Where do you think life came from?

[Fun2BMe]

I believe that Creation narrative in Genesis is true and that evidence for Creation is far stronger than that for evolution.

 

You are joking right?

 

Why does it have to be one or the other and not evolution as something created by God?

[a4a]

Why does it have to be one or the other and not evolution as something created by God?

 

Your speaking about intelligent design.

 

which there could be infinite theories for that..... so hang up your bible in that case and just make up your own theory. One is as good as another.

 

Thus the Flying Spaghetti Monster....... all hail the Noodly Appendaged One!!

 

I am more inclined to believe in the Giant Tea Bag theory (the beverage, not the sexual act)

[amaysngrace]

.

I am more inclined to believe in the Giant Tea Bag theory (the beverage, not the sexual act)

 

 

Entertaining as always a4a thanks for that!

 

I think God made the earth and it gets me by. Many people get by without the belief in a superior Being and that's fine, same as it's fine that others opt to believe.

 

It's a matter of opinion.

[konfused]

If building blocks are all you need, then if we can create a corpse like body equivelent to what we understand to be 'dead' which is undeniably made of building blocks, that would answer your question as to where life comes from? (From what you say I take it that you mean building blocks to be the material of organic matter of animals as opposed to inorganic like a chair or rock.) Aside from a soul which you don't believe in and many argue animals don't possess anyways, what does life mean to you? I would like to know.

 

Life is the ability to replicate oneself.

 

Also love, humor, development of male and female (sexuality), appreciation of beauty, the conscience, etc. are difficult or impossible for evolution to explain.

Unfortunately, most evolutionists know almost nothin about the evidences for Creation.

 

Difficult or impossible. God might exist or god does exist. Tell that to your pastor. See what he thinks about that statement. Nobody said evolution was easy. In fact, most struggle in its grasp and all succomb to it in the end.

 

Please enlighten us with this evidence.

[alphamale]

Please enlighten us with this evidence.

i await the "evidence" with much glee

[Fun2BMe]

Life is the ability to replicate oneself.

 

So what was your point about the whole 1920's experiment where amino acids were made? Did they replicate themselves? I was saying, what if we made more than amino acids, but the equivelent of a dead corpse in the lab FROM SCRATCH (not talkinb about taking pre-existing organic materials like an embryo or egg etc.) But the only 'problem' was that it was lifeless as in not able to duplicate itself. So again, what was the point about the whole experiment you stated? I think I missed the point!!

[magichands]

Replicate?? One of me is already one too many.

[Fun2BMe]

Replicate?? One of me is already one too many.

 

I'll take in one of you if there are too many and one ends up at the people pound! But I think he means to reproduce and not a carbon copy double like we had done with that lamb what's its name.

[magichands]

Dolly. I wish I had a dolly.

[milvushina]

So what was your point about the whole 1920's experiment where amino acids were made? Did they replicate themselves? I was saying, what if we made more than amino acids, but the equivelent of a dead corpse in the lab FROM SCRATCH (not talkinb about taking pre-existing organic materials like an embryo or egg etc.) But the only 'problem' was that it was lifeless as in not able to duplicate itself. So again, what was the point about the whole experiment you stated? I think I missed the point!!

 

I just can't stop myself from tidying up the description of this experiment a little. It's fascinated me since I was about 12. If that is boring just skip to the point.

 

This famous experiment is the Miller-Urey experiment and it was done in the 1950's, not 1920's. The inorganic molecules the experiment started with were in the form of gases that make a reducing atmosphere. A reducing atmosphere just means it has little or no free oxygen (O2, oxygen gas).

This is because earth's early atmosphere didn't have much oxygen. There weren't any life forms to breath it or make it (plants).

 

Then, the gases, methane, water vapor, ammonia, etc. were bombarded not with normal sunlight but energy in the form of electricity. Another characteristic of earth's early atmosphere was severe lightning storms.

 

After 1 week, about 2 percent of the carbon present in the form of methane gas had been converted to these amino acids related to living organisms.

 

The Point:

This proved that if you replicated the conditions of the early Earth, it was very easy for inorganic molecules to convert to organic molecules.

In the 60's, another similar experiment was conducted that produced amino acids as well as the nucleotide adenine which is one of the 4 molecules that compose DNA and RNA.

Amino acids and a lone nucleotide can't produce offspring. But this experiement showed that organic molecules can come from inorganic molecules. And if enough organic molecules are in the mix, the result is a chemical reaction called life.

[magichands]

Great job there, milvushina!

 

Wikipedia generally does a good job on this stuff also.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller-Urey_experiment

[Fun2BMe]

But this experiement showed that organic molecules can come from inorganic molecules. And if enough organic molecules are in the mix, the result is a chemical reaction called life.

 

Yes I've read of this but not fully studied it, however my original point that just like evolution, now I can add that this experiment is extremely fragile in that it requires the conditions to be how they used to be. And going back in time, when the earth was in the condition you described, and when organic matter was converting to inorganic and boom life appeared, it makes me wonder if a creative intelligence didn't design these 'experiments.' I mean even the traffic lights at a busy intersection require a lot of research and then programming to time them properly, let alone something so complex as amino acids which later turn to animals and so on. I'm just wondering still if life was spontaneous and all of these things appeared out of the blue, so complexly and yet neatly programmed, or did a being design them which keeps making the most sense except when I start to completely doubt that as well.

[a4a]

Then, the gases, methane, water vapor, ammonia, etc. were bombarded not with normal sunlight but energy in the form of electricity. Another characteristic of earth's early atmosphere was severe lightning storms.

 

.

 

 

So you just gave me my own intelligent design theory...... Thanky very mucho.

 

methane- farts, from poo as well but sticking with this source.

water vapor- sweat

ammonia- mixed with water vapor perhaps makes urine.

 

So I would say the origin of life is a Universal Cosmic Porta John........

the electricity created from the persistant rubbing of toilet paper on Uranus?

[magichands]

I find this bit particularly interesting (from the Wikipedia reference above).

During recent years, studies have been made of the amino acid composition of the products of "old" areas in "old" genes, defined as those that are found to be common to organisms from several widely separated species, assumed to share only the last universal ancestor (LUA) of all extant species. These studies found that the products of these areas are enriched in those amino acids that are also most readily produced in the Miller-Urey experiment. This suggests that the original genetic code was based on a smaller number of amino acids -- only those available in prebiotic nature -- than the current one (Brooks et al. 2002).

It's pretty clear that the genetic code - which is pretty much shared amongst all living organisms - must have "evolved" too. Studying the evolution of the genetic code could be an interesting way to get some more teeth into the origin of life question, but I can't see us taking any better than wild guesses for decades and perhaps centuries to come.

[Fun2BMe]

I mean we can trace this type of 'life' back even a step further as far as documenting where the inorganic matter that the organic was made from came from. So we trace it ALL THE WAY BACK and can recreate it. Next question is, so where did it come from, the building blocks that make life? While still not knowing for certain, at least not today if God put the breath of life in these organic beings or they spontaneously come to life, and even if they spontaneously do, who designed them to do so.

[a4a]

Yes I've read of this but not fully studied it, however my original point that just like evolution, now I can add that this experiment is extremely fragile in that it requires the conditions to be how they used to be. And going back in time, when the earth was in the condition you described, and when organic matter was converting to inorganic and boom life appeared, it makes me wonder if a creative intelligence didn't design these 'experiments.' I mean even the traffic lights at a busy intersection require a lot of research and then programming to time them properly, let alone something so complex as amino acids which later turn to animals and so on. I'm just wondering still if life was spontaneous and all of these things appeared out of the blue, so complexly and yet neatly programmed, or did a being design them which keeps making the most sense except when I start to completely doubt that as well.

 

 

Flaw: thinking that anything or being with intelligence would design a Platypus.

 

Life did not start under one kind of condition on earth..... the conditions would have varied as much as the weather does... polar caps may have had more water vapor, less sun,...... so you have millions and gagazillions of reactions all over the planets surface, not under just one rock in what is now called Peoria IL. So diversity blossoms....with ease.

[a4a]

I mean we can trace this type of 'life' back even a step further as far as documenting where the inorganic matter that the organic was made from came from. So we trace it ALL THE WAY BACK and can recreate it. Next question is, so where did it come from, the building blocks that make life? While still not knowing for certain, at least not today if God put the breath of life in these organic beings or they spontaneously come to life, and even if they spontaneously do, who designed them to do so.

 

Nobody knows but I know I did not come from some dudes rib; named Adam.

 

Could be we are actually all in the Matrix. None of this is real, just energy....or maybe nothingness..............

[milvushina]

Yeah of course Wikipedia would....duh shoulda just linked oh well

 

Yes I've read of this but not fully studied it, however my original point that just like evolution, now I can add that this experiment is extremely fragile in that it requires the conditions to be how they used to be. And going back in time, when the earth was in the condition you described, and when organic matter was converting to inorganic and boom life appeared, it makes me wonder if a creative intelligence didn't design these 'experiments.' I mean even the traffic lights at a busy intersection require a lot of research and then programming to time them properly, let alone something so complex as amino acids which later turn to animals and so on. I'm just wondering still if life was spontaneous and all of these things appeared out of the blue, so complexly and yet neatly programmed, or did a being design them which keeps making the most sense except when I start to completely doubt that as well.

 

But since you are trying to reproduce how life began, it only makes sense that you would reproduce when it began. We have pretty good evidence from the geological record of when there wasn't life, when there was, and what the atmosphere of the planet was like at these times.

 

You were astute to compare this to evolution and not get it confused with evolution. Evolution only deals with changes in living organisms, not how life began. But the problem with comparing things we know are designed, or man-made, is that you already know they are designed. I always looked at it this way: when the universe began with the big bang, it was a lot of random molecules flying around. Go forward in time, and all these molecules were bound to end up somewhere and make up something. All configurations were equally unlikely, probably statiscally impossible. And yet there was a 100 percent chance that one of them had would occur. Make sense? So we look around now and say how unlikely it is that things would be organized this way. Or, we say, well, things are just organized in one of many possible but unlikely ways.

[magichands]

Flaw: thinking that anything or being with intelligence would design a Platypus.

Definitely the cutest animal on the planet. The platypusses.

 

Idolised by many.

 

http://pl.atyp.us/images/snowplat_l.jpg

[alphamale]

Nobody knows but I know I did not come from some dudes rib; named Adam.

no A4a, you were cloned from a hair growing out of my nutsack

[magichands]

Yeah of course Wikipedia would....duh shoulda just linked oh well

Your version was much less boring.

[Fun2BMe]

Flaw: thinking that anything or being with intelligence would design a Platypus.

 

Life did not start under one kind of condition on earth..... the conditions would have varied as much as the weather does... polar caps may have had more water vapor, less sun,...... so you have millions and gagazillions of reactions all over the planets surface, not under just one rock in what is now called Peoria IL. So diversity blossoms....with ease.

 

Without the Platypuses of the world, how can you appreciate any of its other more beautiful creations in comparison? Anyways, even a platypus has its function and place in the whole ecosystem. Yes, the conditions would have been too varied to lets say recreate in a lab, but even if we did, was their a being that has made it possible to for such things to be created, who has designed it to happen? Goes back to my earlier post that even a simple wedding band requires an 'intelligent being' to make, much less the complex conditions required to make evolution, life and the earth.

[magichands]

no A4a, you were cloned from a hair growing out of my nutsack

That explains the avatar. Not that I judge people on their looks...it's the goddamn disposition!!

[milvushina]

Goes back to my earlier post that even a simple wedding band requires an 'intelligent being' to make, much less the complex conditions required to make evolution, life and the earth.

 

That assumes that you start with the purpose of making a wedding band, though.

 

But things that happen randomly can have complex results, and when you look only at the results, give the illusion of having been intelligently designed.

 

Especially to humans, since we're supposed to try and make sense out of things, explain what we see, give it a purpose etc.

[Fun2BMe]

That assumes that you start with the purpose of making a wedding band, though.

 

But things that happen randomly can have complex results, and when you look only at the results, give the illusion of having been intelligently designed.

 

Especially to humans, since we're supposed to try and make sense out of things, explain what we see, give it a purpose etc.

 

Yes, the purpose of making a wedding band and so? Just like the purpose of inorganic matter being created seems to be with the purpose to make life right? And in the bigger scheme of things, in a way seems geared towards the end product of making humans. In fact the entire creation of the universe and the conditions seem planned out with the intent to make it the best place for humans on earth to live in. One flaw or error or missing ingredient and none of it would come to be, from the exact position of the planets to the exact conditions of the weather and everything else. It seems too complex and full of design to happen out of the blue when a something as simple as a ring requires someone to make it.