this are jesus asking the disciples "who do people say i am?" (mark 8, v27) and being told he is considered by some to be elijah or john the baptist reborn, or another of the prophets.

 

Matt 16:14-16 15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?” Now, Jesus asked His disciples, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”

What did the apostles answer?

 

Matt 16:13-15

"Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?" 14 So they said, "Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."

 

Now, why did they respond like this, mentioning the prophets?

 

Well, as for Elijah, the answer is easy: They were, AND STILL ARE, waiting for Elijah’s return.

 

Malachi 4:5…

5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

 

Mal 4:6

6 “And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.”

 

That is the very last verse of the Old Testament.

 

Now, God promised that He would send Elijah again.Remember, Elijah was one of two men who never died.

 

Have a look..2 Kings 2:11

11 Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

 

This is why the Jews leave their doors open at Passover, for the return of Elijah. (We will study this another week, for it is one of my questions)

Interestingly, Jesus here didn’t ask who the Pharisees and Sadducees thought that He was; no, He wanted to know who the “people” thought that He was.

 

Matt 16:13-20

2. He enquires what people's sentiments were concerning him: "Who do men say that I am? The Son of man?" "Do they own me for the Messiah?" He asks not, "Who do the scribes and Pharisees say that I am?" They were prejudiced against him, and said that he was a deceiver and in league with Satan;

 

Matt 16:13-20

but, "Who do men say that I am?" He referred to the common people, whom the Pharisees despised. Christ asked this question, not as one that knew not; for if he knows what men think, much more what they say; nor as one desirous to hear his own praises, but to make the disciples solicitous concerning the success of their preaching, by showing that he himself was so.

 

This is just what I am saying: Jesus did not ask the question because He didn’t know the answer, or that He didn’t know their thoughts!

Likewise, He didn’t ask this to hear men’s praises!

No, I think that He asked this, because He wanted to compare their opinions of who He was, to the “REVELATION” that God was about to give them, of who Jesus is!

 

I do not know why the people picked out these other prophets, thinking that Jesus was one of them, except to think that, if Elijah could come back, then perhaps one of them could, also.

 

So, we see who the “people” thought that Jesus was…

Now, how about them? Who did THEY think that Jesus was?

 

Matt 16:15

15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"

Right here, I believe with all my heart that this was a test.I think that Jesus was waiting for the Spirit to move in the heart of one of the disciples!

 

Not to say that Jesus did not know which one; He knows ALL things!But, it seems obvious that the Lord here asked this question very, very deliberately!

 

Don’t you think?

 

Jesus asked the question, “who do YOU day that I am?”

Now, whoever answered this question was…was…. Well, let’s let Jesus answer : What would the person be who knew the answer to this?

 

Matt 16:16-18

16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. NKJV.

 

Jesus said to Peter, “You are blessed, Peter!”He was blessed because no Pharisee told him this. No man, no ordinary man! No, not even Jesus HIMSELF told him this, as he repeated it!

 

16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."Peter called Him the Christ, or Messiah, and the Son of the Living God.

 

Ex 3:6

"I am the God of your father--the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob."

 

Mark 12:26-27

'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'?

27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living.

On account of this revelation the Holy Spirit gave to Peter, it becomes evident that God is going to use Peter as a foundation for His church, and a building block.

 

Matt 16:17-18

17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

Notice the play on words. “Petros”, in the Greek, means “stone”, or “rock”.

 

So, right here Jesus changes Simon’s name to “Peter”!

Matt 16:18

 

18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.”

Acts 2:36-37

 

36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."

"You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." (Matt 16:16)

 

Col 1:15-18

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

 

Who is Jesus?

LORD OF ALL!

SON OF THE LIVING GOD

[burning 4 revenge]

Are you planning on writing the entire Bible?

[CardPlay3r]

I don't know why she's planning, but figures the only answer to my point that the bible was written by humans not by 'god' and she can't possibly know they got it right can be resumed in 'the bible is the word'.

 

"Why is the bible true?" "Because it says so in the bible."

 

Great, let's abandon every bit of logic...ignorance is bliss indeed.

[Love Hurts]

I don't know why she's planning, but figures the only answer to my point that the bible was written by humans not by 'god' and she can't possibly know they got it right can be resumed in 'the bible is the word'.

 

"Why is the bible true?" "Because it says so in the bible."

 

Great, let's abandon every bit of logic...ignorance is bliss indeed.

 

CP3r,

 

I’m sorry I wasn’t of any help in sorting through things.

I don’t have anything more on that topic that I haven’t already posted.

You’re dissatisfied with my response.

 

You might look in the pro and con articles on this question.

(I randomly pulled two links of many on the topic,)

 

http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/n/c/ncs124/gp/bible.htm

 

http://white-fields.org/muslim/accurate.html

 

Or seek out a forum that debates ‘How accurate is the Bible’ in great detail, may be what you need on this seemingly endless topic of discussion.

[Love Hurts]

Are you planning on writing the entire Bible?

lol.. . very funny B4R,

 

 

 

What can I say?.... His words hold value.

[quankanne]

it's also embarrassing to be crucified by italians

 

Italians? Say what?

[blind_otter]

it's also embarrassing to be crucified by italians

 

Italians? Say what?

 

The Romans and what not. pontius pilate. I visited Rome when I was in Italy last year and saw the Basilica of St. Paul. Oh my LORD, it was gorgeous. I just wanted to sit in that quiet beauty all day.

[bluetuesday]

Matt 16:14-16 15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?” etc etc etc

 

love hurts, i did not point to that bible verse to ask you who jesus was. i know who you think he was. i pointed it out to put the case that the disciples and gospel writers believed reincarnation to be a truthful idea - and it is an idea which the church now rejects as heresy. bless you, you seem to have missed this point entirely and gone off on a little journey of your own. you're like the duracell bunny.

[hotgurl]

I think I will never get religion.

 

why do people need to fight about it. Or need to prove thier belief is right and yours is wrong.

 

Why can people just accept each other. And by the way accepting doesn't mean agreeing all the time.

 

Plus why can't people be good just to be good. Why does Jesus have to tell me to love my neighbor. Why can't I just love them for loves sake?

[Love Hurts]

love hurts, i did not point to that bible verse to ask you who jesus was. i know who you think he was. i pointed it out to put the case that the disciples and gospel writers believed reincarnation to be a truthful idea - and it is an idea which the church now rejects as heresy. bless you, you seem to have missed this point entirely and gone off on a little journey of your own. you're like the duracell bunny.

lol... oh but you do a have a way with words..

 

Right Bluetuesday missed your point,

 

Yes I agree they believed in reincarnation. Why did they believe in reincarnation?

 

Malachi 4:5…5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD

Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?" 14 So they said, "Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."

 

Now, why did they respond like this, mentioning the prophets?

Well, as for Elijah, the answer is easy: They were, AND STILL ARE, waiting for Elijah’s return.

 

2 Kings 2:11 Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

 

Could it be that; if Elijah could be taken alive up to heaven and God promised to return him to earth? That its very possible that God could reincarnate a deceased prophet.

 

("Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.")

 

Just my thoughts on the why ... on this one..

 

 

 

God Bless

[blind_otter]

I think I will never get religion.

 

why do people need to fight about it. Or need to prove thier belief is right and yours is wrong.

 

Why can people just accept each other. And by the way accepting doesn't mean agreeing all the time.

 

Plus why can't people be good just to be good. Why does Jesus have to tell me to love my neighbor. Why can't I just love them for loves sake?

 

I think sometimes human beings need to believe in something greater than themselves. Perhaps to alleviate the pain of knowing that we are born and die naked, and alone.

[hotgurl]

I think sometimes human beings need to believe in something greater than themselves. Perhaps to alleviate the pain of knowing that we are born and die naked, and alone.

 

I get that. It just that people get so worked up over it. (start wars etc..)

 

It is foreign to me I guess I don't know. But I have always thought god & the church are two different things.