Where do you think life came from?

[Fun2BMe]

my idea on religion is its good for the individual but very bad for the group. so many have suffered in the name of religion. its just one more thing that divides the human race up.

 

Keep in mind that religion in and of itself is not divisive. It unites people and they keep moral standards. It is the leaders in the lands they live in who choose to use religion as an excuse to declare war. The majority of Slams are peaceful yet some evil people use religion as an excuse to fight the West for other reasons under the veil of religion. If they hijack religion for their justifications it is sad how so many people do not see this big difference. Go to any house of worship and you will see how illogical it is to state that what they are worshipping has anything to do with killing others for their religion, an excuse used by evil people with many falling for it.

[Fun2BMe]

Well, my point was that everyone has faith in some set of ideas that they will cling to, even if presented with rational arguments to the contrary. And if that set of ideas orders your life, then it becomes your religion.

 

If it was a set of moral principles then I'd say that would be a pretty good thing, even if it happened to exclude God.

 

But it could be something neutral or bad. For example, if you were anorexic, all the trappings of that could become your religion. (Not a perfect example, b/c this is an illness, too, obviously.) Or it could be that the democratic party is your religion. You might rather die than vote republican. Maybe you would be ashamed to show your face. You would feel like a leper. Do you get what I mean?

 

 

You are still applying 'religion' to activities that have nothing to do with the religious topics being discussed here. If someone dies for the Republican cause, and calls it their religion, I don't understand how that answers any of the questions under discussion such as why does the universe exist. It only says that they defined their own singular life as dependent upon their casting a vote for the Republican party but it doesn not answer the bigger questions of the universe, so again you are focussing on a different application of the word religion that has nothing to do with this thread. If I have a certain belief about the universe, sure I will still take others views into account to help shape and mold my beliefs as I am currently doing right now as an example.

[alphamale]

Keep in mind that religion in and of itself is not divisive. It unites people and they keep moral standards.

See, religion can never be practiced the way it was intended cause humans are inherently imperfect. So then....religion becomes imperfect. Yes, all religions say to be peacefull and respect everyone but this never happens in the real world.

 

BTW, good thread F2BM

[magichands]

Go to any house of worship and

There's only one person's address that I'm interested in.

[Fun2BMe]

See, religion can never be practiced the way it was intended cause humans are inherently imperfect. So then....religion becomes imperfect. Yes, all religions say to be peacefull and respect everyone but this never happens in the real world.

 

BTW, good thread F2BM

 

Well, keep in mind that if there are billions of religious people, there are a very very small handful of people who use it as an excuse to declare war and kill in the name of it. You can do A LOT of good but like in all areas of life, you do one bad thing and it outweighs all the good. Billions of people put in billions of hours worth of prayer, giving, volunteering and providing comfort in the name of religion, yet a few evil people will cause the killings of many in the name of it and the whole concept is suddenly "devisive" and nonpeaceful. That's something to consider...and hey glad you're enjoying the thread!

[Fun2BMe]

There's only one person's address that I'm interested in.

 

Do you have a space rocket?

[Storyrider]

Sorry if I seemed to be taking the thread off topic. I didn't mean to. I just wanted those on the thread who consider themselves to be totally rational, science-based, and who claim to have no religion to consider they might be worshipping at the alter of something without realizing it.

 

It is a good thread.

[Fun2BMe]

Sorry if I seemed to be taking the thread off topic. I didn't mean to. I just wanted those on the thread who consider themselves to be totally rational, science-based, and who claim to have no religion to consider they might be worshipping at the alter of something without realizing it.

 

It is a good thread.

 

Don't get me wrong, it's not about getting off topic.I just don't think the comparisons you are making add up, but I may be wrong. Religion as far as using its beliefs to answer the 'big' questions about why do we exist, where did we come from and what is the meaning is one thing, but all the rest has no relevence just because by let's say coincidence the same word religion can apply to something not related to any of those questions, such as 'religiously voting Republican' or 'religiously eating Taco Bell.' If someone keenly follows something, yes the word 'religion' can be applied to it, but it doesn't mean they are worshipping God without knowing it, or they are using that activity to definte the purpose of the universe without realizing it, whereas let's say a scientist who studies evolution can study it religiously but they may in no way use the science they study to answer any of the 'big' questions therefore what you can use the word 'religiously' as an adjective to describe what they do - devotedly study something - doesn't equate to them using those findings to answer any of the 'big' questions. Hope that makes some sense!

[Storyrider]

I guess I interpret Commandment 1, no other gods besides the big G., rather broadly. You seem to think I'm making a linguistic error. I think our disagreement is theological. I am saying that attempting to replace God with science is idol worship. Perhaps we simply disagree about that. And that's OK.

[Fun2BMe]

I guess I interpret Commandment 1, no other gods besides the big G., rather broadly. You seem to think I'm making a linguistic error. I think our disagreement is theological. I am saying that attempting to replace God with science is idol worship. Perhaps we simply disagree about that. And that's OK.

 

But I don't think anybody worships science. Many think God doesn't exist because of science, whether because they can't use science to prove God or because some of their scientific findings such as evolution makes them lose their faith in God but I have never heard of anyone who worships science as far as thinking it is a Deity and sacred, attributing God characters to it. Science can explain how the universe and life evolve but not where it came from which is something associated to God. Science does not know. It only explains how the things that God created work. So it wouldn't make sense anyways for someone to worship the mechanics of the universe called science.

[Green]

I think what storyrider is trying to get across is that they exhibit the exact same irationalities as some one in religion and some times base their own activities on a faith based logic. F2BMe You blame the use of religion being used for violence on only a few people but often it is the result of many people. For instance the radical religiouse sect in the midle east is not only a few people I'm not implying this makes up the majority of Islam but they're are definetly a growing number of these extremist who believe killing their enemies will get them into heaven and that they are doing gods work look at the crusades for instance. In the end we may never know how were life came from science doesnt even have any way of testing the question of why we all exist instead of just great nothing ness, and religion has the answers if you choose to believe it. One way or another we'll all get to experience death and put an end to that mystery I just hope I still get the experience of conciousness after it.

[Fun2BMe]

I think what storyrider is trying to get across is that they exhibit the exact same irationalities as some one in religion and some times base their own activities on a faith based logic.

So the majority of the earth's population throughout history is irational? I would think the opposite is true, that it is only logical that there is a higher being and that those who think everthing came to be out of the blue are illogical. So if that's what he meant then thanks for at least clearing it up.

 

 

F2BMe You blame the use of religion being used for violence on only a few people but often it is the result of many people.

 

If you read my post again you will see that I wrote a few people are to blame for causing the results of the killings and violence commited on many people. Even if its an army of 100,000 doing the killing, it is commanded to them to do so based on one or a few people's decisions, sometimes using religion and the soldiers have no option but to follow commands. It has nothing to do with the religion itself. Let's say hypothetically that we had solid proof evidence of religion being true, but even more people were killed by a few people's decision based on religion, you'd still say it was bad because people die for it. I think we have to be above people with bad intentions who feel threatened by religion or whatever their reasons are to try to kill people of a particular faith.

 

In the end we may never know how were life came from science doesnt even have any way of testing the question of why we all exist instead of just great nothing ness, and religion has the answers if you choose to believe it. One way or another we'll all get to experience death and put an end to that mystery I just hope I still get the experience of conciousness after it.

Yes, I completely agree with what you are saying. Some of us do get a taste of what is to come by having near death experiences, visions and so on. At the end of the day I don't think I'll be able to 100% there is nothing, just like I won't be able to believe 100% there is. But because of my faith I lean more towards there is something to account for everything. It seems illogical to believe otherwise.

[Rooster_DAR]

No, sometimes a vegetarian diet is just a vegetarian diet. I was responding more to Alpha who seems to claim to have no religion. My point is that everyone worships something. If they don't choose God to put on the highest pedestal, they have put something else there, maybe without realizing it. I just don't believe that spot is really ever empty. People who claim it is may be putting themselves there.

 

This was exactly my point, man possibly created god and religion to fill up this so called gap. I also believe that it's entirely natural to want to be spiritually connect to something, but I am convinced that God and the bible most people grew up on is false.

 

In response to Fun2Bme's earlier post, you talked about humans being disparate in the early civilizations, yes they all seem to form their on gods and religions, but not all of the did. I believe the expansion of the human brain is responsible for this and was in place before our ancestors left africa. Fundamentally it's plausable to believe that the need for believing in something larger than ourselves has been around since the dawn of human intelligence.

 

True, we can only speculate on these theory's, but science has some evidence to suggest this was the case. I won't go into the evidence, but the fossil records show the distinctions be neandrethal and more advanced hominits had very different burial habits, and were pretty sure the neandrathal did not have the intelligence that other hominits did. This possibly suggests that neandrathal didn't give a damn whether there was any god, and probably weren't very spiritual.

 

I don't know, my brain in hurting cause I'm thinking to much. I'm going to watch some garbage television.

 

Cya!

[konfused]

True, we can only speculate on these theory's, but science has some evidence to suggest this was the case. I won't go into the evidence, but the fossil records show the distinctions be neandrethal and more advanced hominits had very different burial habits, and were pretty sure the neandrathal did not have the intelligence that other hominits did. This possibly suggests that neandrathal didn't give a damn whether there was any god, and probably weren't very spiritual.

 

 

There have been actual Neanderthal burial sites discovered complete with artifacts. This must suggest something about their spirituality. Unless of course, it was merely an advantageous thing to do. Even then, why place the artifacts there. It says to me that humans don't have a monopoly on religious concepts. The afterlife, for example. Either we don't have it or its shared with all other organisms.

 

It's fine to think of God as a cosmic force in the Einsteinian sense of God, but to look at evolution, whether the product of God or not, and think it's a blissful situation is impossible. Imagine an all-loving God who set evolution in motion or an all powerful God who's not responsible but presently allowing it to happen.

 

I've always said that it's easy for God to be your friend when you're at the top of the food chain.

[Rooster_DAR]

There have been actual Neanderthal burial sites discovered complete with artifacts

 

Actually, from what I learned this is not true. I will do some digging around in case I missed something.

 

I've always said that it's easy for God to be your friend when you're at the top of the food chain.

 

LOL

[Storyrider]

So if that's what he meant then thanks for at least clearing it up.

 

Lol, F2BMe. I am a girl! You gave me advice on my "too poor to eat out" thread. (great advice btw that I did not implement well.)

 

Below is a quote from a speech Michael Chrichton gave to the Commonwealth Club in San Fransisco, Sept 15, 2003. It gives an example of what I mean about how science can become a religion.

 

Today, one of the most powerful religions in the Western World is environmentalism. Environmentalism seems to be the religion of choice for urban atheists. Why do I say it's a religion? Well, just look at the beliefs. If you look carefully, you see that environmentalism is in fact a perfect 21st century remapping of traditional Judeo-Christian beliefs and myths.

There's an initial Eden, a paradise, a state of grace and unity with nature, there's a fall from grace into a state of pollution as a result of eating from the tree of knowledge, and as a result of our actions there is a judgment day coming for us all. We are all energy sinners, doomed to die, unless we seek salvation, which is now called sustainability. Sustainability is salvation in the church of the environment. Just as organic food is its communion, that pesticide-free wafer that the right people with the right beliefs, imbibe.

[magichands]

Below is a quote from a speech Michael Chrichton gave to the Commonwealth Club in San Fransisco, Sept 15, 2003.

 

Just as organic food is its communion, that pesticide-free wafer that the right people with the right beliefs, imbibe.

And not everything is as it seems.

 

Pesticide use: It is a common misconsception that organic agriculture does not use pesticides. Some pesticides used on organic farms contain the heavy metal copper, which can lead to copper accumulation in the soil. Other pesticides that are approved for use by organic producers include ryania, sabadilla, and rotenone.

 

Toxicity of "organic pesticides": Conventional pesticides must be thoroughly studied before they can be placed on the market. However, such studies are not required for the pesticides used in organic agriculture. For example, the botanical pesticide Sabadilla is highly toxic to honeybees, and according to the California Department of Environmental Protection its mammalian toxicology has not been fully studied.

 

John Kent, Lecturer in Agricultural Protection, from the School of Agriculture at Charles Sturt University in Australia supports the idea that organically grown food is not as sustainable, arguing that while organically grown food certainly has its place in today's free market, that if all farmers decided to farm in such a way, "we would soon find ourselves in a grave situation."

But that's probably a bit off-topic. Religion is ambiguous. Life is ambiguous. I am ambiguous.

[alphamale]

But that's probably a bit off-topic. Religion is ambiguous. Life is ambiguous. I am ambiguous.

the Religious Non-Progressives are ambiguous also...

[burning 4 revenge]

the Religious Non-Progressives are ambiguous also...

I dont think that pastor Ted Haggard was so much gay as he was possesed by Satan