Author princessa Posted December 5, 2006 Author Share Posted December 5, 2006 princessa, sounds like you feel the need to defend your relationship instead of actually seeking help. Good luck with that. I am seeking help, but telling me that my relationship is WRONG without elaborating for a bit doesn't help much! Besides, I am responsible for my actions and it's only natural to try to justify them. Link to post Share on other sites
SmoochieFace Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Besides, I am responsible for my actions and it's only natural to try to justify them. Perhaps that is part of the problem: you're spending way too much time and effort on justifying unhealthy behaviours. Link to post Share on other sites
Author princessa Posted December 5, 2006 Author Share Posted December 5, 2006 You are both walking away every time it gets tough. You can't calmly talk things out it seems, right? No, we can't calmly talk things out at times unfortunately. Being both blessed with insanely argumentative minds and a drive to always have the last word, it makes things though. You left out RESPECT though. That's a given, isn't it? But you know what? The TRUE test of compatibility is how you both handle things when you DON'T agree. See what I mean? Not such a vague concept after all, is it? It is?? I thought that was communication and not compatibility? To me compatibility is like a checklist of a few must-haves and a few nice-to-haves. Let's say that with logic I can check off about 4/5 on my checklist of must-haves.. That means we're generally compatible.. The fact that we fight over small issues and don't know how to handle arguments doesn't change the compatibility checklist, it only affects the general relationship dynamics.. the communication part.. not who he is as a person and how he is compatible with me.. does that make sense to you?? Link to post Share on other sites
oyster Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 It does not work. I tried and for my own self help, I stopped all communication with my female friend. Link to post Share on other sites
dgiirl Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 I am seeking help, but telling me that my relationship is WRONG without elaborating for a bit doesn't help much! Besides, I am responsible for my actions and it's only natural to try to justify them. True, but to get good help you cannot be defensive. Noone likes to feel attacked for offering help, and if you feel the need to be defensive, most people will not offer sound advice. It makes them feel that they are attacking you (because that's how you see it), instead of trying to help you. Put your defenses down and realize that a lot of the people are truely genuine when they try to offer help. You might not agree with it, but dont be offended by it either. Link to post Share on other sites
lindya Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 No, we can't calmly talk things out at times unfortunately. Being both blessed with insanely argumentative minds and a drive to always have the last word, it makes things though. Maybe the two of you could join a debating club. I'm serious. It would be a common interest, and it would help you to turn disagreements into an artform that results in stimulating discussion rather than fights. Link to post Share on other sites
Author princessa Posted December 5, 2006 Author Share Posted December 5, 2006 True, but to get good help you cannot be defensive. Noone likes to feel attacked for offering help, and if you feel the need to be defensive, most people will not offer sound advice. It makes them feel that they are attacking you (because that's how you see it), instead of trying to help you. Put your defenses down and realize that a lot of the people are truely genuine when they try to offer help. You might not agree with it, but dont be offended by it either. I know that people don't want to give somebody advice when they're defensive. However, if you read my previous posts, you'll notice WHY I reacted the way I did with this particular person. She kept saying that my relationship was fake without elaborating any about it. I justified why I thought it wasn't fake, but it was as if she didn't hear me. Didn't back it up, just kept saying it's fake it's fake, adding adjectives with negative connotations such as "your little honeymoon periods". I asked for advice, yes, but I won't take crap from people covering my situation with ridicule. Anybody is free to disagree with me here, and tell me that my relationship is fake or whatever, and as long as they can rationally explain it and back it up, I'm fine with it and I will respect your opinion, but you're gonna have to respect mine as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Author princessa Posted December 5, 2006 Author Share Posted December 5, 2006 True, but to get good help you cannot be defensive. Noone likes to feel attacked for offering help, and if you feel the need to be defensive, most people will not offer sound advice. It makes them feel that they are attacking you (because that's how you see it), instead of trying to help you. Put your defenses down and realize that a lot of the people are truely genuine when they try to offer help. You might not agree with it, but dont be offended by it either. I know that people don't want to give somebody advice when they're defensive. However, if you read my previous posts, you'll notice WHY I reacted the way I did with this particular person. She kept saying that my relationship was fake without elaborating any about it. I justified why I thought it wasn't fake, but it was as if she didn't hear me. Didn't back it up, just kept saying it's fake it's fake, adding adjectives with negative connotations such as "your little honeymoon periods". I asked for advice, yes, but I won't take crap from people covering my situation with ridicule. Anybody is free to disagree with me here, and tell me that my relationship is fake or whatever, and as long as they can rationally explain it and back it up, I'm fine with it and I will respect your opinion, but you're gonna have to respect mine as well and argue it rationally. Link to post Share on other sites
Author princessa Posted December 5, 2006 Author Share Posted December 5, 2006 Sorry about the double post. Link to post Share on other sites
Author princessa Posted December 5, 2006 Author Share Posted December 5, 2006 Maybe the two of you could join a debating club. I'm serious. It would be a common interest, and it would help you to turn disagreements into an artform that results in stimulating discussion rather than fights. Hahahah!! We've talked about this actually!! Link to post Share on other sites
magichands Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Maybe the two of you could join a debating club. I'm serious. It would be a common interest, and it would help you to turn disagreements into an artform that results in stimulating discussion rather than fights. Did somebody say fight??!! Oh, debating. Right. Okay. Is this like, normal-type debating, or debating with boxing gloves? I like the one-two combination, myself. No, boxing sucks. But sometimes I could just punch the debating adjudicators' lights out. I mean, some of them just don't get it!? Link to post Share on other sites
Author princessa Posted December 5, 2006 Author Share Posted December 5, 2006 Did somebody say fight??!! Oh, debating. Right. Okay. Is this like, normal-type debating, or debating with boxing gloves? I like the one-two combination, myself. No, boxing sucks. But sometimes I could just punch the debating adjudicators' lights out. I mean, some of them just don't get it!? GAaaahh!! Don't make me make YOU my victim!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Do any of you KNOW any people who have been in on and off relationships and fought non-stop at the beginning for at least a year and ended up pulling it off and calming down and finally having a quiet and loving relationship?? IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE?!?!?!? I've been in an on/off relationship which has evolved into a stable LTR. We broke up often mainly due to my emotional issues. Both he and I got counseling. I chose to remain in long term therapy while he did a 3 month long anger management program. Our relationship has progressed to a more positive plateau because we both done an extensive amount of emotional work. Link to post Share on other sites
magichands Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 We've talked about this actually!! Excellent! Looks like you're getting the idea. Or is this the bit before the punch-up? Link to post Share on other sites
Author princessa Posted December 5, 2006 Author Share Posted December 5, 2006 I've been in an on/off relationship which has evolved into a stable LTR. We broke up often mainly due to my emotional issues. Both he and I got counseling. I chose to remain in long term therapy while he did a 3 month long anger management program. Our relationship has progressed to a more positive plateau because we both done an extensive amount of emotional work. Nice to hear Link to post Share on other sites
Author princessa Posted December 5, 2006 Author Share Posted December 5, 2006 Excellent! Looks like you're getting the idea. Or is this the bit before the punch-up? Haha, no this was one of the "ON" moments where we'd sit and laugh about how ridiculous our fights get....... Yeah.. not really funny Link to post Share on other sites
dgiirl Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 I know that people don't want to give somebody advice when they're defensive. However, if you read my previous posts, you'll notice WHY I reacted the way I did with this particular person. She kept saying that my relationship was fake without elaborating any about it. I justified why I thought it wasn't fake, but it was as if she didn't hear me. Didn't back it up, just kept saying it's fake it's fake, adding adjectives with negative connotations such as "your little honeymoon periods". I asked for advice, yes, but I won't take crap from people covering my situation with ridicule. Anybody is free to disagree with me here, and tell me that my relationship is fake or whatever, and as long as they can rationally explain it and back it up, I'm fine with it and I will respect your opinion, but you're gonna have to respect mine as well and argue it rationally. You might not have agreed with the words she chose, but she gave you some good insight into why things seem so good in the beginning. All relationships start off in a honeymoon phase. During this time, all relationships are peachy keen, nothing can go wrong. However, it's not a solid foundation to judge a relationship. This is why you guys keep going in a cycle. You keep focusing on how things are in the honeymoon phase and keep coming back to each other. Yet, when the chemistry wears off, there's nothing to your relationship to keep you together. The only way to have a relationship with each other is to remain in the honeymoon phase, which means you have to breakup to reach that point again. To me, breaking up with someone is the last card that should ever be dealt. And when you use it so callously and repeatedly, it's like holding the other person hostage. They fear speaking their minds because you might leave them. It's a pretty cruel thing to do to another person. Worse is when you both use it repeatedly that it loses it's effect and you no longer know when the real end of the relationship is. And it doesnt really signify a mature relationship. A mature relationship is when you both acknowledge you have some problems, but you're both committed to working it out, and you stay, not leave. If you reach the point where you have to leave, that's when you really should leave. Otherwise, you're just playing games, and games has no place in a mature loving long term relationship. Either you both get real with one another and go into counselling, or you leave each other alone to find happiness elsewhere. Link to post Share on other sites
norajane Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 IThat means we're generally compatible.. The fact that we fight over small issues and don't know how to handle arguments doesn't change the compatibility checklist, it only affects the general relationship dynamics.. the communication part.. not who he is as a person and how he is compatible with me.. does that make sense to you?? That you can't handle disagreements in a mature, respectful way can point to either compatibility or communication issues, or both. It is who you are if you get upset about little things that he does that bother you. It is who he is if he does those things and they annoy you. It is who you both are if you see things completely differently - he thinks you killed his sex drive because you don't have orgasms, and you think he's not making much effort to turn you on. The topics of disagreement point to compatibility. You can learn to disagree in a more productive manner (communication), but if the points of disagreement remain (compatibility), then it's not going to work out. Link to post Share on other sites
Author princessa Posted December 5, 2006 Author Share Posted December 5, 2006 You keep focusing on how things are in the honeymoon phase and keep coming back to each other. Yet, when the chemistry wears off, there's nothing to your relationship to keep you together. This is where I said I disagreed with her (and you), and asked to elaborate on WHY she made this assumption about me and WHAT criteria she uses to determine what makes the relationship real. To me, breaking up with someone is the last card that should ever be dealt. And when you use it so callously and repeatedly, it's like holding the other person hostage. They fear speaking their minds because you might leave them. It's a pretty cruel thing to do to another person. Worse is when you both use it repeatedly that it loses it's effect and you no longer know when the real end of the relationship is. And it doesnt really signify a mature relationship. A mature relationship is when you both acknowledge you have some problems, but you're both committed to working it out, and you stay, not leave. If you reach the point where you have to leave, that's when you really should leave. Otherwise, you're just playing games, and games has no place in a mature loving long term relationship. Either you both get real with one another and go into counselling, or you leave each other alone to find happiness elsewhere. Well I agree that you cannot live in fear that the other person will leave you. Thing is, we've had so many fights and breakups in the past that I think by now neither of us believes that we're gonna leave after a given fight. So that's one issue that I don't have to deal with anymore and it kinda tells me that yes indeed we're both committed to talk things out in the end. But the fights and the 3-4 day anger period before we get to the talking is still there. Which brings us back to the question... is staying really the right thing to do? Link to post Share on other sites
BareGoddess Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Thanks, dgi. You obviously "get" what I was saying. Princess, is taking my words and/or tone or something and twisting them. What's so wrong with saying "little honeymoon periods." That's exactly what they ARE! I've experienced that. Anyway, you hit the nail on the head. That's pretty much the only time those two WILL get along in my opinion. It's a never-ending cycle usually. And Princess, I can see that you ARE argumentative. But the fact that HE is too, makes you both incompatible. I'm not sure I'm being clear enough with you though since you seem to only want to argue with me so I'll just wish you good luck and hope you don't have to learn the hard way regarding this kind of thing. I'm done here. Link to post Share on other sites
Author princessa Posted December 5, 2006 Author Share Posted December 5, 2006 That you can't handle disagreements in a mature, respectful way can point to either compatibility or communication issues, or both. It is who you are if you get upset about little things that he does that bother you. It is who he is if he does those things and they annoy you. It is who you both are if you see things completely differently - he thinks you killed his sex drive because you don't have orgasms, and you think he's not making much effort to turn you on. The topics of disagreement point to compatibility. You can learn to disagree in a more productive manner (communication), but if the points of disagreement remain (compatibility), then it's not going to work out. Hehe Nora Jane, you got me confused with the new Christmas avatar for a bit!! What do you mean by "but if the points of disagreement remain"?? Like after both of us have understood where the other person is coming from, if we still think they're wrong for thinking that way?? This is seriously hard for me to grasp. Link to post Share on other sites
Author princessa Posted December 5, 2006 Author Share Posted December 5, 2006 ... Alright we'll leave it at that, thanks for dropping by Link to post Share on other sites
dgiirl Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 This is where I said I disagreed with her (and you), and asked to elaborate on WHY she made this assumption about me and WHAT criteria she uses to determine what makes the relationship real. I dont quite understand why you are so offended and threatend by this comment. It might give you some insight into your relationship if you gave it a little thought. Anyways, you mentioned that your parents constantly fought. Is this a relationship role model you strive to have in your own life or are you wishing something different for yourself? Link to post Share on other sites
norajane Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Hehe Nora Jane, you got me confused with the new Christmas avatar for a bit!! What do you mean by "but if the points of disagreement remain"?? Like after both of us have understood where the other person is coming from, if we still think they're wrong for thinking that way?? This is seriously hard for me to grasp. Yes, that's pretty much what I mean. Take religion as an example. If you disagreed about religion, say you are very religious and take God seriously, and he's not religious at all and doesn't believe in God. You can learn to argue effectively and work out a compromise about going to church and specific religious practices (communication). But if you still believe he's going to burn in hell if he doesn't believe in God and that you are both sinning every time you use a condom, then that's a compatibility issue. If he still thinks you're foolish to believe the world was created in 7 days and resents you for giving money to the church, that's a compatibility issue. You both think the other is wrong, and you can't amicably agree to disagree and not bring it up anymore. You may have communicated and understand each other, but it doesn't make any difference in the end, because you will always be at odds about the issue and it will continue to affect your relationship. Link to post Share on other sites
BareGoddess Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Alright we'll leave it at that, thanks for dropping by Ok, you're welcome. Sorry I was of no help. Link to post Share on other sites
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